Marriage partners in the Dutch royal family


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

Lee-Z

Heir Apparent
Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Messages
3,646
City
Heerlen
Country
Netherlands
Indeed Pieter was the first 'commoner' to marry into the royal family and he didn't get a title upon marriage (as i understand it because then Q.Juliana was not a fan of titles). To some him being a commoner was already a bit of a shock and in certain circles he was looked down upon a bit in the early years.
Pieter proved himself a very approachable person, very outgoing and easy to talk to. He also has a good sense of humor, also about himself and his own role. Where the dutch royals could at times be pretty stand-off-ish, Pieter has always been very jovial when interacting with the general audience and also journalists. Sometimes so jovial that sometimes it bordered on a little bit 'silly' (it's not the right word, but i can't think of the right one in english).
Also Pieter performed piano concerts with a few well known pianist friends, also on a few tv shows, which made him probably feel even more down to earth to many of the general audience (maybe not so much in the royal family, i think Q.Beatrix was necessarily a fan of this)
In the NL it's quite common to make jokes about or parody celebrities, politicians etc, and we like when the celebs can laugh about that themselves; Pieter with his very recognizable look, with the glasses and the large ears was always easy parodied, and he was not one who minded it at all.
The clips shown a few posts earlier are by very famous dutch comedians, and although at the time it was a tiny bit daring to joke about someone from the royal family, looking back the humor was pretty gentle and without intending harm. Maybe it was even a bit of an honor to be parodied by them, and as said, Pieter was always known to have a good sense of humor.

Over time and also due to several patronages Pieter has done, appreciation for him improved, both to the general audience, but also within the royal family.

maybe an interesting read is this article (in dutch, but i hope you can use an online translator for it) Profiel Pieter van Vollenhoven: doorzetter met grapjes
 
Indeed Pieter was the first 'commoner' to marry into the royal family and he didn't get a title upon marriage (as i understand it because then Q.Juliana was not a fan of titles).
Juliana considered making Pieter a prince of the Netherlands but didn’t because she was worried about setting a precedent. He expressed that he felt it was unfair that his wife and children were princes and princesses but he wasn’t.
 
Juliana considered making Pieter a prince of the Netherlands but didn’t because she was worried about setting a precedent. He expressed that he felt it was unfair that his wife and children were princes and princesses but he wasn’t.
That was a quote from the biography of former olitician Barend Biesheuvel, but in a later reaction Pieter stated he couldn't remember that that happened and didn't think it plausibel that it had Pieter van Vollenhoven - Wikipedia
 
Juliana considered making Pieter a prince of the Netherlands but didn’t because she was worried about setting a precedent. He expressed that he felt it was unfair that his wife and children were princes and princesses but he wasn’t.
That was a quote from the biography of former olitician Barend Biesheuvel, but in a later reaction Pieter stated he couldn't remember that that happened and didn't think it plausibel that it had Pieter van Vollenhoven - Wikipedia
Made a post to clarify what Pieter van Vollenhoven said here:

 
Pieter is always full of praise for his late mother-in-law, who indeed was the only one who supported him. Even his own mother had her reservations due to the difference in rank.

Coincidently I bought the book on Biesheuvel this weekend! It says that it was Juliana who called Biesheuvel on March 14th 1966, a few days after Beatrix' wedding. She wanted to discuss 'difficulties' around the upcoming wedding. Biesheuvel and his cabinet were busy for weeks with the matter. In the cabinet only Defense Minister Piet de Jong (a year later Prime Minister, in the 50/ties he was an aide-de-camp to Juliana) was in favour. The Queen was against, she thought it was oldfashioned and un-Dutch.

Pieter held a plea (the book is not clear when, but I assume at an earlier stage) to prime minister Cals and minister of state Beel, without result. After that he turned to Biesheuvel. Biesheuvel was sympathetic but told him: 'you fell in love with the wrong girl. he did not mind Pieter being a commoner "he was a decent young man from a decent family" but he did admit that he might have felt differently had Pieter married the heiress.

Pieter telephoned Biesheuvel on March 15th (a day after Juliana) and wanted to meet Biesheuvel the same day. They met at the ministery. Biesheuvel noted that until that stage Pieter never thought about a title but because of Beatrix' wedding to Claus he started to think differently. Claus was accepted as a Prince by the people, why wouldn't that be the case for him? 'Claus yes, me not'. Biesheuvel spoke again to Beel and to Juliana but the outcome was not changed, even though the children would be princes.

Note that in 1998 the diary of PM Cals became public. And there it was also said that it was Juliana who stopped the title for Pieter, while he tried to insist on it. In 1998 Pieter wrote a letter where he denied having lobbied for a title, and says that it was twisting facts.

In 1999 Biesheuvel did an interview with a newspaper and mentioned the lack of title for Pieter was 'discrimination'. A word supposedly used by Pieter in 1966 as well.

Biesheuvel and Pieter became friends. At Pieter's 60th birthday Biesheuvel made a speech where he said that Pieter never became a Prince and that Pieter and his wife never wanted that in the first place: 'it was your own decision, after confidential councils with good friends.'

A year later he told Pieter's biographer Dorine Hermans that at one point Pieter and Margriet preferred a title, but not in the pushy and lobbying way as has been described by the Volkskrant. It had to be regarded in the negative light with which Pieter was received at court, and they were wondering how he could keep himself standing in such an environment, doesn't he need to have a certain status for that? Not to be treated as a second rate character? Hermans said that after these revelations -slip of the tongue perhaps- Biesheuvel closed like an oyster, as if he had said too much.

The reality is that he was treated as a second rate character for years and he had a difficult personal time, especially in the 1970s.

For some reason, I am surprised that Pieter van Vollenhoven’s commoner status was such a stigma in the eyes of the royal family and the cabinet. Logically, I suppose there is no reason to be surprised: As of the 1960s, nearly all of the other royal families of Europe either relegated commoner partners to non-dynastic marriages or only welcomed them after much hesitation and controversy.

I suppose I thought the Netherlands was always more relaxed about consorts’ family background because Princess Juliana and Princess Beatrix both married spouses with humbler (albeit still noble) family backgrounds compared to most other European heirs to thrones in their respective generations.
 
For some reason, I am surprised that Pieter van Vollenhoven’s commoner status was such a stigma in the eyes of the royal family and the cabinet. Logically, I suppose there is no reason to be surprised: As of the 1960s, nearly all of the other royal families of Europe either relegated commoner partners to non-dynastic marriages or only welcomed them after much hesitation and controversy.

I suppose I thought the Netherlands was always more relaxed about consorts’ family background because Princess Juliana and Princess Beatrix both married spouses with humbler (albeit still noble) family backgrounds compared to most other European heirs to thrones in their respective generations.
That's true of Juliana's generation, perhaps, but not Beatrix's. The heirs in Sweden, Denmark, Norway, and Belgium all married people with much humbler, non-royal backgrounds in the 60s and 70s. (By 1981, it was true in the UK and Luxembourg, too.)
 
For some reason, I am surprised that Pieter van Vollenhoven’s commoner status was such a stigma in the eyes of the royal family and the cabinet. Logically, I suppose there is no reason to be surprised: As of the 1960s, nearly all of the other royal families of Europe either relegated commoner partners to non-dynastic marriages or only welcomed them after much hesitation and controversy.

I suppose I thought the Netherlands was always more relaxed about consorts’ family background because Princess Juliana and Princess Beatrix both married spouses with humbler (albeit still noble) family backgrounds compared to most other European heirs to thrones in their respective generations.
I suppose they didn't see minor royals and nobles as the same as commoners. I believe that the same thing occurred in Denmark when it was fine for the future queen to marry a minor French aristocrat but marrying a commoner would still cost you your title. Wilhelmina also married a German aristocrat.
 
I suppose they didn't see minor royals and nobles as the same as commoners. I believe that the same thing occurred in Denmark when it was fine for the future queen to marry a minor French aristocrat but marrying a commoner would still cost you your title. Wilhelmina also married a German aristocrat.

True. And Belgium in the 1990s also seemed to draw the line in the same place (Crown Prince Philippe was reportedly discouraged by his family from marrying a commoner girlfriend of his, but in 1999 he married a woman from the very lowest rank of the Belgian nobility without trouble).

And I believe @Somebody pointed out that the Dutch Royal House has been slower to accept spouses from truly ordinary families compared to other European royal houses (Daniel of Sweden, Mette-Marit of Norway, et al), so my initial "the Dutch are more relaxed" impression doesn't truly capture the situation.

That's true of Juliana's generation, perhaps, but not Beatrix's. The heirs in Sweden, Denmark, Norway, and Belgium all married people with much humbler, non-royal backgrounds in the 60s and 70s. (By 1981, it was true in the UK and Luxembourg, too.)

