Monaco's succession issues

[smdouglas]

Thank you SM Douglas. I must have read the pre 2002 article. I apologize it is crystal clear he cannot adopt either one of his illegitimate children.
Hibou thank you as well. It is good to have people like you to learn the facts from.

You're welcome, Odette.

 

[lwbohm]

I guess it depends on the age of the principallity

I suggest you look at my posts (305 & 342) in this thread for the complete answer to your questions. If you think of 2002 as recent, yes, there has been a recent change in the rules of succession.

Thank you.

 

[Next Star]

I think Albert will not marry because he is already 50 yrs.old. I think his sister Caroline will succeed him if she outlives him.I hope that all the members of this princly family take their future duties serious now by preparing themselves as future rulers of Monaco.I do wish that Albert would marry someone who is sutiable and compatiable
and would be a good princess and First Lady to Monaco plus a good wife to him and
be able to produce children an heir and spares and be a goood mother too them also.

 

[Sg1fan]

To sum up, I believe this is what we have, as of August 2008.

Monaco Succession (Legitimate Primogeniture through children and siblings of the current sovereign only.

Prince Albert II, Sovereign Prince of Monaco
Currently no legitimate heirs

Therefore Skipping the following
Alexandre Eric Stéphane Coste (youngest child, illegitimate son of Prince Albert). Albert II could marry his mother and legitimize him but that is highly unlikely.
Jazmin Grace Grimaldi (eldest child and illegitimate daughter of Prince Albert). Due to the circumstances of her birth (her mother was married to another man at the time), marriage to her mother would never legitimize her to ascend the throne.

Official Heirs:
1. HRH Princess Caroline Louise Marguerite, Princess of Hanover, Hereditary Princess (Presumptive) of Monaco (elder sister of Albert II)
2. Andrea Albert Pierre Casiraghi
3. Pierre Rainier Stefano Casiraghi
4. Charlotte Marie Pomeline Casiraghi
5. HRH Princess Alexandra Charlotte Ulrike Maryam Virginia of Hanover
5. HSH Princess Stéphanie Marie Elisabeth of Monaco (youngest sister of Albert II)
6. Louis Robert Paul Ducruet
7. Pauline Grace Maguy Ducruet

Skipping Illegitimate Child of Princess Stephanie
Camille Marie Kelly Gottlieb (youngest child, illegitimate daughter of Princess Stéphanie). The child's last name remains unconfirmed speculation.

Previous heirs to the throne:

Since she is not a child or sibling of the current reigning prince, HSH Princess Antoinette Louise Alberte Suzanne (Baroness de Massy), elder sister of Rainier III (Albert II's father) was removed from the succession upon the accession of her nephew Prince Albert II. Princess Antoinette's children, grandchildren and related progeny were also removed by the same rule.

Succession Scenarios:

Heirs to the throne must be legitimate siblings or children of the current reigning prince.

Should Albert II have legitimate children, they would inherit by Primogeniture (males first, then females in age order). If Prince Albert II's legitimate child inherited the throne, Albert II's sisters Princess Caroline and Princess Stephanie (as well as their children and progeny) would no longer be in line to inherit the throne and only Prince Albert's direct heirs would continue to be eligible.

Should Albert II die without legitimate heirs, Princess Caroline (if alive) would inherit the throne. She could chose (as did their Grandmother Princess Charlotte of Monaco) to decline to ascend and her progeny would inherit by order of primogeniture. Princess Stephanie and her heirs would continue to be heirs to the throne if Princess Caroline ascended and until she died. In that scenario, Princess Stephanie and her proginy would officially lose their place once Princess Caroline passed the throne to her heir through death or by choice.

 

[Naledi]

Monaco Next Rulers ?

Hi,

Who would be the next Reigning Prince(ss) of Monaco, if for one reason or another, the entire present-day Serene Family of Grimaldi were, hypothetically-speaking wiped out by a deadly virus? The current Grimaldi Family includes all the children and grand-children of the late Prince Rainier 3 and her sister, Princess Antoinette .


Thank you.

 

[kimebear]

The current line of succession, by Monaco's revised Constitution of 2002, includes only the legitimate descendants of Ranier and Grace. It currently excludes Antoinette and her family members anyway.

