LGBTQ+ Royalty

[Alison H]

What exactly is the difference between an unequal and a morganatic marriage?

A morganatic marriage is one in which the spouse doesn't share the titled person's title or style (although, in many cases, a lesser title has been granted to them), and the children have no rights of succession. However, it doesn't affect the title or style of the partner who was born royal.

In the case of Carl Gustaf's sisters, who made unequal marriages, they themselves were stripped of the style of HRH.

 

[meeralakshmi]

While I agree with what you're saying here, that really isn't how equality has worked in the past and certainly isn't how royalty and nobility has worked in the past. Rather than addressing issues that could come up in the future, succession and inheritance laws instead wait until they've actually come up.

You can look at this two ways: on the one hand the wife of a titled individual is entitled to a courtesy title based on their husband's title. On the other hand a man does not take the titles of his wife by courtesy.

I prefer to look at it the second way because it doesn't put a gay man into the position of "being the wife." A man does not take the titles of his spouse, regardless of what gender his spouse is. At the same time, a woman does not extend her titles to her spouse, regardless of what gender her spouse is.

It may not be "equality" but it's a discrimination based on gender, not sexuality, and is seen in the treatment of titles in same-sexed relationships as well.

If this were to be changed it would need to be changed overall - allowing for the titles spouse's partner to use the appropriate gendered titles by courtesy. Although, even then you run into problems as you can't have two Dukes of Y or Duchesses of X.

In all likelihood if Harry married a man (which I would say is unlikely in itself given his dating history. Even were he gay, it seems as though he's made the decision to pursue women) then letters patent would be issued granting the male partner titles of some form, similar to what happened when Princess Elizabeth and Princess Margaret married men - their husbands were granted titles. I would expect that Harry would be given a dukedom, similar to what his brother and uncle got, while the spouse would be given an Earldom and perhaps an HRH.
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In Spain there were two Duchesses of Medina Sidonia as long as both women were alive because Spain generally allows people to use their spouses’ titles regardless of the genders of the couple. After the duchess in her own right passed away her widow became known as the Dowager Duchess which is the standard title of a widowed consort.

Don't know if these royals were mentioned already - HSH Prince Pierre of Monaco, Count of Polignac, HSH Prince Rainier's father; HRH Prince Andrew of Greece and Denmark (HRH The Duke of Edinburgh's father). There was also much talk about the DoE's uncle, Lord Louis Mountbatten of Burma (ne HSH Prince Louis of Battenburg). Ironically, all 3 men were said to have ran with the same circle of friends, especially Pierre and Andrew. I have read also that the Earl Mountbatten's wife, née Edwina Ashley, was a known lesbian. Anyone know if the rumors about both the Duke and Duchess of Windsor being homosexual had any underlying truths to them?

Another Mountbatten woman rumored to be a lesbian is Nadejda Mountbatten, Marchioness of Milford Haven. Her grandson Lord Ivar Mountbatten is openly gay and married a man recently.

 

[Lady Chiara]

There's also been a young prince (in his 30s I think) who married his boyfriend a couple of years ago. He is from one of the Germanic houses, I don't remember which one.

In general, I'm very curious (and hopeful) to see how same sex relationships and gender non-conformity will be handled by the various reigning and non-reigning houses now that we live in a world that is more accepting and hopefully young (or not young) LGBTQ+ royals will feel comfortable enough to come out.

 

[meeralakshmi]

There's also been a young prince (in his 30s I think) who married his boyfriend a couple of years ago. He is from one of the Germanic houses, I don't remember which one.

In general, I'm very curious (and hopeful) to see how same sex relationships and gender non-conformity will be handled by the various reigning and non-reigning houses now that we live in a world that is more accepting and hopefully young (or not young) LGBTQ+ royals will feel comfortable enough to come out.