It is true that Beatrix's generation as a whole turned towards consorts with humbler non-royal family backgrounds, but Beatrix's husband was still of relatively low social status by the norms of his generation of European consorts; Henri (Denmark) and Paola (Belgium) legally were untitled commoners (as was Claus) but were socially known as Count and Princess respectively. Only Silvia (Sweden) and Sonja (Norway) came from (wealthy) commoner families which made no pretense to nobility, and in both cases monarchs were initially unwilling to approve them as dynastic spouses.


Returning to Pieter van Vollenhoven, I wonder if the resistance and lack of acceptance he received from the establishment helped to form his humble, unpretentious, likeable attitude towards the general public.
 
True. And Belgium in the 1990s also seemed to draw the line in the same place (Crown Prince Philippe was reportedly discouraged by his family from marrying a commoner girlfriend of his, but in 1999 he married a woman from the very lowest rank of the Belgian nobility without trouble).

And I believe @Somebody pointed out that the Dutch Royal House has been slower to accept spouses from truly ordinary families compared to other European royal houses (Daniel of Sweden, Mette-Marit of Norway, et al), so my initial "the Dutch are more relaxed" impression doesn't truly capture the situation.



It is true that Beatrix's generation as a whole turned towards consorts with humbler non-royal family backgrounds, but Beatrix's husband was still of relatively low social status by the norms of his generation of European consorts; Henri (Denmark) and Paola (Belgium) legally were untitled commoners (as was Claus) but were socially known as Count and Princess respectively. Only Silvia (Sweden) and Sonja (Norway) came from (wealthy) commoner families which made no pretense to nobility, and in both cases monarchs were initially unwilling to approve them as dynastic spouses.


Returning to Pieter van Vollenhoven, I wonder if the resistance and lack of acceptance he received from the establishment helped to form his humble, unpretentious, likeable attitude towards the general public.
Did Sonja come from a wealthy family? Her father was a clothing merchant so I can't imagine her family had much money. It took a while for Spain to even consider marriages to aristocrats dynastic; both of Juan Carlos' sisters surrendered their succession rights to marry their aristocratic boyfriends. I'm not sure if marriages to aristocrats and commoners were declared dynastic at the same time but Elena married an aristocrat, Cristina married a professional athlete with no noble background, and Felipe married a journalist (the least prestigious of the three spouses) around the same time with all three marriages being considered dynastic.
 
Did Sonja come from a wealthy family? Her father was a clothing merchant so I can't imagine her family had much money.
Her family owned a large store in Oslo with their name on it. They may not have been aristocrats (not that those exist in Norway) but they were certainly comfortable. Sonja went to finishing school in Switzerland and studied abroad elsewhere.

But this has absolutely nothing to do with the Netherlands or the thread?
 
And I believe @Somebody pointed out that the Dutch Royal House has been slower to accept spouses from truly ordinary families compared to other European royal houses (Daniel of Sweden, Mette-Marit of Norway, et al), so my initial "the Dutch are more relaxed" impression doesn't truly capture the situation.
This indeed applies to the 'heir to the throne' (by at least queen Beatrix); as evidenced by Pieter van Vollenhoven's entrance into the royal family and the brides of all other princes in the next generation; a 'Dutch commoner' was considered acceptable. However, queen Beatrix wanted to ensure some 'distance' between the future queen and the 'general Dutch public'.

For context: Pieter van Vollenhoven was from a non-noble background but the 'Van Vollenhoven'-family was considered part of the Dutch patriciate. The website dedicated to the Patriciate describes this group as "In the Netherlands' Patriciate, better known as the 'Blue Book', genealogies are included of families that have played a prominent role in Dutch society over the past 150 years (or longer) and whose members are still in the foreground."

Also in the next generation, several princes married non-noble brides from prominent families, for example Laurentien Brinkhorst (her father was among other things a prominent member of the Dutch political party D'66, multiple-times Minister and once vice-prime minister), Marilène van den Broek (her father was Minister of Foreign Affairs, European Commissioner and was until his recent death a Minister of State* - the family can also be found in the 'Blue Book') and Annemarie Gualtherie van Weezel (her father had several positions in Dutch politics and diplomacy); but her grandparents on both sides also were prominent members of society).

* Minister of State is an honorary title awarded to few former politicians for their services to public service.
 
It was WIlhelmina herself who later in life came to the conclusion that a marriage to Dutch commoners would be best - somehow to be 'one with the people'. She writes about this in her autobiography. She even preferred a non-noble as it may otherwise lead to petty squables between aristocratic families. This thought was supposedly shared by Juliana and Margriet.

Claus was from the lower aristocracy - his grandfather was the head forester at the court of Mecklenburg. In that light I never understood Beatrix thinking Pieter's background, from a very decent patrician family- was so much worse. The Van Vollenhovens delivered a mayor of Rotterdam, a mayor of Amsterdam, several members of parlament and the diplomat Maurits van Vollenhoven married a Spanish Bourbon (daughter of the duke of Durcal). Prof. Cornelius van Vollenhoven taught Juliana at the University of Leiden. Some added other last names to theirs or acquired a Lordship. The Von Amsbergs owned a few farms in Mecklenburg and were only ennobled not that long before.

Also Princess Armgard, the mother of Bernhard, was against the marriage to a commoner. While she herself lived with a Russian refugee colonel Pantchoulidzew for decades and was married morganatically to Bernhards father.

But apart from him not being noble there were other factors making it easier to sideline Pieter. First of all he was Dutch. And that made it much easier for people at court but also in the country to measure him up, to place his accent, his family etc. And compared to the nobles working at the court, he/his family was indeed of lower social status. And secondly while Claus was a diplomat, a gentleman moving in the higher social circles (a friend of Prince Richard of Berleburg and Beatrix and Claus met at a party organised by Beatrix cousin count Oeynhausen) and married into the family when he was around 40 and with a career, this was not the case for Pieter. Pieter was less 'presentable': young, green, 'a typical student from Leiden with too much bravado to hide his insecurity' said Biesheuvel. He came fresh from university, had no carreer yet.

They simply didn't know what to do with him. And at court I don't know if they ever warmed up to him. And this dislike was brought over to his sons, all of which were considered a bit 'too light'. The press interest in Maurits and Marilene [he was the first one to get married] was a source of irritation in the Hague. Pss Margarita in her infamous interviews with her first husband also confirmed that impression. I was in the Museum van Loon - the canal house of Mrs Martine van Loon-Labouchere, by then still grand mistress of the court- on a visit a long time ago where a tourguide started ranting about having a princess named 'Anita' (a name sometimes indicating a lower social status, even though her family is perfectly respectable).

I remember a documentary about Beatrix where a lady-in-waiting was praising the good manners of Beatrix' sons while referring to *some* popular others who didn't bother to shake her hand at a new year´s reception. From the context it was clear she meant Maurits and Marilene. I don't disagree completely: we don't need to see princes behind DJ tables and I do find these people from Amsterdam heading to Ibiza not very chique either, but what does it matter? And now the most vulgar of all of them is the granddaughter of the very posh Beatrix and the even posher Laurens-Jan Brinkhorst, -not a Van Vollenhoven- which is a great joke.

The only working class person married into the RF is Annete Sekreve, and she seems to have done so with ease. All the others are indeed upper middle class or in the case of the Brenninkmeijers: upper class. Personally I would expect a hypothetical Daniel Westling II marrying the heiress would be popular but he could also count on a lifetime of petty and snide remarks about accent, lack of university degree etc.

--
I am going through the biography of Foreign minister -and later NATO secretary general- Joseph Luns, himself married to a baroness van Heemstra. It says that in 1964 Prime Minister Marijnen told him that Juliana had informed him that 'Margriet regarded herself as engaged to the law-student from Leiden, PvV'. Marijnen thought that such a 'morganatic marriage' would be a danger to the monarchy and such children would not be accepted as heirs to the throne in the case of Beatrix being unable to have children. Luns -of course- agreed completely, though he also anticipated that parlament 'from a wrongly interperted egalitarian-principle' would approve of such a marriage, but that this would not prevent 'a later negative attitude of the Dutch population'. Luns urgently advised Marijnen to convice the young man to retreat for the sake of the royal house. He recruited the help of former minister Beerman (like the Van Vollenhovens also from a patrician family from/near Rotterdam) to convince the parents to end this 'completely undesirable idylle'.

Earlier Luns had complained to Bernhard himself that Queen and prince acted completely unprofessionally in finding a partner for their eldest daughter. Beatrix socialising with 'enthusiastic and idealistic young people with all sorts of progessive plans and with quastionable backgrounds and long hair' did not help and Beatrix needed to get in touch with foreigners of equal standing (he used the German 'ebenbürtig'). Note that the group included Laurens-Jan Brinkhorst, Laurentien's father. In the mean time he talked to cardinal Alfrink how the Vatican would regard a catholic marriage where the children would be raised as protestants - in case that like her sister, Beatrix would meet a catholic Prince.

