Has Lady Diana always been appreciated by the British?

[Lady Nimue]

Charity work does good, no doubt about it, but it needs to be stressed that charity work by the (already) wealthy is something of a an easy way to garner the goodwill of the 'rest of us'. And to 'make a living' (it's pretty effortless). Philanthropy is hard work (imagine what it would take to dispense millions to the public) but charity work is of a different stripe.

I'm sorry to be so cynical, but I've done work for charitable organizations, I've worked with 'the talent' out front. I have absolutely no problem with anyone 'making a living' via their charity work (and would argue with anyone who claims there should't be payment) but doing charity work does not immediately translate into a 'good person'. It's so complicated.

Out front charity work is (simply put) good PR for all involved. I am always a bit bemused by all the laudatory comments regarding Diana's 'charity work'. The landmine stuff with Diana is an example of a celebrity polishing their apple. Totally understandable. Diana had few options for bringing in income. Her name and connection to the BRF as a princess had sparkle and cache. She was correctly using it imo, but we should never lose sight of the fact that Diana potentially had other reasons behind keeping her name front-and-center with the public. Given what I have come to understand regarding Diana, her motivations were likely complex and layered.

Saying all the above does not then discount that Diana as a person may not have enjoyed serving in that very public out-front way, and was not exceedingly good at it. However, she was also problematic for some of her 'causes', given that it was more about her and the photo-op than any real connection to the organization she was at that moment serving by her momentary presence. JMO. (I do wince when people go on about her charity work, tho).

 

[Denville]

I don't think that they're so great. I said that they, implying her raising of them, was her finest accomplishment. I think that she did a surprisingly competent job with them considering how self-centered and unhappy she was.

However, Denville, you have provided some food for thought here. For me to point to Diana's parenting and crow about what a fine job she did with the princes is a worn-out old trope that mcharlotte will come across time and time again in her reading.

She was seflf-centred at times, yes but I'd hardly say a lot more than many people. She had different problems to a lot of women, and she was naturally spoiled by the atmosphere that she was in, as a royal.
I didn't say that she didn't do a reasonably good job.. I think she was a good mother and did her best but neither of them has the sort of qualities that their mother and father have. She reared them to be polite and gentlemanly, not to use their positions unfairly ie things like standing in line, and being polite to staff etc - and she showed them what she did in her charity work.
its not her fault that she coudlnt' entirely counteract the spoiling that they were bound to get as princes.. and botht of them certainly had a phase of being spoiled upper class twits, esp Harry.
IMO her legacy is her warmth, her ability to connect with people and her kindness.. Of course she ahd a bad side, most people do.. but I think that her good side is getting hidden from view nowadays by people who want to rubbish her...

 

[Denville]

I had the feeling that something unfortunate would happen to her. There were frightening scenes when she was out and about without police protection. You might have seen pictures or video of when she'd leave venues and be totally closely surrounded by people.
.

I don't think that it was that dramatic, in the UK. SHe walked around London on her own, and she said to the Police who DID try to get her to accept police protection, that she had been doing this for a while and nothing had happened to her. And while I agree that she had some issues, I don't think that the self harming was all that dangerous, or she would have been problably quietly kept "off duty" more than she was and might have had scars...
I don't think she was likely to try to kill herself. I think she dramatized, certainly and maybe made threats but I don't think her depression was bad enough for that.
She did have to leg it from paparazzi, at times, but I think if it had been dangerous, Di was savvy enough to know that she DID need police or bodyguards and would have put up with them, at least some more of the time.
And in any case, since I dotnt think any of us knew what security arrangement M Al Fayed had for his son, I certainly woudl not have thought of her being in any danger in Dodi's compnay.
I would have assumed that his son was well protected and that Diana, when out with Dodi, would have plenty of security around. The tragedy was caused by the Press mainly but also by Dodi's men not being experienced with the press, and Dodi messing them around and coming up with "clever plans" to outwit the press which led to Henri Paul driving Diana.