I'm guessing that the next possible line of succession could perhaps come from the descendants of Prince Honore III (1720 - 1795) found here:

Descendants of Prince Honoré III of Monaco

Of couse the constitution would have to be revised yet again to include these possible heirs.

Feel free to correct me.

 

[assia]

Very, very true. But the man is 50 years old. He'd better hurry up, if he wants a legitimate family and children to succeed him.

I would like to raise a question : Prince Albert was brought up knowing that he was heir to the Monaco throne and his education was made up for this function since his early age. Currently, he's not married and not announcing a wedding in the near future so he isn't going to have a legitime heir soon and he's aging, so who is going to be the next heir (I know that Princess Caroline and her children are next on line) but I observe that nobody is really being prepared to that function which needs, IMO, a long training (see in Spain, in Norway, in Sweden, etc...). What do you think about that ? I fear that after Prince Albert, Monaco will not be ruled by the princely family anymore as the rest of the family doesn't look like they want to take the succession, but this is only my opinion and I'm interested in the forum position on this point.

 

[seto]

I don't think Caroline will allow that to happen I think one of her children will take over probably the eldest son. As for training who knows maybe it is happening behind closed doors.

 

[Timea83]

I don't think Caroline will allow that to happen I think one of her children will take over probably the eldest son. As for training who knows maybe it is happening behind closed doors.

I hardly think that Caroline has so much power in Monaco that she can influence her brother. If Albert wants to marry someone he will do. He won't ask Caroline's permission. What can she do against her brother's will? How can she prevent PA from marrying ?
I don't know that it is sure that Albert agreed with his sister on his succession. Albert can live for 30 or 40 years. So many things could happen..In Caroline's case it is too early to speculate about the throne.

 

[Bones]

Well, if Prince Albert marries and has legitimate heirs they will succeed him regardless of anyone's opinion, the law is the law and that's how monarchy works. I'm probably more partial to Princess Caroline taking the job because she's displayed (in my view) such dedication throughout her life. It seems like when Grace died she had to grow up really fast and start filling her shoes (talk about a job!) and so I think she'd be more qualified, she just seems really focused, organized and just "together". Even if Albert II does have legitimate offspring I would still favor Caroline being regent if one was needed when the time came.

 

[olga101]

I would like to raise a question : Prince Albert was brought up knowing that he was heir to the Monaco throne and his education was made up for this function since his early age. Currently, he's not married and not announcing a wedding in the near future so he isn't going to have a legitime heir soon and he's aging, so who is going to be the next heir (I know that Princess Caroline and her children are next on line) but I observe that nobody is really being prepared to that function which needs, IMO, a long training (see in Spain, in Norway, in Sweden, etc...). What do you think about that ? I fear that after Prince Albert, Monaco will not be ruled by the princely family anymore as the rest of the family doesn't look like they want to take the succession, but this is only my opinion and I'm interested in the forum position on this point.

...Nobody being [prepared"..?
In that Vanity Fair article it stated that Andre studies or has studied "Politics and Art". So maybe its him.

I would like to raise a question : Prince Albert was brought up knowing that he was heir to the Monaco throne and his education was made up for this function since his early age. Currently, he's not married and not announcing a wedding in the near future so he isn't going to have a legitime heir soon and he's aging, so who is going to be the next heir (I know that Princess Caroline and her children are next on line) but I observe that nobody is really being prepared to that function which needs, IMO, a long training (see in Spain, in Norway, in Sweden, etc...). What do you think about that ? I fear that after Prince Albert, Monaco will not be ruled by the princely family anymore as the rest of the family doesn't look like they want to take the succession, but this is only my opinion and I'm interested in the forum position on this point.

In the Vanity Fair article it said that Andre is or was studying "Politics and Art". So maybe he's preparing.

 

[Nathalie Cox]

I'm sure this has been asked before, but I can't find any answer: If Albert has no legitime issue, Andrea will most probably take the throne. And if so, he will have to change his surname to Grimaldi and become Andrea Grimaldi, or will he remain his last name and add the dynastic family name and become Andrea Casiraghi - Grimaldi? and his issues? will their children have to be "[put name here] Grimaldi" or "[put name here] Casiraghi - Grimaldi?"