Luns advised Bernhard to make a list of candidates between 28 and 37, starting in the UK. He suggested via ambassador Van Rooijen -also well known at the court) to approach the private secretary of Queen Elizabeth II. The prince agreed, Van Rooijen started working and early 1965 several dinners were organised. This was not a success, Beatrix though the English were 'too aloof and cold'. At a dinner in Germany she would later meet Claus, who was invited to make up numbers, and who was not supposed to be the one that would actually be chosen over more high ranking candidates [including Prince Richard of Berleburg]. Beatrix herself said that she had met Claus already before this dinner party [at another one] and was already in love with him.

Note that in her Beatrix biography Jutta Chorus says that Juliana advised her daughter in 1962 already to look for a partner ´in Anglo-Saxon circles´, so the Luns biography may have some dates wrong. Huub Oosterhuis [family friend] said: 'she didn't like that at all, those cold English, that distant and closed British aristocracy. She thought Germans were warmer, more European and closerby' [I assume he meant mental proximity]. Although Margriet is not referred to in the book, Chorus points out that Beatrix was simply madly in love, which perhaps made her overlook some objections she may have had earlier for her sister.

Luns was also against Claus: low nobility and -faulty- enquiries told him that Claus was 'a typical snob, arrogant, vain and chasing women'. Supposedly he had had a relationship 'with the much older and mundaine comtesse de Riberg and at the moment with a secretary of the Swedish embassy'. Luns realised his point-of-view was not modern but he maintained that for the Dutch population 'any prince would be better than the best count. And any count would be better than the best baron etc'. He was very irritated that the ministers had 'weak backbones' and bowed to the 'not very dynastic preferences of Queen Juliana'. Supposedly Beatrix loathed Luns for the rest of his life, he was never made a minister of State, while he would have been the most obvious candidate for such a position.
 
Last edited:
It was WIlhelmina herself who later in life came to the conclusion that a marriage to Dutch commoners would be best - somehow to be 'one with the people'. She writes about this in her autobiography. She even preferred a non-noble as it may otherwise lead to petty squables between aristocratic families. This thought was supposedly shared by Juliana and Margriet.

Claus was from the lower aristocracy - his grandfather was the head forester at the court of Mecklenburg. In that light I never understood Beatrix thinking Pieter's background, from a very decent patrician family- was so much worse. The Van Vollenhovens delivered a mayor of Rotterdam, a mayor of Amsterdam, several members of parlament and the diplomat Maurits van Vollenhoven married a Spanish Bourbon (daughter of the duke of Durcal). Prof. Cornelius van Vollenhoven taught Juliana at the University of Leiden. Some added other last names to theirs or acquired a Lordship. The Von Amsbergs owned a few farms in Mecklenburg and were only ennobled not that long before.

Also Princess Armgard, the mother of Bernhard, was against the marriage to a commoner. While she herself lived with a Russian refugee colonel Pantchoulidzew for decades and was married morganatically to Bernhards father.

But apart from him not being noble there were other factors making it easier to sideline Pieter. First of all he was Dutch. And that made it much easier for people at court but also in the country to measure him up, to place his accent, his family etc. And compared to the nobles working at the court, he/his family was indeed of lower social status. And secondly while Claus was a diplomat, a gentleman moving in the higher social circles (a friend of Prince Richard of Berleburg and Beatrix and Claus met at a party organised by Beatrix cousin count Oeynhausen) and married into the family when he was around 40 and with a career, this was not the case for Pieter. Pieter was less 'presentable': young, green, 'a typical student from Leiden with too much bravado to hide his insecurity' said Biesheuvel. He came fresh from university, had no carreer yet.

They simply didn't know what to do with him. And at court I don't know if they ever warmed up to him. And this dislike was brought over to his sons, all of which were considered a bit 'too light'. The press interest in Maurits and Marilene [he was the first one to get married] was a source of irritation in the Hague. Pss Margarita in her infamous interviews with her first husband also confirmed that impression. I was in the Museum van Loon - the canal house of Mrs Martine van Loon-Labouchere, by then still grand mistress of the court- on a visit a long time ago where a tourguide started ranting about having a princess named 'Anita' (a name sometimes indicating a lower social status, even though her family is perfectly respectable).

I remember a documentary about Beatrix where a lady-in-waiting was praising the good manners of Beatrix' sons while referring to *some* popular others who didn't bother to shake her hand at a new year´s reception. From the context it was clear she meant Maurits and Marilene. I don't disagree completely: we don't need to see princes behind DJ tables and I do find these people from Amsterdam heading to Ibiza not very chique either, but what does it matter? And now the most vulgar of all of them is the granddaughter of the very posh Beatrix and the even posher Laurens-Jan Brinkhorst, -not a Van Vollenhoven- which is a great joke.

The only working class person married into the RF is Annete Sekreve, and she seems to have done so with ease. All the others are indeed upper middle class or in the case of the Brenninkmeijers: upper class. Personally I would expect a hypothetical Daniel Westling II marrying the heiress would be popular but he could also count on a lifetime of petty and snide remarks about accent, lack of university degree etc.

--
I am going through the biography of Foreign minister -and later NATO secretary general- Joseph Luns, himself married to a baroness van Heemstra. It says that in 1964 Prime Minister Marijnen told him that Juliana had informed him that 'Margriet regarded herself as engaged to the law-student from Leiden, PvV'. Marijnen thought that such a 'morganatic marriage' would be a danger to the monarchy and such children would not be accepted as heirs to the throne in the case of Beatrix being unable to have children. Luns -of course- agreed completely, though he also anticipated that parlament 'from a wrongly interperted egalitarian-principle' would approve of such a marriage, but that this would not prevent 'a later negative attitude of the Dutch population'. Luns urgently advised Marijnen to convice the young man to retreat for the sake of the royal house. He recruited the help of former minister Beerman (like the Van Vollenhovens also from a patrician family from/near Rotterdam) to convince the parents to end this 'completely undesirable idylle'.

Earlier Luns had complained to Bernhard himself that Queen and prince acted completely unprofessionally in finding a partner for their eldest daughter. Beatrix socialising with 'enthusiastic and idealistic young people with all sorts of progessive plans and with quastionable backgrounds and long hair' did not help and Beatrix needed to get in touch with foreigners of equal standing (he used the German 'ebenbürtig'). Note that the group included Laurens-Jan Brinkhorst, Laurentien's father. In the mean time he talked to cardinal Alfrink how the Vatican would regard a catholic marriage where the children would be raised as protestants - in case that like her sister, Beatrix would meet a catholic Prince.

Luns advised Bernhard to make a list of candidates between 28 and 37, starting in the UK. He suggested via ambassador Van Rooijen -also well known at the court) to approach the private secretary of Queen Elizabeth II. The prince agreed, Van Rooijen started working and early 1965 several dinners were organised. This was not a success, Beatrix though the English were 'too aloof and cold'. At a dinner in Germany she would later meet Claus, who was invited to make up numbers, and who was not supposed to be the one that would actually be chosen over more high ranking candidates [including Prince Richard of Berleburg]. Beatrix herself said that she had met Claus already before this dinner party [at another one] and was already in love with him.

Note that in her Beatrix biography Jutta Chorus says that Juliana advised her daughter in 1962 already to look for a partner ´in Anglo-Saxon circles´, so the Luns biography may have some dates wrong. Huub Oosterhuis [family friend] said: 'she didn't like that at all, those cold English, that distant and closed British aristocracy. She thought Germans were warmer, more European and closerby' [I assume he meant mental proximity]. Although Margriet is not referred to in the book, Chorus points out that Beatrix was simply madly in love, which perhaps made her overlook some objections she may have had earlier for her sister.

Luns was also against Claus: low nobility and -faulty- enquiries told him that Claus was 'a typical snob, arrogant, vain and chasing women'. Supposedly he had had a relationship 'with the much older and mundaine comtesse de Riberg and at the moment with a secretary of the Swedish embassy'. Luns realised his point-of-view was not modern but he maintained that for the Dutch population 'any prince would be better than the best count. And any count would be better than the best baron etc'. He was very irritated that the ministers had 'weak backbones' and bowed to the 'not very dynastic preferences of Queen Juliana'. Supposedly Beatrix loathed Luns for the rest of his life, he was never made a minister of State, while he would have been the most obvious candidate for such a position.
Very interesting!

I wonder if the fact that Claus and Beatrix are distant cousins helped his case. I seem to recall reading that they are fourth or fifth cousins through noble families on Claus's mother's side.
 
