Prince Constantijn and Princess Laurentien, News & Events Part 4 (January 2018 - )

[Somebody]

That's most likely indeed part of the story. It has clearly become somewhat of a battle between the ministry and Laurentien's foundation... Not a healthy situation for a member of the royal house.

This part by the reporter, however, indicates that it is not just a few disgruntled civil servants:

No one in The Hague doubts the good intentions of the princess. But there have been rumors for some time that Laurentien made it clear when she disagreed with something. Even in the recent caretaker cabinet this led to considerable irritation.

The foundation openly going on the attack both this time and when their method was challenged does show an assertive (bordering on aggressive) know-it-all attitude.

 

[Marengo]

Considering the absolute mess the [previous] government, ministery, high ranking civil servants and ministers have made of this particular dossier I imagine many people will be thankful the Princess actually did get angry and did disagree with the appaling, slow and cold hearted way the ministery has tried to solve this dossier. As said: none of those at the ministery have taken any responsibility at all. They have driven people into suicide, have had people losing their homes and jobs, children taken out of custudy of their own parents.... but somehow nobody even gets repirmanded. Nobody is responsible. We can only wish the civil servants would be as dedicated to fixing what the ministery did wrong as they are in vilifying the reputation of the Princess - anonimously.

But you are right of course, for a normal foundation with a normal CEO challenging the ministery is perhaps less problematic. For Laurentien -whose actions fall under the responsibility of the prime minister- it is a different question. It is the government going against the government, which is rather unorthodox. Though we have seen worse cases lately: the leader of the VVD party going against government policies while being a member of the same government as minister of Justice.

For what it is worth: Gert-Jan Segers, former leader of the Christian Union party and now involved with Laurentien’s foundation, says that the comments are “misplaced”. “This doesn’t do justice to her, it is not how we know her or how she works. We are disappointed in anonymous civil servants, who are more occupied with spreading slanderous accusations than they are working on the restoration of justice to the [victims].”

Ambtenaren melden grensoverschrijdend gedrag van prinses Laurentien

Het ministerie schrijft in een reactie dat "de emoties wel eens zijn opgelopen" en dat daar verschillende meldingen over zijn gedaan.

nos.nl

 

[Alisa]

Why is the Princess so heavily involved in this political issue? Perhaps this is exactly why royals shouldn't be meddling in politics to begin with.

 

[Somebody]

More information in a NOS-article: the oral reports are related to name calling, not tolerating contradiction, raised voices, slamming doors and emotional responses, including tears (by the princess).

Hoe de methode-Laurentien de kwestie-Laurentien werd: onbehagen over de prinses

De schoonzus van koning Willem-Alexander probeert de toeslagenouders te helpen, maar de samenwerking met Financiën verloopt soms moeizaam.

nos.nl

 

[Marengo]

I suppose that this could be explained as agressive by thos who were at the receiving end. But his surely is not the complete story. Why did the princess behave in such a way? How did the civil servants actually stand in the way of a sollution? Did she too walk against a wall of incompetance, rigidity, bureaucracy, and civil servants more commited to save the reputation of the ministery than to solving this problem.

Although I can believe she may have misbehaved this account is far too one sided to be credible as the whole story. One simply doesn't go into a meeting with slamming doors, insults and tears.

They seem to be stuck in their own web of bureaucracy so I salute any attempt to get the machine moving to find some form of compensation within the lifetimes of the victims.

The way this has been leaked is downright scandalous and a clear attempt at character assassination of somebody who they deem too difficult, after their previous attempt to shut down Laurentien's foundation failed. As said above, the civil service (not of this ministery) succesfully did the exact same thing with Kadija Arib, also a 'difficult' woman apparently.

The real problem is not Laurentien slamming with doors -if she indeed was. The real problem is that she is needed at all and that the ministery itself -with 25.000 employees- has not found a way to solve this issue which they themselves have created. That is the real scandal and perhaps they and the media should focus their energies on that instead.

 

[SOS]

Why is the Princess so heavily involved in this political issue? Perhaps this is exactly why royals shouldn't be meddling in politics to begin with.

I don't get it either. The king and the former prime minister really messed up. I wonder how the new prime minister will fix this.

 

[Somebody]

What should the king have done differently in this area? It would have been an enormous overreach had he tried to get himself involved in fixing this highly-political issue (he did receive parents that were duped and listened to their stories, most likely encouraged the PM to find a solution but there is not much more he could have done imho); much worse than princess Laurentien now trying to do so.