Hopefully same-sex spouses (and male spouses and spouses of female royals in general) will receive the same treatment as women who marry royal men. Same-sex spouses will also hopefully be treated as as normal a part of the royal family as opposite-sex spouses.

There's also been a young prince (in his 30s I think) who married his boyfriend a couple of years ago. He is from one of the Germanic houses, I don't remember which one.

In general, I'm very curious (and hopeful) to see how same sex relationships and gender non-conformity will be handled by the various reigning and non-reigning houses now that we live in a world that is more accepting and hopefully young (or not young) LGBTQ+ royals will feel comfortable enough to come out.

In 2013 an Indian prince married his American boyfriend, the husband surprisingly received a title though it wasn't the equivalent of his husband's. He is considered the world's first openly gay prince. There have been two trans peers in the UK (as far as I know):

- Sir Ewan Forbes, 11th Baronet - He was able to inherit his father's baronetcy after coming out as trans and legally changing his gender to male.
- Matilda Simon, 3rd Baroness Simon of Wythenshawe - She came out as trans after inheriting her father's barony when she still identified as male.

 

[Meraude]

I once read that King Gutav adolf of Sweden was homosexual but as he was married twice I don't know if that is true.

Even if this post is from 2005 a comment.
There have been three Swedish kings with the name of Gustav Adolf, namely Gustav II Adolf (died 1632), Gustav IV Adolf (died 1837), and Gustav VI Adolf (died 1973), so which one of those is the one in the post?

The closest thing in Sweden regarding royals having a gay lover was King Gustav V and the Haijby scandal. Gustav V was the father of Gustav VI Adolf, maybe a mix-up of father and son in the post of 2005?

Haijby scandal - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

When it comes to fictional gay royals, there have been several novels with that theme published. The probably most wellknown being "Red, White & Royal Blue" by Casey McQuiston, and it has been made a Prime Video. The book is much better than the film, I can recommend reading it.

 

[Mbruno]

Even if this post is from 2005 a comment.
There have been three Swedish kings with the name of Gustav Adolf, namely Gustav II Adolf (died 1632), Gustav IV Adolf (died 1837), and Gustav VI Adolf (died 1973), so which one of those is the one in the post?

The closest thing in Sweden regarding royals having a gay lover was King Gustav V and the Haijby scandal. Gustav V was the father of Gustav VI Adolf, maybe a mix-up of father and son in the post of 2005?

Haijby scandal - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

When it comes to fictional gay royals, there have been several novels with that theme published. The probably most wellknown being "Red, White & Royal Blue" by Casey McQuiston, and it has been made a Prime Video. The book is much better than the film, I can recommend reading it.

Netflix also made the series "Young Royals" about a fictional gay Prince of Sweden who unexpectedly becomes the Crown Prince after his older brother dies in a car accident. At the end of the series, he actually gives up his succession rights (or at least appears to do so) although it is unclear to me how that could be legally done in Sweden.

 

[Meraude]

Netflix also made the series "Young Royals" about a fictional gay Prince of Sweden who unexpectedly becomes the Crown Prince after his older brother dies in a car accident. At the end of the series, he actually gives up his succession rights (or at least appears to do so) although it is unclear to me how that could be legally done in Sweden.

As well as a monarch can abdicate, the same is true for the others members in the Swedish Order of Succession. Although the word 'abdication' is usually only used about monarchs, the word itself means to disown or renounce, and it can be for any kind of formal office.

 

[meeralakshmi]

The closest thing in Sweden regarding royals having a gay lover was King Gustav V and the Haijby scandal. Gustav V was the father of Gustav VI Adolf, maybe a mix-up of father and son in the post of 2005?

I believe they were indeed referring to King Gustaf V.

When it comes to fictional gay royals, there have been several novels with that theme published. The probably most wellknown being "Red, White & Royal Blue" by Casey McQuiston, and it has been made a Prime Video. The book is much better than the film, I can recommend reading it.

