George III (1738-1820) and Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz (1744-1818)

If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
From my reading on the subject, many of the English court thought Charlotte to not be attractive and had many names to describe how she looked.
She was much different from Lady Sarah Lennox, whom the King had fallen in love with and was not permitted to marry because she was a commoner.
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Withering Hanoverians

rodomjr said:
.I want to know why they called my favorite Queen Charlotte as "monkey-faced"??? To me her looks is very fine
Welcome to TRF rodomjr.
Our modern Western culture is often accused of being looks and body obsessed, but those Hanoverians were downright cruel. Even Queen Victoria in her (many) letters would write at length and in great detail of the imperfections and "ugliness" she would perceive in all manner of people's physical appearance. Not even new-born babies escaped her withering eye. Of course this attitude was not confined to the Queen but was mainstream within society at the time.
From my reading on the subject, many of the English court thought Charlotte to not be attractive and had many names to describe how she looked.

She was much different from Lady Sarah Lennox, whom the King had fallen in love with and was not permitted to marry because she was a commoner.

Hi! Tiaraprin, Yes, I had been doing research for 15 years and as I realized more that most of them insulted Queen Charlotte on base her Africa facial feature ("wide broad nose, thick thick and woolly hair textue")...Similar to my idol professional golf, Tiger Woods, who his father is part of Africa, Chinese, Europe and Originally Inhabitant Indigenous/Native-American and her mother is part of Chinese, Europe and Thailand (5 different tribes), that most America media labeled Tiger as "NEGRO" accoring to an ancient law: One-Drop Rule" ( no matter how decent person he is... And please click , and ... :confused:

"She was considered by many to be dull and extremely plain. She had little wit or intellect. She did enjoy music and literature, but bearing and caring for their 15 children took up most of her time."

Hi! Tiaraprin, ...My homestate, North Carolina's largest city, Charlotte (It is in southwest of Norh Carolina near South Carolina borderline) and early German and Scottish settlers voted to name it after Queen Sophia Charlotte...Not only they had to honor her but they loved her and she was so popular to many average England citizens! A big problems are writers who are so prejudiced against Queen Sophia Charlotte and they tried to de-grade everything to her as possible in order to make her looks bad! :confused:
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I wonder how much time she actually spent raising her young children. After all, there were wet nurses and nursemaids.
iowabelleI wonder how much time she actually spent raising her young children. After all, there were wet nurses and nursemaids.

Hi! iowabelle, ...Well, this is an excellent question and main problem that there is not enough write about her life include her native northeast German which she was a German Prince and her Africa Moor root in Portugal/Spain... :confused: :confused: :confused: :eek: :cool: Roosevelt D. Odom, Jr.
Continue discussing about Queen Charlotte's face feature...

(Sophia) Charlotte
Birth 19 MAY 1744, Mirow Death 17 NOV 1818, Kew Palace Burial , St. George Chap., Windsor, England Father Duke Charles Louis FrederickMother Elizabeth of Saxe-Hildburghausen ALBERTINFamily: George III HANOVER, King of England
  1. George IV HANOVER, King of England
  2. Frederick HANOVER, Duke of York
  3. William IV Henry HANOVER, King of England
  4. Charlotte Augusta Matilda HANOVER, Princess Royal
  5. Edward Augustus HANOVER, Duke of Kent (Note: Queen Victoria (1819-1901) who ruled the the United kingdon of Great Britain and Ireland from 1837 to 1901) is Edward Augustus Hanover's only daughter. It means modern England monarchy Queen Elizabeth II's children and grandchildren are descended from King George Hanover II & Queen Sophia Charlotte!:rolleyes:
  6. Augusta Sophia HANOVER
  7. Elizabeth HANOVER
  8. Ernest Augustus I HANOVER, King of Hanover
  9. Augustus Frederick HANOVER, Duke of Sussex
  10. Duke Adolphus of Cambridge HANOVER
  11. Mary HANOVER
  12. Sophia HANOVER
  13. Octavius HANOVER
  14. Alfred HANOVER
  15. Amelia HANOVER
NOTES: (Sophia) Charlotte, fifth and youngest dau. of Duke Charles Louis Frederick of Mecklenburg-Strelitz and Elizabeth Albertin of Saxe-Hildburghausen. Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz; Duchess of Mecklenburg-Strelitz. Appears to be "monkey-faced" in many of her portraits.:eek:

Interests and patronage

Styles of
Queen CharlotteReference styleHer MajestySpoken styleYour MajestyAlternative styleMa'am
Queen Charlotte was keenly interested in the fine arts and supported Johann Christian Bach, who was her music teacher. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, then aged eight, dedicated his Opus 3 to her, at her request. The queen also founded orphanages and a hospital for expectant mothers.
In 2004, the Queen's Gallery at Buckingham Palace staged an exhibition illustrating George and Charlotte's enthusiastic arts patronage, which was particularly enlightened in contrast to that of earlier Hanoverian monarchs; it compared favorably to the adventuresome tastes of the king's father, Frederick, Prince of Wales. Among the royal couple's favored craftsmen and artists were the cabinetmaker William Vile, silversmith Thomas Heming, the landscape designer Capability Brown, and the German painter Johann Zoffany, who frequently painted the king and queen and their children in charmingly informal scenes, such as a portrait of Queen Charlotte and her children as she sat at her dressing table.
The queen also was a well-educated amateur botanist and helped establish what is today Kew Gardens.;)
The education of women was a great importance to the queen, and she saw to it that her daughters were better educated than was usual for young women of the day.
"History is a lie agreed upon" Napoleon Bonaparte
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English's first African-British Queen: Phillipa...

My favorite English Queen Sophia Charlotte is not really first African-British Queen and there was a lot of Kings and Queens of Africa descendants before Charlotte!!! Note: Like Queen Charlotte, Queen Phillipa was not consider attracting to most 14th Europeans, too! Roosevelt D. Odom, Jr.

Queen Phillipa
England's first black queen, mother of the black prince

Philippa was the daughter of William of Hainault, a lord in part of what is now Belgium. When she was nine the King of England, Edward II, decided that he would marry his son, the future Edward III, to her, and sent one of his bishops, a Bishop Stapeldon, to look at her. He described her thus:
"The lady whom we saw has not uncomely hair, betwixt blue-black and brown. Her head is cleaned shaped; her forehead high and broad, and standing somewhat forward. Her face narrows between the eyes, and the lower part of her face is still more narrow and slender than the forehead. Her eyes are blackish brown and deep. Her nose is fairly smooth and even, save that is somewhat broad at the tip and flattened, yet it is no snub nose. Her nostrils are also broad, her mouth fairly wide. Her lips somewhat full and especially the lower lip…all her limbs are well set and unmaimed, and nought is amiss so far as a man may see. Moreover, she is brown of skin all over, and much like her father, and in all things she is pleasant enough, as it seems to us." :eek:
Four years later Prince Edward went to visit his bride-to-be and her family, and fell in live with her. She was betrothed to him and in 1327, when she was only 14, she arrived in England. The next year, when she was 15, they married and were crowned King and Queen in 1330 when she was heavily pregnant with her first child and only 17.
This first child was called Edward, like his father, but is better known as the Black Prince. Many say that he was called this because of the colour of his armour, but there are records that show that he was called 'black' when he was very small. The French called him 'Le Noir'.:confused: :cool:
Philippa was a remarkable woman. She was very wise and was known and loved by the English for her kindliness and restraint. She would travel with her husband on his campaigns and take her children as well. When the King was abroad she ruled in his absence. Queen's College in Oxford University was founded under her direction by her chaplain, Robert de Eglesfield in 1341 when she was 28. She brought many artists and scholars from Hainault who contributed to English culture.:rolleyes:
When she died, Edward never really recovered, and she was much mourned by him and the country. King Edward had a beautiful sculpture made for her tomb which you can see today at Westminster Abbey.;)

Sourced from the Black Cultural Archives
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Queen Charlotte


I don't think Queen Charlotte looks like a 'monkey face'. I think she looks no better nor no worse than any other queen or person for that matter.

Here in Canada, we honour Queen Charlotte with the capital city of Prince Edward Island (our smallest province, named after Queen Victoria's father), Charlottetown.
Also, on the west coast of British Columbia, is a large group of islands called the Queen Charlotte Islands.
We seem to have honoured her better than some kings and queens!

Thats interesting about Queen Charlotte having African blood - I had never heard that until reading some obscure article online a few weeks ago. I wish I could remember where I found the article. Does anyone have a breakdown on the genealogy of Queen Charlotte?
Also intersting to me are the many references that Queen Mary does make to being a descendant of Queen Charlotte. Queen Mary is a fascinating person to me, made all the more so by her Hungarian noble blood - which, though not Royal, she holds in highest esteem.
And on that subject, was Queen Mary's paternal grandmother in the many who claim descent from Atilla the Hun?
And our county is named after her German home- Mecklenburg. Here is the Wikipedia article on the city of Charlotte (the nickname of the city is The Queen City) The airport has a statue of Queen isn't the best representation of her- its quite odd looking actually. I'll try to find a picture of it on the net- here is a link to a post I wrote that has the picture of Queen Charlotte.