When Laurentien started, the general thought was that this issue needed fixing; even these days nobody questions her intentions. The problem is more the way she goes about things. My take is that members of the royal family are used to things going their way, so have a hard time dealing with opposition (independent of who is right or wrong or if there is even a right or wrong). These days that apparently can lead to discussions of their 'assertive' behavior if this takes place in certain contexts.

 

[tommy100]

I think there is more to this than we know. I agree Laurentine shouldn't have got as involved - maybe once it got to the working with the ministry she should have taken a step back and allowed the foundation staff and ministry staff to achieve it together - it also would have allowed her to be kept in reserve to help smooth things over if needs be.

Sounds to me that Laurentine came up against civil servants who are use to getting their own way and so resented her foundation and her being allowed to run with their ideas. Sounds like they all need to be a little more professional but I think it reflects just as badly on the civil servants as Laurentine IMO.

But yes, better all round if she'd stepped away - or to one side - earlier.

 

[SOS]

What should the king have done differently in this area? It would have been an enormous overreach had he tried to get himself involved in fixing this highly-political issue (he did receive parents that were duped and listened to their stories, most likely encouraged the PM to find a solution but there is not much more he could have done imho); much worse than princess Laurentien now trying to do so.

When Laurentien started, the general thought was that this issue needed fixing; even these days nobody questions her intentions. The problem is more the way she goes about things. My take is that members of the royal family are used to things going their way, so have a hard time dealing with opposition (independent of who is right or wrong or if there is even a right or wrong). These days that apparently can lead to discussions of their 'assertive' behavior if this takes place in certain contexts.

Yeah. She probably has good intentions but she's not spending her own money. She's spending taxpayers money. And if you spend taxpayers money, you will get questions. I do think that officials sometimes spend way more on advice than on the actual problem, so I do like her approach, but the over-the-top assertive behavior is out of line. It shouldn't been my way or the highway.

 

[Marengo]

Jimmy Dijk, leader of the Socialist Party -one of the few republican parties- has thrown in his voice to defend the Princess.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1821485702493753648

Note that his party was essensial in uncovering the scandal, together with the leader of a spin-off party of the Christian Democrats.

He cites the foundation's statements in the Algemeen Dagblad. They say that parents/victims recognise the same pattern now as the one they had to deal with during and after the scandal. A pattern of abuse of power, false alligations and having to prove innocence repeatedly. he adds the remark: 'Go and solve problems of people who have been in misery for years. Many proposals have been made to improve the sollutions for the parents. The ministery itself did little to nothing. The SGH [foundation of Laurentien] does bring solutions that make people feel seen and heard. There is a lot to learn from that'.

From the article it is interesting to note that from February onwards the princess only dealt with the director general of Benifits, the secretary general of the ministery and the state secretary (under minister). Supposedly to protect the rest of the civil servants from her `mood swings` [one onder if there were any women among the civil servants using that terminology btw but as they were anonimous we will never know].

The article claims that as Laurentien is a member of the royal house, the civil servants could not file an official complaint and only did so unoficially and verbally. The foundation says that this is untrue. They point out nobody in the country is free of that and they could have filed a complaint. They also point out that due to her position it is difficult for the princess to defend herself.
IMO I do feel that an ordinary civil servants will indeed think twice or thrice before complaining about the Princess oficially, esp. when they still have their carreers to think of.

Although my sympathy is not with the ministery, we simply can not have a member of the RF involved in this, all the good intentions -and results- nonwithstanding.

One wonders if and when the new prime minister will step in. Although he is not an experienced politician he certainly was one of the most experienced and senior civil servants we have. The same goes for the King: he is the head of his house and although it may be painful this simply can not continue. For now, as the article notes, the dossier stays on the plate of the underminister of Finance, Nora Achachbar.

The ministery can pat itself on the back for a hitjob well orchestrated. Let's hope they will show the same dedication to solving this matter, which they have been unable and unwilling to do for several years now.

 

[SOS]

Jimmy Dijk, leader of the Socialist Party -one of the few republican parties- has thrown in his voice to defend the Princess.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1821485702493753648

Note that his party was essensial in uncovering the scandal, together with thee leader of a spin-off party of the Christian Democrats.

