Possible Dukedom for Harry and Meghan

[Denville]

Being a red head, it might work. He is the most Irish looking since Henry VIII. Coincidence?

What does that mean? Henry VIII wasn't Irish and neither is Harry...
and I can't understand why people keep suggesting things in the Irish republic as titles....

 

[FashionMaven]

Right, and I still like the ring of Windsor. ? But as I already responded to the initial poster @FashionMaven, "there is too recent an association with Edward VIII (David)," who as we all know (because it's impossible for it to recede from memory that quickly): "abandoned his duty to his family and country." Added to this serious drawback is the fact that David had numerous character flaws and he would not have been the right person to serve as King of Great Britain during WWII. Even before he died, King George V was worried about his son David inheriting the throne.

Again, @cmsteepy made a good case for Clarence. We will definitely find out. For the poll, it looks like Sussex is winning over Clarence by about half (nonscientific).

Well, I voted for Sussex before I knew more about Clarence, so now I'm firmly hoping for Clarence. The title deserves a resurgence!!

Plus the ancestral connection to Meghan and Harry is just so *kisses fingers*...

 

[Furienna]

Well, I voted for Sussex before I knew more about Clarence, so now I'm firmly hoping for Clarence. The title deserves a resurgence!!

Plus the ancestral connection to Meghan and Harry is just so *kisses fingers*...

Sussex has been unused since 1843. Clarence has been used more recently (until 1892).

 

[Elly C]

Forgive me if this has already been covered somewhere earlier in this thread (it's a very long thread to search through), but is there any reliable information about how the decision of a particular dukedom made - how much of a say would the recipient have, apart from the Queen would Charles and William as future monarchs be involved? Would I be right in assuming there are some 'anonymous' constitution advisors?

 

[carlota]

i don't think they will choose clarence given it is quite similar to 'cambridge' so that the media and the public don't get too confused.

something like sussex or hereford doesn't sound unreasonable. maybe it is even an option that they get an earldom?

how about lancaster, somerset, exeter?

 

[RoyalHeiress]

I dont think Clarance would be that confusing, plus the Wales ladies can be the Duchesses of C ??

I would think Sussex would be more easily confused with Wessex, than Clarence and Cambridge

 

[Pranter]

Forgive me if this has already been covered somewhere earlier in this thread (it's a very long thread to search through), but is there any reliable information about how the decision of a particular dukedom made - how much of a say would the recipient have, apart from the Queen would Charles and William as future monarchs be involved? Would I be right in assuming there are some 'anonymous' constitution advisors?

Based on what I've seen here, it's totally up to the Queen. We don't know if she asked/asks them (William/Harry etc) for their input/views about a title beforehand or not.


LaRae

 

[Stefan]

Based on what I've seen here, it's totally up to the Queen. We don't know if she asked/asks them (William/Harry etc) for their input/views about a title beforehand or not.


LaRae

But on the other hand is was Edward's wish to became Earl of Wessex as far as we know. And also the decision that he once will become Duke of Edinbrgh was noit a decision taken by the Queen alone as Charles has agrred to creathe Edward Duke Eindburgh when ti is availible again.

 

[Osipi]

i don't think they will choose clarence given it is quite similar to 'cambridge' so that the media and the public don't get too confused.

something like sussex or hereford doesn't sound unreasonable. maybe it is even an option that they get an earldom?

how about lancaster, somerset, exeter?

Lancaster is definitely out of the question. There is only one person that can ever be the Duke of Lancaster and that is the monarch. Right now, Queen Elizabeth II holds the title of Duke of Lancaster and it is from that duchy that she receives her personal funds.

 

[Denville]

But on the other hand is was Edward's wish to became Earl of Wessex as far as we know. And also the decision that he once will become Duke of Edinbrgh was noit a decision taken by the Queen alone as Charles has agrred to creathe Edward Duke Eindburgh when ti is availible again.

Im sure Charles understood the queen's reasons for wanting Edinburgh to go to one of Philip's sons and saw the propriety of agreeing as I suppose he has, to create Edward Duke of Ed in time.
I have heard it said that Edward wanted earl of Wessex because he saw it in a movie.. I hope that's not true.
I think that the queen decides perhaps with input from courtiers or other members of the family and it is HER decision.

