If The Duke of Edinburgh outlived The Queen...

[CrownPrinceLorenzo]

And The Prince of Wales is crowned King...

Will his father, The Duke of Edinburgh, still take precedence over him?

Like will people list the royal family like this:

HRH The Duke Edinburgh
HM The King
HM The Queen
HRH The Prince of Wales
etc...

Like that?

 

[BeatrixFan]

I think he'd come just under Charles and Camilla. He wouldn't outrank the King and Queen thats for definate.

 

[caroline mathilda]

After the Queen dies, the Duke of Edinburgh would definitely come after Charles in the protocol list. He would be in a similar position to that of the Queen Mother after GeorgeVI's death.

 

[branchg]

King Charles III
Queen Camilla
The Duke of Edinburgh
The Prince of Wales
The Prince Henry

 

[MOLEY]

I would be very suprised if william is crowned prince of wales, he would be automatically duke of cornwall etc...

 

[branchg]

William doesn't need to be "crowned" Prince of Wales. Once the Sovereign creates him Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester, that's it. The ceremony is more for political purposes and isn't necessary.

 

[Chris922]

I would be very suprised if william is crowned prince of wales, he would be automatically duke of cornwall etc...

Why would he not be created Prince of Wales after his father ascends the throne? I can't imagine Charles not eventually creating his eldest son Prince of Wales.

 

[MOLEY]

Then we would have an uncrowned prince.
The title is not a long standing tradition to bestow on the heir to the throne. I truly belive charles will be the last prince of wales, as in 1969 there were quite a few protests against an english prince having the title, and now with the welsh nationals having an even greater voice and all that has happend since develoution in the uk, with groups within the kingdoms and principalities within the uk now wanting even greater seperation from each other i very much doubt another prince of wales.

 

[Claire]

I would be very suprised if william is crowned prince of wales, he would be automatically duke of cornwall etc...

Don't really follow the only way Prince William will receive a Dukedom of anything will be IF he marries before the Queen dies. That way the Prince of Wales title will still be occupied by his father. When Prince Charles becames King it is very likely that plans for William's crowning will be undertaken immediately. Subsidary titles will probably be granted although I doubt they will mean anything.

I think the way the way the order of Precedence (for male royals) will be as following:
1. King Charles (George VIII)
4. Prince Philip (Duke of Edinburgh)
2. Prince William (Prince of Wales)
3. Prince Harry (Duke of Something, possibly Clarence)
4. Prince Andrew, Duke of York
5. Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex.

I think that Prince Philip will move out of Buckingham Palace as soon as the Queen dies and move in with Prince Edward. That way he won't have to see Charles that often

 

[Iluvbertie]

When Charles becomes King William will automatically become Duke of Cornwall and inherit most of Charles other titles. They are the automatic titles of the eldest son of the monarch. If he marries before the Queen dies he will probably be given another dukedom and therefore end up with two - as happened to George V who was created Duke of York in the reign of Queen Victoria but on her death immediately also became Duke of Cornwall. When he opened the first Australian parliament he was correctly referred to as the Duke of Cornwall and York.

It will be up to Charles to decide when, or even if, he will create William Prince of Wales. Edward VII waited nearly 10 months before creating George V Prince of Wales and the present Queen waited 6 years before creating Charles POW although Charles had been Duke of Cornwall since the early hours of 6th February 1952 when she became Queen.

Whether William will ever be invested as POW again is up to the new King and Parliament and certainly wouldn't take place until after the coronation of his father. I doubt if one would take place because of his age. It is not something that has been done all that often. I can find no reference to such an investiture prior to 1911 meaning that it has only happened twice in the long history of the title (since the middle ages).

As to Philip's precedence that will be up to Charles as well. The position of a male consort outliving a Queen consort hasn't happened to my knowledge except for Philip of Spain - who was a king in his own right and William III likewise.

I hope that Charles would acknowledge Philip's position as the consort of the previous monarch and award him the precedence accordingly - ie the same precedence the Queen Mum had during the reign of her daughter.

 

[Royal Fan]

Are they not close ?? and would Bagsho tPark Have Enough room also this may sound a bit morbid but it was discussed on another board and was wondering where will Philip the Queen William and Harry and The Prince and Princess of Wales be interred?? Just curious.

 

[ysbel]

Don't really follow the only way Prince William will receive a Dukedom of anything will be IF he marries before the Queen dies.

When Charles becomes King, William automatically become Duke of Cornwall so no, he doesn't have to get married to get that title.

But if he is to get a dukedom before that happens, the general practice has been to grant a dukedom when a royal prince gets married.

