Prince Andrew Relinquishes Use of Titles & Honours, 17 Oct 2025


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Would the King/the government be able to strip Andrew of his British citizenship? Obviously he'd have to have a new life abroad first. Maybe in the USA?
He has done nothing that would come even close to providing a good reason to do so.

What people who believe Andrew is guilty want is to see him legally stripped of his titles and imprisoned but the fact is that he hasn’t been declared guilty of any crime yet.
What is the crime he is guilty of? It’s not having s*x with a 17 year old as that is legal in the UK.
 
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I entirely agree with this proposal. It makes no sense to have non working royals being HRH or even Prince/ess in my opinion.

Would he also agree with this for his own children and grandchildren? Will be interesting.

But again if this is the plan (allegedly) why wait? Especially where Andrew is concerned. It would be better than this mess now.
 
My question is— why wait? Do it now.
I think it would be better to do something like this during calmer times. Maybe at the start of a new reign. But after a certain interview, it maybe would have been controversial for some, if Charles would have done it in 2022. But we don't know if there really was or is such a plan at all.
 
Would the King/the government be able to strip Andrew of his British citizenship? Obviously he'd have to have a new life abroad first. Maybe in the USA?

In a word, no. He was born a British citizen, and will always be a British citizen, even if he later commits (and is convicted of) the most heinous of crimes.
 
The problem is that over the years between birth and adulthood circumstances change.
Exactly. None of Williams children are yet working Royals. Should they be Lords and Lady until they take up Royal duties? Should only George, as heir to the heir, have the title Prince?

Princess Alexandra has worked on behalf of the Crown all of her adult life but due to age and ill health is unable to undertake very few duties now. Should she be stripped of her title? How many years does one have to be a working Royal to be allowed to keep the title for life? How many duties a year class as being a working Royal?

What if Harry were to decide he made a mistake and wants to be a working Royal again. After being stripped to the title Prince, does he get to be a Prince again.

What seem to be simple answers usually have a lot of what ifs.
 
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This is from the Daily Beast’s Tom Sykes.

Would be very fascinating to see this be his first order of business as king.

My question is— why wait? Do it now. They have every reason for Andrew.
I agree. Charles has the power to do it now, so why not? You can’t use a title you don’t have, and if you tried the BRF could rightfully point out the error rather than wading through legal technicalities. A common argument is that “so and so said it was such and such about the titles”…so what? If their holding the title was detrimental to the BRF, why would the latter care? Especially if it isn’t punitive but practical (reducing the number of HRHs). If it isn’t punitive, then why would any of the people above feel slighted about losing their titles, and if it is punitive, then what have any of the above people done to be punished that way?

Could I ask those of you who are not satisfied with the announcement give us an idea of what would have been more suitable.
For me, personally, I wish they wouldn’t have made the statement at all, and just continued doing what they were doing.

At the moment, the BRF is being celebrated for stripping away Andrew’s titles. That is not true. Andrew’s own statement says nothing about losing titles. The BRF is being congratulated for a strong stance that’s really all smoke and mirrors.

And to be fair, the BRF has no obligation to do anything about Andrew. As others have stated, he has never been convicted of anything, and, as Edward VIII has shown, even supporting a plan to sell your family out to enemies is not grounds to remove the birthright of a prince, so who’s to say a criminal conviction would?

If they’re going to do nothing, than I rather them do nothing in silence instead of pretending that it’s actually doing something.
 
In my opinion, instead of all these far fetched suggestions, the only thing that really needs to be done is to make sure Andrew (and Sarah) absolutely are never ever front and center at any occasion ever again. They enter the side door at a funeral and stay the heck away from the working royals so there are no pictures of them together. That's it. the end. Nobody wants to see them front and center.
 
If, theoretically, Andrew had a son, would he be able to pass the Dukedom on to this son prematurely, given current circumstances?
 
If, theoretically, Andrew had a son, would he be able to pass the Dukedom on to this son prematurely, given current circumstances?

He would not. British peerages only transmit to the heir on the death of the incumbent - there is no way to expedite the process. If he had a son, the only way to make him Duke of York now would be passing an Act of Parliament to revoke the dukedom from Andrew, then executing Letters Patent to create it all over again for the son. But it would be an entirely new creation - not a continuation of Andrew's peerage.
 
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He would not. British peerages only transmit to the heir on the death of the incumbent - there is no way to expedite the process. If he had a son, the only way to make him Duke of York now would be passing an Act of Parliament that revokes the dukedom from Andrew, then executing Letters Patent that create it all over again for the son. But it would be an entirely new creation - not a continuation of Andrew's peerage.

