Moroccan Royal Names and Titles


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Originally posted by bjanka66@May 30th, 2004 - 7:04 am
IS her title the Queen? ,or first lady?? :unsure:
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She's the actual moroccan king's wife,so she's the first lady of morocco,and she holds "princess" as title,since in morocco,she couldn't get the title of "queen" because she doesn't managing the country,the same like prince consort of Great-Britain,he has as title "prince" because he's the queen's wife,and he couldn't have as title "king" ;)
 
She's the actual moroccan king's wife,so she's the first lady of morocco,and she holds "princess" as title,since in morocco,she couldn't get the title of "queen" because she doesn't managing the country,the same like prince consort of Great-Britain,he has as title "prince" because he's the queen's wife,and he couldn't have as title "king" ;)
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Before Lalla Salma the king's wife had the great title of 'Mother of the Princes'. She wasn't even a princess. M6 made his wife a princess to break the mold and allow his wife to have a title & identity. It's part of M6's campaign to bring his country to the forefront -men and women together.
 
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I have read in this thread that Salma doesn't have title queen then I have a question : How does Moroccan called/refer their King's wife in formal event (as we called Madame President for president wife). Is Lalla Salma referred as Lala Salma (princess Salma) the first lady of morocco or Lala salma the wife of King of marocco or just Lala Salma (without telling her position) or do they have any special reffering title for her for formal events?.
If she is just referred as Lala Salma, it will be difficult for somebody who doesn't know well this family (let say: the foreigner guests who attend the same event) to recognise which one is the king's wife, especially since King's sisters (who have the same title with Salma) often attend many formal events with the king and his wife. Thanks.
 
galuhcandrakirana said:
I have read in this thread that Salma doesn't have title queen then I have a question : How does Moroccan called/refer their King's wife in formal event (as we called Madame President for president wife). Is Lalla Salma referred as Lala Salma (princess Salma) the first lady of morocco or Lala salma the wife of King of marocco or just Lala Salma (without telling her position) or do they have any special reffering title for her for formal events?.
If she is just referred as Lala Salma, it will be difficult for somebody who doesn't know well this family (let say: the foreigner guests who attend the same event) to recognise which one is the king's wife, especially since King's sisters (who have the same title with Salma) often attend many formal events with the king and his wife. Thanks.
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People usually refer to her as Princess Lalla Salma (formal speeches as in news on TV and newspapers) or Lalla Salma (informal when talking to friends and family about the princess). All Moroccans know who she :).
In the same way, they refer to the kings siblings by Princess Lalla Maryem, Princess Lalla Asame, Princess Lalla Hasnae. Nobody ever says : Princess Lalla XXX sister of King Mohamed VI. The link is obvious.
Members of the royal family are very known in Morocco and diplomats attendign official events and ceremonies definitely know who they are.
 
If this has been asked please forgive the repeat. But

why isn't Princess Lalla Queen Lalla?
 
Queenie said:
why isn't Princess Lalla Queen Lalla?
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A moroccan King is a king that rules. He is the head of the state. As such two people can't have the same title. It would be like giving Mrs Bush, the title of president.
 
Layla27 said:
A moroccan King is a king that rules. He is the head of the state. As such two people can't have the same title. It would be like giving Mrs Bush, the title of president.
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actually I think the answer to Queenie's question isnt that simple.
There are many countries where the wife of the monarch is called Queen (Jordan, Norway, Sweden, Spain, Brunei etc). And everyone knows that those women do not share their husband's authority, they are however "Queen consorts."
Now the same isnt true if a woman is the monarch, like the queens of Great Britain, Denmark, Netherlands. The husbands of these women aren't King but "Prince consorts"
Though centuries ago when a European female monarch married her husband was called King. But that was a different time.
Back to Lalla Salma. I dont see why being called Queen would mean that she is sharing her husband's title, it seems to work fine in other countries.
But then maybe in Morocco it doesnt work that way.
 
