Luxembourg Succession & Titles

[Tatiana Maria]

Interesting question about the title. The reason for the claim is that Grand Duchess Charlotte was married to prince Felix of Bourbon-Parma. So, from that perspective her descendants in male-line in approved marriages would be prince(sse)s of Bourbon-Parma as well. The current head of the family is Carlos who fought in Dutch court against his own out-of-wedlock son to not get the princely title, so he surely would not approve of this use by Gabriel.

The difference between Carlos's out-of-wedlock son and Gabriel is that Gabriel's parents eventually married, which under Luxembourg law (and the laws of most countries, I think) legitimated him.

Legilux

legilux.public.lu

So, unless the title was also incorporated in the Luxembourgian nobility as a separate title which regulates that out-of-wedlock children also have a right to this title, it seems unlikely that he has a right to this title. He was only granted the title 'prince of Nassau' at some point by his grandfather.

Prince Felix was indeed incorporated into the Luxembourg nobility, as "Félix Marie Vincent Prince of Bourbon of Parma", the day before his marriage to Grand Duchess Charlotte. Unfortunately, the letters patent (which I assume would contain the details of how his title was to be transmitted) don't appear to be accessible online.

Legilux

legilux.public.lu

 

[hereditarytitles]

Thank you all for contributing infos about the title issue. It is new but typical for Tessy to use that title for her sons now after most family members are not using it.

 

[duke of poliganc]

But didn’t the Grand Duke niece Archduchess Gabriella have a daughter with then fiancée a prince of bourbon Parma before they eventually married and their daughter is styled as princess of bourbon Parma?

 

[crm2317]

Yes she married Prince Henri of Bourbon Parma and their children are styled as princesses of Bourbon Parma because of their father, not because of Archduchess Gabriella.

 

[blooms_rulers]

But didn’t the Grand Duke niece Archduchess Gabriella have a daughter with then fiancée a prince of bourbon Parma before they eventually married and their daughter is styled as princess of bourbon Parma?

Yes, they married, so the child born before the marriage is legitimated. Whether the marriage between Gabriella and Henri was approved by Carlos is unknown, but he's not as strict regarding marriage equality as his father was (and Gabriella would definitely qualify as an equal bride).

 

[duke of poliganc]

Yes she married Prince Henri of Bourbon Parma and their children are styled as princesses of Bourbon Parma because of their father, not because of Archduchess Gabriella.

Yes, my example was just about the house of bourbon Parma giving the title of prince/ss to children born before their parents marriage.

 

[JR76]

Yes, my example was just about the house of bourbon Parma giving the title of prince/ss to children born before their parents marriage.

Did we ever see official confirmation regarding the girl's pre-marriage title or was it just what was communicated by her close family?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Did we ever see official confirmation regarding the girl's pre-marriage title or was it just what was communicated by her close family?

Before her parents' marriage, the grand-ducal court referred to her as "daughter Victoria", while her Limburg Stirum cousins were referred to in the same press release by their Count titles.

98e anniversaire de Son Altesse Royale le Grand-Duc Jean | Cour grand-ducale

Son Altesse Royale le Grand-Duc Jean, né au Château de Berg le 5 janvier 1921, célébrera ce samedi ses 98 ans.

www.monarchie.lu

After her parents' marriage, the grand-ducal court named her as H.R.H. Princess Victoria of Bourbon of Parma.

Retrouvailles familiales au Château de Berg | Cour grand-ducale

LL.AA.RR. le Grand-Duc et la Grande-Duchesse ont accueilli la Famille grand-ducale au Château de Berg pour des retrouvailles en amont du concert commémorant le 100e anniversaire de naissance de S.A.R. le Grand-Duc Jean

monarchie.lu

 

[Somebody]

Interestingly, the way they addressed Marie-Christine also changed from S.A.I.R. la Comtesse Marie-Christine de Limburg-Stirum to S.A.I.R. l'Archiduchesse Marie-Christine d'Autriche.

 

[meeralakshmi]

Technically, it is the bylaw to the Family Pact which states the rule.