Unlikely, I doubt that would have worked in his favor in any way. Moreover, marrying a German was at that time in the perception of most likely more problematic than him being of the lower aristocracy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SLV
Unlikely, I doubt that would have worked in his favor in any way. Moreover, marrying a German was at that time in the perception of most likely more problematic than him being of the lower aristocracy.
I was referring to Marengo's comments about nobles, not Claus's nationality. With a noble background on his mother's side -- that he shared with Beatrix -- and untitled nobility on his father's side, he wasn't a nobody.
 
I was referring to Marengo's comments about nobles, not Claus's nationality. With a noble background on his mother's side -- that he shared with Beatrix -- and untitled nobility on his father's side, he wasn't a nobody.
I understand - but him being far-far-away related was irrelevant to the Dutch; him being a minor noble was probably a concern for some but not for others; him being a German on the other hand was a prominent issue and problem for the large majority of the population.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SLV
Grateful thanks for Marengo long and interesting posts. I learned a lot and remember a lot .. Well done !
 
It was WIlhelmina herself who later in life came to the conclusion that a marriage to Dutch commoners would be best - somehow to be 'one with the people'. She writes about this in her autobiography. She even preferred a non-noble as it may otherwise lead to petty squables between aristocratic families. This thought was supposedly shared by Juliana and Margriet.

Claus was from the lower aristocracy - his grandfather was the head forester at the court of Mecklenburg. In that light I never understood Beatrix thinking Pieter's background, from a very decent patrician family- was so much worse. The Van Vollenhovens delivered a mayor of Rotterdam, a mayor of Amsterdam, several members of parlament and the diplomat Maurits van Vollenhoven married a Spanish Bourbon (daughter of the duke of Durcal). Prof. Cornelius van Vollenhoven taught Juliana at the University of Leiden. Some added other last names to theirs or acquired a Lordship. The Von Amsbergs owned a few farms in Mecklenburg and were only ennobled not that long before.

Also Princess Armgard, the mother of Bernhard, was against the marriage to a commoner. While she herself lived with a Russian refugee colonel Pantchoulidzew for decades and was married morganatically to Bernhards father.

But apart from him not being noble there were other factors making it easier to sideline Pieter. First of all he was Dutch. And that made it much easier for people at court but also in the country to measure him up, to place his accent, his family etc. And compared to the nobles working at the court, he/his family was indeed of lower social status. And secondly while Claus was a diplomat, a gentleman moving in the higher social circles (a friend of Prince Richard of Berleburg and Beatrix and Claus met at a party organised by Beatrix cousin count Oeynhausen) and married into the family when he was around 40 and with a career, this was not the case for Pieter. Pieter was less 'presentable': young, green, 'a typical student from Leiden with too much bravado to hide his insecurity' said Biesheuvel. He came fresh from university, had no carreer yet.

They simply didn't know what to do with him. And at court I don't know if they ever warmed up to him. And this dislike was brought over to his sons, all of which were considered a bit 'too light'. The press interest in Maurits and Marilene [he was the first one to get married] was a source of irritation in the Hague. Pss Margarita in her infamous interviews with her first husband also confirmed that impression. I was in the Museum van Loon - the canal house of Mrs Martine van Loon-Labouchere, by then still grand mistress of the court- on a visit a long time ago where a tourguide started ranting about having a princess named 'Anita' (a name sometimes indicating a lower social status, even though her family is perfectly respectable).

I remember a documentary about Beatrix where a lady-in-waiting was praising the good manners of Beatrix' sons while referring to *some* popular others who didn't bother to shake her hand at a new year´s reception. From the context it was clear she meant Maurits and Marilene. I don't disagree completely: we don't need to see princes behind DJ tables and I do find these people from Amsterdam heading to Ibiza not very chique either, but what does it matter? And now the most vulgar of all of them is the granddaughter of the very posh Beatrix and the even posher Laurens-Jan Brinkhorst, -not a Van Vollenhoven- which is a great joke.

The only working class person married into the RF is Annete Sekreve, and she seems to have done so with ease. All the others are indeed upper middle class or in the case of the Brenninkmeijers: upper class. Personally I would expect a hypothetical Daniel Westling II marrying the heiress would be popular but he could also count on a lifetime of petty and snide remarks about accent, lack of university degree etc.

--
I am going through the biography of Foreign minister -and later NATO secretary general- Joseph Luns, himself married to a baroness van Heemstra. It says that in 1964 Prime Minister Marijnen told him that Juliana had informed him that 'Margriet regarded herself as engaged to the law-student from Leiden, PvV'. Marijnen thought that such a 'morganatic marriage' would be a danger to the monarchy and such children would not be accepted as heirs to the throne in the case of Beatrix being unable to have children. Luns -of course- agreed completely, though he also anticipated that parlament 'from a wrongly interperted egalitarian-principle' would approve of such a marriage, but that this would not prevent 'a later negative attitude of the Dutch population'. Luns urgently advised Marijnen to convice the young man to retreat for the sake of the royal house. He recruited the help of former minister Beerman (like the Van Vollenhovens also from a patrician family from/near Rotterdam) to convince the parents to end this 'completely undesirable idylle'.

Earlier Luns had complained to Bernhard himself that Queen and prince acted completely unprofessionally in finding a partner for their eldest daughter. Beatrix socialising with 'enthusiastic and idealistic young people with all sorts of progessive plans and with quastionable backgrounds and long hair' did not help and Beatrix needed to get in touch with foreigners of equal standing (he used the German 'ebenbürtig'). Note that the group included Laurens-Jan Brinkhorst, Laurentien's father. In the mean time he talked to cardinal Alfrink how the Vatican would regard a catholic marriage where the children would be raised as protestants - in case that like her sister, Beatrix would meet a catholic Prince.

Luns advised Bernhard to make a list of candidates between 28 and 37, starting in the UK. He suggested via ambassador Van Rooijen -also well known at the court) to approach the private secretary of Queen Elizabeth II. The prince agreed, Van Rooijen started working and early 1965 several dinners were organised. This was not a success, Beatrix though the English were 'too aloof and cold'. At a dinner in Germany she would later meet Claus, who was invited to make up numbers, and who was not supposed to be the one that would actually be chosen over more high ranking candidates [including Prince Richard of Berleburg]. Beatrix herself said that she had met Claus already before this dinner party [at another one] and was already in love with him.

Note that in her Beatrix biography Jutta Chorus says that Juliana advised her daughter in 1962 already to look for a partner ´in Anglo-Saxon circles´, so the Luns biography may have some dates wrong. Huub Oosterhuis [family friend] said: 'she didn't like that at all, those cold English, that distant and closed British aristocracy. She thought Germans were warmer, more European and closerby' [I assume he meant mental proximity]. Although Margriet is not referred to in the book, Chorus points out that Beatrix was simply madly in love, which perhaps made her overlook some objections she may have had earlier for her sister.

Luns was also against Claus: low nobility and -faulty- enquiries told him that Claus was 'a typical snob, arrogant, vain and chasing women'. Supposedly he had had a relationship 'with the much older and mundaine comtesse de Riberg and at the moment with a secretary of the Swedish embassy'. Luns realised his point-of-view was not modern but he maintained that for the Dutch population 'any prince would be better than the best count. And any count would be better than the best baron etc'. He was very irritated that the ministers had 'weak backbones' and bowed to the 'not very dynastic preferences of Queen Juliana'. Supposedly Beatrix loathed Luns for the rest of his life, he was never made a minister of State, while he would have been the most obvious candidate for such a position.

Thank you for this engagingly written deep exploration of 20th-century marriage standards in the royal house. And for sharing so much information from Dutch sources which most of us outside the Netherlands would otherwise never see.


It was WIlhelmina herself who later in life came to the conclusion that a marriage to Dutch commoners would be best - somehow to be 'one with the people'. She writes about this in her autobiography. She even preferred a non-noble as it may otherwise lead to petty squables between aristocratic families. This thought was supposedly shared by Juliana and Margriet.

I wonder if the complications that Wilhelmina’s and Juliana’s noble-born consorts brought to their marriages and/or the monarchy, compared to Margriet’s successful choice, influenced their eventual opinons.

Alternatively, perhaps the feared and actual German occupations of the World Wars crystallized the importance of Dutch identity in their minds? Wilhelmina’s reign also saw the laws of succession to the throne amended to keep the German relatives off the Dutch throne, and then there were the anti-German protests at Beatrix’s wedding.


Claus was from the lower aristocracy - his grandfather was the head forester at the court of Mecklenburg. In that light I never understood Beatrix thinking Pieter's background, from a very decent patrician family- was so much worse. The Van Vollenhovens delivered a mayor of Rotterdam, a mayor of Amsterdam, several members of parlament and the diplomat Maurits van Vollenhoven married a Spanish Bourbon (daughter of the duke of Durcal). Prof. Cornelius van Vollenhoven taught Juliana at the University of Leiden. Some added other last names to theirs or acquired a Lordship. The Von Amsbergs owned a few farms in Mecklenburg and were only ennobled not that long before.