He cites the foundation's statements in the Algemeen Dagblad. They say that parents/victims recognise the same pattern now as the one they had to deal with during and after the scandal. A pattern of abuse of power, false alligations and having to prove innocence repeatedly. he adds the remark: 'Go and solve problems of people who have been in misery for years. Many proposals have been made to improve the sollutions for the parents. The ministery itself did little to nothing. The SGH [foundation of Laurentien] does bring solutions that make people feel seen and heard. There is a lot to learn from that'.

From the article it is interesting to note that from February onwards the princess only dealt with the director general of Benifits, the secretary general of the ministery and the state secretary (under minister). Supposedly to protect the rest of the civil servants from her `mood swings` [one onder if there were any women among the civil servants using that terminology btw but as they were anonimous we will never know].

The article claims that as Laurentien is a member of the royal house, the civil servants could not file an official complaint and only did so unoficially and verbally. The foundation says that this is untrue. They point out nobody in the country is free of that and they could have filed a complaint. They also point out that due to her position it is difficult for the princess to defend herself.
IMO I do feel that an ordinary civil servants will indeed think twice or thrice before complaining about the Princess oficially, esp. when they still have their carreers to think of.

Although my sympathy is not with the ministery, we simply can not have a member of the RF involved in this, all the good intentions -and results- nonwithstanding.

One wonders if and when the new prime minister will step in. Although he is not an experienced politician he certainly was one of the most experienced and senior civil servants we have. The same goes for the King: he is the head of his house and although it may be painful this simply can not continue. For now, as the article notes, the dossier stays on the plate of the underminister of Finance, Nora Achachbar.

The ministery can pat itself on the back for a hitjob well orchestrated. Let's hope they will show the same dedication to solving this matter, which they have been unable and unwilling to do for several years now.

I agree with this. I wonder what the king and the new prime minister will do. The new under minister seems quite capable tbh and also wants to solve this matter as soon as possible.

 

[Marengo]

Let's hope so. We have had capable under ministers before though. And I am sure the majority of civil servants also wished this issue to be resolved. But somehow there is a wall of bureaucracy that even they can not get through and the ministery will almost automatically fall into the spasm to defend the ministery. We have seen this in other dossiers too.

Anyway, the commentary in the newspapers seems to be in agreement: the Princess will need to lay down her responsibilities while her foundation should be able to continue. The (previous) prime minister should never have allowed her to get involved in such a way to start with.

Prinses Laurentien opnieuw in opspraak: ‘Heel onverstandig dat ze zich met de toeslagenaffaire bemoeit’

Er is opnieuw ophef ontstaan over prinses Laurentien vanwege haar betrokkenheid bij de afhandeling van de toeslagenaffaire. Kunnen leden van het koningshuis wel politiek gevoelige functies bekleden? ‘De premier had deze functie moeten ontraden.’

www.trouw.nl

In 'Het oog op morgen' a comparison is made with Prince Claus, who was forced to lay down his function at development aid due to political controversies.

https://podcast.npo.nl/feed/met-het-oog-op-morgen.xml

The emeritus professor that is interviewed thinks the new prime minister should convince the princess to step down, though there is no elegant way out at this point anymore.

-

A lawyer for several of the victims defens the princess on Eén Vandaag. Suzanne Arakelyan says: "I can well imagine that Laurentien has become frustrated about the way things are going, because so am I, every day. And when you really see what happens in practice, how parents are treated and how things are going and what kind of legal violence is done, then you can get frustrated about that. But I don't think she was intimidating."

According to the lawyer, the ministry quickly finds people who disagree with her "aggressive or intimidating." She continues: "And if you stand up for the interests of parents, then those interests sometimes conflict with the interests of the ministry. And that doesn't always turn out very well and they don't like that."

She says that there were complaints about her own behavior too: "People thought I came across as intimidating and that my tone was not good. I think that I stand up for the interests of my clients and that I should be clear about that. And I absolutely do not recognize myself in being intimidating towards the employees".

 

[Marengo]

A group of victims of the child benifit scandal have written an open letter to the politicians and the media. It seems they are livid about what happened to the princess and how anonymous civil servants try to get rid of her.

--

They wonder when the scandal will finally stop. Or if the Child benifit scandal is slowly turning into a new scandal, namely which they already call the ´herstelschandaal´

The letter starts with:

'Last week the news was dominated by accusations of anonymous civil servants of the ministery of Finance. This started a true witch hunt on Laurentien van Oranje, in her role as boardmember of the Foundation SGH. What happens here is beyond any borders of decency."