 

[Furienna]

I have heard it said that Edward wanted earl of Wessex because he saw it in a movie.. I hope that's not true.

It seems to be derived from a character in the movie "Shakespeare in love".

 

[Denville]

So it is said. I hope he' isn't so foolish, as to want to take his title from a film..... It was an unsuaual title, but will be I suppose superceded by the DoE one.

 

[Mbruno]

Do all male children of the Prince of Wales necessarily get a dukedom ? Isn't it possible that Harry might get only an earldom instead ?

 

[Iluvbertie]

i don't think they will choose clarence given it is quite similar to 'cambridge' so that the media and the public don't get too confused.

something like sussex or hereford doesn't sound unreasonable. maybe it is even an option that they get an earldom?

how about lancaster, somerset, exeter?

Current Duke of Lancaster won't give that title to her grandson. There are around 4000 in the line of succession to that title with Harry currently 5th in line and soon to drop to 6th.

Exeter is an extant Marquisate held by the 8th Marquis with living heirs.

Somerset is an extant Dukedom with the current 19th Duke having living heirs. The heir apparent is the same age as William.

Many of the suggested titles are actually still extant and so unavailable.

The following dukedoms are currently extant - or have a holder:

Lancaster
Cornwall
Norfolk
Somerset
Richmond
Grafton
Beufort
St Albans
Bedford
Devonshire
Marlborough
Rutland
Rothesay
Hamilton
Buccleah and Queensberry
Lennox
Argyll
Athol
Montrose
Roxburghe
Brandon
Manchester
Northumberland
Leinster
Abercorn
Wellington
Sutherland
Gordon
Fife
Gloucester
Kent
Edinburgh
York
Cambridge

There are only two of these dukedoms without heirs - York and Westminster.

We also have to throw in Cumberland and Teviotdale and Albany due to the Titles Deprivations Act these aren't in use but still have legal claimants.

Titles held as Marquisates

Winchester
Huntley
Queensberry
Tweedale
Lothian
Lansdowne
Townshend
Salisbury
Bath
Hertford
Bute
Waterford
Downshire
Donegall
Headford
Sligo
Ely
Exeter
Northampton
Camden
Anglesey
Cholmondeley
Londonderry
Conyngham
Ailsbury
Bristol
Ailsa
Normanby
Abervegenny
Zetland
Linlithgow
Aberdeen and Temair
Milford Haven
Reading

Earldoms

There are well over 100 existing earldoms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earls_in_the_peerages_of_Britain_and_Ireland

 

[Denville]

Do all male children of the Prince of Wales necessarily get a dukedom ? Isn't it possible that Harry might get only an earldom instead ?

They've always been given a dukedom before, so I would feel it is unlikely that Harry will be given anything less....

 

[Iluvbertie]

Do all male children of the Prince of Wales necessarily get a dukedom ? Isn't it possible that Harry might get only an earldom instead ?

Prior to 1999 I would have said no way would the grandson of the monarch, through the Prince of Wales, only get an Earldom but that was before the son of the monarch was only given an Earldom.

The precedent is there for the Queen to give Harry an Earldom now and leave it until he is the son of the King to be given a Dukedom - along similar lines to what is to happen with Edward - presumably.

I would expect him to get a Dukedom but then I expected Edward to get one.

 

[Pranter]

But Edward has a different situation ...if the Queen/Phillip/Charles (I presume Charles might of been included) planned this out then she knew at some point he would become the DoE after his father passes. So being an Earl for a few years isn't such a big deal.

LaRae

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Prior to 1999 I would have said no way would the grandson of the monarch, through the Prince of Wales, only get an Earldom but that was before the son of the monarch was only given an Earldom.

The precedent is there for the Queen to give Harry an Earldom now and leave it until he is the son of the King to be given a Dukedom - along similar lines to what is to happen with Edward - presumably.

I would expect him to get a Dukedom but then I expected Edward to get one.