Legilux

legilux.public.lu

It really is extraordinary that the "paternal surname" law is applicable to all of Grand Duchess Charlotte's marital descendants (save for the children of a Grand Duchess or Hereditary Grand Duchess).

Pursuant to §4b of the bylaw (as it was rewritten in 2012 by Grand Duke Henri), it applies to all marital descendants of the Grand-Ducal House and Grand-Ducal Family (excepting the children of a Grand Duchess or Hereditary Grand Duchess). The Grand-Ducal Family is defined in §2 as being comprised of all descendants of Grand Duchess Charlotte, as well as their spouses and widow(er)s.

And so it will be illegal under the Nassau house laws for Bartholomew Townsend (the youngest child of the youngest child of the youngest child of Grand Duchess Charlotte) and his hypothetical future wife to name their children using their mother's last name – even though Bartholomew is British and in all likelihood has no awareness that he is a member of the Grand-Ducal Family of Luxembourg.

Frankly, assuming Bartholomew does not marry a Luxembourg citizen, how is the surname of Bartholomew Townsend and Jane Doe's children any of the Grand Duke of Luxembourg's business?

How can Grand Duke Henri expect his decision to be enforceable in the United Kingdom's register offices where Bartholomew would probably register the name of his future child?

Completely agree, it makes no sense for Henri to mandate that every single descendant of Grand Duchess Charlotte must have their father’s last name for perpetuity. If they’re several generations removed from the Luxembourgish royal family then why should it matter? And yet Henri continues to use his grandma’s maiden name Luxembourg-Nassau rather than his agnatic surname Bourbon-Parma.

 

[meeralakshmi]

And so it will be illegal under the Nassau house laws for Bartholomew Townsend (the youngest child of the youngest child of the youngest child of Grand Duchess Charlotte) and his hypothetical future wife to name their children using their mother's last name – even though Bartholomew is British and in all likelihood has no awareness that he is a member of the Grand-Ducal Family of Luxembourg.

That said I think Bartholomew is aware he’s related to the Luxembourgish royal family as his grandma Princess Alix of Luxembourg only passed away in 2019. Unless you mean that he isn’t aware that because he’s descended from Grand Duchess Charlotte his kids have to have his last name.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

That said I think Bartholomew is aware he’s related to the Luxembourgish royal family as his grandma Princess Alix of Luxembourg only passed away in 2019. Unless you mean that he isn’t aware that because he’s descended from Grand Duchess Charlotte his kids have to have his last name.

I agree. Bartholomew Townsend must be aware that his grandmother was a Princess of Luxembourg. But he is probably unaware that he himself is legally a member of the Grand-Ducal Family of Luxembourg. And he is very, very likely unaware that there is a house law which legally requires his potential marital children to carry his surname.

Bartholomew's mother Yolande uses the name Mrs. Hugo Townsend. If she has become a British citizen and legally changed from her father's surname "de Ligne" to her husband's surname "Townsend", as most British married women do, then she is violating the Luxembourg house law, which mandates her to carry her father's surname. (Among citizens of Luxembourg, women traditionally carry their father's legal surname for life, even if they are known by their husbands' surnames after marriage.) Which is another illustration of why that house law is so poorly conceived.

 

[meeralakshmi]

Bartholomew's mother Yolande uses the name Mrs. Hugo Townsend.

May I ask how you know this?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

May I ask how you know this?

She and her husband were styled as "Mr. and H.H. Mrs Hugo Townsend" in the announcement of her father's death in 2005 and as "Mr. and Mrs. Hugo Townsend" for her mother's passing in 2019.

 

[Mbruno]

I agree. Bartholomew Townsend must be aware that his grandmother was a Princess of Luxembourg. But he is probably unaware that he himself is legally a member of the Grand-Ducal Family of Luxembourg. And he is very, very likely unaware that there is a house law which legally requires his potential marital children to carry his surname.

Bartholomew's mother Yolande uses the name Mrs. Hugo Townsend. If she has become a British citizen and legally changed from her father's surname "de Ligne" to her husband's surname "Townsend", as most British married women do, then she is violating the Luxembourg house law, which mandates her to carry her father's surname. (Among citizens of Luxembourg, women traditionally carry their father's legal surname for life, even if they are known by their husbands' surnames after marriage.) Which is another illustration of why that house law is so poorly conceived.

