Prince Andrew Relinquishes Use of Titles & Honours, & Move to Sandringham 17 Oct 2025


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I’m shocked.

But- then this PR mess was just never ending. Every day. Nothing they were doing was ending it.

I’d glad this doesn’t impact his daughters. That’s the right thing to do imo. They’ve done nothing wrong.

I do think this could be a slippery slope for future royals, but I get why the decision was made.

I think it is starting to impact Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie Erin9.

Andrew Lownie … who is actually an historian and not just an author or journalist … has been doing the podcast circuit I think, I seem to have seen a lot of him on different social media sites lately.

One I saw yesterday had him telling about the immense pressure applied to the National Ballet to use Eugenie’s business for a series of auction events.

Also, that one of the daughter’s MBA was requested for free by way of Andrew becoming that college’s patron.

Mr Lownie isn’t saying this is coming from the daughters themselves, but he is pointing out that they too have made money … private/ personal money … from their Royal titles and positions.

I think as more of the general public hear of different things, the whole set-up will come across as shabbier and shabbier and will taint them in people’s eyes.
 
I kinda doubt that Beatrice and Eugenie were completely unaware and uninvolved in their parents dodgyness. But we must also not cast guilt by association. I think that a lot of journalistic work in the future will focus on the connection of the york princesses with the scandals of their father. This saga won't stop anytime soon, unfortunately.

Re

Re Beatrice and Eugenie I can forgive them any associates they may have met pre Epstein's past and Andrew's involvement / reliance upon him being revealed but since then they would have to be extremely *naïve* (choosing kindest way to put it) to openly and happily meet with anyone their father or mother suggests or arranged for them to do so after that.
People like S and A have long histories of financial affairs , gifts, and favors from wealthy acquaintances. They probably labled it as “hospitality” or “support.” If the York girls grew up in that environment, they may have learned to treat gifts like that as routine gestures. It’s not normal for us, but it is to them.

That said, it’s likely a mix of both:being raised in an environment where S and A regularly received gifts and learning not to question the money that came their way, and greedily taking it, taking that lavish life too far. I hope that habit is honestly kicked.

But even Kate has received controversial gifts, such as the diamond and ruby floral-fringe necklace from Alain Mouwad, whose donor was never publicly identified. The Queen received two necklaces from the Emir of Qatar worth $2 mil, goodness knows more stuff that makes one side eye them, least make you think tone deaf.

Charles has received even more questionable cash from things like his cash to honors controversy; the beloved Sophie also received controversial jewelry sets and gifts from Bahrain and that was seen as tone-deaf to accept them. Theyof course, were criticized for accepting gifts as working royals.

Whether we like those things or not, things like that are always happening. Not saying it’s right — just common — and it’s more commonplace for the receiver not to question them and have others deal with things, and everyone from favorites has done this. It’s a bigger issue than the York gals and their parents .Yes the royal family have set of rules with gifts but clearly they don’t often follow it.

I find it interesting that AL is dragging the York gals specifically.
Epstein's past and Andrew's involvement / reliance upon him being revealed but since then they would have to be extremely *naïve* (choosing kindest way to put it) to openly and happily meet with anyone their father or mother suggests or arranged for them to do so after that.
I still blame F and S for any of their involvements with people like Jeff. They were maybe 10 when allegedly got to know people like him, a predator/trAfficker, A and fergie needed to be bankrolled, allegedly.

They made a caring bond grow with a predator, close enough that fergie allegedly took their daughters to his prison release party. Close enough where his girls may have cried over a predator’s death due to a bond their parents allowed growing up.

I shudder to think what other people the York gals came into contact with growing up.

Honestly A and S deserve what’s happening to them, because having stuff like a peerage put in a box where they can’t touch it is like the biggest ego burst to people like them.
I would hope that the King or the Wales invite Beatrice and Eugenie to some type of public event as a sign that they are still within the emotional support circle of the royal family.

