Greenland and the Danish Monarchy


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(..)

Greenland is not a member of EU, Greenland does have a special affiliation status with EU, granting them certain privileges in contrast to third countries.
The Greenlanders also have a special version of the Danish passport enabling them to travel freely within EU. That may not be the case should they opt for total independence.

As it is right now Greenland has autonomy, the extent of which is laid out by the Danish Parliament. In other words Greenland has autonomy to the extend that the Danish Parliament believe that's what a small town can handle. And in regards to security or foreign policy DK is in control, lest the Greenlanders suddenly invite the Chinese to come and take over the country. That is of course a nod to the strategic position Greenland has and to placate USA, who would indeed, no matter what administration is in place, take over control of Greenland. That's simply the harsh security political realities.

Two solutions are proposed right now. Three actually if you count total independence, but that's gonna be difficult to sell to the Greenlanders with Trump huffing and puffing right outside their door.
The first is a kind of commonwealth with DK, with a seat in UN, probably keeping King Frederik as head of state. That will mean a partnership with Denmark and likely the Faeroe Islands as well, on supposedly equal footing. It would of course be a partnership totally dominated by DK and with DK de facto still in control of upholding sovereignty, because Greenland would simply not have the resources to do it themselves. It would undoubtedly also mean a continuation of Greenlanders getting access to higher education and advanced medical treatment in Denmark. It's doubtful more than a handful of Danes would ever study or seek medical treatment in Greenland. It would also mean that Danes and Greenlanders can freely travel and work within the commonwealth.
On the other hand Greenland would be able to pursue their own foreign and economic policy and also freely make agreements with other countries outside this commonwealth. The downside is that Greenland would likely lose their financial support from Denmark. While DK would in reality still pay for a lot functions that are needed to run a country. However, should Greenland begin to exploit its natural resources, Greenland may pay for these services by giving DK a cut of the income.

The other solution is that Greenland becomes a kind of protectorate of Denmark - or another country for that matter. A so-called affiliation agreement. That would mean that Greenland would be sponsored by DK. At least until they eventually are able to fend for themselves, if that ever happens. - But here it's the Greenlanders who decide what kind of help they need, not the Danish Parliament. Outside that help they decide themselves what they want to do with their country and regards to attracting investments, foreign policy (to some extent, mind you). They may likely keep King Frederik as head of state.
That's pretty much how the situation is in a lot of Oceania. They would also be member of UN.

It's interesting that Trump and the MAGA segment seemingly completely ignore the fact that Greenland could get investments from EU in regards to extracting these minerals and what not is up there. USA is not the only player on the field.

Right now a whole lot if people in both DK and Greenland are saying something and many of them really ought to shut up! They are not making things better.
A majority of the Danes wish to keep Greenland in the realm, mainly for historical and sentimental reasons, but also very much to protect the Greenlanders from doing something stupid. They may get their total independence alright, but it's no fun if they lose it the day after to USA.
However, that is on the condition that the Greenlandic politicians adopt a more humble attitude towards DK and the Danes. It's counter productive if the Greenlanders call us colonialist and blame us everything, including the weather, while DK is basically paying for their country, sovereignty and keeping their pristine nature. If that doesn't change the public mood in DK will quickly shift to: Okay, since we are so bad, you are now on your own. Say hi to Trump.

Having an affiliation agreement with EU and being a part of the realm of an EU country, EU is also up in arms to USA threatening both sanctions and even military might. Because that is seen as blatant imperialism and an interference in a country that is within the EU sphere.
It doesn't exactly help that Musk is trying to influence the democracies within in EU, with Twitter/X being on the verge of being banned by EU as a subversive platform.

I do not believe Trump will invade Greenland. He might if he thought he could, that's open to speculation. Like I have stated before, for that to happen USA will first have to become a totalitarian regime, with the Congress and Supreme Court out of power.
Panama however should prepare for the worst IMO.
And on that note. Some in Norway are worried about the island group of Svalbard. That it might be occupied by USA. The Russians also have a tolerated presence there, so that could be interesting!
It just goes to illustrate how much Trump has stirred the pot. Just a few months ago the idea that USA might possibly even think of occupying Svalbard would have been dismissed as totally absurd.
 
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Muhler said:
(..)

Greenland is not a member of EU, Greenland does have a special affiliation status with EU, granting them certain privileges in contrast to third countries.
The Greenlanders also have a special version of the Danish passport enabling them to travel freely within EU. That may not be the case should they opt for total independence.

As it is right now Greenland has autonomy, the extent of which is laid out by the Danish Parliament. In other words Greenland has autonomy to the extend that the Danish Parliament believe that's what a small town can handle. And in regards to security or foreign policy DK is in control, lest the Greenlanders suddenly invite the Chinese to come and take over the country. That is of course a nod to the strategic position Greenland has and to placate USA, who would indeed, no matter what administration is in place, take over control of Greenland. That's simply the harsh security political realities.

Two solutions are proposed right now. Three actually if you count total independence, but that's gonna be difficult to sell to the Greenlanders with Trump huffing and puffing right outside their door.
The first is a kind of commonwealth with DK, with a seat in UN, probably keeping King Frederik as head of state. That will mean a partnership with Denmark and likely the Faeroe Islands as well, on supposedly equal footing. It would of course be a partnership totally dominated by DK and with DK de facto still in control of upholding sovereignty, because Greenland would simply not have the resources to do it themselves. It would undoubtedly also mean a continuation of Greenlanders getting access to higher education and advanced medical treatment in Denmark. It's doubtful more than a handful of Danes would ever study or seek medical treatment in Greenland. It would also mean that Danes and Greenlanders can freely travel and work within the commonwealth.
On the other hand Greenland would be able to pursue their own foreign and economic policy and also freely make agreements with other countries outside this commonwealth. The downside is that Greenland would likely lose their financial support from Denmark. While DK would in reality still pay for a lot functions that are needed to run a country. However, should Greenland begin to exploit its natural resources, Greenland may pay for these services by giving DK a cut of the income.