Sorry, I haven't followed the discussion but what are the consequences of violating the House Law ? Certainly the House Law is not applicable in the United Kingdom and has no bearing on British naming law.

At most, I imagine that violating the House Law could mean loss of dynastic rights in Luxembourg, but, as far as I understand, Princess Yolande and her children already have no succession rights, so what dynastic rights could they lose by using the family name Townsend in England?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Sorry, I haven't followed the discussion but what are the consequences of violating the House Law ?

As far as I can tell, there are no real consequences to violating this particular house law. Which is another reason I think it is presumptuous: What is the point of enacting a law which is realistically impossible to enforce?

At most, I imagine that violating the House Law could mean loss of dynastic rights in Luxembourg, but, as far as I understand, Princess Yolande and her children already have no succession rights, so what dynastic rights could they lose by using the family name Townsend in England?

Succession rights to the Luxembourg throne are, since 1 July 2023, governed by the Constitution of the Grand Duchy. All marital-born descendants of Grand Duke Adolph have a right to the throne, unless they personally renounce it. So the Townsends are in line to the Luxembourg throne (which I also find ridiculous, but that is what the Parliament of Luxembourg decided).

Art. 56.

(1) La fonction de Chef de l’État est héréditaire dans la descendance directe de Son Altesse Royale Adolphe, Grand-Duc de Luxembourg, Duc de Nassau, par ordre de primogéniture et par représentation. Seuls les enfants nés d’un mariage ont le droit de succéder.

(2) La personne en droit de succéder peut y renoncer. Cette renonciation intervient sous forme d’un acte écrit qui est irrévocable et dont les effets ne s’appliquent qu’à l’auteur.

[...]​

 

[meeralakshmi]

As far as I can tell, there are no real consequences to violating this particular house law. Which is another reason I think it is presumptuous: What is the point of enacting a law which is realistically impossible to enforce?



Succession rights to the Luxembourg throne are, since 1 July 2023, governed by the Constitution of the Grand Duchy. All marital-born descendants of Grand Duke Adolph have a right to the throne, unless they personally renounce it. So the Townsends are in line to the Luxembourg throne (which I also find ridiculous, but that is what the Parliament of Luxembourg decided).

Art. 56.​

​

(1) La fonction de Chef de l’État est héréditaire dans la descendance directe de Son Altesse Royale Adolphe, Grand-Duc de Luxembourg, Duc de Nassau, par ordre de primogéniture et par représentation. Seuls les enfants nés d’un mariage ont le droit de succéder.​

​

(2) La personne en droit de succéder peut y renoncer. Cette renonciation intervient sous forme d’un acte écrit qui est irrévocable et dont les effets ne s’appliquent qu’à l’auteur.​

​

[...]​

I don’t believe the succession law of 2011 is retroactive as sources state that the last person in line to the throne is Prince Robert’s son Prince Alexandre. The only women in the line of succession are the descendants of Henri (so Amalia, Alexandra, and Victoire).

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I don’t believe the succession law of 2011 is retroactive as sources state that the last person in line to the throne is Prince Robert’s son Prince Alexandre. The only women in the line of succession are the descendants of Henri (so Amalia, Alexandra, and Victoire).

Those people are wrong. Nothing in the Constitution (which, since 2023, governs the succession to the throne) supports their interpretation.

You can read the Constitution (in French) on Legilux, the official portal of Luxembourg legislation.

Legilux

legilux.public.lu

If you prefer, @Somebody posted an unofficial translation of the Constitution's succession law here:

Luxembourg Succession & Titles

Few Nobiity in Luxembourg.

www.theroyalforums.com

Article 56.

(1)The office of Head of State is hereditary in the direct descendants of His Royal Highness Adolphe, Grand Duke of Luxembourg, Duke of Nassau, in order of primogeniture and representation. Only children born of a marriage have the right to succeed.

(2)The person entitled to succeed may renounce it. This waiver takes the form of a written act which is irrevocable and whose effects apply only to the author.

When exceptional circumstances so require, the Chamber of Deputies may exclude one or more persons from the order of succession by a law adopted by a qualified majority.