Although it has been tradition to grant dukedoms to the younger sons of the monarch, somehow I don't think Harry will get a dukedom. Edward assumed the title of Earl of Wessex rather than a royal dukedom so I think the BRF is trying to scale themselves down.

 

[ysbel]

The title is not a long standing tradition to bestow on the heir to the throne.

It depends on how long you consider long-standing. Edward I created his son the first Prince of Wales in the 1200s. So the title has an 800 year history with the heir to the English throne.

There may be resistance by the Welsh to creating a new Prince of Wales. Edward I only gave his son the title to prevent any native Welsh from taking the title and challenging his authority in Wales, but that was 800 years ago and I haven't heard much controversy about the title in Wales nowadays.

 

[MOLEY]

I was chatting to protesters during the royal visit outside the welsh assembly about this very subject last week (and at caernarfon castle just before christmas) and for these groups of people it is very much a subject they were passionate about, i am far from being a welsh nationlist but i can agree on their arguement. maybe it could be a subject for the assembly to discuss in the future, as there are a lot of nationlits working as A.M's

 

[Iluvbertie]

Are they not close ?? and would Bagsho tPark Have Enough room also this may sound a bit morbid but it was discussed on another board and was wondering where will Philip the Queen William and Harry and The Prince and Princess of Wales be interred?? Just curious.

1. Bageshot Hall would be plenty big enough to house the Wessexes and Prince Philip. He may not want to live with any of his children of course or he may prefer one of the others.

2. The Queen and Prince Philip will be buried in St George's Chapel Windsor in the same crypt as George VI and the Queen Mum. When that little chapel was built for George VI it was large enough for 6 coffins. The other two spaces were intended for Charles and his consort so presumably Charles and Camilla will also be buried there. That assumes that Charles outlives his mother.

3. The Frogmore Mausoleum is the usual resting place for other royals and where, at the moment I suspect that William and Harry would end up, if they die in the reign of the present monarch or in Charles' reign.

Of course Charles, William and Harry may chose to be buried elsewhere. e.g. Charles may ask to be buried at Highgrove. That is simply an idea and I have never read anything that suggests that he would do that.

 

[branchg]

Although it has been tradition to grant dukedoms to the younger sons of the monarch, somehow I don't think Harry will get a dukedom. Edward assumed the title of Earl of Wessex rather than a royal dukedom so I think the BRF is trying to scale themselves down.

It was agreed an earldom would be conferred at this time because the intention is for Charles to create him Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Merinoth and Baron Greenwich after the death of The Queen and Prince Philip. The reason for this is both William and Harry will have their own peerages by the time their father becomes King and will not inherit their grandfather's titles.

Harry is likely to be created Duke of Cambridge upon marriage and William will probably be Duke of Clarence if he marries while The Queen is alive.

The real question is whether Harry's children will hold the titular dignity and rank of HRH Prince/Princess of the UK. I suspect they will if The Duke of York continues to adamantly insist his daughters remain HRH and Princesses. Otherwise, to issue new letters patent would not make any sense.

 

[ysbel]

I was chatting to protesters during the royal visit outside the welsh assembly about this very subject last week (and at caernarfon castle just before christmas) and for these groups of people it is very much a subject they were passionate about, i am far from being a welsh nationlist but i can agree on their arguement. maybe it could be a subject for the assembly to discuss in the future, as there are a lot of nationlits working as A.M's

Well I could understand Welsh nationalists wanting to do away with a title that was 'stolen' from Wales but I think Wales would be shooting itself in the foot.

Having a Prince of Wales as heir to the throne gives Wales a lot more visibility on the international stage than it would have otherwise.

 

[MOLEY]

Yes ysbel i agree it does help promote wales in that way, as i i try to explain to people on my travels wales it is not a city in england.

 

[Gutsy]

Sveciae Rex

Wales as a Principality needs a "Prince": the fact it never was a kingdom is the reason it is the Welsh "Assembly" and not a "parliament" and the fact that the Red Dragon does not figure in the UK Arms nor in Royal Standard ( though IMO if the vestigial Crown connection with Northern Ireland every is ever abolished the Red Dragon might well find a home at last in the Heraldry of the UK.)
Immediately upon the accession of his father to the throne "HRH Prince William of Wales " would become "HRH Duke of Cornwall..etc."
The title of PoW is not automatic and need not be conferred upon the Heir Apparent de jure.

 

[Alexandria]

I think that Prince Philip will move out of Buckingham Palace as soon as the Queen dies and move in with Prince Edward. That way he won't have to see Charles that often

Why would Prince Phillip have to move in with Edward and Sophie? Why couldn't he live somewhere on his own as the Queen Mother did in her final years?