The other solution is that Greenland becomes a kind of protectorate of Denmark - or another country for that matter. A so-called affiliation agreement. That would mean that Greenland would be sponsored by DK. At least until they eventually are able to fend for themselves, if that ever happens. - But here it's the Greenlanders who decide what kind of help they need, not the Danish Parliament. Outside that help they decide themselves what they want to do with their country and regards to attracting investments, foreign policy (to some extent, mind you). They may likely keep King Frederik as head of state.
That's pretty much how the situation is in a lot of Oceania. They would also be member of UN.

It's interesting that Trump and the MAGA segment seemingly completely ignore the fact that Greenland could get investments from EU in regards to extracting these minerals and what not is up there. USA is not the only player on the field.

Right now a whole lot if people in both DK and Greenland are saying something and many of them really ought to shut up! They are not making things better.
A majority of the Danes wish to keep Greenland in the realm, mainly for historical and sentimental reasons, but also very much to protect the Greenlanders from doing something stupid. They may get their total independence alright, but it's no fun if they lose it the day after to USA.
However, that is on the condition that the Greenlandic politicians adopt a more humble attitude towards DK and the Danes. It's counter productive if the Greenlanders call us colonialist and blame us everything, including the weather, while DK is basically paying for their country, sovereignty and keeping their pristine nature. If that doesn't change the public mood in DK will quickly shift to: Okay, since we are so bad, you are now on your own. Say hi to Trump.

Having an affiliation agreement with EU and being a part of the realm of an EU country, EU is also up in arms to USA threatening both sanctions and even military might. Because that is seen as blatant imperialism and an interference in a country that is within the EU sphere.
It doesn't exactly help that Musk is trying to influence the democracies within in EU, with Twitter/X being on the verge of being banned by EU as a subversive platform.

I do not believe Trump will invade Greenland. He might if he thought he could, that's open to speculation. Like I have stated before, for that to happen USA will first have to become a totalitarian regime, with the Congress and Supreme Court out of power.
Panama however should prepare for the worst IMO.
And on that note. Some in Norway are worried about the island group of Svalbard. That it might be occupied by USA. The Russians also have a tolerated presence there, so that could be interesting!
It just goes to illustrate how much Trump has stirred the pot. Just a few months ago the idea that USA might possibly even think of occupying Svalbard would have been dismissed as totally absurd.
Click to expand...
Danish Defense Minister Troels Lund Poulsen's comments the other day -- "We have neglected for many years to make the necessary investments in ships and in aircraft that will help monitor our kingdom, and that is what we are now trying to do something about" -- suggest that this flap could have a positive outcome, if Denmark (and the other NATO allies) do step up activity in Greenland, especially in terms of monitoring airspace.

If that happens, I suspect U.S. discussion about Greenland will die down. I think Trump's comments all along have been word grenades to make that happen. Not a very good way to handle things diplomatically, but he may get what he wants.

Same with Panama. I would imagine Trump's goal is the get Panama to drop the Chinese companies who control the ports on either end of the canal and to get Panama to end its cooperation with China's Belt and Road Initiative. (Don't forget, Panama dropped its recognition of Taiwan when Trump took office in 2017.)
 
JR76 said:
It's a joke.
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Thanks. I could not really tell if it was satire or not. With the current state of everything it is hard to tell sometimes.

Good Luck to them then.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1877819002736828627

If this is the thinking of Greenlanders, I am sorry to say that they are incredibly naive and deluding themselves.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1877853743540048300

And if Greenlanders think they can go up against these MAGA republicans with their amplifying right wing media - well - see my comment above. This will not die down - In fact, it will only increase after Jan. 20th.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1877771593793110187

In other words, we want to take it over and then pillage and plunder everything they have after we overwhelm them with a literal invasion of equipment, workers, MAGA, etc. They will be able to kiss any say in their own governance goodbye - along with the free healthcare, education, etc they enjoy from DK.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1877729589016821952

 
Lady Daly said:
It would be interesting to know what the Danish PM and Greenland's PM are saying to each other.
Click to expand...
I think this is a summary of their talk to the press


Interesting news about the picture showing Greenlanders with MEGA caps. This is an excerpt from "Welt"
.
"There are now justified doubts as to whether these supporters actually acted out of conviction - or were merely bought extras. According to research by Danish media, the alleged supporters were homeless and destitute people who had previously been approached by Trump's entourage at a supermarket outside the hotel.

“A man came and invited us to go up and have something to eat,” one of the homeless people told the Danish media. “It was good.” As proof, he showed cell phone videos documenting the meeting.
The hotel manager also confirmed: “They invited people from the street and asked if they wanted to eat with them and say hello,” he told reporters. Among other things, the hotel's restaurant offers a T-bone steak for 61 euros and a coffee for 25 euros".
 
hereditarytitles said:
Interesting news about the picture showing Greenlanders with MEGA caps. This is an excerpt from "Welt"
.
"There are now justified doubts as to whether these supporters actually acted out of conviction - or were merely bought extras. According to research by Danish media, the alleged supporters were homeless and destitute people who had previously been approached by Trump's entourage at a supermarket outside the hotel.