Yep. If he had a son he would inherit it upon his death. It’s moot because he doesn’t have a son, but would be interesting to think of that conversation had he had one.

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The DailyMail has a new story about Sarah and Epstein’s relationship. According to emails being reviewed by Congress, Epstein bankrolled Sarah for 15 years.

Also, after he was released from prison in 2009, Sarah came to see him in New York. She brought along Beatrice and Eugenie.

The convicted paedophile complained to friends about the disgraced duchess's scrounging ways in messages that suggest his financial support went far beyond the £15,000 she admitted taking from him.

In the previously unseen emails, Epstein reveals Fergie was so desperate to cosy up to him that 'she was the first to celebrate' his release from jail 'with her two daughters in tow'. Princess Beatrice would have been 20 at the time and Eugenie 19, the same age as many of his victims.
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He wrote to his British lawyer Paul Tweed saying: '[Fergie] took apartments in New York. She was the first to celebrate my release with her two daughters in tow. She visited me with [a] policeman sitting at my front desk. She has asked for help with her charities.' He revealed he bought her the web address Mother's Army, adding: 'The fact that I bought it, if it were to be disclosed by her leaking staff, would be problematic.'
 
One question no one is talking about (at least not that I have seen): did the out of court settlement between Prince Andrew and Virginia Giuffre include a non-disclosure component?
A big reason for doing an out of court settlement is expediency, control of the outcome and discretion. In other words to make the issue go away.
I would’ve thought such a settlement would include a nondisclosure agreement (NDA). It doesn’t seem to be the case here. The plaintiff has gone on to write a book -barely 3 years after signing the agreement (and receiving monies) to rehash the issues and possibly divulge more details.

What gives? Surely the lawyers hired by the Queen must have thought about including an NDA in the settlement.
Any insight on this?
 
According to reports, Virginia didn’t sign an NDA. So she was free to speak out.

 
Maybe not the place, but the media are now focussing on Sarah's payments from Epstein. I never believed he only gave her £15,000. This was all, IMO, a more subtle version of Sarah hawking access to Andrew like she did when she was caught out by a fake Sheikh. Sarah befriended Epstein, through her he got to visit Royal estates, attend Royal events like Beatrice's 18th and apparently the "dance of the decades" party for Andrew's 40th, the Queen Mother's 100th, Margaret's 70th, Anne's 50th and William's 18th which was hosted at Windsor in 2000. I have no doubt Epstein was paying for this in some way - mainly through bankrolling Sarah.
 
Could I ask those of you who are not satisfied with the announcement give us an idea of what would have been more suitable.
I'm never one to want him losing his title(s). I'm just puzzled of what in Charles'mind with allowing Andrew and Sarah to be present openly with the other members of RF during some occasions these past few years, like Christmas walkabout or appear to lead the RF on Easter walk. Sure it was family occasions and some can argued that church is place for sinners or whatever, but the late Queen managed to exclude Sarah and even Andrew after the disastrous interview, so why Charles "welcome" them back? What does he thinks it would look to have the two of them being pictured with the other RF accepting bouquet of flowers and greeting well-wishers? Isn't it contradicts his purpose of excluding non-working royals from the balcony?
 
Maybe not the place, but the media are now focussing on Sarah's payments from Epstein. I never believed he only gave her £15,000. This was all, IMO, a more subtle version of Sarah hawking access to Andrew like she did when she was caught out by a fake Sheikh. Sarah befriended Epstein, through her he got to visit Royal estates, attend Royal events like Beatrice's 18th and apparently the "dance of the decades" party for Andrew's 40th, the Queen Mother's 100th, Margaret's 70th, Anne's 50th and William's 18th which was hosted at Windsor in 2000. I have no doubt Epstein was paying for this in some way - mainly through bankrolling Sarah.
Yes, and imo Andrew knew all about the cash for access scams (as well of course of the payments from friend and banker Epstein.) IMO it’s all of a piece with Andrew’s other shady dealings for years. with oligarchs etc, and veers very very near to all-out corrupt activity.
 
Andrew told Met to dig up dirt on Virginia Giuffre: Police launch probe as email reveals he procured private data for smear campaign

 
Here is the thing with Andrew— they all knew of his relationship with that man. I mean way AFTER he was exposed.

And let’s be real… Andrew is not the only one in that family who had dirty laundry. He was just too dumb about it. But I suspect (like many others) his knowledge is why he getting handled with kids gloves.

I am not surprised by any of this news. You don’t play off someone for millions of dollars because you are innocent.
 
What concerns and even angers me a bit is that all this attention on Andrew is making him the target of everyone's disgust and rage at Einstein.