Later on they credit Laurentien for finally finding a sollution (IIRC her method solved as many cases in a few months as the ministery did in several years).

While they set out the reasons why the method worked, why they are happy with it and what problems they have come across with the ministery of Finance, they continue:

"We are angry because Laurentien - a woman who believed in us and made us feel more confidence in life- has already been convicted by the media and a few political scientists on the basis of anonymous accounts. We truely wonder how editors could engage in 'trial by media'. How could they simply go along with the accounts of anonymous civil servants, who have a lot to gain by putting up smoke screens?"

Later on:

"From the moment Laurentien got engaged with this subject she has tried to give us and our children a real voice. She made sure we were no longer being sent from pillar to post. Because of that to many of us she is a courageous beacon of justie, hope and faith."

They added that their faith in Laurentien was not due to her membership of the royal house but because of a proces of 'thousands of steps" . They continued: "We asked Laurentien to help us because she was the only one who still saw us as human beings, she looked for connections with us and saw our potential.

"Laurentien creates an atmosphere in which we feel safe, seen and heard. She dares to feel our emotions herself. And she dares to listen patiently, profoundly and without pretentions. She has the gift to translate what she hears to human logic.

Etc. etc.

----
The last time a member of the royal family was praised this way must have been many decades ago.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1823264241471627611

 

[Marengo]

Prince Constantijn was interviewed on Radio1 by Sven Kockelmann (who is generally considered one of the toughest journalists of the moment).

He was interviewed about the Innovation platform he is working for and what policies are necessary for the new government to roll out in this sector to make sure the country does not lag behind.

In addition the interviewer shortly asked him about his wife and the recent upheaval (see above) The prince calls the attacks on his wife 'baseless' but admitted it 'hasn't been a good time' for his wife. 'I have known her for a very long time and I know that what has been described has no simularity at all with how she is'.

His wife decided not to defend herself: 'She doesnt want to throw mud back at them. For her it is important that the parents will receive help'.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1828020947586105666

Sven op 1 - Beluister Prins Constantijn: 'Aantijgingen tegen prinses Laurentien zijn op niets gebaseerd' (26 augustus 2024) | Podcasts

Beluister Sven op 1: Prins Constantijn: 'Aantijgingen tegen prinses Laurentien zijn op niets gebaseerd' (26 augustus 2024)

www.nporadio1.nl

Constantijn komt op voor Laurentien na aantijgingen: ’Op niets gebaseerd’

Constantijn vertelde dat zijn vrouw „een en ander voor haar kiezen heeft gekregen” en dat hij niets gelooft van de aantijgingen.

www.telegraaf.nl

It would be VERY odd if the Princess would start attacking civil servants IMO, so I am glad she does not as it would create a strange situation, taking ministerial responsibility into account. At the same time that does mean that she has great difficulties in defending herself against these anonimous attacks.

 

[Somebody]

The NOS also published a short article based on the above mentioned interview. It highlights that it is important to prince Constantijn to continue his current activities and would not like to be limited to ceremonial tasks (as was suggested by one of the party leaders of the current coalition government). He also stressed that currently, he is not undertaking ceremonial engagements but has a job (to promote innovation) and that both he and his wife need to acquire their own income and are not receiving money from the state. All in all, he feels that the current arrangement (in which they take on their own projects but do discuss their involvement with various ministries) is balanced and works well.

Constantijn wil niet louter linten doorknippen, springt in de bres voor Laurentien

De broer van koning Willem-Alexander spreekt zich in de publiciteit uit over de kritiek op zijn vrouw en het plan om minder inhoudelijk werk te doen.

nos.nl

I do understand where he is coming from. It is a delicate balance to on the one had require the couple to be above reproach (and under 'ministerial responsibility') as members of the royal house (note that for about 9 years he was the first adult in line to the throne) but also require them to find their own way in life in terms of earning money by a satisfying career. I think the main thing is to very carefully consider any involvement in topics that might turn political (or are political in nature as with the current benefits affair) while still finding ways to contribute to society.

In the past Pieter van Vollenhoven also tried to do a similar balancing act. Not everyone was initially happy when he got involved with the topic of 'safety' but in the end he definitely made a difference - culminating in him being the first chair of the 'research council for safety' (which is now an institute of stature in the Netherlands).