I am more concerned about B&E than anyone else.
They do go to Charles events unofficially, like elephant family, etc. Working more behind the scenes the scenes it seems, if it counts for something some of the press writes that C and W are trying to to protect them the best the can, I tend to believe that.

Me too,I’m sure they had to learn to be strong throughout the Years of their parents ‘misgivings .”
I think it is starting to impact Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie Erin9.

Andrew Lownie … who is actually an historian and not just an author or journalist … has been doing the podcast circuit I think, I seem to have seen a lot of him on different social media sites lately.

One I saw yesterday had him telling about the immense pressure applied to the National Ballet to use Eugenie’s business for a series of auction events.

Also, that one of the daughter’s MBA was requested for free by way of Andrew becoming that college’s patron.

Mr Lownie isn’t saying this is coming from the daughters themselves, but he is pointing out that they too have made money … private/ personal money … from their Royal titles and positions.

I think as more of the general public hear of different things, the whole set-up will come across as shabbier and shabbier and will taint them in people’s eyes.
He has an axe to grind with the girls too. Honestly his work comes off as more gossipy.
Lownie: Well, I'm afraid I'm one of the commentators who doesn't feel for the girls too much. I mean, I know quite a lot about them and their involvement in what their parents were up to. And so I'm afraid I don't have a great deal of sympathy for them.

Interviewer: Do you think that they've inherited some of the traits of their parents?

Lownie: I'm afraid so.
 
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^^^
“I still blame F and S for any of their involvements with people like Jeff.”

Sorry, who are F and S?
 
You made some very good points duchesschicana. I might add regarding jobs/work I think it's a very fine line for the daughters between what is someone legitimately looking to help you or someone looking to use you. I look at my own family and friends and how you would help someone's child get an internship, help them get their foot in the door, send business their way without expecting anything in return so I don't see them thinking anything of it. I think the gifts such as expensive pieces if jewelry and cash could be problematic.
 
A point Andrew Lownie was making duchessshicana is that when Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie accompanied Andrew on various government trips over the years, this cost the taxpayers of Britain.

More money needed for security personnel and such.

But the taxpayers didn’t benefit from this expenditure.

The taxpayers paid, and the benefit went to members of the Royal Family personally.

On another note, more property owned personally by the Royal Family is being brought to general knowledge … even in the Bahamas.
 
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Could you point to the section in UK law that says that?

Thanks
I think the newest revisions are under the Modern Slavery Act of 2015. If you could even possibly think that Great Britain freely allows sex with trafficked persons I really don't know what to say to you.


This is more to everyone in general - I feel like I am seeing a separation on this forum between women who have been in non-consensual situations and those that have not and may have a more difficult time understanding what is like. As someone who was in a non-consensual 'relationship' as an adult, I get it. I lived two doors from my mother and my abuser was not in my home at all times but I had no way out. And I received no help from the police. I knew things would not end until one of us died and he drank himself to death. I take a huge risk of judgement saying this but I know there are decent people who understand.
 
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I think it is starting to impact Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie Erin9.
(...)
Also, that one of the daughter’s MBA was requested for free by way of Andrew becoming that college’s patron. (...)
Which daughter is supposed to have received a MBA-degree? It's not on Beatrice's LinkedIn-page and I am not aware of any mention of a MBA for Eugenie either.
 
Which daughter is supposed to have received a MBA-degree? It's not on Beatrice's LinkedIn-page and I am not aware of any mention of a MBA for Eugenie either.

That wasn’t the claim Somebody.

Mr Lownie said that an institution was asked to provide a MBA course for free … no fees, costs, charges, expenses … and Prince Andrew would become their patron to compensate them.

I don’t think the offer was accepted.

Same with the National Ballet … “immense pressure” put on them to use Eugenie’s company, but they didn’t crumble.

The point I was making was in response Erin9 hoping the daughters weren’t being impacted … and to me it looks like they are.
 