~*~Humera~*~ said:
actually I think the answer to Queenie's question isnt that simple.
There are many countries where the wife of the monarch is called Queen (Jordan, Norway, Sweden, Spain, Brunei etc). And everyone knows that those women do not share their husband's authority, they are however "Queen consorts."
Now the same isnt true if a woman is the monarch, like the queens of Great Britain, Denmark, Netherlands. The husbands of these women aren't King but "Prince consorts"
Though centuries ago when a European female monarch married her husband was called King. But that was a different time.
Back to Lalla Salma. I dont see why being called Queen would mean that she is sharing her husband's title, it seems to work fine in other countries.
But then maybe in Morocco it doesnt work that way.
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That means the moroccan constitution needs to be modified to introduce the position of "consort queen" :cool: .
 
So is P. Lalla the wife of the King and why is she not called a Queen? anyone know, I'm confused.
 
cause the king of morocco sad in a interviuew that in the islam a woman can not rule and can not care a name as Queen...

thats why he gave her the titel of princess
 
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Interesting because the Jordanians have a Queen and they are Muslims. A Queen consort does not rule.

Has there ever been a Queen of Morocco?
 
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Frothy said:
So is P. Lalla the wife of the King and why is she not called a Queen? anyone know, I'm confused.
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Because the moroccan constitution doesn't allow the existence of a queen.

Frothy said:
Has there ever been a Queen of Morocco?
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No never. The culture and traditions of the country don't allow it.
 
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Layla27 said:
Because the moroccan constitution doesn't allow the existence of a queen.
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The constituion has nothing to do with. It's the usage.

Layla27 said:
No never. The culture and traditions of the country don't allow it.
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Wrong. Maybe you should read a book by a famous moroccan writer on muslims queens, even in Morocco, before the Alawite dinasty.
 
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khadijalove said:
cause the king of morocco sad in a interviuew that in the islam a woman can not rule and can not care a name as Queen...
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Did King Muhammad say that?
Im surprised because that is an absolutely false claim.
The King can speak for Morocco if he likes but he shouldnt make such claims on behalf of the entire Muslim population. All one needs is to read up on Islamic history and they'll find Muslim Queens.
As for Queen consorts, there are many of them today. Morocco is an exception.
 
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I remember reading this particular interview, he exactly said "...there is no queen in islam"
Were there muslim queens by the way?
 
amina1 said:
I remember reading this particular interview, he exactly said "...there is no queen in islam"
Were there muslim queens by the way?
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yes there were...that's what some other members and myself have said in previous posts

"The Forgotten Queens of Islam"
http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0816624399/qid=1119998699/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_0_1/701-9328543-2872338

The King doesn't come across to me as a particularly intellectual type. So im not surprised he made a comment like that, eventhough nothing in the Quran, teachings of the Prophet, or Islamic history, supports his claim.
When Benzir Bhutto became the first female head of state of an Islamic country in the 1980s, some people made the same ridiculous claim. And yet she was elected twice and was the country's most popular Prime Minister.
Infact the developing world (including the Muslim nations of Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia)has had more female heads of state than many developed/western nations.
King Muhammad seems to be ignoring both history and the present. I'll try not to be too disappointed:rolleyes:
 
I think Humera you didn't understund what king MVI was meaning,yes in Islam the women are not allowed to rule,you can recall the scandal made the woman Imam from USA recently,and ruling is not a question of royalty only,since the king in morocco is a "Amir Mumeneen" or "Prince of believers"who should be ruler,Imam...,it's a problem for a woman to carry some of those fonctions in Islam as i know.


IMO,it comes across a illogic thing because even royalty is not a way of ruling, if it backs up on islam,the prophet Mohammed said in his last days to make a "shura" between muslims to select their ruler,so the model of republics is more appropriate for that,but things didn't go as it should be,and the islamic world went throught such as royalties and denasties!,especially those who claim being descendent of prophet,like the MRF and the JRF...

Well, now,I can't blame KMVI being a royal or a king,since he's following only what it was done before,but it seems that he's only avoiding the question,towards the heavy moroccan royal protocol,IMO,he could name his wife a queen but without ruling,if she has this title,that's not meaning that she would rule one day,if it was the case,so his older sister princess lalla meryem would be the most concerned woman about this question!

The question of being a "Amir of Mumeneen" of the moroccan monarch is very critisized,so I expect that may change in the future,which could allow the king's wife to take maybe the title of "Queen"!
 