It is apples and oranges to compare. Entirely different situations
Edward will get a Dukedom and we already know which one he will get--he will get his father's eventually, so it stays with the family.
Charles doesn't have a title that will merge with the Crown that he can give Harry after he becomes King.

It seems to be derived from a character in the movie "Shakespeare in love".

So it is said. I hope he' isn't so foolish, as to want to take his title from a film..... It was an unsuaual title, but will be I suppose superceded by the DoE one.

That was from an ignorant tabloid. It is actually a very old title.

ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WessexWessex was an Anglo-Saxon kingdom in the south of Great Britain, from 519 until England was unified by Æthelstan in the early 10th century.

 

[Mbruno]

If we look back at precedent, Prince Albert Victor was given a dukedom as the eldest son of the PoW, but his younger brother, the future King George V only became Duke of York after Albert Victor had passed if I am not mistaken,

It seems to me then that dukedoms are the norm for sons of the monarch and for the eldest living son of the PoW, but not necessarily for younger sons of the PoW,

If Harry gets an earldom now, he may be given another available dukedom when Charles becomes king,.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

When did George III's son's get their dukedoms, from their father or grandfather?

A precedent/tradition is difficult to determine. Adult sons of a Prince of Wales have not occurred very often.

 

[wyevale]

Since Harry may be the Kings Son within a few years, it seems absurd to make him change Titles twice in a short period... just give him Sussex on his wedding day, and 'there's an end to it', no need to faff about.

 

[W.Y.CII]

Since Harry may be the Kings Son within a few years, it seems absurd to make him change Titles twice in a short period... just give him Sussex on his wedding day, and 'there's an end to it', no need to faff about.

Why does he have to change title after Charles becomes king?

 

[wyevale]

^ I refer you to post #500

 

[Lady Nimue]

Based on what I've seen here, it's totally up to the Queen. We don't know if she asked/asks them (William/Harry etc) for their input/views about a title beforehand or not. LaRae

That may be how it is on paper. But I can't imagine a scenario (with this Queen) where she ignores the wishes of the recipient. After all, it is a title the recipient will be dealing with for the rest of their lives, even unto their children. For sure (I would think) Harry would be consulted and approve the title along with the Queen, Charles and William (I guess now).

It seems to me that Sussex has been bandied about for a long time as Harry's future title. Though I think William choosing Cambridge was a surprise to most people, not so? It's possible Harry will surprise, too, maybe with Clarence.

P.S. It occurs to me that if the Cambridge baby is another boy, then consideration of his future title might come into play.

 

[HRHDuchessofAlbany]

I want the Duke and Duchess of Albany. Because I'm from New York haha. I honestly see it as either Sussex or Albany, now Albany may be an issue because the current head of Saxe Coburg and Gotha is technically the Duke of Albany. It would be nice to see a title that hasn't been used in forever such as the Duke of Ross (not used since the 1500s). There a huge feeling that Harry will be made a Earl of Iverness so that he gets the Duchy of York upon the death of Prince Andrew since Beatrice nor Eugenie can take the title. However it will sound wierd if he has daughters and there are multiple Princesses of York.

 

[Pranter]

I didn't think Inverness was even a possibility.


LaRae

 

[Iluvbertie]

The Albany title is unavailable until it goes extinct and there are many heirs in the line of succession to that title. The Titles Deprivation Act is very clear - all future descendants in the male line of the Albany and Cumberland titles have the right to petition for its return and until there are no heirs they are not available for regrant. No 'technically' about it. He is the holder of the title and no one else can hold it while there are heirs.

Harry can't be the Earl of Inverness as Andrew already holds that title and you can't have two people with the exact same title. Andrew has three titles - York, Inverness and Killyleagh - just as William has three - Cambridge, Strathearn and Carrickfergus and Philip has Edinburgh, Merioneth and Greenwich. These are substantive titles and belong to that person. Andrew used to use Inverness when visiting Scotland - as Charles uses Rothesay and William uses Strathearn today but around 2007 he just used York wherever he was.