“A man came and invited us to go up and have something to eat,” one of the homeless people told the Danish media. “It was good.” As proof, he showed cell phone videos documenting the meeting.
The hotel manager also confirmed: “They invited people from the street and asked if they wanted to eat with them and say hello,” he told reporters. Among other things, the hotel's restaurant offers a T-bone steak for 61 euros and a coffee for 25 euros".
Click to expand...
That is actually true. We have it directly from the person who organized the reception of Trump junior. Jørgen Boassen.
The article is our there somewhere in several of the main papers. He is Danish-Greenlandic who is a great admirer of Trump and such he was approached and asked to gather less than 10 Greenlanders (that was for management and because Secret Service wouldn't have more) to receive him and "welcome" him.
They were issued MAGA hats and invited for dinner.
They were located outside a hotel, where they were known to gather and drink (alcoholism is a major problem in Greenland, and also for Greenlanders coming to DK. Combined with a lower natural tolerance against alcohol.), the locals of course know them very well. Nuuk after all only has a population of 16.000.
At least one of them was interviewed afterwards and as few if any of them understand Danish it's doubtful they understand English.
The prices are insane of course, but it's probably the best hotel in Greenland and products that are not local, like beef and pork, are more expensive for logistic reasons. But many Greenlanders do have money to spend, so the prices remain high.

www.bt.dk

Jørgen fortryder én ting ved at stå for Trump-besøget på Grønland

»Jeg gjorde det helt gratis. Jeg burde have fået flere millioner kroner for det med alt det arbejde, jeg har haft bagefter.«
www.bt.dk www.bt.dk
www.bt.dk

Jørgen tog imod Trump Jr. på Grønland: 'Flere hjemløse fik mad for at være 'Trump-støtter'

'De bliver bestukket, og det er dybt usmageligt.'
www.bt.dk www.bt.dk
 
Muhler said:
That is actually true. We have it directly from the person who organized the reception of Trump junior. Jørgen Boassen.
The article is our there somewhere in several of the main papers. He is Danish-Greenlandic who is a great admirer of Trump and such he was approached and asked to gather less than 10 Greenlanders (that was for management and because Secret Service wouldn't have more) to receive him and "welcome" him.
They were issued MAGA hats and invited for dinner.
They were located outside a hotel, where they were known to gather and drink (alcoholism is a major problem in Greenland, and also for Greenlanders coming to DK. Combined with a lower natural tolerance against alcohol.), the locals of course know them very well. Nuuk after all only has a population of 16.000.
At least one of them was interviewed afterwards and as few if any of them understand Danish it's doubtful they understand English.
The prices are insane of course, but it's probably the best hotel in Greenland and products that are not local, like beef and pork, are more expensive for logistic reasons. But many Greenlanders do have money to spend, so the prices remain high.

www.bt.dk

Jørgen fortryder én ting ved at stå for Trump-besøget på Grønland

»Jeg gjorde det helt gratis. Jeg burde have fået flere millioner kroner for det med alt det arbejde, jeg har haft bagefter.«
www.bt.dk www.bt.dk
www.bt.dk

Jørgen tog imod Trump Jr. på Grønland: 'Flere hjemløse fik mad for at være 'Trump-støtter'

'De bliver bestukket, og det er dybt usmageligt.'
www.bt.dk www.bt.dk
Click to expand...
Yes, this is making the news here on the independent media...you certainly will not see this on Fox. They are absolutely shameful. Just a sneak peek at how they would treat Greenlanders.

Also....any truth to this? Or is Axios making stuff up.
 
Izzie said:
Yes, this is making the news here on the independent media...you certainly will not see this on Fox. They are absolutely shameful. Just a sneak peek at how they would treat Greenlanders.

Also....any truth to this? Or is Axios making stuff up.
Click to expand...
It's absolutely correct.
There have been Danish attempts to contact the Trump people. As there normally would in regards to an upcoming US administration. The difference here being that Trump was roaring out his intentions without these discreet consultations.
DK has in fact been planning to bolster its defense in the Arctic since the invasion of Ukraine. But Arctic frigates aren't build overnight and airbases with crews aren't established just like that.
DK has basically countered all Trump arguments except for the two most obvious: Trump want Greenland to cement his own legacy and some US businesses want the resources of Greenland. Of course these two arguments will be almost impossible to sell outside USA, with the exception of Russia. Even China may be a problem, because they want Taiwan, because it historically was a part of China.
It will also be very difficult to sell to the Americans. Apart from the MAGA segment, the rest of the Americans may ask themselves whether an outright annexation of Greenland would be worth the costs in so many ways.

But it seems to me that the MAGA camp, and that is especially evident with Musk, are high on power-euphoria. They seem to believe that everything they want is possible.
 
suztav said:
Ted Cruz is another idiot.

Once again, on behalf of all sane Americans, my apologies to the people of Denmark and Greenland.
Click to expand...
Ted Cruz was a Canadian citizen by birth (he was born in Calgary to an American mother and a Cuban father), but he later renounced his Canadian citizenship. It would be weird if he supported the annexation of Canada by the USA.

His position on Greenland, on the other hand, doesn't surprise me at all.
 
It's worth pointing out that apart from the initial coverage at the beginning of the week, Greenland has not been a big story in major U.S. media outlets. (Unlike in this group.) Here are the most recent stories from key outlets (some behind paywalls):

CNN: Jan. 10 "Greenland's leader say he's ready to talk to Trump"
The Hill: Jan. 11 "Greenland PM 'ready' to talk with Trump"
Wall Street Journal: Jan. 11 "Trump's Talk of Buying Greenland Energizes Island's Independence Movement"
New York Times: Jan. 8 "Why Does Trump Want Greenland?"
Washington Post: Jan. 9 "Trump hosts Republican governors in Florida and talks anew about Greenland and drones"
 
Muhler said:
It's absolutely correct.
There have been Danish attempts to contact the Trump people. As there normally would in regards to an upcoming US administration. The difference here being that Trump was roaring out his intentions without these discreet consultations.
DK has in fact been planning to bolster its defense in the Arctic since the invasion of Ukraine. But Arctic frigates aren't build overnight and airbases with crews aren't established just like that.
DK has basically countered all Trump arguments except for the two most obvious: Trump want Greenland to cement his own legacy and some US businesses want the resources of Greenland. Of course these two arguments will be almost impossible to sell outside USA, with the exception of Russia. Even China may be a problem, because they want Taiwan, because it historically was a part of China.
It will also be very difficult to sell to the Americans. Apart from the MAGA segment, the rest of the Americans may ask themselves whether an outright annexation of Greenland would be worth the costs in so many ways.