Also Princess Armgard, the mother of Bernhard, was against the marriage to a commoner. While she herself lived with a Russian refugee colonel Pantchoulidzew for decades and was married morganatically to Bernhards father.

Well illustrated. Wasn’t it common knowledge that untitled nobility created during the 19th century were, frankly, thick on the ground in Germany and certainly seen as parvenus unsuitable to marry into the German reigning families? A family of the German bourgeoisie with the Van Vollenhovens’ profile would perhaps have ended up ennobled as a “von”.


But apart from him not being noble there were other factors making it easier to sideline Pieter. First of all he was Dutch. And that made it much easier for people at court but also in the country to measure him up, to place his accent, his family etc. And compared to the nobles working at the court, he/his family was indeed of lower social status.

Personally I would expect a hypothetical Daniel Westling II marrying the heiress would be popular but he could also count on a lifetime of petty and snide remarks about accent, lack of university degree etc.

Very interesting indeed. When I read that Queen Margrethe II of Denmark discouraged her sons from marrying Danish commoners (but was happy to have them marry foreign commoners, so it was not an issue of tradition or classism) I was baffled. But you illustrate well the benefits of that approach. It is indeed easier to present an incoming consort in the best possible light when the country is not filled with people who feel that they already know his “type” (and some who know him personally).


And secondly while Claus was a diplomat, a gentleman moving in the higher social circles (a friend of Prince Richard of Berleburg and Beatrix and Claus met at a party organised by Beatrix cousin count Oeynhausen) and married into the family when he was around 40 and with a career, this was not the case for Pieter. Pieter was less 'presentable': young, green, 'a typical student from Leiden with too much bravado to hide his insecurity' said Biesheuvel. He came fresh from university, had no carreer yet.
They simply didn't know what to do with him.

Here the couple were perhaps disadvantaged by their genders. Female consorts in 20th- and 21st-century Europe seem not to have had inexperience or immaturity held against them, provided they were pretty and charming (cf. Lady Diana Spencer, age 20). But it sounds that more savoir-faire was expected of Pieter van Vollenhoven and he could not rely on pure personality and style to be taken seriously.


And at court I don't know if they ever warmed up to him. And this dislike was brought over to his sons, all of which were considered a bit 'too light'. The press interest in Maurits and Marilene [he was the first one to get married] was a source of irritation in the Hague. Pss Margarita in her infamous interviews with her first husband also confirmed that impression. I was in the Museum van Loon - the canal house of Mrs Martine van Loon-Labouchere, by then still grand mistress of the court- on a visit a long time ago where a tourguide started ranting about having a princess named 'Anita' (a name sometimes indicating a lower social status, even though her family is perfectly respectable).

I remember a documentary about Beatrix where a lady-in-waiting was praising the good manners of Beatrix' sons while referring to *some* popular others who didn't bother to shake her hand at a new year´s reception. From the context it was clear she meant Maurits and Marilene. I don't disagree completely: we don't need to see princes behind DJ tables and I do find these people from Amsterdam heading to Ibiza not very chique either, but what does it matter? And now the most vulgar of all of them is the granddaughter of the very posh Beatrix and the even posher Laurens-Jan Brinkhorst, -not a Van Vollenhoven- which is a great joke.

Goodness. Yes, from the vantage point of 2025, a time when the Orange-Nassau van Vollenhovens were collectively considered déclassé seems long ago.


The only working class person married into the RF is Annete Sekreve, and she seems to have done so with ease. All the others are indeed upper middle class or in the case of the Brenninkmeijers: upper class.

Interesting! By the way, does that have anything to do why Annette’s mother is the only mother-in-law of the Orange-Nassau van Vollenhoven princes to be styled on the royal website by her own name (de Haan) and not a hyphenated name (van den Broek-van Schendel, etc.)?
 
I wonder if the complications that Wilhelmina’s and Juliana’s noble-born consorts brought to their marriages and/or the monarchy, compared to Margriet’s successful choice, influenced their eventual opinons.

Alternatively, perhaps the feared and actual German occupations of the World Wars crystallized the importance of Dutch identity in their minds? Wilhelmina’s reign also saw the laws of succession to the throne amended to keep the German relatives off the Dutch throne, and then there were the anti-German protests at Beatrix’s wedding.
Wilhelmina passed away before her granddaughters got married, so it will not have influenced her opinion. Princess Margriet met Pieter about 6 months after her death (and Beatrix met Claus even later).

Interesting! By the way, does that have anything to do why Annette’s mother is the only mother-in-law of the Orange-Nassau van Vollenhoven princes to be styled on the royal website by her own name (de Haan) and not a hyphenated name (van den Broek-van Schendel, etc.)?
No, the reason she is styled by her own name, is that Annette's parents are divorced (their divorce took place before her marriage with Bernhard).

If you like to dive into her family background: this 'kwartierstaat' was published at the time of their marriage.
 
I am going through the biography of Foreign minister -and later NATO secretary general- Joseph Luns, himself married to a baroness van Heemstra. It says that in 1964 Prime Minister Marijnen told him that Juliana had informed him that 'Margriet regarded herself as engaged to the law-student from Leiden, PvV'. Marijnen thought that such a 'morganatic marriage' would be a danger to the monarchy and such children would not be accepted as heirs to the throne in the case of Beatrix being unable to have children. Luns -of course- agreed completely, though he also anticipated that parlament 'from a wrongly interperted egalitarian-principle' would approve of such a marriage, but that this would not prevent 'a later negative attitude of the Dutch population'. Luns urgently advised Marijnen to convice the young man to retreat for the sake of the royal house. He recruited the help of former minister Beerman (like the Van Vollenhovens also from a patrician family from/near Rotterdam) to convince the parents to end this 'completely undesirable idylle'.

Interesting. I wonder how right their prognostications were in the short term. Observing what has happened in other monarchies, I think Marijnen and Luns were correct to contemplate that (1) parliamentary support does not always translate to popular support, and (2) even “commoner” members of the general public sometimes – arguably hypocritically – view some royals as “too common”.


Earlier Luns had complained to Bernhard himself that Queen and prince acted completely unprofessionally in finding a partner for their eldest daughter. Beatrix socialising with 'enthusiastic and idealistic young people with all sorts of progessive plans and with quastionable backgrounds and long hair' did not help and Beatrix needed to get in touch with foreigners of equal standing (he used the German 'ebenbürtig'). Note that the group included Laurens-Jan Brinkhorst, Laurentien's father. In the mean time he talked to cardinal Alfrink how the Vatican would regard a catholic marriage where the children would be raised as protestants - in case that like her sister, Beatrix would meet a catholic Prince.

Again, this is intriguing, especially as to how the foreign minister and the prince consort were close enough for the foreign minister to venture such personal criticisms. Rather funny that Laurentien’s father (who you mentioned is now seen as posher than posh) was perceived by Luns as one of the hippies.


Luns advised Bernhard to make a list of candidates between 28 and 37, starting in the UK. He suggested via ambassador Van Rooijen -also well known at the court) to approach the private secretary of Queen Elizabeth II. The prince agreed, Van Rooijen started working and early 1965 several dinners were organised. This was not a success, Beatrix though the English were 'too aloof and cold'. At a dinner in Germany she would later meet Claus, who was invited to make up numbers, and who was not supposed to be the one that would actually be chosen over more high ranking candidates [including Prince Richard of Berleburg]. Beatrix herself said that she had met Claus already before this dinner party [at another one] and was already in love with him.

Note that in her Beatrix biography Jutta Chorus says that Juliana advised her daughter in 1962 already to look for a partner ´in Anglo-Saxon circles´, so the Luns biography may have some dates wrong. Huub Oosterhuis [family friend] said: 'she didn't like that at all, those cold English, that distant and closed British aristocracy. She thought Germans were warmer, more European and closerby' [I assume he meant mental proximity]. Although Margriet is not referred to in the book, Chorus points out that Beatrix was simply madly in love, which perhaps made her overlook some objections she may have had earlier for her sister.

Whether it was 1962 or 1965, it seems Luns preferred Beatrix to marry an older man.

Interesting indeed, that as late as the 1960s, European royal courts and governments still cooperated with one another in old-fashioned marriage-making.

I wonder why Foreign Minister Luns and Queen Juliana preferred a British consort. Naturally a break with the historical pattern of German consorts would have been w after World War Two, but why British in particular?

Given the anti-German antipathy at the time, I would have thought Prince Richard zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg would have also been crossed off the list of potential matches. Especially as he owned a huge estate in Germany which he could not legally divest himself of.