(3) In the absence of a successor, the Chamber of Deputies shall meet no later than thirty days of the death or abdication of the Grand Duke with a view to appointing a new Head of State. The decision shall be adopted by qualified majority.

(4) The abdication of the Grand Duke requires the form of a written act which is irrevocable.

Article 132.

The provisions of Article 56 shall for the first time apply to the descendants of His Royal Highness Henri, Grand Duke of Luxembourg, Duke of Nassau.​

 

[Mbruno]

Those people are wrong. Nothing in the Constitution (which, since 2023, governs the succession to the throne) supports their interpretation.

You can read the Constitution (in French) on Legilux, the official portal of Luxembourg legislation.

Legilux

legilux.public.lu

If you prefer, @Somebody posted an unofficial translation of the Constitution's succession law here:

Luxembourg Succession & Titles

Few Nobiity in Luxembourg.

www.theroyalforums.com

Article 56.​

​

(1)The office of Head of State is hereditary in the direct descendants of His Royal Highness Adolphe, Grand Duke of Luxembourg, Duke of Nassau, in order of primogeniture and representation. Only children born of a marriage have the right to succeed.​

​

(2)The person entitled to succeed may renounce it. This waiver takes the form of a written act which is irrevocable and whose effects apply only to the author.​

​

When exceptional circumstances so require, the Chamber of Deputies may exclude one or more persons from the order of succession by a law adopted by a qualified majority.​

​

(3) In the absence of a successor, the Chamber of Deputies shall meet no later than thirty days of the death or abdication of the Grand Duke with a view to appointing a new Head of State. The decision shall be adopted by qualified majority.​

​

(4) The abdication of the Grand Duke requires the form of a written act which is irrevocable.​

​

Article 132.​

​

The provisions of Article 56 shall for the first time apply to the descendants of His Royal Highness Henri, Grand Duke of Luxembourg, Duke of Nassau.​

Those people are wrong. Nothing in the Constitution (which, since 2023, governs the succession to the throne) supports their interpretation.

You can read the Constitution (in French) on Legilux, the official portal of Luxembourg legislation.

Legilux

legilux.public.lu

If you prefer, @Somebody posted an unofficial translation of the Constitution's succession law here:

Luxembourg Succession & Titles

Few Nobiity in Luxembourg.

www.theroyalforums.com

Article 56.​

​

(1)The office of Head of State is hereditary in the direct descendants of His Royal Highness Adolphe, Grand Duke of Luxembourg, Duke of Nassau, in order of primogeniture and representation. Only children born of a marriage have the right to succeed.​

​

(2)The person entitled to succeed may renounce it. This waiver takes the form of a written act which is irrevocable and whose effects apply only to the author.​

​

When exceptional circumstances so require, the Chamber of Deputies may exclude one or more persons from the order of succession by a law adopted by a qualified majority.​

​

(3) In the absence of a successor, the Chamber of Deputies shall meet no later than thirty days of the death or abdication of the Grand Duke with a view to appointing a new Head of State. The decision shall be adopted by qualified majority.​

​

(4) The abdication of the Grand Duke requires the form of a written act which is irrevocable.​

​

Article 132.​

​

The provisions of Article 56 shall for the first time apply to the descendants of His Royal Highness Henri, Grand Duke of Luxembourg, Duke of Nassau.​

I am not really familiar with Luxembourgish succession rules, but doesn't Article 132 support Meeralakshmi's interpretation?

 

[meeralakshmi]

Those people are wrong. Nothing in the Constitution (which, since 2023, governs the succession to the throne) supports their interpretation.

You can read the Constitution (in French) on Legilux, the official portal of Luxembourg legislation.