But it seems to me that the MAGA camp, and that is especially evident with Musk, are high on power-euphoria. They seem to believe that everything they want is possible.
Click to expand...
Musk (..) He would obviously greatly benefit from the earth minerals he needs for his little projects. He's dangerous.
 
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Moonmaiden23 said:
On behalf of myself and my fellow Americans who did not vote for the incoming Administration, I apologize from the bottom of my heart to my Danish and Greenland friends here at TRF.

Sadly, this is only the beginning.😕
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Apology not accepted, because you are not to blame.

I won't even blame those who for all sorts or reasons voted Republican. I will however blame those who agree with Trump in this matter, as well as agreeing with his thoughts on Canada, Mexico and Panama.
Voting and putting someone in office does not mean we cannot speak up against and vehemently disagree with that person afterwards. In fact I dare say it's our democratic duty.
 
Mbruno said:
Ted Cruz was a Canadian citizen by birth (he was born in Calgary to an American mother and a Cuban father), but he later renounced his Canadian citizenship. It would be weird if he supported the annexation of Canada by the USA.

His position on Greenland, on the other hand, doesn't surprise me at all.
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Ted Cruz is still considered a natural born citizen of the United States due to his mother's citizenship. This is why he was able to run for president. His Canadian citizenship was an accident of birth and I doubt he has any connection to Canada.
 
Noble Consort Ming said:
Ted Cruz is still considered a natural born citizen of the United States due to his mother's citizenship. This is why he was able to run for president. His Canadian citizenship was an accident of birth and I doubt he has any connection to Canada.
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Ted Cruz renounced his Canadian citizenship in 2013.

Also this: “The United States acquiring Greenland is a very, very good idea,” Cruz said
“This is a serious possibility,” the Republican senator said on his podcast published Wednesday.
On his podcast, Cruz supported the national security argument for acquiring Greenland. "Its location would expand U.S. control of the Arctic Circle, an area that could be a critical trading route as global temperatures rise and a potential conflict zone with Russia or China," Cruz said. "Greenland also has abundant natural reserves of critical minerals necessary for clean energy technology and electronics."
www.texastribune.org

Ted Cruz defends Trump’s pitch to acquire Greenland

Sen. Ted Cruz, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, stressed Greenland’s strategic location in the Arctic and its natural wealth of critical minerals.
www.texastribune.org www.texastribune.org
 
Muhler said:
Apology not accepted, because you are not to blame.

I won't even blame those who for all sorts or reasons voted Republican. I will however blame those who agree with Trump in this matter, as well as agreeing with his thoughts on Canada, Mexico and Panama.
Voting and putting someone in office does not mean we cannot speak up against and vehemently disagree with that person afterwards. In fact I dare say it's our democratic duty.
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You are a bigger person that I am, Muhler. I DO blame my fellow Americans who voted Republican. They had their heads in the sand.
 
www.thedailybeast.com

Greenland Cracks Door Open to Trump’s Imperialist Dreams

Greenland Prime Minister Múte Egede said he would take a meeting with Trump.
www.thedailybeast.com www.thedailybeast.com

They're going to get burned by playing into Trump and MAGA hands. This topic has been all over the Sunday shows. Our unfortunate VP to be today basically talked smack about DK and once again did not rule out military action by saying they would not have to invade aa there's already US military there. This is not dying down. It is getting amplified with right wing media and Musk all over it too.

A news report from today from France 24 in English. Greenland cannot relent to Trump or his ilk in any way. They will get bulldozed before they know it. They cannot give these people anything where they can weave a narrative to barge in. This is not going away. More and more of the MAGA pundits, politicians and complicit media are pushing this and today basically said little Denmark is not equipped to protect Greenland and the US should just take over. That DK has done a horrible job and treat the people on Greendland badly.
 
Izzie said:
www.thedailybeast.com

Greenland Cracks Door Open to Trump’s Imperialist Dreams

Greenland Prime Minister Múte Egede said he would take a meeting with Trump.
www.thedailybeast.com www.thedailybeast.com
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"Greenland Prime Minister Múte Egede said that he’s “ready to talk” with President-elect Donald Trump following Trump’s repeated calls to acquire the island."

"When asked if he was in touch with Trump at the Friday press conference in Copenhagen, Egede said he was not, but added that “we are ready to talk,” per The Hill. Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen was also in attendance and said that she had asked for a meeting with Trump as well."

Why would Denmark and especially Greenland want to talk to Trump? They should stay clear of the man!
 
The New York Times actually published an article yesterday about how much it would cost to buy Greenland (Dealbook, 11.1.25) that is definitely worth a read, if only for the entertainment value (The former Danish Virgin Islands are included in the price..!) The Deal of the Century however is causing lots of distraction from the real issues that will face incoming president Donald Trump once he re-enters the Oval Office. He will not have time for these real estate deals and Elon Musk is too busy trying to influence the Canadian election! Canadians do not want to become part of the United States and I am sure Greenlanders know how the Americans have (mis)treated their own Natives.
 
Izzie said:
A news report from today from France 24 in English. Greenland cannot relent to Trump or his ilk in any way. They will get bulldozed before they know it. They cannot give these people anything where they can weave a narrative to barge in. This is not going away. More and more of the MAGA pundits, politicians and complicit media are pushing this and today basically said little Denmark is not equipped to protect Greenland and the US should just take over. That DK has done a horrible job and treat the people on Greendland badly.
Click to expand...
Given that Denmark and therefore Greenland is part of the NATO, if any country decides to invade Greenland, all NATO allies have to come to their defense. You just would assume it would not be one of the NATO allies who is the threat...
 
