Harry and Meghan: Tour of Southern Africa - September 23-October 2, 2019

[DuchessMia]

Let me get this straight. Meghan’s first events post-maternity leave will be a tour and people are complaining that she needs to do something in the UK first? She’s working at the behest of the Foreign Office and representative of the Queen and people are still complaining? And she isn’t even taking the full 6 months and people are still griping about her? Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[theroyalfly]

I agree with Muriel that, if Meghan feels she can go out of maternity leave in six months' time to tour South Africa, then she should also resume official royal duties in the UK by the same time. Otherwise she will attract negative criticism and the usual allegations that she is taking a taxpayer funded vacation (even if her presence on the tour is explicitly requested by the FCO).

She's already maligned and treated unfairly by the press. This trip is no different. We can only speculate. But considering Meghan's virtue, she must have been requested to join too and she can't let that go since Africa is close to her heart.

 

[jacqui24]

> It is not about your friends having to go or being able to go back to work at 12 weeks. If Meghan is keen to return to regular royal duties at 12 weeks, I do not believe anybody would stop her. There will be plenty of places in the UK that could do with royal patronage and attention, and I am sure she would do a very competent job.

>However, if she has not returned to full time duties and merely pops up on the tour, the optics certainly will not be great. It will be easy to interpret it as it is ok to be on leave for UK duties, but not for South Africa.

> As regards requests from the FCO, I am sure the FCO will be contend with the Duke carrying out those engagements. I don't believe they will be carrying out engagements of such a sensitive nature that the maternity leave of the duchess needs to be interrupted. That has certainly never happened for either the Queen nor for the previous Princess of Wales.

> Not that we know the specifics of the trip just yet and so this may be a bit premature, but I just can't see the point of dragging a 4-5 month old baby to SA, having Meghan do a few engagements with Harry, wait in SA whilst he does the rest of the tour to return to SA and then come back. Eager as she is, the question to ask is if all the costs and work involved in putting all of this together will be worth it from the point of view of the FCO? Perhaps it is better for the Duke to do the trip on his own.

Did I miss the part where they announced she'll only take a break from maternity to do this? Have the full Fall and Winter schedule been announced? Do women, and especially royal women, always return to full time schedule right away or do they ease into it overall and make adjustments along the way? Even without maternity leave, royals typically have less packed schedule in UK as they are on tour as they are only in the country for a short period of time. It seems that people are jumping to premature conclusions just to criticize her for something.

And since none of us have insight to FCO's thinking, I think we should questioning if it's worth it from FCO's point of view without evidence. This is obviously the final version they all agreed on was the best. I'm sure if they didn't see the point of the Duchess being on tour, they could've just asked her not to go as they are footing the bill for travel and accommodation on this. They clearly see value for the money as they agreed to it. I'm sure they aren't shy if they have concerns.

 

[jacqui24]

I don't believe anybody is suggesting that the baby be left without the mother. I am only questioning why the maternity leave needs to be interrupted at M&A have to be taken to Africa when Harry could well do the tour himself.

Someone upthread said they should leave Archie in UK. Or Meghan shouldn't go if she can't agree to that. So yes, it was suggested.

That can be partly fixed by arranging a relevant parallel program for Meghan in SA while Harry is away (and leaving Archie with the nanny in the mean time), but my personal opinion still is that Archie should be left home in the UK or, if Meghan wouldn't agree to it, that Harry should travel alone to Africa.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Did I miss the part where they announced she'll only take a break from maternity to do this? Have the full Fall and Winter schedule been announced?

This is what I’m confused by. Nobodies said such a thing. We don’t even know long Meghan’s “maternity leave” is going to be, we didn’t even know it had started.

 

[Osipi]

As this is the first overseas tour for Harry and Meghan since the birth of Archie, I believe it sets the precedence for the family that if they're going to be away for an extended period of time, they're going to be traveling as a family. Children included. This isn't something new either. It sends a clear message that as working royals, they also put their families first and include them if they're going to be away for an extended period of time. I like this. It shows they're human and not puppets on a string.

Personally, I feel that those that complain about the "cost" or "taxpayer monies" or "expenses incurred" see the whole thing in terms of monetary cost and are leaving out the importance of the family unit, familial closeness and relationships (especially with a baby so young) and see the world in green dollars that aren't even coming out of their own pockets. Harry and Meghan know what is best for them and their family and this trip is being arranged so that they can go as a family.

I'm looking forward to following this tour however they work it. I'm going to enjoy it for what it is and take it as it comes and leave the details to those that take care of details.