And why would Philip have to/want to move away so that he wouldn't have to see Charles that often?

Am I missing on a riff between father and son? Or a favourtism for Edward (which is contrary to what I have read).

 

[Iluvbertie]

The reports and the facts, as I interpret them, don't necessarily agree.

1. Edward is the baby of the family - and therefore often the favourite.

2. Edward quit the marines and upset his father in doing so - or did he? His father may very well have been proud that his son stood up to him and said that the military wasn't for him.

3. Edward is the one who is to get his father's title - even though Charles will inherit it the decision was made the Edward was to have it recreated for him - not something a father would necessarily want for a son with whom he wasn't close! Of course Philip may have agreed to that so that the title could pass on!

4. Edward is the son replacing Philip as head of the Duke of Edinburgh award scheme and on the Commonwealth Games committee. i.e. Edward is taking over his father's positions - again something indicative of a closeness if not favouritism for the baby.

5. Charles has made comments that upset his father about his father's as a father and therefore their is the potential for some tenseness. Whether that constitutes a riff is another matter. Philip is close to Charles' sons and has many things in common with Charles so I don't really think there is a riff but more a feeling that Charles is the third favourite out of three sons, and probably the child with whom Philip would least like to live. "Least like" doesn't equal 'not like' by the way.

 

[Georgia]

I think - and this is just my personal view - that Philip and Charles are just two different people who hold different opionions on the same things. It's probably not a rift rather just what happens in hunderds of other families when sons grow up and have families and responsibilities of their own. Their fathers are no longer the most important or influencial people in their lives.

 

[Empress]

Could we try not to refer to Camilla as Queen until/if such time that it becomes fact.

She still has some ways to go to redeem herself in my eyes, although I suppose that that is not impossible.

And, no I am not saying that Diana was perfect or that Camilla is evil, or the other way around. I just think that the whole situation could have been better handled from the get go.

I hope I do not offend anyone.

 

[Saragli]

No offence. But as you will quickly learn. Past is the Past and you cant change it. You accept what you and you look at the good and you move on. Camilla WILL be Queen, what she is called is something else. But lets not discuss that.

 

[branchg]

Camilla will be Queen unless Parliament agrees to pass an Act allowing her to be Princess Consort instead. The likelihood of that happening is next to zero. She cannot be "something else" without legislation being passed.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The awkward thing to my mind with her title is when would Parliament pass this legislation?

If they pass it before the Queen dies then they are asking her mother-in-law to sign legislation making her son's wife a second class wife - ie not good enough to be queen and therefore raise the question of whether the marriage should ever have taken place in the first place.

If they wait until Charles is king she will automatically become queen. Then they pass legislation taking away a title. They would have to give a reason surely - again - not good enough to be queen - what a great accession present for the new king that would be - 'congratulations on your accession Your Majesty - by the way your wife isn't going to be queen any more and you have to sign the legislation taking it away from her'.

Does anyone really envision either of these situations actually happening? I don't.

She will be Queen.

 

[Toledo]

I'm afraid to admitt that will happen. Camilla will be Queen because Charles won't have it any other way. Even though I was always a big fan of Diana, past is past and we all have to adapt the same way her kids adapted to the changes in the family.

 

[Warren]

Camilla will be Queen because Charles won't have it any other way.

Toledo, let's not over-dramatise. Camilla will be Queen automatically when Charles becomes King. What other way is there? If we are looking for signs, two tiaras speak volumes.

 

[Toledo]

tabloid pressure. My prediction, when Charles becomes King and Camilla Queen the tabloids and yellow press around will have a field day at their expense. Frankly, I have come to the point that I'm starting to like the present Camilla, not the past one and her doings. But she gains on you with time.
Got to go now...

 

[Empress]

I did not mean that she is not growing on me as well, she is. What I meant is that she still has some ways to go before I personally would feel comfortable calling her queen. I understand the politics of it, no question there, but unless she chooses, along with Charles to be called as queen, I think that we should not refer to her as such. never mind that it seems somewhat disrespectful to Queen Elizabeth.

Two tiara do speak volumes. BUt then againthe Queen is in something of a sticky situation. There has already been one marriage that did not work due to the pressures of royal life, and that was compuounded by them both airing their dirty laundry in public. I think that (in my opinion) that she would like to avoid a repeat of the situation and get the Royal Family back on the same sort of footing that it used to be on, ie respectful, full of class, and what a royal family should be. I am sure that as she gets older she also wants to have her family as a whole and not torn apart by someother friction, and therefore is trying to show sympathy, respect and empathy with her sons choice.

My opinion only though.