Was it ever discussed what title the president’s son may get if he were to marry the prince? While the actor who plays the prince (Nicholas Galitzine) has the same surname as a Russian princely family he has no relation to them; his grandfather changed his surname to Galitzine for an unknown reason.

 

[JR76]

There's also been a young prince (in his 30s I think) who married his boyfriend a couple of years ago. He is from one of the Germanic houses, I don't remember which one.

Count Anton zu Castell-Rüdenhausen married William Ferromelo in 2023.

 

[meeralakshmi]

Count Anton zu Castell-Rüdenhausen married William Ferromelo in 2023.

I see, while it doesn’t appear that the husband received a title he calls himself William Castell on Instagram.

 

[Lady Chiara]

Count Anton zu Castell-Rüdenhausen married William Ferromelo in 2023.

They are exactly the couple I meant. Thank you!

I believe they were indeed referring to King Gustaf V.

Was it ever discussed what title the president’s son may get if he were to marry the prince? While the actor who plays the prince (Nicholas Galitzine) has the same surname as a Russian princely family he has no relation to them; his grandfather changed his surname to Galitzine for an unknown reason.

About RWRB, there was no discussion in the book or movie about a possible title for Alex, the president's son. SPOILER WARNING It is clear that Henry, the prince, see royal life as a cage. At the end of the book he moves to NY to be with Alex work for charities. It's basically accepted in the fandom (and probably confirmed by the author) that Henry at a certain point in the future abdicates and takes his father's surname.

In general, the book and the movie are more plausible with the royal stuff than the Hallmark movies with a prince (love those too) so if you have a very basic understanding of royals it seems accurate but if you know the subject you see some discrepancies (same with Young Royals). There will be another RWRB movie so maybe they'll adress the title thing

 

[meeralakshmi]

About RWRB, there was no discussion in the book or movie about a possible title for Alex, the president's son. SPOILER WARNING It is clear that Henry, the prince, see royal life as a cage. At the end of the book he moves to NY to be with Alex work for charities. It's basically accepted in the fandom (and probably confirmed by the author) that Henry at a certain point in the future abdicates and takes his father's surname.

I think you mean surrender rights to the throne since he isn't the heir.

 

[Lady Chiara]

I think you mean surrender rights to the throne since he isn't the heir.

Yes, I meant that!

 

[Meraude]

that Henry at a certain point in the future abdicates and takes his father's surname.

I think you mean surrender rights to the throne since he isn't the heir.

Even if abdicate used for monarchs giving up their throne, according to dictionaries the word in for example Merriam-Webster says:
* to renounce a throne, high office, dignity, or function*
so the word can be used by a prince, or anyone who renounces something.

 

[Stefan]

I see, while it doesn’t appear that the husband received a title he calls himself William Castell on Instagram.

There is no Title as they are abolished in Gerrnany. Only a surname to which he has the right as legal spouse

 

[meeralakshmi]

There is no Title as they are abolished in Gerrnany. Only a surname to which he has the right as legal spouse

Royals who lost their power still use their titles and so do their spouses if they’re able to get a title by marriage.

 

[Stefan]

Royals who lost their power still use their titles and so do their spouses if they’re able to get a title by marriage.

Still there are no Titles in Germany anymore
Only Surname. Even Duke of Bavaria etc is no Title even if it used one

 

[meeralakshmi]

Still there are no Titles in Germany anymore
Only Surname. Even Duke of Bavaria etc is no Title even if it used one

I see, however even if the titles don’t hold any weight legally the families still continue to use them (and use them as surnames so that they can be recognized). I have heard that some German royal families are still involved with the government even though their monarchies were abolished.

 

[meeralakshmi]

Ankit Bhuptani and Manvendra Singh Gohil react to the Centre’s response on same-sex marriage - Times of India

The Centre’s affidavit has come as a big disappointment for LGBTQIA activists

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

I love this pic of the gay Indian prince and his husband with rainbow penguins.