 

[ZUBIAUR]

I think Andrea ,in this case,would be Andrea Grimaldi to follow the dinasty ,as well as his future sons

 

[karola]

If alberto does not marry serious who the inheritor andrea or pierre who pleases mas

If alberto does not marry serious who the inheritor andrea or pierre who pleases ++++

 

[Nathalie Cox]

^ Well Karola, according to monegasque law, If Albert doesn't get married nor having legitimate children, the throne goes to his elder sister Caroline, and she could abdicate in favour of her elder son, Andrea.
The succesion would be:

Albert II
Princess Caroline
Andrea Casiraghi
Pierre Casiraghi
Charlotte Casiraghi
Princess Stephanie
Louis Ducruet
Pauline Ducruet

Alexander and Jazmin Grimaldi are not heirs because they are not legitimate. Stephanie's youngest daughter Camille is ilegitimate too, so she isn't in the line of succesion. And Pierre is before than Charlotte because of the male preference.

 

[karola]

My question is which is favorite andrea or pierre to be an inheritor

 

[Nathalie Cox]

I think Andrea would be the favourite. But then you have differents opinions, some people might like Andrea better or Pierre better.

 

[azure]

And what about Stephanie's children ?

 

[starnightsky]

If Princess Caroline dies before her brother, then what is the chain of succession? Does it go to Princess Stephanie or to Andrea?

 

[hibou]

If Princess Caroline dies before her brother, then what is the chain of succession? Does it go to Princess Stephanie or to Andrea?

Good question!!!! My guess would be Stephanie, but I could be wrong since Andrea is over 21 and a male heir. I am assuming preference is still given to the male heir?

 

[NGalitzine]

Succession is by primogeniture...Caroline and her 4 children and then Stephanie and her first 2 children (Camille is not in the line of succession). Only legitimate children may succeed so Camille could only enter the line if Stephanie were to marry the father. In the event a minor were to succeed to the throne a Regent would need to be appointed. Rainer made Grace the Regent should Albert have succeeded as a minor.

 

[oxygen]

If Princess Caroline dies before her brother, then what is the chain of succession? Does it go to Princess Stephanie or to Andrea?

Andrea for he is in line after his mother.

 

[texankitcat]

Line of Succession Monegasque throne

The fact that Prince Albert is in his 50's and has yet to produce a legitimate heir to the throne of Monaco, I have wondered what will happen to the line of succession. According to the line of succession below, the throne would pass to Caroline and then to her children should Albert pass prior to producing an heir. Of course now that Albert is to be married to Charlene next year, any children resulting from the marriage would be in direct line to the throne.

Albert will be 53 when he weds Charlene. Providing Charlene becomes pregnant within a year or two after their marriage, Albert would be 55 or 56 before he produces a legitimate heir. That is rather old to start a family when you are a Reining Prince. Taking this into consideration, if he were to pass before his heir was old enough or matue enough to take over the throne, and if Caroline were to also pass prior to that time, would it then pass to Caroline's eldest son (currently #2) until the legitimate heir is of age?









Current Monarch: Albert II

1. HRH The Princess of Hanover, Hereditary Princess of Monaco, elder sister of the Prince
2. Andrea Casiraghi, elder son of the Princess of Hanover and Stefano Casiraghi
3. Pierre Casiraghi, younger son of the Princess of Hanover and Stefano Casiraghi
4. Charlotte Casiraghi, daughter of the Princess of Hanover and Stefano Casiraghi
5. HRH Princess Alexandra of Hanover, daughter of the Prince and Princess of Hanover
6. HSH Princess Stéphanie of Monaco, younger sister of the Prince
7. Louis Ducruet, son of Princess Stéphanie and Daniel Ducruet
8. Pauline Ducruet, daughter of Princess Stéphanie and Daniel Ducruet

All of the above would be moved down the list if Albert II were to father a legitimate child.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Of course now that Albert is to be married to Charlotte next year, any children resulting from the marriage would be in direct line to the throne.

Albert will be 53 when he weds Charlotte. Providing Charlotte becomes pregnant within a year or two after their marriage,

He's marrying Charlene Wittstock, not Charlotte Wittstock.

