Prince Andrew and His Alleged Relationship with a Chinese Agent


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It is the King’s brother [...] who for whatever reason is still deep in the bosom of his family at family and State occasions. He and his ex wife will be there at Sandringham this Christmas.

The Chinese Govt only has use for people whom they conceive as being useful to them because of their hundreds of continuing contacts including the highest in the land, not someone in exile at Montecito an ocean away, who sees very few people nowadays.
Andrew does not attend state occasions (coronation exception), unless you wish to include the funerals of his parents.
He does no public duties, does not represent the RF.
 
The reality is, Andrew is probably the only royal who is a real high risk for this sort of thing. Andrew more by his personality and greed.

Anne is still friends with her ex from 50 years ago, I can't imagine she lets anyone new get that close to her and can't imagine her suddenly striking up even a businesslike friendship with anyone. Likewise, Edward and Sophie, once they ditched their businesses 20 years ago, keep a low profile and don't seem the sort to go out meeting new "contacts" in the way Andrew does.

In this regard, the "working royals" are protected - the most senior by discreet vetting the others by their common sense and probably the fact that they wouldn't really let anyone new as close or as involved in finance as Andrew would and, if they needed to, would probably welcome vetting from the police / security services.

Andrew presents a different problem as he is clearly not a working royals anymore but carries royal titles and has been "cut off" yet his actions also reflect poorly on the Crown and monarchy.

The media are full of suggestions Andrew should "do the right thing" and step back from the Christmas celebrations. I suspect that even if that happens it will be for appearance sakes only i.e. Andrew will attend Christmas at Sandringham but not do the walk to Church. And that IMO is fair enough - family is family and Christmas should be about family. The Times even suggested Fergie may be the one Charles turns to in an attempt to ask as mediator .
 
I am absolutely sure that King Charles is annoyed and frustrated at Andrew’s appalling behaviour and lack of judgement over the years. It’s up to Charles to say what damage Andrew has done to the monarchy over the decades. I don’t expect it, but if Andrew and his so supportive Fergie were to quietly withdraw from the royal family’s celebrations at Sandringham for this Xmas at least, it might be regarded as a blessing. The media will be there absorbing everything on the Xmas morning walk, don’t forget.
I agree the media will be out in force shouting out questions to him. I hope he has the intelligence ( silly word to use )to realise his presence will only inflame the situation, especially when there will be a number of youngsters there.
 
The reality is, Andrew is probably the only royal who is a real high risk for this sort of thing. Andrew more by his personality and greed.

Anne is still friends with her ex from 50 years ago, I can't imagine she lets anyone new get that close to her and can't imagine her suddenly striking up even a businesslike friendship with anyone. Likewise, Edward and Sophie, once they ditched their businesses 20 years ago, keep a low profile and don't seem the sort to go out meeting new "contacts" in the way Andrew does.

In this regard, the "working royals" are protected - the most senior by discreet vetting the others by their common sense and probably the fact that they wouldn't really let anyone new as close or as involved in finance as Andrew would and, if they needed to, would probably welcome vetting from the police / security services.

Andrew presents a different problem as he is clearly not working a royal anymore but carry royal titles and have been "cut off" yet his actions also reflect poorly on the Crown and monarchy (though less so Harry these days as he really has ploughed his own furrow in that regard)

The media are full of suggestions Andrew should "do the right thing" and step back from the Christmas celebrations. I suspect that even if that happens it will be for appearance sakes only i.e. Andrew will attend Christmas at Sandringham but not do the walk to Church. And that IMO is fair enough - family is family and Christmas should be about family.
It is true that we do not really know who are in the true friendship circle of the royals, Anne, Edward William or the King. We know the acquaintances, who they know through their work but not the inner circle who they have in some cases befriended for decades, and the real inner circle do not blab. Andrew should have followed the lead
 
Added for context:



A businessman suspected of being a Chinese spy helped broker a top British private school’s expansion plans in China, The Telegraph can reveal.
A company run by the alleged spy, who became a close confidant of the Duke of York, signed a multi-year partnership with the elite school to open several branches on China’s mainland.
The businessman – currently the subject of a court anonymity order and referred to only as H6 – helped broker the deal at a summit in the UK.
The Telegraph has seen evidence, including photographs and online announcements, linking the British school with the company and spanning several years. One Chinese media report claimed the deal would pump hundreds of millions of pounds into the district around the school’s first overseas campus.

The alleged Chinese spy who became a "close confidant" of Prince Andrew met two prime ministers, photos seen by Sky News show.

The businessman, known as 'H6' for legal reasons, has been pictured alongside former Tory leaders David Cameron and Theresa May.