Reina said:
I heard that she was quite celebrated by the ppl, inclduing ppl in the colonies. Also Charlotte, NC is named after her.
I agree that she seemed to be celebrated by all people. She had to have been a strong woman to deal with her husband and all his issues.
The Black Queen

The are three pieces of evidence that lead me to believe Queen Charlotte Sophia, consort to George III was of African heritage.

First, the Ramsey portrait made of her just before George III's cornation:
The Black Queen

You'll note the inset head image is definitely that of a woman of African heritage. I believe the inset image is the original. I have seen at least four other versions of the same head each rendered with distinct European features. In fact, so distinctly different are each of versions I've seen it is clear to me a concerted effort was made to render a version of the sitter's face completely different from what I believe was the Ramsey original.

Note also in the second version the hair from the first was clearly copied, or I should say, the face from the first erased and a more European one painted in its place.

Also, I've included a cartoon made of George III and Queen Charlotte where although both face's are exaggerated hers is clearly rendered in a distinctly ethnic way, a way to my eye, seems to be based on the way person I marked "original" looks.

There are other things...

In his dairy, Baron von Stockmar surgeon to the Queen writes about her, "She had the face of a true mulatto."
Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On the link above please ignore Mario de Valdes y Cocom's nonsense about Queen Charlotte being nine times removed from a distant ancestor of African heritage, even if that were true, that wouldn't explain her "true mulatto face."

Many other comments are recorded about Queen Charlotte's looks and most have this in common: they speak of a woman who looked not like folks entirely expected, that she had a "frog-like" appearance, was "not pretty" etc.

Finally, for the purposes of the novel I'm writing about her, I'm presuming her "father" was a full-blooded African named Abram Gannibal.

Gannibal was a noted Russian General who visited England several times during the 18th century.

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I want to know why they called my favorite Queen Charlotte as "monkey-faced"?
I'd love to know where that "monkey-face" quote comes from.

I'm writing a novel about Queen Charlotte's supposed black ancestry and hae never seen that quote.

The Black Queen
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I can't remember where I read this, but there was one writer who claimed that Queen Charlotte was descended from an African diplomat who was present in the Russian court. The article gave the name of this man. I only wish I could remember where I read it!
There are two ladies today in the British aristocracy who claim such ancestry: the Duchess of Abercorn and her sister, the Duchess of Westminster. Not only are they descendants of Sophie, the Electress of Hannibal but they are also descendants of the Russian poet Pushkin and his African great-grandfather, Abram Petrovich Gannibal, the associate of Peter the Great.

I was just looking at wikipedia about this queen, and it would seem that any "African" blood would have been at least 9 generations in the past. By my estimate that's about 2 centuries, maybe more -- so the total effect upon the queen's appearance must have been negligible. (As a comparison, I am only 5 generations away from my Native American roots and you wouldn't know that unless I told you.)

Let's face it, some royals (even today) are less than photogenic, and it would seem to me that describing the queen as African was probably more of a scurrilous political attack on her than an accurate description of her appearance.
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I have a difficult time really picturing how Queen Charlotte mush have looked. From the descriptions I have read they make her out to be not very attractive and yet from the paintings I have seen I don't think she looks unattractive at all. But I do understand that artists tended to flatter their subjects and create a more idealized image, many of Winterhalter's paintings of Queen Victoria are idealized a bit, so it is difficult to really have a conception on how she really looked.
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See time on wikipedia to King George III from england (1738-1820) and Queen Charlotte princess from Mecklenburg/Strelitz(1744-1818)what with mirow to do have,where she there toward born is!What in the ex DDR is in eastgermany!What 30 kilometre from her away is!What me interest is if it ever still royal member here give,or member from other royal Familys the Mecklenburg/Strelitz visit have!That have a special reason why i ask!
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to king george 3 and sophie charlotte from Mecklenburg/Strelitz!

Queen Charlotte, (née Duchess Sophia Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz; 19 May 174417 November 1818) was the queen consort of George III of the United Kingdom (1738–1820).
Queen Charlotte was a patroness of the arts, known to Johann Christian Bach and Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, among others. She was also an amateur botanist who helped establish Kew Gardens. George III and Queen Charlotte had 15 children, 13 of whom survived to adulthood.

