General Things About Royals

[JR76]

I believe only the royal courts of UK and the Netherlands still recognize the throne of Greece even though Greece itself abolished the monarchy.



I don't understand why Constantine is still "clutching" on something that doesn't exist anymore.

Nobody is recognising the now defunct throne of Greece, but the courts of Europe recognise the position and titles of King Constantine and his family. All in accordance with European traditions and protocol. All European nations recognise the republican government of Greece.

 

[fandesacs2003]

Nobody is recognising the now defunct throne of Greece, but the courts of Europe recognise the position and titles of King Constantine and his family. All in accordance with European traditions and protocol. All European nations recognise the republican government of Greece.

Once a King always a King. Titles are not lost. King Konstantine has been and will stay a King. He is just not King of Greece anymore.
People make a fuss about using royal titles of non reigning houses but still use the title for an Admiral or a President, even if they are not active anymore.

Sent from my SM-A426B using The Royals Community mobile app

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Nobody is recognising the now defunct throne of Greece, but the courts of Europe recognise the position and titles of King Constantine and his family. All in accordance with European traditions and protocol. All European nations recognise the republican government of Greece.

My understanding is that the protocol in Greece does not recognize any elevated position or titles for the ex-king.

He’s not clutching on anything, he was a King before the monarchy was abolished.

By the same logic Princess Beatrix of the Netherlands is entitled to call herself Queen: She was a monarch before her abdication, and her monarchy has not even been abolished.

Once a King always a King. Titles are not lost. King Konstantine has been and will stay a King. He is just not King of Greece anymore.
People make a fuss about using royal titles of non reigning houses but still use the title for an Admiral or a President, even if they are not active anymore.

I'm quite sure there would be a great deal of "fuss" if, say, Prince Andrew of the UK were to revert to using the military titles he has been stripped from.

Even when used with the permission of the government, the use of the title President for retired heads of state remains controversial in some countries.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

My understanding is that the protocol in Greece does not recognize any elevated position or titles for the ex-king.



By the same logic Princess Beatrix of the Netherlands is entitled to call herself Queen: She was a monarch before her abdication, and her monarchy has not even been abolished.



I'm quite sure there would be a great deal of "fuss" if, say, Prince Andrew of the UK were to revert to using the military titles he has been stripped from.

Even when used with the permission of the government, the use of the title President for retired heads of state remains controversial in some countries.

First off, the now Princess Beatrix abdicated and resorted to using her old title of Princess because the Queen mother title isn’t a thing in the Netherlands. The people who have heard of her knew she was once a Queen and can refer to her in any way, Princess or Queen. If someone wants to refer to Constantine as King, that’s their prerogative.

 

[theroyalfly]

By the same logic Princess Beatrix of the Netherlands is entitled to call herself Queen: She was a monarch before her abdication, and her monarchy has not even been abolished.

The Dutch monarchy has different traditions. Upon abdication, Beatrix reverts to being a Princess. Same title she held before her inauguration as Queen and that was also the case to the Queens before her namely Juliana and Wilhelmina. To add, it's also only in the Netherlands that even as Queen, it is customary for you to use your husband's and father's titles. Example: Her Royal Highness Princess Juliana of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau, Duchess of Mecklenburg, Princess of Lippe-Biesterfeld, etc. This wasn't the case for other Queen regnants AFAIK.

Regarding King Constantine II who is currently King in exile, in accordance with royal traditions, is still King. It's what we call (title of pretense and by courtesy), King Michael I of Romania, King Alfonso XIII of Spain, King Manuel II of Portugal or even Tsar Simeon II of the Bulgarians (who even became the 48th Prime Minister of Bulgaria). Their titles however is unofficial and legally disputed.

 

[JR76]

My understanding is that the protocol in Greece does not recognize any elevated position or titles for the ex-king.

I never said it did.

 

[Blog Real]

What future royal events or gatherings could we expect in the upcoming years? It could be milestone birthdays, jubilees or anniversaries, and are they likely to be marked and celebrated with fellow European royals?

Denmark
16 April 2020 - Queen Margrethe's 80th Birthday
14 January 2022 - Queen Margrethe's Golden Jubilee
5 February 2022 - Crown Princess Mary's 50th Birthday

Sweden
23 December 2018 - Queen Silvia's 75th Birthday
30 April 2021 - King Carl Gustaf's 75th Birthday
15 September 2023 - King Carl Gustaf's Golden Jubilee
15 September 2023 - Prince Daniel's 50th Birthday

Norway
21 February & 4 July 2022 - King Harald & Queen Sonja's 85th Birthdays
20 July 2023 - Crown Prince Haakon's 50th Birthday

The Royal House of Norway is likely to have a party to commemorate the 50th birthday of Crown Prince Haakon.
In 2023 we will also celebrate the 18th birthday of Prince Christian of Denmark and Princess Leonor of Spain.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The Royal House of Norway is likely to have a party to commemorate the 50th birthday of Crown Prince Haakon.
In 2023 we will also celebrate the 18th birthday of Prince Christian of Denmark and Princess Leonor of Spain.