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I understand most of what you're saying Monalisa.
But you fail to recognize there is nothing in the Quran or the prophet's teachings or history that says that a woman cant rule/become head-of-state. Even with Imams and prayer leaders, where does it say that only a man can be one?
It is only tradition and patriarchy that is the reason why people make such claims.
If something is considered unlawful according to Islam, it is explicitly mentioned in the Quran as forbidden. But the Quran cant list every single thing that is lawful, which is why in general, if something is NOT explicitly forbidden in Islam, it is allowed. And thats not my opinion thats the opionion of many Islamic jurists and lawmakers.
And if King Muhammad is only following "tradition" in this matter than it shows a narrowness of mind and thought. There are plenty of acdemics and even Islamic scholars who would disagree with him.

People come up with all sorts of ridculous lists of things that are "forbidden" for women, in some regions women cant vote, drive, go out of the house without a man. But none of that has anything to do with Islam. Its all part of a patriarchal cultural system that uses religion to legitimize its claims and mantain control over its citizens and especially women.

Lalla Salma may not get the title of Queen...but who knows there's still plenty of time and if it still doesn't happen, im sure her son will change things when he becomes King. The world will be a very different place by then.
 
~*~Humera~*~ said:
I understand most of what you're saying Monalisa.
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~*~Humera~*~ said:
But you fail to recognize there is nothing in the Quran or the prophet's teachings or history that says that a woman cant rule/become head-of-state. QUOTE]

I agree, nothing in Quran says that woman can't rule,in the opposit ,the history shows that women are more diplomatic.If we talk again about the islamic History,women took a great part in it,Khadija prophet's wife,who was called "Um almumeneen",had her word to say in the way of ruling muslims,and it was very respected and accepted then,later there was "Aesha" and many other women which we can quote to show that the muslim women were very involved in the political and social life since the beginning of islam 15 centuries ago,which was very "avant-garde"for the women rights, comparing to what it was done otherwise,or maybe what's still done in some countries,especially ME one which are muslim,but by surprise even don't allow women to vote:confused: !


~*~Humera~*~ said:
Even with Imams and prayer leaders, where does it say that only a man can be one?
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~*~Humera~*~ said:
It is only tradition and patriarchy that is the reason why people make such claims.
QUOTE]


I can't agree here,since it's logic that a woman is not always available or disponible to lead prayers since she's considered "not pure" when she has her period,and a Imam or prayers' leader should be pure always at least during his fonctions!;)
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What does Lalla means? I did a quick search and found only the english name versions. Is it a form of title in Morroco?
 
hilal said:
"Lalla" means "Lady" in english.

And more information:
http://www.4dw.net/royalark/Morocco/morocco.htm
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Thanks! that explains a lot :) So Lalla Salma is actually Lady Salma.

from above link:

STYLES & TITLES:
The Sovereign: King of Morocco, and Amir al-Mu'minin, with the style of His Majesty.
The consort of the Sovereign: Princess Lalla (personal name), with the styled of Her Royal Highness.
The Heir Apparent: Crown Prince, with the styled of His Royal Highness.
Male members of the Royal family, descendants of Kings in the male line: The other sons of the Sovereign: Prince Mulay (personal name), with the styled of His Royal Highness.
The daughters of the Sovereign: Princess Lalla (personal name), with the styled of Her Royal Highness.
Other male members of the Royal family, descendants of previous rulers in the male line: Prince Mulay (personal name), with the styled of His Highness.
Other female members of the Royal family, descendants of previous rulers in the male line: Princess Lalla (personal name), with the styled of Her Highness.
Other, more distant male members of the Alawi clan: Mulay (personal name) bin (father's personal name) al-Alaoui.
Other, more distant male members of the Alawi clan: Lalla (personal name) bint (father's personal name) al-Alaoui.
 
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Lalla - Traditional Name of Moroccan Princesses?

Is that a name---similar to Maria for the Catholics---given to all Princesses of Arab countries? I've noticed all the Moroccan princesses have it.
 
"Lalla", if memory serves, is an honorific granted to women of high rank or those who have been venerated as saints. I have only the term 'Lalla' used for women of Northern African countries (Morocco and Algiers specifically) but there might be others that I can't remember right off the top of my head.
 
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I believe the same. I read that it is a honorific title. All the King's sisters and his wife have it.
 
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