Legilux

legilux.public.lu

If you prefer, @Somebody posted an unofficial translation of the Constitution's succession law here:

Luxembourg Succession & Titles

Few Nobiity in Luxembourg.

www.theroyalforums.com

Article 56.​

​

(1)The office of Head of State is hereditary in the direct descendants of His Royal Highness Adolphe, Grand Duke of Luxembourg, Duke of Nassau, in order of primogeniture and representation. Only children born of a marriage have the right to succeed.​

​

(2)The person entitled to succeed may renounce it. This waiver takes the form of a written act which is irrevocable and whose effects apply only to the author.​

​

When exceptional circumstances so require, the Chamber of Deputies may exclude one or more persons from the order of succession by a law adopted by a qualified majority.​

​

(3) In the absence of a successor, the Chamber of Deputies shall meet no later than thirty days of the death or abdication of the Grand Duke with a view to appointing a new Head of State. The decision shall be adopted by qualified majority.​

​

(4) The abdication of the Grand Duke requires the form of a written act which is irrevocable.​

​

Article 132.​

​

The provisions of Article 56 shall for the first time apply to the descendants of His Royal Highness Henri, Grand Duke of Luxembourg, Duke of Nassau.​

From Luxembourg’s monarchy’s website: The constitutional monarchy | Cour grand-ducale

“On 20 June 2011, by order of Grand Duke Henri, the Marshal of the Court announced a new internal regulation introducing absolute primogeniture to the order of succession within the House of Luxembourg-Nassau. This guarantees equality between men and women in terms of succession to the Throne. This new order of succession first applies to the descendants of Grand Duke Henri.”

I am not really familiar with Luxembourgish succession rules, but doesn't Article 132 support Meeralakshmi's interpretation?

Correct, source cited in the message below yours.

I am not really familiar with Luxembourgish succession rules, but doesn't Article 132 support Meeralakshmi's interpretation?

Article 132.

The provisions of Article 56 shall for the first time apply to the descendants of His Royal Highness Henri, Grand Duke of Luxembourg, Duke of Nassau.

I also didn’t even catch this part when reading her message lol. The line of succession is:

1. Guillaume, Hereditary Grand Duke of Luxembourg
2. Prince Charles of Luxembourg
3. Prince François of Luxembourg
4. Prince Félix of Luxembourg
5. Princess Amalia of Nassau
6. Prince Liam of Nassau
7. Prince Balthazar of Nassau
8. Princess Alexandra of Luxembourg
9. Victoire Bagory
10. Prince Sébastien of Luxembourg
11. Prince Guillaume of Luxembourg
12. Prince Paul-Louis of Nassau
13. Prince Léopold of Nassau
14. Prince Jean of Nassau
15. Prince Robert of Luxembourg
16. Prince Alexandre of Nassau

 

[Tatiana Maria]

From Luxembourg’s monarchy’s website: The constitutional monarchy | Cour grand-ducale

“On 20 June 2011, by order of Grand Duke Henri, the Marshal of the Court announced a new internal regulation introducing absolute primogeniture to the order of succession within the House of Luxembourg-Nassau. This guarantees equality between men and women in terms of succession to the Throne. This new order of succession first applies to the descendants of Grand Duke Henri.”

Yes, that's correct. But bear in mind that since the constitutional reform of July 1, 2023, Grand Duke Henri no longer has any authority over the line of succession to the throne - it is the Constitution which regulates that now. So Henri's 2011 and 2012 updates to the house law are no longer of any relevance (though obviously Parliament chose to continue using absolute primogeniture). Unfortunately, the Grand Ducal website hasn't fully updated to reflect that.

Both the 2011-2012 house laws and the 2023 constitutional transitory provision say that the succession laws apply "for the first time" to Henri's descendants. But that does not mean e.g. Alexandre is in line and his sister Charlotte is not. Please read the following posts written by @Fence Sitter and me, and see what you think.

Luxembourg Succession & Titles

Few Nobiity in Luxembourg.

www.theroyalforums.com

Luxembourg Succession & Titles

Few Nobiity in Luxembourg.

www.theroyalforums.com

 

[meeralakshmi]

Both the 2011-2012 house laws and the 2023 constitutional transitory provision say that the succession laws apply "for the first time" to Henri's descendants. But that does not mean e.g. Alexandre is in line and his sister Charlotte is not. Please read the following posts written by @Fence Sitter and me, and see what you think.

I’d have to disagree, I think it means that the new law only applies to the descendants of Henri. If his line were to go extinct as Fence Sitter brought up absolute primogeniture would apply to the new line and any future lines (that’s what I take “for the first time” to mean).