Lady Daly said:
"Greenland Prime Minister Múte Egede said that he’s “ready to talk” with President-elect Donald Trump following Trump’s repeated calls to acquire the island."

"When asked if he was in touch with Trump at the Friday press conference in Copenhagen, Egede said he was not, but added that “we are ready to talk,” per The Hill. Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen was also in attendance and said that she had asked for a meeting with Trump as well."

Why would Denmark and especially Greenland want to talk to Trump? They should stay clear of the man!
Click to expand...
That's simple. The game for sympathy is on. And it is still in everyone's interest that this is toned down. In that light DK commentators see Vance's statement as a way of backing down, from the threat of military use. - And it is expected that it won't be the last time Vance will have to do that. - Keep in mind that once Trump is in power, he may not be that useful anymore for those behind him. His administration and the people who have been selected as his government will be able to work on whatever plans are laid out. USA is IMO on the threshold of becoming a "feudalistic society" with billionaires as the nobles. Even the MAGA segment may not be that useful anymore. They already voted him in...
Trump has declared that he will sign more than 100 presidential decrees on his first day. I suggest everybody look at them. The ones with the soft-walled camps along the Mexican border are particularly interesting IMO.

Anyway, our PM, Mette Frederiksen, may be many things but weak or afraid of confrontation, that she is not.
As is usual when there is a national crisis the PM called the other parties in the Parliament in to a conference. Partly to inform about the governments intention but also to discuss and get full political backing to the Danish stance.
Right now it is in DKs interest to play this down and let USA and especially of course Trump look like a bully picking on one of the small children in the school yard. It's angling for global sympathy. And unless I'm very much mistaken, apart from the MAGA segment in USA very few worldwide are impressed with Trump these days.
At the same time DK is sending signals to USA, especially moderate Republicans, that DK is still a willing US ally and is of course ready to discuss the security-political concerns USA have in the Arctic as well as making it clear that the Greenlanders are perfectly willing to discuss US investments in Greenland - on their terms.

Anyway, had trump and co done their homework they would have noticed that DK at present is a member of the UN Security Council. I'm not sure the UN members states will be particularly impressed with USA trying to extort a a member of the Security Council, let alone invading said member. It would undermine UN quite a lot.
On top of that DK will in a few months be chairman of EU, which means the country in charge will lay out the overall policy for EU. In this case major investments in the EU infrastructure, Because EU has the money, but not the economic permissions to do that on a national scale, if it conflicts with certain economic boundaries. DK is planned to head the creation of a common EU investment plan, that means that EU will take major loans, rather than individual countries. This is important! Because Germany in particular very much wants this.
So a Trump who want's put tariffs on pretty much everybody, will in six months be facing the same PM, he is right now seriously p*ssing off in regards to Greenland. Who has the backing of an EU that is also annoyed right now with Trump, and who are very seriously annoyed with Trump's pet-troublemaker, Musk!
Not to mention that EU as a whole will be less than impressed with a Trump trying to extort the EU country that holds the chairmanship. That undermines EU.
Canada has already been eyeing EU in regards to increased co-operation and trade, minimizing their dependence on USA. Mexico is also being cultivated by EU, and as they also feel threatened by a "Trumpist USA", while at the same very much being a growing industrial economy of the America, they too will be happy to look for alternatives ASAP.

On top of that DK is among the Nine Eyes members. That is a select number of countries that gather, (DK has a large SIGINT station in the Baltic Sea) and exchange intelligence, USA and UK being other members.
DK is also the largest manufacturer of components to the F-35 fighter, outside USA. Especially in regards to the sensor systems. Just as we were in regards to the F-16. DK and the rest of Europe produce a lot of components in advanced US weapons, way more than most Americans even imagine.
DK supply the majority of the insulin that is used in USA.
Mærsk runs several major US harbors.
DK alone can actually bite back. And with friends and allies as well as general global sympathy behind us, the bite can be harder than Trump and MAGAs may imagine. DK is a small country, we have spend centuries building alliances, we have a lot of experience in the diplomatic under-dog game. We had to.
I know, for some this may look like bragging or arrogance. Well, let's hope it doesn't come to a test then.

Elon Musk roams Europe totally not understanding the political scene. He is supporting far right movements left and right.
What he doesn't understand is that these movement are nationalist movements, mainly anti-migration as well. They don't mind the right sort of immigrants though. And also mainly anti-establishment and anti-EU. Not that they mind international co-operation, they just want the nations to have the final say. They basically want EU replaced with a much looser confederation. They are not pro-USA. For that you'll have to look at parties who want a more liberal economic policy and who are very much pro-EU, not the nationalists. Nor are they in favor of reducing workers rights and the welfare systems, like MUSK want.
Imagine the reaction of the MAGA segment if a Chinese billionaire supported Trump and tried to lecture the MAGAs about how they should vote and how USA should be run. They'd go berserk!
Being seen to be in the pocket of an American billionaire is not a seller in nationalists circles in Europe.
Which is probably why Musk has fallen out with Farrage in UK. Because his potential voters want even more sovereignty for UK, not dependence on what they probably already see as a too meddling USA. They don't want tax-cuts or a tax-haven for billionaires. They want a better society for Britons only. Dreaming of sunlit uplands anno 1955, that never were.
As for Alternative Für Deutchland. They get their voters mainly from the former East Germany, who almost per default are not particularly big admirers of USA. Their main beef, apart from curbing immigration to Germany by in particular Africans and Muslims is that they feel the reunification hasn't really benefited the eastern part of Germany. On top of that there is an increasing segment of working poor in Germany, just as in USA. These voters don't want more of that.
Musk has totally misread the political landscape in Europe.