I doubt there will be any such celebrations in Spain and if there's even a slice of cake it will behind closed doors at gloomy Zarzuela!

 

[Stefan]

I doubt there will be any such celebrations in Spain and if there's even a slice of cake it will behind closed doors at gloomy Zarzuela!

Probably we will get an offical act like the Princess making her oath to the constitution. At last something like this was done for the then Prince Felipe’s 18th birthday.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I never said it did.

I was replying to your comment "All in accordance with European traditions and protocol." Greece is part of Europe, so it is not universal protocol within Europe.

 

[muriel]

Probably we will get an offical act like the Princess making her oath to the constitution. At last something like this was done for the then Prince Felipe’s 18th birthday.

I think that is quite an elegant way to mark the 18th birthday of a future monarch.

 

[Stefan]

I think that is quite an elegant way to mark the 18th birthday of a future monarch.

Of course, but i find always nice if there is also a bit of another celebration.

 

[theroyalfly]

Of course, but i find always nice if there is also a bit of another celebration.

For sure. All I know is that there was a swearing-in ceremony to the Constitution. Did the then Prince of Asturias had a banquet for his 18th birthday? Or perhaps Elena or Cristina did? I really hope to see Princess Leonor in a tiara.

 

[Blog Real]

For sure. All I know is that there was a swearing-in ceremony to the Constitution. Did the then Prince of Asturias had a banquet for his 18th birthday? Or perhaps Elena or Cristina did? I really hope to see Princess Leonor in a tiara.

There will be an equal or similar ceremony for Leonor.
Whether there will be a feast I don't know.
I hope there is a new official photo of Leonor wearing a tiara.

 

[Stefan]

For sure. All I know is that there was a swearing-in ceremony to the Constitution. Did the then Prince of Asturias had a banquet for his 18th birthday? Or perhaps Elena or Cristina did? I really hope to see Princess Leonor in a tiara.

No Idea. But i'm pretty sure that there was no banquet for either of the 18th birthday in Spain as that not done in Spain- perhaps some private celebrations.
I also don't think there will be an official Gala Portrait of Princess Leonor for her 18th birthday.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Hopefully casareal will splash out for a new photo of Leonor for her 18th birthday.
Sadly Casareal is not very creative or media savvy so I don't expect much.

 

[sarahedwards2]

I doubt there will be any such celebrations in Spain and if there's even a slice of cake it will behind closed doors at gloomy Zarzuela!

Why, what’s going on in Spain?

 

[Prinsara]

Won't they have to have at least a new image of Leonor for official purposes, given she's going to be the adult heir? Anyway, they have a year to get their act together.

 

[Mbruno]

Which civil rights European royals have to give up compared to other citizens of their respective countries? Off the top of my head, keeping in mind that this may not hold in some countries and may apply only to "core members" of the Royal Family, or to people closer to the succession to the Crown:

1. Freedom of speech and association: royals are normally expected not to speak publicly on political or diplomatic matters, nor can they show preference for a particular political party or candidate, take part in political/partisan gatherings or events, or join any political/partisan organization.
2. Right to vote: although royals are not technically barred from voting, they are normally expected not to do so in countries where voting is not compulsory, nor can they stand as candidates in public elections.
3. Freedom of religion: in some countries such as Denmark, Norway, Sweden, or the United Kingdom, royals are required by law or the constitution to belong to a particular church or profess a particular faith to be able to succeed to the Crown. Although they are still technically free to change their religious affiliation, doing so may cause them to forefeit their succession rights.
4. Right to marry: although royals are again not legally barred from marrying whoever they want, marriages of people in the line of succession normally require some type of formal consent set out in the law or the constitution (for example, consent of the monarch and the government, or of the Parliament, or of the monarch and the Parliament). If royals who are subject to such requirement marry without consent, they forfeit their succession rights and the succession rights of their descendants.

Are the restrictions listed above reasonable as a counterpart to other rights and privileges that may be available to royals, but not to other citizens (including, most significantly, the eligibility to become the head of state)? Or are those restrictions unfair?