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You made some very good points duchesschicana. I might add regarding jobs/work I think it's a very fine line for the daughters between what is someone legitimately looking to help you or someone looking to use you. I look at my own family and friends and how you would help someone's child get an internship, help them get their foot in the door, send business their way without expecting anything in return so I don't see them thinking anything of it. I think the gifts such as expensive pieces if jewelry and cash could be problematic.
Exactly people use their connections to get ahead in life, their connections just happen to be royal adjacent and high class business people , but I’m also sure it wasn’t as simple as old friends helping the girls either judging by the dad’s cicle of friends, help came with strings attached IF things even happened that way

It is problematic and tone deaf to receive jewelry and cash to us, but it’s more common than people think involving royals, not only the ‘Yorks.’ And stuff like this will continue to happen, but of course most of the time it’s brushed under the rug.
A point Andrew Lownie was making duchessshicana is that when Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie accompanied Andrew on various government trips over the years, this cost the taxpayers of Britain.

More money needed for security personnel and such.

But the taxpayers didn’t benefit from this expenditure.

The taxpayers paid, and the benefit went to members of the Royal Family personally.

I understand his sentiments if he meant it that way on certain things like that. I think the York girls meant well with the tours, but It did come at someone else’s price.

I bet he is more hinting in them using their alleged connections/gaining favors/gifts which what royal has allegedly done this as I pointed out, not that it’s right.

But just the way he is wording things, tells me has a biased hatred especially towards the parents rightfully so I’m no fan of theirs either , but it seem to seep in a bit towards the gals a bit as well in my peanut gallery opinion. Shrugs, to each their own views.
^^^
“I still blame F and S for any of their involvements with people like Jeff.”

Sorry, who are F and S?
I’m sorry for that mishap I meant A and S. Andrew/Sarah
 
That wasn’t the claim Somebody.

Mr Lownie said that an institution was asked to provide a MBA course for free … no fees, costs, charges, expenses … and Prince Andrew would become their patron to compensate them.

I don’t think the offer was accepted.
Thanks for clarifying. Your original post talked about an that 'one of the daughter's MBA was requested for free', which suggested to me that at least one of the daughters had received a MBA-degree - for free/ in exchange for Andrew becoming a patron. As I had never heard of any interest by either of the daughters in a MBA program that made little sense (the request still makes little sense since neither one ended up doing a MBA program - and cost cannot have been the issue as even rather prestigious ones could easily be afforded by the York family).
 
I think the newest revisions are under the Modern Slavery Act of 2015. If you could even possibly think that Great Britain freely allows sex with trafficked persons I really don't know what to say to you.


This is more to everyone in general - I feel like I am seeing a separation on this forum between women who have been in non-consensual situations and those that have not and may have a more difficult time understanding what is like. As someone who was in a non-consensual 'relationship' as an adult, I get it. I lived two doors from my mother and my abuser was not in my home at all times but I had no way out. And I received no help from the police. I knew things would not end until one of us died and he drank himself to death. I take a huge risk of judgement saying this but I know there are decent people who understand.
Very sorry about your situation. You don't have to have been in such a terrible situation to imagine it.
 
Thanks for clarifying. Your original post talked about an that 'one of the daughter's MBA was requested for free', which suggested to me that at least one of the daughters had received a MBA-degree - for free/ in exchange for Andrew becoming a patron. As I had never heard of any interest by either of the daughters in a MBA program that made little sense (the request still makes little sense since neither one ended up doing a MBA program - and cost cannot have been the issue as even rather prestigious ones could easily be afforded by the York family).

Sorry for the confusion Somebody, I try not to get too verbose in my posts. (Don’t think I’m succeeding in that!)

Those two instances did stand out to me though.

I just think general public people will soon be thinking about the daughters to their detriment … the detriment of the Princess’ reputations … the way the idea of Andrew living “rent free” took off.

I was surprised to hear Mr Lownie thinking Beatrice and Eugenie may give up their titles voluntarily.

I’m sure there is so much being said by people behind the scenes that we don’t know about, but little “bombs” are being dropped here and there without a big headline.

Mr Lownie said Sarah Ferguson still has many supporters in powerful positions and that she has also had her PR people out briefing all over the place.