 

[Osipi]

As far as suicide attempts, I think you're right Denville that she really didn't want to kill herself. She, more or less, was "committing attention" in a way to relate that things were not all peaches and cream in her world. Most of what I've read about behavior problems with Diana, to me, seems to stem from her own lack of self esteem. She was a person not overly comfortable in her own skin. Public life though and acceptance by the masses did wonders for her self esteem and over her public years we watched her grow from a teenager to a woman with charm, grace and a charismatic manner.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing that shows us what could of or should of been different but at the actual time, people do what they deem to be right at that point in time. Nobody could have really predicted that death in a tunnel in Paris and prevented it.

 

[Denville]

I didn't think she'd die, in a car crash. I assume that the Fayeds were very rich and MAF was known to be paranoid about security, so i'd have thoght that when she was with Dodi, he had bodyguards to protect her and trained chauffeurs to drive her.
I don't think she relay made suicide attempts myself.. maybe she made some threats but while she DID have psychological problems I don't think they extended to suicidal tendencies or to serous self harming.
I agree that she wasn't a happy person, and her charity work, her royal role DID give her some special "self esteem boosting" which made her happier. however it didn't sadly solve all her problems. She was a bit like some troubled actresses who had the love of thteir audiences but didn't have much love in their personal lives.

 

[sarahedwards2]

Did she really throw herself down the stairs when pregnant with William, or fall down and tell everyone she did?


Sent from my iPod touch using The Royals Community

 

[Pranter]

We don't know, we won't ever know unless someone present that day and saw it confirmed it, and that is just not going to happen.


LaRae

 

[Denville]

Did she really throw herself down the stairs when pregnant with William, or fall down and tell everyone she did?


Sent from my iPod touch using The Royals Community

She almost certainly trpped and fell. And later, in depression and in an attempt to make Charles look bad, she said that she'd tried kill or injure herself and that Charles had been indifferent. I think that then she did realise that it made her look crazy or very heartless, and she used friends to put out that Mortn had misinterpreted what she said and that she hadn't made any suicide attempts...

 

[Curryong]

I think there's no evidence from any independent witness, (member of staff etc) at least no-one who's willing to talk, that this incident happened at all. It may have happened and Diana later blew it up into something big because she was depressed and angry, it may not. We're never likely to know, IMO.

 

[Lady Nimue]

I have some memory of having read about this being described by someone. Who? Was the Queen Mother present? There was a trip at the top of the stairs but it wasn't as extreme as Diana represented? Though scary given her condition (pregnant with William). I remember that from some where. Anyone? Maybe I am recalling a rumor rather than a fact. So many of the former.

 

[Leopoldine]

As we come up to the anniversary of her death and her legacy is being written about, there seems to be a lot of ...shall I say coincidentally competing?.. news articles coming to the fore about other Royals' distress and unhappiness during that time.

Camilla has been in the papers recently addressing the vilification she went through before and after Diana's death. She's described how she had to hunker down in her house as her children counted the photographers outside, and how awful it all was.

Now, Charles's private letters to Nancy Reagan are just now being made public. In one letter, he describes his marriage to Diana as a Greek Tragedy.

The timing is so suspect.

Even Sarah Ferguson is getting in on the act, bringing up Diana's eating disorder in relation to her own weight problems.

It has been my understanding that Diana's sons want to honor the memory of their mother this year in a variety of different ways. Discussing their grief publicly was a big thing for them, and it really does dovetail nicely with the Heads Together initiative. Having the other family members' memories of 1990's anguish popping up now seems cheesy, like they're competing for the public's sympathy during this anniversary period.

To me, it seems as though a few different royal households are in conflict with each other and muddying each others' messaging.

 

[Osipi]

As far as I remember, in all the various accounts I've read about Diana taking a tumble down the stairs (intentionally or not), it happened while she was pregnant with William. Most definitely a doctor was called and Diana and baby were pronounced as being just fine and none the worse for wear.

The details of who was there at the time and just how she came about to tumble down those stairs have been reported differently and in different sources.