 

[Cissan]

Hi everyone! Longtime very inactive member here

I have thought a lot about the HRH-title lately. When someone misbehaves (e.g. Märta Louise), divorces (e.g. Diana) or when the family simply gets too big (e.g. Madeleine and Carl Philip's children), the royal families always react quickly by removing the HRH-title. But the royals in question always keep their prince/princess titles and their place in the line of succession and as far as I know there has been no difference in the apanage.

My question is really does the HRH thing mean anything in practice? Or is it just important in their world (and not the real one)? If we take Prince Carl Philip's children as an example; they are still princes, they have the same place in the line of succession and they do not receive any appanage either before or after the King removed their HRH-titles.

Does anyone know? Thanks!

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Hi everyone! Longtime very inactive member here

I have thought a lot about the HRH-title lately. When someone misbehaves (e.g. Märta Louise), divorces (e.g. Diana) or when the family simply gets too big (e.g. Madeleine and Carl Philip's children), the royal families always react quickly by removing the HRH-title. But the royals in question always keep their prince/princess titles and their place in the line of succession and as far as I know there has been no difference in the apanage.

My question is really does the HRH thing mean anything in practice? Or is it just important in their world (and not the real one)? If we take Prince Carl Philip's children as an example; they are still princes, they have the same place in the line of succession and they do not receive any appanage either before or after the King removed their HRH-titles.

Does anyone know? Thanks!

Welcome back!

I don't think removing the HRH from a Prince/ss makes any difference at all in this day and age, even in Europe's "royal world" (HRHs are no longer automatically given precedence above non-HRHs at court functions). In most cases, the removal of the HRH is not meant to have practical effects in itself, but to symbolize a meaningful change in a royal's status.

In the examples you cited:

Princess Märtha Louise of Norway: Her HRH was removed a month after she registered as a sole proprietor to conduct commercial activities and as a result was stripped of her apanage and tax-exempt status. (I think her choice to go into business was perhaps controversial but not seen as misbehavior at the time.)

Diana, Princess of Wales: Her HRH was removed when she divorced and consequently lost some of her official roles.

The children of Prince Carl Philip and Princess Madeleine of Sweden: Their HRHs were removed when it was decided that when they became adults, they – unlike previous adult royals in line to the throne – would live and work privately rather than undertaking publicly-funded official duties.


By the way, for future reference, there is a thread for discussions of titles which apply to multiple royal families.

Non-British Styles and Titles

The same reason the Napoleons still use their titles and so on. Miguel was deposed as king. And there are still those who see his line as the rightful claimants to the throne. For those who believe Miguel, and his line, are the rightful rulers, Maria had no right to strip her Uncle of such...

www.theroyalforums.com

 

[Iain]

First off, the now Princess Beatrix abdicated and resorted to using her old title of Princess because the Queen mother title isn’t a thing in the Netherlands. The people who have heard of her knew she was once a Queen and can refer to her in any way, Princess or Queen. If someone wants to refer to Constantine as King, that’s their prerogative.

Beatrix would not be caled Queen Mother as that title is held by a Queen who is the widow of a King, and mother of the new monarch, not by a Queen who was a Queen Regnant. However, the Netherlands has had a Queen Mother in the person of Queen Emma, the mother of Queen Wilhemina, who was known as Koningin Moeder.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Beatrix would not be caled Queen Mother as that title is held by a Queen who is the widow of a King, and mother of the new monarch, not by a Queen who was a Queen Regnant.

Just for clarification, that depends on the country. In Spain, Queen Isabel II was a queen regnant who abdicated and was called Queen Mother during the reign of her son.

 

[colinc1110085]

Hi! I just joined the forum today. I have been reading about European royalty and noble families and I find it all very interesting. I’m curious, though, who was the last “official” prince or noble to pass awa who was born in the German Reich before the 1918 revolutions? Maybe they were born in late 1918 and died in 2021 or something like that. They could be still around, but probably would be among the oldest people alive in Germany. Reason i’m wondering is because this is something i’ve thought about and it’d be interesting to know. Thanks!

 

[Stefan]

Hi! I just joined the forum today. I have been reading about European royalty and noble families and I find it all very interesting. I’m curious, though, who was the last “official” prince or noble to pass awa who was born in the German Reich before the 1918 revolutions? Maybe they were born in late 1918 and died in 2021 or something like that. They could be still around, but probably would be among the oldest people alive in Germany. Reason i’m wondering is because this is something i’ve thought about and it’d be interesting to know. Thanks!

Not sure if he was the last but one of them was Count Josef Hubert of Neipperg who was born in July 1918 and died in 2020.

 

[colinc1110085]

That’s exactly what I meant. Interesting, thanks. 2020 wasn’t that long ago yet it feels like it was! It’d be cool if someone from the Hohenzollern family were still around born during that time but I doubt it