He sees Andrew either feeding a “tame” author information in time to come, or both Andrew and Sarah leaking this and that to media outlets.

And will Andrew stay at Sandringham, or come and go to the Gulf States … or even Thailand … and fly under the radar of the media and public, still living the life.
 
People like S and A have long histories of financial affairs , gifts, and favors from wealthy acquaintances. They probably labled it as “hospitality” or “support.” If the York girls grew up in that environment, they may have learned to treat gifts like that as routine gestures. It’s not normal for us, but it is to them.

That said, it’s likely a mix of both:being raised in an environment where S and A regularly received gifts and learning not to question the money that came their way, and greedily taking it, taking that lavish life too far. I hope that habit is honestly kicked.

But even Kate has received controversial gifts, such as the diamond and ruby floral-fringe necklace from Alain Mouwad, whose donor was never publicly identified. The Queen received two necklaces from the Emir of Qatar worth $2 mil, goodness knows more stuff that makes one side eye them, least make you think tone deaf.

Charles has received even more questionable cash from things like his cash to honors controversy; the beloved Sophie also received controversial jewelry sets and gifts from Bahrain and that was seen as tone-deaf to accept them. Theyof course, were criticized for accepting gifts as working royals.

Whether we like those things or not, things like that are always happening. Not saying it’s right — just common — and it’s more commonplace for the receiver not to question them and have others deal with things, and everyone from favorites has done this. It’s a bigger issue than the York gals and their parents .Yes the royal family have set of rules with gifts but clearly they don’t often follow it.

I'm quite surprised that members of the royal family supposedly kept these gifts. I always thought they followed the rules and that there were controls in the royal household. The rules are clearly defined:


Incidentally, this is also how it's handled for high-ranking politicians, at least in Germany. Otherwise, there would be suspicion of corruption. Whenever such a case came to light, there were usually serious consequences for the person who accepted the gifts.
 
Mr Lownie said in this french translation in my belgian newspaper that Andrew only wanted people who agreed him a lot of people dismissed.It is therefore he gave his disastrious interview on BBC in 2019 .
Serving in the Army , he was unpopular and bad. In the navy he was the worst pilote but he got the first price and his commandant became amiral.
His end a Forrest will remain a forest even with two infected trees.
 
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Wasn’t Queen Camilla a great friend of Fergie’s mother Susan Barrantes for years and years, so she would have known Sarah since birth probably, and through social circles while she was married to Andrew PB and Charles later on?

Didn't Camilla have Sarah reinstated as patron of her late brother’s charity, the Elephant Family?
 
People like S and A have long histories of financial affairs , gifts, and favors from wealthy acquaintances. They probably labled it as “hospitality” or “support.” If the York girls grew up in that environment, they may have learned to treat gifts like that as routine gestures. It’s not normal for us, but it is to them.

That said, it’s likely a mix of both:being raised in an environment where S and A regularly received gifts and learning not to question the money that came their way, and greedily taking it, taking that lavish life too far. I hope that habit is honestly kicked.

But even Kate has received controversial gifts, such as the diamond and ruby floral-fringe necklace from Alain Mouwad, whose donor was never publicly identified. The Queen received two necklaces from the Emir of Qatar worth $2 mil, goodness knows more stuff that makes one side eye them, least make you think tone deaf.

Charles has received even more questionable cash from things like his cash to honors controversy; the beloved Sophie also received controversial jewelry sets and gifts from Bahrain and that was seen as tone-deaf to accept them. Theyof course, were criticized for accepting gifts as working royals.

Whether we like those things or not, things like that are always happening. Not saying it’s right — just common — and it’s more commonplace for the receiver not to question them and have others deal with things, and everyone from favorites has done this. It’s a bigger issue than the York gals and their parents .Yes the royal family have set of rules with gifts but clearly they don’t often follow it.