 

[Countessmeout]

I have some memory of having read about this being described by someone. Who? Was the Queen Mother present? There was a trip at the top of the stairs but it wasn't as extreme as Diana represented? Though scary given her condition (pregnant with William). I remember that from some where. Anyone? Maybe I am recalling a rumor rather than a fact. So many of the former.

This came out in 2013. Suggested Charles wasn't even home. That the queen was at the bottom of the stairs when it happrned. Sure makes it sound much less then many lead it on as.

Diana's First Suicide Attempt? - Royal FoiblesRoyal Foibles

 

[Curryong]

As we come up to the anniversary of her death and her legacy is being written about, there seems to be a lot of ...shall I say coincidentally competing?.. news articles coming to the fore about other Royals' distress and unhappiness during that time.

Camilla has been in the papers recently addressing the vilification she went through before and after Diana's death. She's described how she had to hunker down in her house as her children counted the photographers outside, and how awful it all was.

Now, Charles's private letters to Nancy Reagan are just now being made public. In one letter, he describes his marriage to Diana as a Greek Tragedy.

The timing is so suspect.

Even Sarah Ferguson is getting in on the act, bringing up Diana's eating disorder in relation to her own weight problems.

It has been my understanding that Diana's sons want to honor the memory of their mother this year in a variety of different ways. Discussing their grief publicly was a big thing for them, and it really does dovetail nicely with the Heads Together initiative. Having the other family members' memories of 1990's anguish popping up now seems cheesy, like they're competing for the public's sympathy during this anniversary period.

To me, it seems as though a few different royal households are in conflict with each other and muddying each others' messaging.

Yes, it is VERY coincidental, and I agree 100% with your conclusions, Leopoldine.

 

[Denville]

This came out in 2013. Suggested Charles wasn't even home. That the queen was at the bottom of the stairs when it happrned. Sure makes it sound much less then many lead it on as.

Diana's First Suicide Attempt? - Royal FoiblesRoyal Foibles

It came out long before 2013. the fall was reported at the time it happened. Diana said it was a semi suicide attempt, in her tapes to Morton in 1991...

 

[Denville]

I think there's no evidence from any independent witness, (member of staff etc) at least no-one who's willing to talk, that this incident happened at all. It may have happened and Diana later blew it up into something big because she was depressed and angry, it may not. We're never likely to know, IMO.

Of course it happened. it was reported in the press at the time it happened. Clearly she had a fall and bumped herself and as she was pregnant, it was scary and might have had consequences.
According to Diana later, however, she said that she had thrown herself down stairs, because Charles wasn't listening ot her, and that she had been aware that she was pregnant, and clealry that meant she didn't care if she killed herself or injured/ended the pregnancy. Pretty nasty or bizarre behaviour If you believe the Diana version. She also stated initially that the queen was there, but later said it was the QM.
if you go by what Diana said, she was either so "out of it" that she deliberately risked her own life and her babys, because she was so depressed. Or she just callously risked the baby's life to get charles' attention.
However I believe the early version, which was IMO the truth, that she fell a few steps, that the queen was there and that Charles far from being indifferent, called a doctor and stayed iwht her all day.

 

[Pranter]

As far as I know the source for the story was the Morton book (ergo Diana) ...and other books have used that as a source for their own info.

IIRC, the Queen was supposedly witness to the event. Not sure about the Queen Mother.


LaRae

 

[Denville]

it was the queen. Diana said she landed " at the feet of the queen" who was scared.. but later she got Morton to put it that it was the QM who had been there...

 

[Mermaid1962]

Yes, I remember it clearly. I was in college at the time, and I remember it being talked about. Someone made a joke that "maybe Charles pushed her."

Of course it happened. it was reported in the press at the time it happened. Clearly she had a fall and bumped herself and as she was pregnant, it was scary and might have had consequences.

However I believe the early version, which was IMO the truth, that she fell a few steps, that the queen was there and that Charles far from being indifferent, called a doctor and stayed iwht her all day.