 

[Stefan]

The fact that Prince Albert is in his 50's and has yet to produce a ligitimate heir to the throne of Monaco, I have wondered what will happen to the line of succession. According to the line of succession below, the throne would pass to Caroline and then to her children should Albert pass prior to producing an heir. Of course now that Albert is to be married to Charlotte next year, any children resulting from the marriage would be in direct line to the throne.

Albert will be 53 when he weds Charlotte. Providing Charlotte becomes pregnant within a year or two after their marriage, Albert would be 55 or 56 before he produces a legitimate heir. That is rather old to start a family when you are a Reining Prince. Taking this into consideration, if he were to pass before his heir was old enough or matue enough to take over the throne, and if Caroline were to also pass prior to that time, would it then pass to Caroline's eldest son (currently #2) until the legitimate heir is of age?






Current Monarch: Albert II

1. HRH The Princess of Hanover, Hereditary Princess of Monaco, elder sister of the Prince
2. Andrea Casiraghi, elder son of the Princess of Hanover and Stefano Casiraghi
3. Pierre Casiraghi, younger son of the Princess of Hanover and Stefano Casiraghi
4. Charlotte Casiraghi, daughter of the Princess of Hanover and Stefano Casiraghi
5. HRH Princess Alexandra of Hanover, daughter of the Prince and Princess of Hanover
6. HSH Princess Stéphanie of Monaco, younger sister of the Prince
7. Louis Ducruet, son of Princess Stéphanie and Daniel Ducruet
8. Pauline Ducruet, daughter of Princess Stéphanie and Daniel Ducruet

All of the above would be moved down the list if Albert II were to father a legitimate child.

If Albert passes away before a child from his and Charlene is 18 this child will become the new Prince/Princess but a regency is needed. Don't know how it is in Monaco if Charlene would then become the Regent )like in the Ndetherlands when Queen Emma became Regent for her daughter Wilhelmine) or the next adult in line of succession as it is in some other monarchies.

 

[texankitcat]

He's marrying Charlene Wittstock, not Charlotte Wittstock.

My apologies. I will correct.

If Albert passes away before a child from his and Charlene is 18 this child will become the new Prince/Princess but a regency is needed. Don't know how it is in Monaco if Charlene would then become the Regent )like in the Ndetherlands when Queen Emma became Regent for her daughter Wilhelmine) or the next adult in line of succession as it is in some other monarchies.

I wouldn't think Charlene would be qualified to act as Regent. She was not born or raised in Monaco and does not have the education or training required to act as Regent. Monaco is unique in that the Reining Prince has legislative, constitutional, judiciary and executive power. Albert was well educated and trained for this role. Caroline would be the most qauilfied to act as Regent should anything happen to PA prior to a legitimate heir being ready to assume the Regency, however she is also older than Albert.

It's an interesting scenario to ponder considering Albert is marrying at 53 and does not currently have a legitimate heir.

 

[MRSJ]

Well in all likelihood many of us we'll probably get to see this play out at least some what considering how old PA is, and we will know in a few years whether CW and him have kids so....we may very well get to see Andrea crowned or PA's children....

 

[Charlotte_Aster]

Well, technically Monaco doesn't have a crown, so Andrea cannot be "crowned" Besides why would he be crowned when his mother is still alive and if women cannot inherit the throne, then how come PCaroline is the Hereditary Princess right now?

 

[MRSJ]

Well, technically Monaco doesn't have a crown, so Andrea cannot be "crowned" Besides why would he be crowned when his mother is still alive and if women cannot inherit the throne, then how come PCaroline is the Hereditary Princess right now?

Opps sorry- meant takes the throne-

Sorry should have mentioned in my post I am assuming if PA dies without heir and Caroline pre-deceases myself (or anyone else who is prob so young she'll be assume throne and then so will Andrea)-so we may get to see her inherit the throne and then Andrea- like in England, assuming Charles is crowned he could only be King a few years and considering I am William's age, barring some huge diaster I will probably live to see both Charles and William crowned- I didn't mean to skip PCaroline, That's what I meant by see this play out-sorry for confusion.

 

[lancchick]

Men have children in their 50s. It happens. What's up the age discrimination?