Charlotte was the youngest daughter of Duke Charles Louis Frederick of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, Prince of Mirow (23 February 17075 June 1752) and his wife, Princess Elizabeth Albertine of Saxe-Hildburghausen, Duchess in Saxony (4 August 171329 June 1761).
She was a granddaughter of Adolf Frederick II, Duke of Mecklenburg-Strelitz (19 October 165812 May 1708) by his third wife, Christiane Emilie Antonie, Princess of Schwarzburg-Sondershausen (March, 1681 – 1 November 1751). Her father's elder half brother reigned from 1708 to 1753 as Adolf Friedrich


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to king george 3 and sophie charlotte from Mecklenburg/Strelitz!

Princess Charlotte was collected at Cuxhaven by a squadron of British yachts and warships under Admiral Anson (including the specially renamed HMY Royal Charlotte), but on its return the squadron was three times blown over to the Norwegian coast by westerly gales and took ten days to reach Harwich, which it did in early September 1761. Charlotte then travelled to London, where the couple were married at the Chapel Royal in St. James's Palace, London, on 8 September of that year. Her mother-in-law did not welcome her with open arms, and for some time there was a slight tension between the two. However, the king's mother had yet to accept any woman with whom he was alleged to have been involved, therefore it seems that the young king cared little for her approval by this time.
Despite not having been her husband's first choice as a bride, and having been treated with a general lack of sympathy by her mother-in-law, the Dowager Princess of Wales, Charlotte's marriage was a happy one, and the king was apparently never unfaithful to her. In the course of their marriage, they had 15 children, all but two of whom (Octavius and Alfred) survived into adulthood. As time went on, she wielded considerable power within the realm, although she evidently never misused it.

1 from her Kids was George 4 on the picture and still 14 other kids toward wikipedia!


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George III ... Tryant?

Hi I was just wondering about the viewpoints of other members of this board... especially British & American Viewpoints.

Do you view George III as a tyrant during the American Revolution???

I'm not Brittish or American, but I will still share my two cents on this. Well, I don't think George III was better or worse than any other king of the time. But not listening to the Americans, who (as I've understood it) didn't ask for more than seats in the parlament in London, when they had to pay taxes to the Brittish crown, was really foolish. But I guess it was fate, that those thirteen colonies would liberate themselves and found the US.
I agree, the British were desperate to keep the Colonies and it was a very cruel war. The same happened in South America wiith independence wars. The Spanish used repression, torture and whatever they could imagine to win the war and prevent the colonies to become independent. They were wars like any other experienced anywhere else.

The reason why Countries such as Australia, Canada, etc. remained in good terms with Britain is because there was no independence war in those Countries. If you come to Canada you will find a number of places/cities/towns/squares/etc. named after Queen Victoria all over the Country, even in the French Canada. In the US there are not many places named after the famous Queen; the reason is that she became Queen relatively soon after America's Independence. It would have appeared treason to name a city/town after Queen Victoria in the US during 19th century. Even now, Queen Elizabeth is officially Canada's head of State, as it is in Australia and many commonwealth countries.
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I am fascinated by Queen Charlotte's friendship with Queen Marie Antoinette. Although the Queen of Great Britain was 11 years older than the Queen of France, they shared many interests. They have never met face to face - they kept the friendship to pen and paper. Marie Antoinette confided in the Queen of Great Britain upon the outbreak of the French Revolution and, according to Lady Antonia Fraser, Queen Charlotte had even organized apartments to be prepared and ready for the refugee royal family of France to stay in :(
Would that have been wise? It sounds as though Queen Charlotte was a kind woman and would have helped a fellow royal but would Parliament have allowed a deposed monarch to live in England? Wasn't Republican fever spreading through Europe at the time, thereby causing unrest in many countries?
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No, maybe not. But weren't Marie Antoinette and her family trying to flee to her brother in Austria, but they were captured? Too bad. If they only had stayed where they were, maybe they could have stayed king and queen of France, but not with as much power as before. But that discussion is for another thread.
It was only last night that I was wondering ... was there any contact or Royal visits between the English Monarchy and the French Monarchy during the 18th cent... ? I could nt think of much.... but now I learn the two Queens were at least communicating, if only by letter !

When you think that England and France were perhaps the two most eminent Monarchies in Europe with so much in common... yet there was really no contact nor state visits during all those years.... nothing on the scale of Henry 8th and the Cloth of Gold
I suppose they were divided by a channel and centuries of war and rivalry .
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I don't recall there was particular unrest in the England of George III at that time, although later in the 1790s and early 1800s, the RF wasn't very popular in England due to the excesses of the sons of George III. But, I think that was later than the 1780s-early 90s. I'm not an expert on the RF in this era, to be sure.
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