Because no one has been able to bring any of the many much more culpable and powerful men to justice, people seem ok with venting all their frustration on Prince Andrew.

As another poster said, Prince Andrew is the Epstein patsy.☹️
 
And let’s be real… Andrew is not the only one in that family who had dirty laundry. He was just too dumb about it. But I suspect (like many others) his knowledge is why he getting handled with kids gloves.

One has to wonder how Andrew would have fared in the whole Epstein affair if he had not allowed that photo of him with Virginia Giuffre to be taken. He still couldn't have denied knowing Epstein, but could he have denied having met Giuffre? Would the problem still have ended in him paying her off?
 
What concerns and even angers me a bit is that all this attention on Andrew is making him the target of everyone's disgust and rage at Einstein.

Because no one has been able to bring any of the many much more culpable and powerful men to justice, people seem ok with venting all their frustration on Prince Andrew.

As another poster said, Prince Andrew is the Epstein patsy.☹️

You are not wrong but Andrew is a member of a powerful family and he made himself the patsy. He practically gift wrapped himself. He is an easy target that will dominate headlines,

One has to wonder how Andrew would have fared in the whole Epstein affair if he had not allowed that photo of him with Virginia Giuffre to be taken. He still couldn't have denied knowing Epstein, but could he have denied having met Giuffre? Would the problem still have ended in him paying her off?

I think the interview did him in. Ms Guiffre was in pictures with others that night too, including Naomi Campbell. They could have chalked it up to just a brief interaction but he couldn’t help himself.
 
They haven't been "of York" really since they've been married, even though we've seen the palace still refer to them as such. They are Princess Beatrice, Mrs Mapelli Mozzi and Princess Eugenie, Mrs Brooksbank. Separately, they are HRH Princess in their own right as grandchildren of a monarch, children of a monarch's son.

And the only time I have ever seen them referred to as "of York" is in the media.
Didn’t Beatrice and Eugenie stop using the ”of York” part after their weddings ? In the court circular they have been ”Princess Beatrice Mrs Edoardo Mapelli-Mozzi” and ”Princess Eugenie Mrs Jack Brooksbank” since then..

Officially – i.e., according to Buckingham Palace – the York princesses became “HRH Princess Eugenie, Mrs. Jack Brooksbank” and “HRH Princess Beatrice, Mrs. Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi” on marriage, indeed.

However, Princess Eugenie herself continued to use “HRH Princess Eugenie of York” for her charitable work for two years or so after marrying. (And even the Court Circular used it once.) Many examples are documented in this thread:


Moreover, the sisters continue to use “Eugenie York” and “Beatrice York” as their professional names to this day (at least before their father’s announcement).

So yes, they have used the York name after marriage, even if it is not “official”.




Regarding the announcement itself: I have not yet had the time to read through the news coverage, but a few points which I am not sure have been addressed in this thread:


1. It seems there were two separate statements:

One on the record from Prince Andrew personally, which defended his character and was rather vague about what were the “title and the honours which have been conferred upon me” that he would “no longer use”.

One from Buckingham Palace but not for attribution, which clarified the practical matters: title meant York dukedom, honours meant knighhood, Sarah, family Christmas etc.


2. I freely admit that English common law, traditionalists, dedicated BRF watchers, and likely Andrew himself regard Duke of York as his highest title.

Nonetheless, probably 99% of the general public consider “Prince” his most elevated title – and he will remain known as “Prince Andrew”. Therefore, the framing of “Andrew gives up his title!” seems to be an oversell.

On the other hand, I agree with those who do not think the fact that he will legally remain a duke matters much. Being a “technical” duke does not really have any practical effects in 2025.


3. There was no protocolar reason why Sarah, Duchess of York needed to revert to her maiden name as a result of her ex-husband’s change of usage.

Standard practice is that divorced peeresses’ titles are frozen until they remarry: A woman who marries and then divorces a courtesy Earl (and has not remarried) continues to use the courtesy title of Jane, Countess of X even after her ex-husband is promoted to The Duke of Y.

Thus, there must be a reason specific to this particular case why Sarah is giving up her “Duchess of York”. Is she, like Andrew, considered a distraction from the royal family’s work these days, ?




Source: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/50524/page/6909
 
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Would the King/the government be able to strip Andrew of his British citizenship? Obviously he'd have to have a new life abroad first. Maybe in the USA?
As far as I know, no country would strip a person of their citizenship if they acquired that citizenship by birth. Even if someone commits high treason and is sentenced to life imprisonment or even the death penalty, they would not be stripped of their citizenship.
 
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