Now what has this got to do with Denmark, you ask? It's because Denmark for many years now has pursued an immigration and assimilation policy that the nationalist parties want to implement on their first day in power. (The DK policy is incidentally being copied more and more all over Europe, latest now also very much by Sweden.) The Danish nationalist party (the Danish People's Party) was, until fairly recently (2000-2018), the best organized and most influential - (and also less extreme, because they early on weeded out the village idiots) - nationalist party in Europe. Geert Wilders in the Netherlands and Marine le Pen in France for example were inspired by them.
The main difference between MAGA and the European nationalist parties, is that the European ones are happy to work together, despite putting national interests first. The MAGAs BTW are equivalent to the village idiots the most successful European nationalist parties have kicked out.
Now Trump is threatening and bullying a European country. To European nationalists that's a red rag. It also undermines their agenda and main argument about national states first, because it shows that no country can stand alone and alliances and national co-operation are a necessity in the world we live in today.

This was a very simplified overview of European nationalism and why Musk is so much off mark here.

I'll give Trump one laurel though.
He is doing wonders for the European defense industry and for a much more closer European defense co-operation and for EU creating a true alternative to NATO. Especially because we don't know if another Trump will win the election in 2028 and/or 2032.
 
Last edited:
Muhler said:
That's simple. The game for sympathy is on. And it is still in everyone's interest that this is toned down. In that light DK commentators see Vance's statement as a way of backing down, from the threat of military use. - And it is expected that it won't be the last time Vance will have to do that. - Keep in mind that once Trump is in power, he may not be that useful anymore for those behind him. His administration and the people who have been selected as his government will be able to work on whatever plans are laid out. USA is IMO on the threshold of becoming a "feudalistic society" with billionaires as the nobles. Even the MAGA segment may not be that useful anymore. They already voted him in...
Trump has declared that he will sign more than 100 presidential decrees on his first day. I suggest everybody look at them. The ones with the soft-walled camps along the Mexican border are particularly interesting IMO.

Anyway, our PM, Mette Frederiksen, may be many things but weak or afraid of confrontation, that she is not.
As is usual when there is a national crisis the PM called the other parties in the Parliament in to a conference. Partly to inform about the governments intention but also to discuss and get full political backing to the Danish stance.
Right now it is in DKs interest to play this down and let USA and especially of course Trump look like a bully picking on one of the small children in the school yard. It's angling for global sympathy. And unless I'm very much mistaken, apart from the MAGA segment in USA very few worldwide are impressed with Trump these days.
At the same time DK is sending signals to USA, especially moderate Republicans, that DK is still a willing US ally and is of course ready to discuss the security-political concerns USA have in the Arctic as well as making it clear that the Greenlanders are perfectly willing to discuss US investments in Greenland - on their terms.

Anyway, had trump and co done their homework they would have noticed that DK at present is a member of the UN Security Council. I'm not sure the UN members states will be particularly impressed with USA trying to extort a a member of the Security Council, let alone invading said member. It would undermine UN quite a lot.
On top of that DK will in a few months be chairman of EU, which means the country in charge will lay out the overall policy for EU. In this case major investments in the EU infrastructure, Because EU has the money, but not the economic permissions to do that on a national scale, if it conflicts with certain economic boundaries. DK is planned to head the creation of a common EU investment plan, that means that EU will take major loans, rather than individual countries. This is important! Because Germany in particular very much wants this.
So a Trump who want's put tariffs on pretty much everybody, will in six months be facing the same PM, he is right now seriously p*ssing off in regards to Greenland. Who has the backing of an EU that is also annoyed right now with Trump, and who are very seriously annoyed with Trump's pet-troublemaker, Musk!
Not to mention that EU as a whole will be less than impressed with a Trump trying to extort the EU country that holds the chairmanship. That undermines EU.
Canada has already been eyeing EU in regards to increased co-operation and trade, minimizing their dependence on USA. Mexico is also being cultivated by EU, and as they also feel threatened by a "Trumpist USA", while at the same very much being a growing industrial economy of the America, they too will be happy to look for alternatives ASAP.

On top of that DK is among the Nine Eyes members. That is a select number of countries that gather, (DK has a large SIGINT station in the Baltic Sea) and exchange intelligence, USA and UK being other members.
DK is also the largest manufacturer of components to the F-35 fighter, outside USA. Especially in regards to the sensor systems. Just as we were in regards to the F-16. DK and the rest of Europe produce a lot of components in advanced US weapons, way more than most Americans even imagine.
DK supply the majority of the insulin that is used in USA.
Mærsk runs several major US harbors.
DK alone can actually bite back. And with friends and allies as well as general global sympathy behind us, the bite can be harder than Trump and MAGAs may imagine. DK is a small country, we have spend centuries building alliances, we have a lot of experience in the diplomatic under-dog game. We had to.
I know, for some this may look like bragging. Well, let's hope it doesn't come to a test then.

Elon Musk roams Europe totally not understanding the political scene. He is supporting far right movements left and right.
What he doesn't understand is that these movement are nationalist movements, mainly anti-migration as well. They don't mind the right sort of immigrants though. And also mainly anti-establishment and anti-EU. Not that they mind international co-operation, they just want the nations to have the final say. They basically want EU replaced with a much looser confederation. They are not pro-USA. For that you'll have to look at parties who want a more liberal economic policy and who are very much pro-EU, not the nationalists. Nor are they in favor of reducing workers rights and the welfare systems, like MUSK want.
Imagine the reaction of the MAGA segment if a Chinese billionaire supported Trump and tried to lecture the MAGAs about how they should vote and how USA should be run. They'd go berserk!
Being seen to be in the pocket of an American billionaire is not a seller in nationalists circles in Europe.
Which is probably why Musk has fallen out with Farrage in UK. Because his potential voters want even more sovereignty for UK, not dependence on what they probably already see as a too meddling USA. They don't want tax-cuts or a tax-haven for billionaires. They want a better society for Britons only. Dreaming of sunlit uplands anno 1955, that never were.
As for Alternative Für Deutchland. They get their voters mainly from the former East Germany, who almost per default are not particularly big admirers of USA. Their main beef, apart from curbing immigration to Germany by in particular Africans and Muslims is that they feel the reunification hasn't really benefited the eastern part of Germany. On top of that there is an increasing segment of working poor in Germany, just as in USA. These voters don't want more of that.
Musk has totally misread the political landscape in Europe.