An alleged spy is behind a lobbying firm with links to China and has gained access to influential figures in Britain including George Osborne and Prince Andrew.
The firm, which cannot be named for legal reasons, was founded by the suspected spy, known as H6, after he spent seven years working for the Chinese government
 
Unfortunately, the whole Andrew As A Pantomime Baddie thing has now reached such proportions that any story about him hits the headlines. As the Hello! article says, there's no indication that Andrew's actually done anything wrong.

I think it would be politic if Andrew stayed away from the walk to church at Sandringham - although, then, the press'll all be reporting on how he wasn't there! Include all the children in the walk, and hope that the press focus on how cute they look!
 
Live: Government faces urgent question on Chinese spying group
 
I believe that Andrew has never gotten over the adulation he received in his youth; really, hard as it is to think about now, he was almost regarded as having rock-star status.
(Another reason popularity should be discounted when it comes to royalty).
 
The press are now reporting that Andrew won't be going to Sandringham for Christmas.

I really don't know what's to be done with him. He just attracts trouble. And all this is diverting attention from the issue of how great a threat to British security Chinese spying could be.
 
Beatrice and Eugenie will reportedly be spending Christmas with their respective in-laws, which gets them out of an awkward situation, and I suppose is only fair to the other side of each family anyway. I feel rather sorry for Sarah, who will presumably be stuck at Royal Lodge with Andrew on Christmas Day ... watching rubbish TV ...
 
How bad is this?
Andrew surely isn't the only one who has been foolish enough to chat/talk/interact with a Chinese agent.
So from a legal point of view: How bad is this?
From a BRF point of view, in regards to their image, how bad is this?
And from the point of view of Andrew himself both in regards to his image but also in regards to the rest of the BRF, how bad is this?

It's my impression that Andrew after the death of QEII has been pretty much put on grass anyway, so does this latest blunder of his really make that big a difference?
 
How bad is this?
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The question is maybe ‘how bad will this get’. Depends on the sort of alleged spying, probably. There is a chance more news cycles happen and everything blows over. Or this gets worse. I imagine Charles, William and Co. are doing the calculus, right now.
 
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I’m not a defender of Andrew at all. But I do think there are others who have been caught up by the same person, and indeed others like him, who don’t seem to be the focus of the media attention. That seems to be largely because Andrew is the one the alleged spy himself said he was close to and who there is evidence of testaments from those working for Andrew saying how close he was to him. So, I certainly don’t believe Andrew will be the only one caught up in this, but I suspect by the time others are revealed this story will have had its 5 minutes and we’ll have moved on. In that regard I feel for him a little. However, it is a mess of his making as most other people would avoid being close to a stranger or someone they have met only through work a few times, especially when they are a member of the RF. For that (and a great many other things) he is stupid.
 
We don't really know what's happened, or allegedly happened. The alleged spy allegedly "attempted to leverage Prince Andrew's influence". I'm not even sure what "influence" Andrew is supposed to have. He hardly has access to state secrets.

It's reported that notes were found on his mobile phone saying:

It states: "IMPORTANT: Manage expectations. Really important to not set 'too high' expectations - he [Andrew] is in a desperate situation and will grab onto anything."


However, there's no suggestion that Andrew told him anything inappropriate, or helped him to gain access to anything inappropriate. But he should have had more sense than to be in close contact with this man at all. And anything involving Andrew hits the headlines. If a Member of Parliament had allegedly been involved instead, there wouldn't be half this much attention being paid to the story.
 
I mean it’s not like Andrew (who is universally acknowledged as not being the sharpest tool in the box to begin with) was supposed to be able to determine the guy was a spy and have nothing to do with him, even if he was intelligent and perceptive and had better judgment… Doesn’t MI5 or someone whose actual job it is to keep spies along with other unsavory and dangerous people away bear some responsibility here?

One of the articles above mentions George Osborne, so it’s not just Andrew. It’s just bad optics.
 
Yes, I suspect Andrew is once again proving to be a "useful idiot" by taking centre stage right now whilst there are any others who were just as taken in. I read the same person paid for flights for the late Lord Prescott, former Labour Deputy PM, to travel to China.
And of course, all the focus on Andrew is taking away the fact that the intelligence services failed to spot a 'Chinese spy' for long enough for him to become friendly with the then Sovereign's son.
Yes Andrew is massively at fault for being naive, trusting and much more...but likewise the intelligence services share a certain amount of the blame.
 
While Andrew is an easy scapegoat, this Chinese man moved to the UK in 2002 and was only discovered in 2021; so while it seems unknown if he was recruited from the start or maybe at a later point in time, he had about 2 decades to meet top officials including prime ministers.
 
Why is Andrew to be regarded as any kind of scapegoat? Presumably he wasn’t threatened or forced by British Government officials to treat this Chinese man as a ‘close confidante’. Presumably nobody insisted against Andrew’s better judgement that he invite to and show this man around BP and Windsor, or suggest he get money for his living expenses via him from eager Chinese sources.