I find it interesting that AL is dragging the York gals specifically.
Could I ask why these gifts are more controversial than receiving a gift from Canada or Australia. for example.
Is it because it is the Gulf states. It is not unusual for the Gulf states to give generous gifts to their guests/ hosts. The gifts are obviously known about. The UK trade with these countries along with many other countries around the world.
Could I also ask what is controversial about Kate s diamond and ruby necklace. ?
 
A further BBC Panorama is being aired this evening containing previously unseen extracts from the original Virginia Giuffre interview . A short preview clip from the programme was shown on BBC Breakfast this morning and it will undoubtedly stoke the flames again, despite it not being anything new in terms of what we already know.

 
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I think the newest revisions are under the Modern Slavery Act of 2015. If you could even possibly think that Great Britain freely allows sex with trafficked persons I really don't know what to say to you.


This is more to everyone in general - I feel like I am seeing a separation on this forum between women who have been in non-consensual situations and those that have not and may have a more difficult time understanding what is like. As someone who was in a non-consensual 'relationship' as an adult, I get it. I lived two doors from my mother and my abuser was not in my home at all times but I had no way out. And I received no help from the police. I knew things would not end until one of us died and he drank himself to death. I take a huge risk of judgement saying this but I know there are decent people who understand.
I am deeply sorry you’ve had to live in an abusive relationship- it sounds like this was in the past? I’m not sure where you live but, if you haven’t already, please seek out counseling for trauma. It’s never too late to get the help you deserve. Blessings!
 
If that 17 year old was trafficked she would not be able to consent. She could be 30 and it would still be a crime.

Could you point to the section in UK law that says that?

Thanks

I think the newest revisions are under the Modern Slavery Act of 2015. If you could even possibly think that Great Britain freely allows sex with trafficked persons I really don't know what to say to you.

Whether “Great Britain freely allows sex with trafficked persons” is independent of whether any poster here “could even possibly think it”.

The law says what it says, no matter if any of us know it, think it, or like it.

I understand that this news story is deeply sensitive for you and for many other people here and elsewhere, for very good reasons. Nevertheless, that cannot justify the implication that other participants in the discussion must condone or have no understanding of abuse, because they tried to ascertain the facts and clear away misinformation.

To reflect some of the replies to your earlier comment alleging that online posters (in general) were “fawning over [Andrew]”: There is a difference between fawning (or overlooking abuse) and keeping to facts or analyzing a situation differently.

In regard to your comment on the Modern Slavery Act of 2015: Here is its text. I do not see any clause in it stating that sex with a trafficked person is (in and of itself) a criminal offense. But please do correct me if I am wrong.




This is more to everyone in general - I feel like I am seeing a separation on this forum between women who have been in non-consensual situations and those that have not and may have a more difficult time understanding what is like. As someone who was in a non-consensual 'relationship' as an adult, I get it. I lived two doors from my mother and my abuser was not in my home at all times but I had no way out. And I received no help from the police. I knew things would not end until one of us died and he drank himself to death. I take a huge risk of judgement saying this but I know there are decent people who understand.

I am deeply sorry for the traumatic experience you lived through. Daily exposure to this news story must be painful, and I wish you all possible support and understanding.

consent is defined as “ a person consents if he agrees by choice, and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice “ as per sexual offences act 2003. If she was trafficked, then i guess it would be argued she had no choice.

Yes, that was essentially the argument Virginia Giuffre put forward in her New York civil complaint against then Prince Andrew. (The legal age of consent to sex in New York State is 17, so she could not simply rely on her age.)

A significant point of law is that under the United Kingdom’s Sexual Offences Act 2003, a defendant in criminal court cannot be convicted of rape (or similar offenses) if the defendant “reasonably believed” that the victim consented to the sexual act, even if the victim did not consent in reality.

1 Rape

(1) A person (A) commits an offence if—

(a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,

(b) B does not consent to the penetration, and

(c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents.


(2) Whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents.

(3) Sections 75 and 76 apply to an offence under this section.

(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable, on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for life.



My inference from this (and I welcome corrections or disagreement) is that if person A had sex with trafficked person B, but A did not know at the time that B was trafficked, and A had no good reason to know at the time that B was trafficked, then A would not be guilty of a criminal offense.