 

[Tatiana Maria]

If his line were to go extinct as Fence Sitter brought up absolute primogeniture would apply to the new line and any future lines (that’s what I take “for the first time” to mean).

That is my interpretation of the Constitution, and I think it is Fence Sitter’s interpretation too. In other words, I think that if Henri and every one of his descendants were to die in a freak accident tomorrow, the next monarch – according to what the Constitution currently says – would be his oldest sister Marie-Astrid.


The reason I say that the popular claim “males outside Henri’s line can inherit, but females outside Henri’s line can’t” is wrong is that there is simply no wording in the Constitution that distinguishes between “males outside Henri’s line” and “females outside Henri’s line”.

Article 56 mentions “the direct descendants of His Royal Highness Adolphe”. Article 132 mentions “the descendants of His Royal Highness Henri”. That is it for mentions of the grand dukes’ descendants in the Constitution.

So, where would the alleged rule that “males outside Henri’s line can inherit, but females outside Henri’s line can’t” come from? It is nowhere in the Constitution, and the Constitution is the highest law of the land.

 

[meeralakshmi]

That is my interpretation of the Constitution, and I think it is Fence Sitter’s interpretation too. In other words, I think that if Henri and every one of his descendants were to die in a freak accident tomorrow, the next monarch – according to what the Constitution currently says – would be his oldest sister Marie-Astrid.


The reason I say that the popular claim “males outside Henri’s line can inherit, but females outside Henri’s line can’t” is wrong is that there is simply no wording in the Constitution that distinguishes between “males outside Henri’s line” and “females outside Henri’s line”.

Article 56 mentions “the direct descendants of His Royal Highness Adolphe”. Article 132 mentions “the descendants of His Royal Highness Henri”. That is it for mentions of the grand dukes’ descendants in the Constitution.

So, where would the alleged rule that “males outside Henri’s line can inherit, but females outside Henri’s line can’t” come from? It is nowhere in the Constitution, and the Constitution is the highest law of the land.

I believe the constitution states that absolute primogeniture applies to Henri’s descendants alone and the previous semi-Salic succession applies to everyone else because they don’t want to retroactively change the line of succession.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I believe the constitution states that absolute primogeniture applies to Henri’s descendants alone and the previous semi-Salic succession applies to everyone else

But the Constitution doesn't state that the historical semi-Salic succession rules apply to everyone else. Like you said, legislators need to state (or at least imply) what they want to happen. If the legislators wanted the historical semi-Salic order of succession to apply to most branches of the family, they would have needed to state or imply that somewhere.

But the Constitution never mentions “the previous law”, “the previous order of succession”, “semi-Salic succession”, “male-preference succession”, or any other wording that could be taken as referring to the historical succession rules.

There’s no need to take my word on that – everyone is welcome to read the entire Constitution for themselves. (If you or anyone else do find something I missed, please let me know!)

Legilux

legilux.public.lu

because they don’t want to retroactively change the line of succession.

That’s exactly it According to the legislators, they inserted “for the first time” to ensure that Henri’s succession in 2000 would not be retroactively voided, since Henri has an older sister. They did not want the Constitution to apply to the past; they wanted it to apply to the future.

As they explained, by “the first time” they meant that the rules apply to future successions, starting with the succession to Henri.

Afin de lever toute ambiguïté juridique, il est précisé que les règles de succession au trône décrites à l’article 44 de la proposition de révision ne s’appliqueront pas rétroactivement, mais pour la première fois à la succession du Grand-Duc Henri.​

Translation:

In order to remove any legal ambiguity, it is specified that the rules of succession to the throne described in article 44 of the proposed revision will not apply retroactively, but for the first time to the succession to Grand Duke Henri.​

https://wdocs-pub.chd.lu/docs/exped/0114/122/229221.pdf

“For the first time to the succession to Grand Duke Henri” means that the Constitution’s rules will apply to determine who will succeed Grand Duke Henri as the next monarch.

(That is why I think, if all Henri’s descendants dropped dead tomorrow, it would be Marie-Astrid and not Guillaume who would succeed him when he abdicates.)