Andrew did all that, and probably more, of his own free will. He wasn’t naive, IMO. He was, as always, alive to the possibilities of getting money for himself and Sarah, whether from nefarious sources or not, as we saw with the Epstein loan to Fergie (and who knows whether he himself received money gifts or loans from that shady multi-millionaire.)

Let’s not forget that for many, many, years several broadsheet newspapers in Britain tried to access how Andrew was maintaining his lifestyle on supposedly modest yearly allowance.

Andrew was vulnerable to all sorts of offers and suggestions from ‘friends’ purely and simply because of greed. That’s not naivety or being a scapegoat (which surely involves being held responsible for others’ crimes and misdemeanours while you yourself have been trapped.)
 
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Quite right, Curryong. The Yorks have had experience with friendly and helpful Chinese nationals. A few years ago, Sarah "accepted" at least 500,000 pounds from a gregarious Chinese investor named Dr. Johnny Hon who also, by coincidence, was associated with the 48 Group Club, which also claims alleged spy Yang Tangbo as a member.

Tony Blair and Peter Mandelson are listed on the 48 Group Club site in some big-shot category. And Mandelson wants to be the UK ambassador to the US. HA! This is precisely why the Chinese government apparatchiks come to our countries and mooch for decades. Maybe they got Mandy. He was an Epstein/Andrew friend.

But I digress.

I am a bit on Andrew's side here. If there was a competition between Andrew and HM The King as to who has had the worst compilation of unsavory friends and detestable staff members, The King wins.
 
When I logged in YouTube this morning, this scandal was all over the news already. I first gave him the benefit of the doubt and then remembered it was Prince Andrew the one involved in the throne room scandal where celebrities accessed and sat on the Queen's throne. Andrew was part of the party and as the senior royal present the one to control the Epstein and pals crew in those rooms.

He needs to be removed from Frogmore, put in a house in Faroe Islands and stay there watching seagulls.
 
Unfortunately, the whole Andrew As A Pantomime Baddie

Yep, there are other big names involved, from politics. But while we can perhaps surely assume, these political adventurers, which make a living by stirring up people, are of questionable morals... - Prince Andrew is still a Royal! And the Royals are often already there since centuries. Impossible for corruptnics! (One would think...)

I'm not even sure what "influence" Andrew is supposed to have. He hardly has access to state secrets.

I was thinking about this too. And I wonder what would happen, if Prince Andrew wrote a letter to his good friend Bill (Clinton or Gates), which reads like this:

"Dear Bill! How are you, how is your family? Do you remember the good times we had and the fine memories we share? It was simply wonderful back then on the private island of our common und tragically deceased friend!

I remember, you were very much interested in new technology. Hereby I can offer you to invest 20 mln of your nice Amercian Dollars in a fine start-up. It works on AI and is situated on the Bahamas."

And if this start-up then goes bankrupt and all the money has disappeared, who could ask questions? Things happen! :angel:
 
An unlikely defender for Andrew…Emily Matlis


Having effectively destroyed Andrew’s royal career with her infamous Panorama interview, Emily Maitlis now defends him over the Chinese spy furore.

‘I don’t understand why this is laid at the door of the prince with so much castigation and so much blame,’ she announces.

‘If he’s guilty of something, it’s definitely naivety. But when I read all this stuff that he’s not allowed to walk to church, he’s not allowed to be with the Royal Family... I don’t understand what the actual crime is here, frankly.’

Might home-alone Andy clutch a Royal Lodge Christmas cracker in the hope that newly supportive Emily passes by?
 
Like Tom Utley, I am starting to feel sympathy for Andrew.
He's arrogant and dense, but he has never been disloyal to his family, and shouldn't be turned into a pariah this way. JMO.
 
I'm inclined to agree. Andrew is an idiot, but a lot of people in public life have done far worse, and none of them are being forced to miss spending Christmas with their families, with the press drivelling on about how "Andrew may never be seen with the rest of the Royal Family again". If we're looking at the Establishment, all the major political parties have been involved in one "sleaze" incident after another, a senior BBC newsreader's recently been convicted of making indecent images of children, and the Archbishop of Canterbury's just resigned over his failure to investigate child abuse allegations.

I'm not sure that it'd be a good idea for him to take part in the walk to church, but surely he could join the rest of the family for Christmas dinner.
 
Like Tom Utley, I am starting to feel sympathy for Andrew.
He's arrogant and dense, but he has never been disloyal to his family, and shouldn't be turned into a pariah this way. JMO.
He wasn't disloyal because he loves the life and being who he is, there was never any reason for him to be disloyal.
 
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