Sections 75 and 76 outline situations in which the law presumes A knew B did not consent.


For example, according to section 75(2)(a): If evidence in court proved Jeffrey Epstein threatened one of his victims with violence immediately before she had sex (in the UK) with one of Epstein’s friends, and the evidence proved the friend knew Epstein did this, then the judge would presume the friend knew the victim was not consenting (and, therefore, that the friend was guilty of rape). The burden of proof would then be on the friend to prove he reasonably believed the victim consented.
 
Could I ask why these gifts are more controversial than receiving a gift from Canada or Australia. for example.
Is it because it is the Gulf states. It is not unusual for the Gulf states to give generous gifts to their guests/ hosts. The gifts are obviously known about. The UK trade with these countries along with many other countries around the world.
Could I also ask what is controversial about Kate s diamond and ruby necklace. ?
I wonder if it depends whether the gift is seen as a personal gift for that specific person or if it is for that person and the country to enjoy (worn on special events). I would think its a difficult position to be put in because you wouldn't want to insult the person giving the gift and cause "problems".
 
As predicted, when the press rans out of steam and the stories on Andrew are not enough to sell, they would go after his daughters. Today I saw headlines and YouTube videos from news agencies all going after the girls, demanding them to be punished, remove their princess status and force them to be interrogated and speak about their father and mother.

This is a very French Revolution reign of terror madness mentality. The press today basically wants the public to hate the daughters so a new story can be build up by the media commentators to fill in TV and online time for the rest of the year.

The daughters are not responsible for the actions of Andrew and Sarah, both have never been taken to a court or found guilty. Yet when TV and online commentators have nothing on Andrew for 24 hrs, they move to harass the children and start a new narrative: punish the girls so we can have something to make podcasts and news about. This is just vicious to go after them today.
 
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In a facetious, sarcastic manner I predicted earlier that this would happen Toledo.

I never imagined that it actually would become reality.

Very good anology with the French Revolution's Reign of Terror, with elements of the British press taking on the role of Robespierre.

Many in the public already dislike B and E because they have Andrew and Sarah as parents. They need little incentive to believe the worst about them.
 
As predicted, when the press rans out of steam and the stories on Andrew are not enough to sell, they would go after his daughters. Today I saw headlines and YouTube videos from news agencies all going after the girls, demanding them to be punished, remove their princess status and force them to be interrogated and speak about their father and mother.

This is a very French Revolution reign of terror madness mentality. The press today basically wants the public to hate the daughters so a new story can be build up by the media commentators to fill in TV and online time for the rest of the year.

The daughters are not responsible for the actions of Andrew and Sarah, both have never been taken to a court or found guilty. Yet when TV and online commentators have nothing on Andrew for 24 hrs, they move to harass the children and start a new narrative: punish the girls so we can have something to make podcasts and news about. This is just vicious to go after them today.
So true. I ticked the ‘like’ button for this post, but somehow ‘like’ doesn’t seem right in this instance.
 
I don't want to offend, but losing HRH status does not, to me, seem comparable to execution/the French Reign of Terror.

I have not seen any mainstream media or press call for only Beatrice and Eugenia to lose their titles and status solely because of the revelations about their parents' actions.

What I have seen a bit of is a much wider discussion as to whether the King should follow the example of the Swedish and Danish monarchies in limiting titles and statuses to working royals. This discussion is somewhat expected, as those in favor of limiting titles and status believe it will prevent problems like Andrew and Sarah in the future.
 
It is not unreasonable to wonder what Beatrice and Eugenie knew and to investigate and/or wonder what their levels of involvement are in their parents' shady business dealings or with Epstein.

Fergie and Andrew are after all their parents whom both girls are seeming close to. Neither girls have openly condemned the actions of their parents or made any public efforts to distance themselves.

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Epstein gifted both girls large quantities of money. For ex. Epstein and company attended Beatrice's 18th birthday party. I doubt he showed up empty-handed!
 
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