Luns was also against Claus: low nobility and -faulty- enquiries told him that Claus was 'a typical snob, arrogant, vain and chasing women'. Supposedly he had had a relationship 'with the much older and mundaine comtesse de Riberg and at the moment with a secretary of the Swedish embassy'. Luns realised his point-of-view was not modern but he maintained that for the Dutch population 'any prince would be better than the best count. And any count would be better than the best baron etc'. He was very irritated that the ministers had 'weak backbones' and bowed to the 'not very dynastic preferences of Queen Juliana'. Supposedly Beatrix loathed Luns for the rest of his life, he was never made a minister of State, while he would have been the most obvious candidate for such a position.

I hope it’s not true that Queen Beatrix blocked a political appointment over a personal grudge, but I suppose we’ll never know for sure.
 
This indeed applies to the 'heir to the throne' (by at least queen Beatrix); as evidenced by Pieter van Vollenhoven's entrance into the royal family and the brides of all other princes in the next generation; a 'Dutch commoner' was considered acceptable. However, queen Beatrix wanted to ensure some 'distance' between the future queen and the 'general Dutch public'.

Interesting, as Máxima being Argentine did ensure more “distance” compared to the Dutch commoner brides of the other princes, despite the other problems it caused.
I wonder if that was why Queen Beatrix allegedly opposed Willem-Alexander marrying Emily Bremers.

[Claus] being a minor noble was probably a concern for some but not for others; him being a German on the other hand was a prominent issue and problem for the large majority of the population.

The “minor” part or the “noble” part?

For context: Pieter van Vollenhoven was from a non-noble background but the 'Van Vollenhoven'-family was considered part of the Dutch patriciate. The website dedicated to the Patriciate describes this group as "In the Netherlands' Patriciate, better known as the 'Blue Book', genealogies are included of families that have played a prominent role in Dutch society over the past 150 years (or longer) and whose members are still in the foreground."

Also in the next generation, several princes married non-noble brides from prominent families, for example Laurentien Brinkhorst (her father was among other things a prominent member of the Dutch political party D'66, multiple-times Minister and once vice-prime minister), Marilène van den Broek (her father was Minister of Foreign Affairs, European Commissioner and was until his recent death a Minister of State* - the family can also be found in the 'Blue Book') and Annemarie Gualtherie van Weezel (her father had several positions in Dutch politics and diplomacy); but her grandparents on both sides also were prominent members of society).

* Minister of State is an honorary title awarded to few former politicians for their services to public service.

Thank you for the information. It really seems that the commoners who have married into the Royal House and Family are much more elite, and politically connected, even in comparison to the commoners who have married into other European royal families (who still largely come from wealthy families and/or celebrity circles).

No, the reason she is styled by her own name, is that Annette's parents are divorced (their divorce took place before her marriage with Bernhard).

If you like to dive into her family background: this 'kwartierstaat' was published at the time of their marriage.

Good article. Thank you for the informative links and posts. :flowers:
 
About Emily Bremers: at the time the objections were considered multifactorial. Her father was investigated by the press and he was found out to be rather a snob, with pretences of nobility though he was not an aristocrat but an orthodontist (or dentist). He talked to the press once in a while -they called him and he answered the phone- which was considered evidence for his eager social climbing. To make matters worse: he lived in Brasschaat, near Antwerp in Belgium. A popular enclave for money-ed Dutch people who want to evade paying taxes. He had issues with the tax authorities and was dubbed 'the most unsuitable father in law of the country'. Note that Louis Bremers always denied these fraud allegations. Her mother was from a wealthy family in Zeeland.

In addition it was mentioned that Beatrix simply thought her 'too light' and didn't think she would fit in and would be strong enough to carry the burden. The resumé was fine but not anything special or particulary out of the ordinary. Everybody knew girls like her: also a typical student from Leiden from a well-to-do family, member of a hockeyclub etc. Other objections, real or invented, were also mentiond: catholic, not a foreigner, not an aristocrat.

Supposedly a family friend, Jkvr. Vanessa Loudon was a favourite candidate for Beatrix though she was never in a relationship with WA. She is the daughter of Jhr. Ronald Loudon, former private secretary of Beatrix and later ambassador in Egypt and a Baroness Bentinck van Schoonheten (related to the Dukes of Portland). The Loudon family was among the founders of Royal Dutch Oil, now merged into Royal Dutch Shell. She later married the CEO of PON holdings, Janus Smalbraak. And alternatively Paulette Schröder was mentioned. She is the daughter of Martinair founder Martin Schröder, a hunting friend of Prince Bernhard. The company now does cargo flights and is part of KLM-Air France but at the time was the second airline of the country. Supposedly there was a short romance in high school. She and her two brothers belonged to the set of friends around the princes as well. Preferences for foreigners were mentioned, lists of photos of German princesses and the single daughters of (ex)-reigning monarchs were featured in the yellow press.

Despite of it Emily became the darling of the media during the years of their relationship 1994-1998. She was on the covers of all magazines nearly every week. On Queen's day there was an Emily Bremers fanclub trying to get WA's attention. Look-a-likes were searched etc. There was even a theatre play, which the minister tried to get de-subsidized. She must have had a difficult time when paparazzis were still more common and camera crews knew where she lived and could easily drive to Leiden for a shot. Journalists tried to talk to her while she walked on the street, sometimes with a camera running. Unacceptable these days. She always behaved in a dignified way and has never said a word about the relationship during or after.

The story was always: when will they get married and will Beatrix stop resisting an engagement. I am not sure the latter was true. The King has said in interviews that if he had to decide between the throne or love he would chose the latter. Had he insisted, Beatrix could not have prevented it. There would have been no way parlament would have ever voted against such a marriage with a perfectly respectable and decent young woman. The relationship simply run its course.

All these stories were pushed to the background when Máxima entered the stage. She was an absolute sensation and eclipsed everything. The story was always how Beatrix liked her right away. Máxima even asked Beatrix as one of the witnesses for the civil wedding. As the national broadcaster NOS said: 'as a gesture of appreciation for the invaluable support she had received from Beatrix in the difficult months before the wedding'.

It is debatable how reliable all the above rumours were. Documents and archives are sealed. Lips are sealed. Reliable biographies of Beatrix do not mention much of it. Jutta Chorus shows in her biography that the press, even serious papers, had a field day with stories about esp. Emily Bremers and how evil mother-in-law Beatrix tried to prevent a marriage and break-up the love birds. This narrative was one in a larger trend in the mid to late 90-ties in both the gossip as the serious press where Beatrix was portrayed as cold, elitist and meddling in state affairs. Starting point was the story of the hasty removal of Dutch ambassador Jhr. Eduard Roëll in South-Africa, just before a state visit of Beatrix to that country in 1995. As a result her popularity sunk from 87% who thought her sympathetic in 1996 to 67% in the year 2000.

Beatrix herself mentioned in a 2005 interview with Dorien Peeters that 'It is logical. My husband and I were absolutely of the same opinion on this, that one looks with a critical eye to the girls whom your sons take home'.

In 2013 former Prime Minister Ruud Lubbers revealed something on a political news show. He always had an excellent connection with Beatrix and inofficially was always regarded as her favourite PM - by far, also on a personal level. His wife Ria Lubbers said to his biographer in 2016 that contact between the two was intense, also as Beatrix had difficulties balancing the perfect Kingship as she envisioned with a sick and depressed husband and three difficult teenage sons. Lubbers was available to correct or reprimand them during puberty. And 'he even picked them up from a café when their mother could not find them.' [...] 'They were extremely obnoxious (strontvervelend) during puberty.' Note that WA later said he would spend many weekends in Apeldoorn with his uncle and aunt because his parents had no clue how to handle him. Long after his departure in politics, in 1999, Lubbers intervened as a buffer between mother and son and told her 'whomever WA takes home, try to be positive'. Lubbers himself said this in the political news show in 2013 and said she also initially had grave reserves about Máxima and Laurentien which quickly disappeared after making an effort to get to know them better.

Although Beatrix appreciated and followed Lubbers advise she did not appreciate him telling it to the press. She never spoke to him again, not even on his death bed. According to friend business woman Silvia Tóth he suffered because of that. He would ask another friend, royal photographer Vincent Mentzel sometimes 'did you hear anything..? The answer was always 'no'. 'It made him truely sad'.

My own impression is that noble titles were not as leading for Beatrix as some may think. Under her reign for a large part aristocrats disappeared from court (though many high ranking ones have connections to the nobility or patriciate still). Dorine Hermans and Daniella Hooghiemstra wrote a whole book with angry former courtiers complaining on how they were sidelined. And had it been so improtant she would not have married Claus but somebody with a more impressive pedigree.