Maybe some of the confusion that you have is that the heirs to both Gloucester and Kent are 'earls' or 'barons' with the same titles as ones their fathers/grandfathers but ... the reality in these situations is that both the Dukes of Gloucester and Kent were given three titles - Gloucester, Ulster and Culloden and Kent, St Andrews and Downpatrick. As their sons aren't HRHs they are allowed, as a courtesy only, to use their father's second titles to show that they are the actual heirs apparent and their sons use the third title to show they are their grandfathers' heirs apparent heirs apparent. It is the same as Edward's son using his second title - Severn - as a courtesy title or Charles Armstrong-Jones using Viscount Linley.

I doubt that they would suggest that Harry eventually might get York for a number of reasons:

1. Andrew could easily live as long as his parents meaning Harry would have to wait around 30+ years for the Dukedom (If Andrew was to live to be as old as his father he will have another 40 years)

2. Andrew could always remarry a younger woman and have a son - has been known to happen e.g. Prince Albert of Monaco wasn't a lot younger than Andrew when he married - even in his 90s that isn't impossible

3. There is a quiet push amongst a number of women for equal inheritance laws for titles - meaning Beatrice could legally be able to inherit York (or the Queen could issue new LPs recreating the Duke of York for Andrew to allow Beatrice to inherit - maybe as a wedding present for Beatrice - who knows)

 

[Countessmeout]

I want the Duke and Duchess of Albany. Because I'm from New York haha. I honestly see it as either Sussex or Albany, now Albany may be an issue because the current head of Saxe Coburg and Gotha is technically the Duke of Albany. It would be nice to see a title that hasn't been used in forever such as the Duke of Ross (not used since the 1500s). There a huge feeling that Harry will be made a Earl of Iverness so that he gets the Duchy of York upon the death of Prince Andrew since Beatrice nor Eugenie can take the title. However it will sound wierd if he has daughters and there are multiple Princesses of York.

Albany cant happen. As you stated, it isn't extinct, its simply suspended. There are 13 heirs and counting to the title.

As for Inverness.... there is no talk. There have been some who suggested he may be made an earl, until his Uncle dies (which seems quite morbid). But not earl of inverness. There is already an Earl of Inverness, Andrew. 'Earl of Inverness' is not a title of the heir of the Duke of York. It is a separate title, a subsidiary/secondary title of Andrew's. If Andrew was stripped of his earldom and it was given to Harry, that wouldn't make him the heir to his Uncle. Titles don't work that way. York will become extinct upon Andrew's death (if he has no sons) at which point it can be re-created. Considering Andrew is likely to live another 30 years or more, it is more likely to be bestowed upon a second son of William, which would be more fitting as that child would be second son of the monarch.

But as stated by others, I don't even see baby 3 being Duke of York considering Andrew's age.

 

[jacqui24]

I can see Charlotte becoming a duchess when she marries. Just like the #3 will be a duke or duchess as well. I don't see Charles or William denying the spares that title.

William and Harry's kids will all be working royals because it is just the two of them. I suspect Charles has a great chance of reigning well into his 90s like his parents. So that means by the time William take over he will be in his 50s and his kids will be early 20s.

That means William, Kate, and their three kids? Nah. Harry, Meghan and their kids will quite busy as well.

I honestly don’t think Meghan and Harry’s kids would. And I can see Meghan and Harry doing everything they can to shield them from that. They can still do good and make a difference without all the scrutiny. I think they’d be able to carve their own future and life. I’m still leaning towards no LP being issued to make them HRH at the time of the birth if HMQ is still alive. I’m not sure how they would be handled upon Charles ascending to the throne. They might see it as bad timing for an announcement like it was done for Wessex children with the mourning, state funeral, coronation going on. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s announced at the time of the birth, if HMQ is still living, that they’d always be known as children of a Duke though.

 

[ACO]

I will be surprised if they don't have titles. I really would. It was easier for HM's kids to deny it because she had 4 children she knew would still be working royals. She is 91 years old and that hasn't changed. That is not the same for Charles. He doesn't have the strength in numbers. And neither will William. Harry will want his kids to have a normal of a life as possible but he also respects his position and his family. I suspect he will find a compromise.