 

[Elenath]

This is what I’m confused by. Nobodies said such a thing. We don’t even know long Meghan’s “maternity leave” is going to be, we didn’t even know it had started.

Ofcourse it started. Doesn’t maternity leave always start right after the baby is born?
People are now criticising her for things that might happen, but haven’t happened yet? Maybe they should wait a bit.

 

[JR76]

Ofcourse it started. Doesn’t maternity leave always start right after the baby is born?
People are now criticising her for things that might happen, but haven’t happened yet? Maybe they should wait a bit.

In many countries maternity leave starts before the actual birth. In the UK it starts at the earliest 11 weeks before the calculated week of birth while in my home country of Sweden it's possible for it to start 60 days before the calculated date of birth.

 

[Mbruno]

Someone upthread said they should leave Archie in UK. Or Meghan shouldn't go if she can't agree to that. So yes, it was suggested.

Yes, I do think that, other than if Meghan is still breastfeeding, leaving Archie in the UK is better for him than taking him on such a long overseas trip to Africa.

The best option of all, however, would still be for Harry to go alone. If Meghan’s presence was indeed explicitly requested by the FCO, I wonder why, especially, when they know she is still on maternity leave and probably will still be four months from now.

 

[jacqui24]

Yes, I do think that, other than if Meghan is still breastfeeding, leaving Archie in the UK is better for him than taking him on such a long overseas trip to Africa.

The best option of all, however, would still be for Harry to go alone. If Meghan’s presence was indeed explicitly requested by the FCO, I wonder why, especially, when they know she is still on maternity leave and probably will still be four months from now.

I'm not sure why it's an issue here. It's not the first time for a baby to go on tour with their parents. It's been normal to do so since the previous generation. I'm not sure what is the difference between The Sussexes traveling with their baby versus others who traveled with their babies.

It doesn't mean Meghan should just stay home now that she has a baby. If she feels she'll be up for it and there is no reason Archie can't go, there is no reason not to go. If there is a reason he can't go, they wouldn't have reached this decision.

Based on what I read in the annual report, it seems that trips carried out are decided on by a committee which include both Private Secretaries to certain royals and government officials. FCO requests royals for tours, and then they will determine who should based on a variety of reasons.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Ofcourse it started. Doesn’t maternity leave always start right after the baby is born?
People are now criticising her for things that might happen, but haven’t happened yet? Maybe they should wait a bit.

In many countries maternity leave starts before the actual birth. In the UK it starts at the earliest 11 weeks before the calculated week of birth while in my home country of Sweden it's possible for it to start 60 days before the calculated date of birth.

Thanks JR76.

What I was saying was that we didn't know when Meghans maternity leave started, normally it starts before the birth in the UK, so there's no reason for us to know when it's ending.

 

[Lilyflo]

I don't think BRF women take 'maternity leave' as per employees. They take some time off & then do occasional morning/evening engagements, gradually increasing their workload as it fits around their family time. There isn't a start & finish date & there are no rules or protocols about this as far as I'm aware.

 

[Somebody]

I don't think BRF women take 'maternity leave' as per employees. They take some time off & then do occasional morning/evening engagements, gradually increasing their workload as it fits around their family time. There isn't a start & finish date & there are no rules or protocols about this as far as I'm aware.

Exactly. I expect Meghan to slowly start picking up engagement after summer. She already did her first one earlier this month.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

Great to hear this tour has been confirmed. I wonder if Archie will join in with any of the activities - obviously, if they're baby appropriate.

 

[Pranter]

There is no pleasing some ppl. Complaining because she is going to represent the country on a tour?

Who says she has to take 6 months maternity leave? My bet is she will take 3 months and we will see her back to work in August. It's known she was still working (meetings etc) after she stopped going to public events late in her pregnancy. Wouldn't surprise me to hear she's doing something similar later this month.

Not sure what the deal is about them taking Archie..this is hardly something new within the BRF and even other Royal houses.

Is there anything she does that finds favor with the naysayers?



LaRae

 

[theroyalfly]

There is no pleasing some ppl. Complaining because she is going to represent the country on a tour?

Who says she has to take 6 months maternity leave? My bet is she will take 3 months and we will see her back to work in August. It's known she was still working (meetings etc) after she stopped going to public events late in her pregnancy. Wouldn't surprise me to hear she's doing something similar later this month.

Not sure what the deal is about them taking Archie..this is hardly something new within the BRF and even other Royal houses.

Is there anything she does that finds favor with the naysayers?



LaRae

Well, you were on point. It's true everything that H&M is displeasure to everyone. It's sick. If Meghan feels she is okay to work before that 6 months thingy, just deal with it.

As with, Master Archie, let's have confidence in the couple.