King Carl XVI Gustav said in an interview to the Dutch press before his state visit to the Netherlands in 2009 that Beatrix was 'very ambitious'. His wise wife hastened to add that the King meant that in a positive way. But I think that touches some of it. She was and perhaps still is somebody with high principles, ideals and ambitions. And she expects those from others too, as former PM Van Agt once explained. She shared that with her husband. And it may be why Mabel Wisse Smit -also a commoner- was not considered 'too light' but was welcomed with open arms. As the stepdaughter of a high ranking banker of the RABO-bank, Peter Wisse Smit, socially she would be on a simular level as Minister daughters Máxima and Laurentien. But she had an impressive resumé: being present and having an active role in the negociations that led to the Dayton agreements despite her young age. Co-founder of the European Action Council for Peace in the Balkans with members as Margaret Thatcher, Simon Wiesenthal en Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, co-founder of Warchild Netherlands, director of the Open Society Institute of George Soros and named as one of the Global Leaders for Tomorrow by the World Economic Forum.

As everybody is still alive I think we will have to wait many years before more reliable information will be known. A political biography will throw a crumb here and there. And perhaps less respectable biographies than the one by Chorus may delve more into the rumour mill of the time.

Note that my writing above focusses on problems and discord. It certainly is not representative for the relationships as a whole. It seems that the sons and daughters-in-law have an excellent relationship with Beatrix now. Since the early 2000s I am not aware of any news stories even hinting at problems between them. The 'cold and elitist' narrative also disappeared from the press. On photos and camera images they all seem radiant when meeting each other as well.

The “minor” part or the “noble” part?

The 'minor' part. There would be no reason to object to an aristocrat perse. But him being German having fought in the Wehrmacht as a teenager was simply explosive shortly after the war and led to protests from left to right. Apart from confetti, stones and eggs were thrown at the couple when visiting Utrecht. Old Nazi propaganda posters were plastered around The Hague with the text that Claus needed to return to his 'heimat', or simply saying 'Claus Raus' (Claus out). and Orange Swastikas were painted on walls, accompanied by the letter 'B' (Beatrix). In addition to resistance members and survivors protests the anarchist movement also started a campaign, mostly in Amsterdam.

Minister Luns tried to suggest changing his name to 'George' so at least it would sound less German. The commotion phased out when our national war researcher Prof. Lou de Jong (Jewish himself) -the greatest expert on the topic and leading the national war institute- in a way gave his blessing: he led an investigation into Claus and concluded that there was no reason to object and he could not be held responsible for what happened. The engagement tv interview broke the ice completely: Claus spoke very well Dutch, he was charming and spoke with humility and in appropriate words about the war. After the interview and before the wedding the support for the marriage was at 80% already. As an interesting parallel: Máxima's situation was also solved by an investigation into her father by the leading academic on South-America, Prof. baron Michiel Baud. And that was followed with an engagement interview where she spoke very well Dutch (better than she does now) and spoke with charm, humility etc... And as with Claus most objections disappeared as snow before the -Orange- sun. Or as Bernhard biographer Annejet van der Zijl called it: the Orange fairytale factory.
 
Last edited:
It simply regressed. If you listen to old interviews she speaks much more clearly than she does now. As she is more comfortable with the language now -she speaks fast, without thinking too long- it is easy for a stronger accent to take over. I am sure she understands much more now
These days she sometimes gets subtitled even. The same happened to Prince Claus and Prince Bernard, their German accents became stronger over time. As we age and perhaps become more confident in another language perhaps we become less precise while a bigger effort was made when younger and less fluent.

---
I wonder if the complications that Wilhelmina’s and Juliana’s noble-born consorts brought to their marriages and/or the monarchy, compared to Margriet’s successful choice, influenced their eventual opinons.
I am not sure the complications would have been considered a result of them being noble born TBH. What was important for Wilhelmina was that Juliana´s marriage would be a love match first and foremost. Sadly it escalated to what it became. Though there is little doubt that she loved him, also later in life. While he also married for love, as Annejet van der Zijl states: love of his mother, whom he was now able to take care of. Despite his infidelities and escapades there was never a complete break and they did function as an unconventional married couple. Years later it is now easy to forget that he was a very charming man and at the time the general public liked him. Only now, two decades after his death, he is generally regarded in a much more negative way.

Alternatively, perhaps the feared and actual German occupations of the World Wars crystallized the importance of Dutch identity in their minds? Wilhelmina’s reign also saw the laws of succession to the throne amended to keep the German relatives off the Dutch throne, and then there were the anti-German protests at Beatrix’s wedding.

We were only occupied in WW2. But it was considered pivotal indeed. In London Wilhelmina created a post-war vision for the country. All unified, led by brave resistance fighters and not retreated in a protestant, or catholic, or liberal, or socialist corner but unified and with little class difference. Everything needed to change, starting with the court. Titled people had to be removed and resistance members should replave them. When she returned she moved into a semi-detached house in Scheveningen (The Hague) and was seen cycling in the streets. The ministers soon had to remind her politely that the people would prefer to see her in a palace and a limousine. Some say much to her relief as she missed especially her palace in the woods in Apeldoorn - sho always loathed Noordeinde which reminded her of her lonely childhood years, so much so that when the palace burnt down in 1948 she joked: 'You don't suppose I set the fire?'.

During the was she formulated plans for national renewal - impressions which in her mind had been confirmed by meetings with resistance members in London. In reality these resistance members were too overwhelmed to disagree with the Queen and simply agreed with her, often not fully understanding what point she was making. The return to ´normal´ greatly disappointed her after the war and that, plus exhaustion from tension in the war years, led to her abdication in 1948, which she initially already wanted to do in 1938. She had to be persuaded even to stay on until her golden jubilee and Juliana was a regent twice.

The wish to keep a German off the throne was not due to anti-German sentiments perse. They were not prevalent in that period at all and due to the Boer war the sentiment was perhaps more anti-English to some extend. But the root was a fear that a German prince would be influenced by the German emperor and that would mean that the country would be influenced into giving up neutrality and participate in a European war, which everybody felt was coming somewhere on the horizon.

Well illustrated. Wasn’t it common knowledge that untitled nobility created during the 19th century were, frankly, thick on the ground in Germany and certainly seen as parvenus unsuitable to marry into the German reigning families? A family of the German bourgeoisie with the Van Vollenhovens’ profile would perhaps have ended up ennobled as a “von”.

There are cases of especially the most prestigious patrician families in the Netherlands refusing to be ennobled. They found the lowly predicate of Jonkheer simply thick on the ground indeed and more an insult than an honour.

Interesting. I wonder how right their prognostications were in the short term. Observing what has happened in other monarchies, I think Marijnen and Luns were correct to contemplate that (1) parliamentary support does not always translate to popular support, and (2) even “commoner” members of the general public sometimes – arguably hypocritically – view some royals as “too common”.

It was unchartered territory at the time. In hindsight we can only say that Juliana was right and Luns was wrong.

Again, this is intriguing, especially as to how the foreign minister and the prince consort were close enough for the foreign minister to venture such personal criticisms. Rather funny that Laurentien’s father (who you mentioned is now seen as posher than posh) was perceived by Luns as one of the hippies.

The book says that it was Bernhard who raised the topic with Luns. Not that Bernhard or Juliana greatly appreciated the minister. They thought his ideas on Foreign policy were antiquated. For example he was greatly against the decolonization of New Guinnea, while Bernhard and his wife were in favour. Juliana was always greatly in favour of the decolonization of Indonesia 1 1/2 decade earlier [even Wilhelmina became in favour of it, influenced by the Americans] while Bernhard with his international network also in the US had a modern way of looking at it too.

Diplomats on the other hand were for a long time much more conservative on the matter. I wrote my thesis on diplomats in this period and found letters of ambasadors who -even in the sixties- were wailing how 'we simply gave everything away' while praising the Salazar regime of Portugal for trying to hold on to their colonies in Africa by force and ranting about a conspiracy of decolonized countries that had taken over the UN. Their thinking was outdated and completely counter-trend and stopped with the turn of generations at diplomatic posts in the late 60-ties when foreign policy became far more idealistic. It turned towards the idea that the Netherlands had to be a guiding nation -and to put it bluntly- whose enlightened and idealistic example would surely soon be followed elsewhere. This policy has become much more pragmatic in recent decades. Luns was very much an exponent of this rather old-school conservative diplomatic class of that time and had a hard time accepting that in international relations, after losing its colonies, the Netherlands had become 'like Denmark, a farm on the shores of the North Sea', as a diplomat at the time formulated it.

Whether it was 1962 or 1965, it seems Luns preferred Beatrix to marry an older man.

Interesting indeed, that as late as the 1960s, European royal courts and governments still cooperated with one another in old-fashioned marriage-making.

I wonder why Foreign Minister Luns and Queen Juliana preferred a British consort. Naturally a break with the historical pattern of German consorts would have been w after World War Two, but why British in particular?