 

[Somebody]

Princess Laurentien just announced that she stepped down as chair of the foundation focused on the benefits scandal as she doesn't want to stand in the way of its work and wants a happy life herself as well. She made the decision this weekend and was not pressured/asked to do so by either the king or prime minister.

Prinses Laurentien stopt als voorzitter van stichting voor toeslagenouders - Prinses Laurentien stopt als voorzitter van stichting voor toeslagenouders

 

[Somebody]

NRC (a Dutch quality newspaper with a liberal image) is reporting -on the basis of document analysis and interviews with 20 'stakeholders'- that conflicts between princess Laurentien and civil servants at the ministry date from as early as 2021 - when she was trying to find a solution for the children of parents that are involved in the benefits scandal (via her Missing Chapter Foundation). According to the sources, the princess tried to put a substantive stamp on the agreement, accused civil servants of a lack of respect and made derogatory comments towards them. At that point the secretary of state (responsible for solving the benefits scandal) implemented the rule that only 2 specifically assigned policy officers were allowed to be in touch with the princess. When asked for a response, the princess stated that she does not recognize herself in the image that is painted by the newspaper article.

NRC: Prinses Laurentien al eerder in conflict met ambtenaren

De verantwoordelijk staatssecretaris is verschillende keren gewaarschuwd over het gedrag van de prinses, schrijft NRC.

nos.nl

 

[An Ard Ri]

Princess Laurentien should not involve the Dutch Monarchy in any more hot water even if her intentions are honourable towards the victims of the child benifit scandal.

 

[Marengo]

Thanks for that, Somebody. I wish the NRC would be as critical and as interested about the rehabilitation efforts of the ministery -5 years going and utterly failing- as they are about the princess. But a whisper campaign of anonymous sources seems more interesting to them. I understand it is juicy, but they could at least approach the civil servants with the same criticism they reserve for the princess.

I am not sure why the last article is news, how is it relevant? She cán have disagreements. Many people working together have. And after so many years of incompetence, false promisses, lies and sabortage on the side of the ministery, who on earth are they to cast this stone? If civil servants feel mistreated by a few harsh words one wonders how they think about the Kafkian mess at their own tax service and ministery and victims who to this day are treated as criminals and who have no view on rehabilitation by a bureaucratic and unwilling insitution focussed first and foremost on saving its own reputation.

As for the princess stepping down: sad but the only thing she could do. And the civil service can congratulate itself on a hitjob well executed. But if a member of the Royal Family can not force a sollution in this dossier and can not make the ministery cooporate, who can?

With the incompetent and weak government that was recently installed we will be even more run by a camarillo of civil servants. They have the real power in this country. The quality of ministers and parlament has tumbled these last decades and the civil service can basically spin most ministers around. It is fundamentally undemocratic that the service has this power. They need to do what the government / parlament tells them to do. Not the other way around. And I really don't think the civil service should be able to knife down anyone critical of it.

This whole affair really leaves a bad taste. It shows how completely messed up things are at the ministery. I fear the victims will never see the end of it and will never get the rehabilitation they are entitled to.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Members of the Royal Family should not be interfering in politics even if it is for a good cause ,it could very well backfire on the Princess and damage the Monarchy.

 

[Somebody]

The post below gives a perspective from someone in the NGO world who has also met Laurentien in that capacity. She points out that this week must have been very painful for the families impacted by the benefit scandal. In princess Laurentien they finally found someone who really listened and made a difference.

Carin Rots - de Vries on LinkedIn: #burgerinitiatief

Dit is een pijnlijke week. Haast ongrijpbare maar sterke krachten brengen opnieuw schade toe aan gezinnen die het slachtoffer zijn geworden van de…

www.linkedin.com

 

[SOS]

I do think Laurentien had the best intentions, but it seems it turned into a power struggle between her organization and the ministry. The ministry was pretty useless because they’re too cautious, and their method would have taken ages to produce results. They have too many lawyers, while Laurentien’s approach is much more practical.

However, the princess is wading into muddy waters. Her method has some support in parliament, but I doubt she herself will have enough backing. Reports suggest she can be quite dominant, and as a result, her good intentions might negatively impact the monarchy.

 

[iceflower]

Prince Constantijn opened the Gorlaeus building of the Faculty of Science of Leiden University today, September 2:


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