 

[JessRulz]

As we are going around in circles and have past the point of substance, this thread will be closed for the time being to avoid a dozen plus pages of repetition well before the tour even begins.

 

[Madame Verseau]

New from Sussexroyal

https://twitter.com/x/status/1168072644177977344

 

[JessRulz]

Official info released today by BP:

-- Visit will take place from September 23 to October 2
-- Begins in Cape Town, South Africa and finishes in Johannesburg, South Africa
-- Harry will visit Angola (September 26-28), Malawi (September 30-October 1) and Botswana (September 26) alone
-- Meghan will remain in South Africa, doing some engagements while Harry travels to the other countries
-- Archie will remain in South Africa with Meghan
-- Departure from Johannesburg on October 2
-- Both arrival and departure to South Africa will be private, no regular tour arrival photo op

https://twitter.com/x/status/1169943872056807424

https://twitter.com/x/status/1169946100813443072

 

[Fijiro]

Their Tour of Southern Africa dates and itinerary have been announced! That's great.
Archie is four-months old today. I know his parents and doctors have taken care of immunization before travelling, but I still say he's too young to travel outside of the continent.
.

 

[ACO]

Sounds like a great itinerary. Balanced.

 

[tausi]

South Africa is going through a huge turmoil right now and foreigners are not very welcome. Many comments in local newspaper don't want this visit to happen as they prefer any security resources to be dedicated to the ongoing country crisis. I will be interested to see how everything will play out.

 

[Ista]

South Africa is going through a huge turmoil right now and foreigners are not very welcomed. Many comments in local newspaper don't want this visit to happen as they prefer any security resources to be dedicated to the ongoing country crisis. It will be interested to see how it plays out.

Could that be why the arrival and departure are private? Unless they are arriving in the middle of the night, that does seem a little odd to me. Usually the arrival photos are one of the fun things to look forward to in these royal tours--the departure photos less so.

 

[tausi]

Ista -

That's a good point. It might be either for security reasons or also to avoid celebrations associated with arrivals (as we have seen for all royals country tours in the past). it is probably better not to have too much fun fare in times where the country is going through such a difficult time.

 

[Pranter]

I know someone in SA ..they follow the Royals and have not seen anything negative or really much coverage about them coming at all. She said the 'turmoil' is not across the whole region, mostly located to one general area. She should know, they were farmers and have lost several friends during this continued situation there.

I'm going to guess the Sussexes are not going to be in that area.





LaRae

 

[tausi]

I have many family members who live in South Africa. The situation is very serious and its not to be underestimated as "focused on a particular region". Every South African and many other Africans (myself included though living in USA almost all my life) are in somber mood.
The issue is serious enough that South Africa is closing its embassy in Nigeria as they are scared in retaliation.

Anyway, my prayers to the people of South Africa. I hope everyone stays safe and long term solution is found for the people of South Africa.

 

[Curryong]

I'm sure that the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office have been keeping a close eye on the situation in South Africa. If the atmosphere there was considered too tumultuous then this tour would not be going ahead.

I'm looking forward to it, and seeing all the different engagements the Sussexes will be participating in, together and separately. Might even see something of baby Archie as well!

 

[Heavs]

That sounds like an interesting tour, I'd almost forgotten they were going on it with all the inanity of the silly season. I have a friend who does a lot of work in Angola, I wonder if she knows anywhere Harry's visiting. Be interesting to see Meghan do solo engagements in SA as well.

I suspect even if the arrivals/departures are private for security reasons (or other official reasons) they'll be blamed on Harry and Meghan, even though they've shown no problems with them on any other tour or engagement. I hope we do get some updated pictures of Archie as well though.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...Harry-Meghan-Markles-royal-tour-revealed.html
further details on the tour, I guess they will take every precaution on this trip. The pictures it will generate are super important for the image of the monarchy.

 

[Mbruno]

I have many family members who live in South Africa. The situation is very serious and its not to be underestimated as "focused on a particular region". Every South African and many other Africans (myself included though living in USA almost all my life) are in somber mood.
The issue is serious enough that South Africa is closing its embassy in Nigeria as they are scared in retaliation.

Anyway, my prayers to the people of South Africa. I hope everyone stays safe and long term solution is found for the people of South Africa.

The conflict is mostly between native South Africans and other (black) African immigrants from neighboring countries. European visitors should be OK. Furthermore, I don't see any major risk for Meghan and Archie as long as they stay in Cape Town. The main risk actually is taking a 5-month baby in a long-distance trip across the world, but that has nothing to do with South Africa specifically.



I am sure there are South African members on TRF who can comment further.