Given the anti-German antipathy at the time, I would have thought Prince Richard zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg would have also been crossed off the list of potential matches. Especially as he owned a huge estate in Germany which he could not legally divest himself of.

I would say because it was the most obvious place to look at the time, due to the fact that there were simply a lot of protestant noblemen around who had no connections to Nazism. An English marriage would have been uncomplicated and very popular, considering the role of the UK in our liberation.

Unlike Claus, Prince Richard did not participate in the Wehrmacht as he was too young. And at least his mother was Swedish so I think it would have been met with less resistance.

The pattern of German marriages was not by choice perse but by necessity. For Juliana there was a great preference for 'anything but a German', due to the rise of Nazism and political complications. But the reality was that there were simply a lot of German princes. While other [Swedish] options never materialized that is where the focus went.

Over centuries the house of Orange was always considered very pro-British/ English. An English candidate would always be considered first. Sometimes to their disadvantage, during the various sea wars with the English, which tanked Orange popularity.

Stadholders Willem II, Willem III and Willem IV all married English princessses. Olaf van Nimwegens biography writes that Willem V wanted an English bride for himself as well. His preferred candidate Carolina Mathilda however was soon engaged to the King of Denmark. George III suggested his other sister Louise, who was sickly and died at 19 y/o and was not an option in The Hague. King George III suggested his kinswoman Augusta Dorothea of Brunswick as an alternative and said that a Prussian princess would be unacceptable. Frederick the Great however communicated -to The Hague and to Brunswick- that a Duchess of Brunswick would be unacceptable to him and always championed his favourite niece Wilhelmina of Prussia. A Danish princess was unacceptable to the city of Amsterdam, who wanted to maintain good relations with both Denmark as Sweden to ensure the very profitable trade in the Baltic Sea. In the end Willem decided not to go for the sickly Louise or a mere Duchess. Since he could not be married to Caroline Mathilde he went for Wilhelmina of Prussia. One of the many strong women who married into the family.

For King Willem I (initially prince Willem VI) for the first time a British bride was not contemplated. As Wilhelmina's brother Frederik William II and Prussian armies had restored the house of Orange in The Hague, during the chaotic years close to the French revolution in 1787. To strengthen the Hohenzollern connection they went for a Prussian princess. The eldest one, Frederica, was hoped to marry the Duke of York and they ended up with the second daughter, also a Wilhelmina. To balance this Prussian alliance, it was suggested to ask for the hand of one of George III's daughters for Prince Frederik (younger son of WIllem V). Willem V refused, thinking George III would regard it as an insult as Frederik was only the younger son. And he was afraid that a rival court would arise as he wrote to his wife: 'English princesses are very arrogant. Three royal highnesses in The Hague is a lot, and perhaps the wife of the younger son will want to take presidence over the wife of the elder'. As fate has it, after the family fled to London during the French invasion, Prince Frederik and George III's daughter Pss Mary fell in love. George III however wanted his elder daughters to marry first. Frederik sadly died in the army before any wedding could have taken place. Mary was allowed to go into mourning for him. Years later she would marry her cousin the Duke of Gloucester.

Willem II was engaged to Pss Charlotte of Wales. Neither of the two was very excited by the idea. The engagement was halted after Queen Caroline convinced her daughter not to accept the preferred candidate of her hated husband George IV. Charlotte was never very impressed by Willem and was happy she did not have to move to The Hague. After this his father hoped that a Habsburg marriage [to Archduchesses Leopoldine or Clementine, daughters of Franz II] could take place as it would cement the North and the South of his new Kingdom. But Willem II was utterly star-struck by the Russian Tsar, became on friendly turns with him and after he was offered Anna's hand in marriage The Hague could not refuse such an offer by what was then the most powerful man in Europe.

Willem III and his brother had also been introduced to Queen Victoria at a ball in London. Although she liked their father Willem II Victoria considered them both looking 'very ordinairy and absolutely unlovable'. While travelling through Germany to meet suitable princesses Willem (III) met Augusta of Cambridge. Although he liked her personality and thought she had a pretty face he was physically not attracted: she was too short and somewhat fat and 'looks like she is 24 y/o alrready' (she was 16). He feared that in a few years she would 'have the colossal proportions of her aunt the Princess of Hesse Homburg'. Other German princesses he met were also not considered pretty or tall enough. In reality he already had his heart set on one of his Wurttemberg cousins, whom he had known and seen often over the years. It would lead to the marriage with Queen Sophie, which was an absolute disaster. And he did so very much against the wishes of his mother Queen Anna, who -according to Sophie- always disliked her sister Queen Catherina Pavlovna of Wurttemberg and who by extention disliked her daughters too. For Willem's second marriage no English princess was considered, as everybody including the King knew it would not be acceptable [Queen Victoria never liked him]. After enquiries to marry one of his Weimar nieces were politely declined, his sister Grand Duchess Sophie of Weimar nodded him towards Waldeck, where the ambitious Princess Helena (of Nassau) had a lot of daughters and was eager for prestigious matches. I imagine they would think she would overlook the bad reputation and enormous age difference, which she did. Although his brother Hendrik married a Prussian princess this was not an option for Willem III who greatly disliked the Hohenzollerns and Prussia, one of the few things he had in common with his first wife Queen Sophie.

For Wilhelmina's half-brother (and WIllem III's and Sophie's eldest son) Crown Prince Willem, a British bride was the first and most desired wish of his parents and especially of the anglophile and liberal Sophie. Sadly he did not make a good impression on Queen Victoria and an anticipated enagement to Pss Alice never went ahead, though it was originally a plan of prince Albert. Later half-hearted enquires for Louise and Helena were always rebuffed from London.

In Wilhelmina's days an English candidate was out of the question due to the Boer wars, though one of the Teck princes was considered, but not accepted due to the war ánd due to Queen Emma's [German] distaste for a mesalliance with a member of the morganatic branch of the house of Wurttemberg.

Before the war an English prince would have been preferred for Juliana, but there simply were not (m)any princes around. The idea of a mere nobleman was still a bridge too far. Early on the press speculated about Viscount Trematon, son and heir of the Earl of Athlone and Wilhelmina's much liked first cousin Alice of Athlone. Sadly he died in a car crash when he was 21. Had he lived I doubt a marriage would ever have happened due to health concerns and Juliana being the sole heiress. It was important that she would have healthy offspring and a marriage to a second cousin who suffered from haemopholia would have been concerning in that regard.

I hope it’s not true that Queen Beatrix blocked a political appointment over a personal grudge, but I suppose we’ll never know for sure.

We will not know to what extend it played a role. But Beatrix would certainly not have been alone in her dislike. Luns was a hero for the conservatives but anybody progressive disliked him, and usually disliked him strongly. He was minister of foreign affairs for 19 years. When he left he was considered somebody with ideas that were out-of-date, oldfashioned and The Hague was happy to see the back of him. An atlantisist by heart, NATO was the perfect place for him afterwards.
 
Last edited:
Marengo, thank you wholeheartedly again for sharing this rich trove of information. And I very much appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions and clarify the events I wondered about.

I will likely have more comments later, but to begin with:

We were only occupied in WW2. But it was considered pivotal indeed. In London Wilhelmina created a post-war vision for the country. All unified, led by brave resistance fighters and not retreated in a protestant, or catholic, or liberal, or socialist corner but unified and with little class difference. Everything needed to change, starting with the court. Titled people had to be removed and resistance members should replave them. When she returned she moved into a semi-detached house in Scheveningen (The Hague) and was seen cycling in the streets. The ministers soon had to remind her politely that the people would prefer to see her in a palace and a limousine. Some say much to her relief as she missed especially her palace in the woods in Apeldoorn - sho always loathed Noordeinde which reminded her of her lonely childhood years, so much so that when the palace burnt down in 1948 she joked: 'You don't suppose I set the fire?'.

During the was she formulated plans for national renewal - impressions which in her mind had been confirmed by meetings with resistance members in London. In reality these resistance members were too overwhelmed to disagree with the Queen and simply agreed with her, often not fully understanding what point she was making. The return to ´normal´ greatly disappointed her after the war and that, plus exhaustion from tension in the war years, led to her abdication in 1948, which she initially already wanted to do in 1938. She had to be persuaded even to stay on until her golden jubilee and Juliana was a regent twice.

Few people, certainly few powerful heads of state in their sixties, drastically pivot their social views as you describe Wilhelmina doing. It is fascinating how the world war changed everything, at least in her eyes.

When she returned she moved into a semi-detached house in Scheveningen (The Hague) and was seen cycling in the streets. The ministers soon had to remind her politely that the people would prefer to see her in a palace and a limousine.

So that is where the sometimes complimentary, sometimes dismissive British description of the continental European monarchies as “bicycling monarchies” comes from!
 
Back
Top Bottom