 

[Denville]

God what a thing to say!
Anyway I think that it is clear that there was a fall, it was In the news, so some servant problably tattled and they thought it was best to make some kind of announcement that Di had had a fall and that she and the baby were Ok.. as Di was so mega popular.
Di said to Morton that she landed at the feet of the queen..and she later told Morton to change that to the queen mother.
I don't know if the fall happened perhaps when she and Chalres were arguing about something..
It is posislbe they had a tiff, she was on the stairs and tripped being in an emotional state and fell down a few steps. She was shaken up and Charles called a doctor and he stayed iwht her all day.
However years later, Diana glossed it as her making a dramatic "I'll kill myself if you don't stay home with me,," and his sayng "Oh stop being so dramaitic" and she threw herself down the stairs. I'm sure it didn't happen that way - that Charles didn't care about her, or the baby or that she was wiling to hurt or kill herself or her baby, just to score a point with him..
But in 1991 or so, she was clearly very depressed and angry about the end of her marriage and put out this story as a way of making it seem that Charles was a heartless so and so.. who didn't care about her or their baby.

 

[Lady Nimue]

But in 1991 or so, she was clearly very depressed and angry about the end of her marriage and put out this story as a way of making it seem that Charles was a heartless so and so.. who didn't care about her or their baby.

Why do you think that? What evidence is there to think that in 1991 Diana was 'very depressed and angry about the end of her marriage'? Her marriage had ended 6 years (or there-abouts) prior. Why suddenly anger and depression? (I have my own hunches, based on the evidence, as to why Diana did the Morton book, and anger and depression about her marriage ending is not on my list).

 

[Curryong]

The title of this thread is 'Has Lady Diana always been appreciated by the BRITISH?'.

This is a little story from 1991. A father (in England) whose adult son was dying of AIDS wrote to Diana and his plea touched her heart. The young man's dying wish was to meet the Princess of Wales. In an effort to fulfil this his father wrote to Diana with little hope of success. Diana then arranged for the son to attend an AIDS hostel run by the Lighthouse Trust, one of her patronages, which she was scheduled to visit. That gesture made his dying wish come true.

Was Diana appreciated by that man and his family? Absolutely!

 

[Curryong]

Another story. I work at a community centre near my home. Recently work colleagues and I just mentioned in passing that the 20th anniversary of Diana's death was coming up (in August.) Sitting nearby was a retired policeman called Tony who is Welsh.

He listened to us for a while and then stated that he had been assigned to guard Diana on the Wales's first visit to Melbourne, which I too can remember. (I saw her, among huge crowds, on an evening engagement.)

On the first evening, after a full day, Diana heard Tony's distinctive Welsh accent. She went over to have a chat, and asked whereabouts in Wales he was from. He told her and they talked about his hometown which she remembered from her first tour. She asked his name.

The next morning when she and Charles were getting ready to get into their car, she said, with a cheeky glint in her eye 'Good morning Tony!' The police Inspector next to him couldn't believe it. 'How does she know your name?' and Tony joked 'We were at school together!'

That was a very brief encounter with Diana, and yet this man, over thirty years later can recall every detail of their short conversation and how friendly and beautiful she was. He was British, and yes, he appreciated her!

 

[Osipi]

Both are heartwarming stories and thanks for relating them Curryong.

I would imagine that there are thousands and thousands of stories that the British people could relate in remembering Diana. That's where Diana had the most impact I think. One on one with the people that she met over the years.

 

[Denville]

Why do you think that? What evidence is there to think that in 1991 Diana was 'very depressed and angry about the end of her marriage'? Her marriage had ended 6 years (or there-abouts) prior. Why suddenly anger and depression? (I have my own hunches, based on the evidence, as to why Diana did the Morton book, and anger and depression about her marriage ending is not on my list).

yes well this has gone off topic, and I thought that it was very obvious that I had said 1991 or so because that was when she did the Morton book.

 

[Jacknch]

Indeed the discussion has gone way off topic from it's original purpose, which is to discuss how the British public saw Diana before and how they see her now. Let's get back on topic please.

 

[Denville]

Its very hard to say, isn't it? Because the public is hardly a monolith. ALl one can say is that she was very very popular as a royal wife, and only began to lose that MASSIVE popularity a few years before her death.