Now what has this got to do with Denmark, you ask? It's because Denmark for many years now has pursued an immigration and assimilation policy that the nationalist parties want to implement on their first day in power. (The DK policy is incidentally being copied more and more all over Europe, latest now also very much by Sweden.) The Danish nationalist party (the Danish People's Party) was, until fairly recently (2000-2018), the best organized and most influential - (and also less extreme, because they early on weeded out the village idiots) - nationalist party in Europe. Geert Wilders in the Netherlands and Marine le Pen in France for example were inspired by them.
The main difference between MAGA and the European nationalist parties, is that the European ones are happy to work together, despite putting national interests first. The MAGAs BTW are equivalent to the village idiots the most successful European nationalist parties have kicked out.
Now Trump is threatening and bullying a European country. To European nationalists that's a red rag. It also undermines their agenda and main argument about national states first, because it shows that no country can stand alone and alliances and national co-operation are a necessity in the world we live in today.

This was a very simplified overview of European nationalism and why Musk is so much off mark here.

I'll give Trump one laurel though.
He is doing wonders for the European defense industry and for a much more closer European defense co-operation and for EU creating a true alternative to NATO. Especially because we don't know if another Trump will win the election in 2028 and/or 2032.
Click to expand...
Thank you Muhler. As always, an exceptional summary/explanation of the situation. The USA must look like an absolute dumpster fire to the rest of the world right now. As an American, I am so sorry that a portion of the population has put the entire world in this position.

Yes, I think that the US MAGA people have completely misjudged what is imported from DK to the US as Trump literally threatens DK with tariffs and he and his ilk are not resorting to literally belittling an ally and founding member of NATO. I have started watching on YouTube more independent media and some foreign news (I watched one from France in English the other day and I sometimes watch videos from a radio show from Britian, etc.) And this Greenland issue, amongst all the other issues, they are just confounded about what is going on, on the one hand and literally laughing on the other at Trump and his ilk. Musk is certainly not making a good impression. Plus, the mocking of Don Jr's Greenland stunt is making the rounds and is universally mocked as pathetic and desperate and has garnered quite a bit of sympathy for Greenlanders and the whole situation.
 
It is sad indeed. For the consequences of Trump's boorish foreign policy will have serious economic consequences for all, in USA as well as outside.
Which is why I wonder how useful Trump is to his billionaire supporters and boards of major US companies, when he has taken office. - Vance may seem much more... malleable to many of them.

I have also noted a number of pro-Trump Greenland coverage appearing in YouTube, must of which are based on outright lies and staging. The MAGAs have a wonderful time there - as if their opinion really matters anymore...
I begin to strongly suspect that Musk has set up dedicated troll-centers modeled on the Russian.
 
Muhler said:
That's simple. The game for sympathy is on. And it is still in everyone's interest that this is toned down. In that light DK commentators see Vance's statement as a way of backing down, from the threat of military use. - And it is expected that it won't be the last time Vance will have to do that. - Keep in mind that once Trump is in power, he may not be that useful anymore for those behind him. His administration and the people who have been selected as his government will be able to work on whatever plans are laid out. USA is IMO on the threshold of becoming a "feudalistic society" with billionaires as the nobles. Even the MAGA segment may not be that useful anymore. They already voted him in...
Trump has declared that he will sign more than 100 presidential decrees on his first day. I suggest everybody look at them. The ones with the soft-walled camps along the Mexican border are particularly interesting IMO.

Anyway, our PM, Mette Frederiksen, may be many things but weak or afraid of confrontation, that she is not.
As is usual when there is a national crisis the PM called the other parties in the Parliament in to a conference. Partly to inform about the governments intention but also to discuss and get full political backing to the Danish stance.
Right now it is in DKs interest to play this down and let USA and especially of course Trump look like a bully picking on one of the small children in the school yard. It's angling for global sympathy. And unless I'm very much mistaken, apart from the MAGA segment in USA very few worldwide are impressed with Trump these days.
At the same time DK is sending signals to USA, especially moderate Republicans, that DK is still a willing US ally and is of course ready to discuss the security-political concerns USA have in the Arctic as well as making it clear that the Greenlanders are perfectly willing to discuss US investments in Greenland - on their terms.

Anyway, had trump and co done their homework they would have noticed that DK at present is a member of the UN Security Council. I'm not sure the UN members states will be particularly impressed with USA trying to extort a a member of the Security Council, let alone invading said member. It would undermine UN quite a lot.
On top of that DK will in a few months be chairman of EU, which means the country in charge will lay out the overall policy for EU. In this case major investments in the EU infrastructure, Because EU has the money, but not the economic permissions to do that on a national scale, if it conflicts with certain economic boundaries. DK is planned to head the creation of a common EU investment plan, that means that EU will take major loans, rather than individual countries. This is important! Because Germany in particular very much wants this.
So a Trump who want's put tariffs on pretty much everybody, will in six months be facing the same PM, he is right now seriously p*ssing off in regards to Greenland. Who has the backing of an EU that is also annoyed right now with Trump, and who are very seriously annoyed with Trump's pet-troublemaker, Musk!
Not to mention that EU as a whole will be less than impressed with a Trump trying to extort the EU country that holds the chairmanship. That undermines EU.
Canada has already been eyeing EU in regards to increased co-operation and trade, minimizing their dependence on USA. Mexico is also being cultivated by EU, and as they also feel threatened by a "Trumpist USA", while at the same very much being a growing industrial economy of the America, they too will be happy to look for alternatives ASAP.

On top of that DK is among the Nine Eyes members. That is a select number of countries that gather, (DK has a large SIGINT station in the Baltic Sea) and exchange intelligence, USA and UK being other members.
DK is also the largest manufacturer of components to the F-35 fighter, outside USA. Especially in regards to the sensor systems. Just as we were in regards to the F-16. DK and the rest of Europe produce a lot of components in advanced US weapons, way more than most Americans even imagine.
DK supply the majority of the insulin that is used in USA.
Mærsk runs several major US harbors.
DK alone can actually bite back. And with friends and allies as well as general global sympathy behind us, the bite can be harder than Trump and MAGAs may imagine. DK is a small country, we have spend centuries building alliances, we have a lot of experience in the diplomatic under-dog game. We had to.
I know, for some this may look like bragging or arrogance. Well, let's hope it doesn't come to a test then.

Elon Musk roams Europe totally not understanding the political scene. He is supporting far right movements left and right.
What he doesn't understand is that these movement are nationalist movements, mainly anti-migration as well. They don't mind the right sort of immigrants though. And also mainly anti-establishment and anti-EU. Not that they mind international co-operation, they just want the nations to have the final say. They basically want EU replaced with a much looser confederation. They are not pro-USA. For that you'll have to look at parties who want a more liberal economic policy and who are very much pro-EU, not the nationalists. Nor are they in favor of reducing workers rights and the welfare systems, like MUSK want.
Imagine the reaction of the MAGA segment if a Chinese billionaire supported Trump and tried to lecture the MAGAs about how they should vote and how USA should be run. They'd go berserk!
Being seen to be in the pocket of an American billionaire is not a seller in nationalists circles in Europe.
Which is probably why Musk has fallen out with Farrage in UK. Because his potential voters want even more sovereignty for UK, not dependence on what they probably already see as a too meddling USA. They don't want tax-cuts or a tax-haven for billionaires. They want a better society for Britons only. Dreaming of sunlit uplands anno 1955, that never were.
As for Alternative Für Deutchland. They get their voters mainly from the former East Germany, who almost per default are not particularly big admirers of USA. Their main beef, apart from curbing immigration to Germany by in particular Africans and Muslims is that they feel the reunification hasn't really benefited the eastern part of Germany. On top of that there is an increasing segment of working poor in Germany, just as in USA. These voters don't want more of that.
Musk has totally misread the political landscape in Europe.

Now what has this got to do with Denmark, you ask? It's because Denmark for many years now has pursued an immigration and assimilation policy that the nationalist parties want to implement on their first day in power. (The DK policy is incidentally being copied more and more all over Europe, latest now also very much by Sweden.) The Danish nationalist party (the Danish People's Party) was, until fairly recently (2000-2018), the best organized and most influential - (and also less extreme, because they early on weeded out the village idiots) - nationalist party in Europe. Geert Wilders in the Netherlands and Marine le Pen in France for example were inspired by them.
The main difference between MAGA and the European nationalist parties, is that the European ones are happy to work together, despite putting national interests first. The MAGAs BTW are equivalent to the village idiots the most successful European nationalist parties have kicked out.
Now Trump is threatening and bullying a European country. To European nationalists that's a red rag. It also undermines their agenda and main argument about national states first, because it shows that no country can stand alone and alliances and national co-operation are a necessity in the world we live in today.

This was a very simplified overview of European nationalism and why Musk is so much off mark here.

I'll give Trump one laurel though.
He is doing wonders for the European defense industry and for a much more closer European defense co-operation and for EU creating a true alternative to NATO. Especially because we don't know if another Trump will win the election in 2028 and/or 2032.
Click to expand...
Oh Muhler, thank you very much for your comments on what the situation means for us in Europe right now. I would never have thought how grateful we can actually be that we are a united Europe and are strong as a result. Imagine if things were still like they used to be (everyone against everyone)
As it would otherwise become too political and this thread could be locked, I'll try to be brief. Denmark in particular is a role model for many German politicians (under the table) in many areas. My country is on the brink in every respect, economically, socially and financially. The mood is explosive, we have new elections in February.
The radical right-wing AFD is also gaining more and more votes in the West. That is fatal, because they are a party of dumbasses. Most voters in the West will vote for them because they no longer trust the conservative parties, which have led the country into the abyss in every respect since 2015. The Danes have done much better than us. We really don't need Trump or Musk interfering here. They have absolutely no historical knowledge and should stay out of it.
I won't say any more about this now, it would go beyond the scope.
 
While I was writing the above the Greenlandic PM had a press conference, well attended by the international press.

Here he repeated that Greenland was open for negotiations with USA in regards to investments and in developing the country.
He was specifically asked whether Greenland want independence and replied that was the aim, perhaps not right now, but eventually.
He also said he was pleased that the US proposal about buying Greenland, had opened up a (in Greenland much wanted) debate about the issues in Greenland the future of the country.
Greenland often expressing that they feel neglected by Denmark, certainly in regards to getting attention.
- IMO there is probably a good deal of truth in that argument. On the other hand Greenlanders also suffer a lot from island mentality. I.e. the world tends to end about 100 off the coast of Greenland. So problems that elsewhere would be considered fairly small, because there are so many more worries out there, tend to become huge on an island.

There was not a word about the Greenlanders wanting to be Americans. In fact none of the parties there want that.

- I believe that Trump's courtship will do more damage to the Greenlandic independence movement, than benefit it. Because a lot of Greenlanders who might otherwise have voted in favor of politicians being in favor of independence, may have been discouraged by the prospect of being run over by USA - or perhaps rather US money and political influence.
And some may think that Greenland already has an investor and a partnership country with influence within that investor - EU.

Anyway, Greenlandic independence will be the main-theme of the upcoming general election in Greenland. the result will be most interesting!
 
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