General Discussion about Royal Residences 2: Sep 2022 -

[Sun Lion]

Most likely. Otherwise I suspect the Gloucester's wouldn't have moved out, as they did so (if I recall rightly) after H&M had been offered Frogmore so could have remained if using it more H&M was the main reason.

Recap of Royal residences:

BP - no one currently due to refurbishment. Offices for Charles and Camilla's staff and the wider Royal Household

Clarence House - where Charles and Camilla live and do some duties from while in London

St James - offices for Anne and Edward & Sophie and their staff as well as numerous parts of the wider Royal Household, e.g. the Chancellor of Honours. Anne also has her residence here (and has done for decades), Edward and Sophie moved their London residence (and office) here due to the BP refurbishments. Beatrice also has an apartment in the complex. Princess Alexandra also had an apartment here but whether that is still the case now, given how few engagements she does and that her own home is in London anyway remains to be seen.

KP - William and Catherine, still have their official residence at Apartment 1A (the old home of Princess Margaret) and their staff are based at KP (inc in some of the old apartment used by Diana), Eugenie at Ivy Cottage, Prince & Princess Michael at Apartment 10 (for which they pay rent), The Duke & Duchess of Gloucester's official residence is in The Old Stables (once home to Sir Tommy Lascelles), The Duke & Duchess of Kent at Wren House.

Zara & Peter - homes on Gatcombe Estate. Zara is actually at Aston Farm which was used by her father after his divorce from Anne.

Beatrice - reported to have a house in the Cotswolds.

Eugenie - use of a house in Portugal on the luxury estate Jack works for

Princess Alexandra - Thatched House Lodge in Richmond Park leased on commercial terms from the Crown Estate

William & Catherine - Anmer Hall gifted by the Queen and owned by the Sandringham Estate. Adelaide Lodge leased on commercial terms from the Crown Estate.

Edward & Sophie - Bagshot Park leased on commercial terms from The Crown Estate

Andrew - Royal Lodge leased on commercial terms from The Crown Estate

Thanks for the excellent summing up of where everyone currently lives tommy100.

I thought about who might be located in St James Palace when I was there yesterday.

Part of it had a constant stream of people passing by ... going to St James Park ... and another part had a large group of tourists being spoken to in Spanish, but ...

... the rest was completely empty and quiet, though you can get down to Green Park and an Underground Station through there.

A while back it was reported that Catherine Zeta Jones and Michael Douglas had also taken an apartment at St James Palace.

A couple of my photos from yesterday early afternoon ... the streets were empty just a bit along from the other side that goes to St James Park ... versus this side that has a small alleyway into Green Park.

 

[hereditarytitles]

Thanks a lot Sun Lion for all the excellent pictures!

 

[tommy100]

Its a fascinating building -more so than BP in my opinion. It is less cohesive and more a jumble of buildings really. It is often really quiet as a) most people head to Buckingham Palace and b) you can pass by it on one side where Friary Court is and head either onto the Mall, Pall Mall or St James street without actually taking in its full size along Cleveland Row as Sun Lion did- these are the rooms (seen in Sun Lion's pictures) that make up "York House" where Charles use to live as Prince of Wales before moving in to Clarence House

 

[Sun Lion]

Its a fascinating building -more so than BP in my opinion. It is less cohesive and more a jumble of buildings really. It is often really quiet as a) most people head to Buckingham Palace and b) you can pass by it on one side where Friary Court is and head either onto the Mall, Pall Mall or St James street without actually taking in its full size along Cleveland Row as Sun Lion did- these are the rooms (seen in Sun Lion's pictures) that make up "York House" where Charles use to live as Prince of Wales before moving in to Clarence House

Thanks again tommy100, I didn't know any of that.

I was drawn in by the quietude of the streets around this end, and the sense of a more traditional "Englishness".

Someone was home with the fire going ... freezing cold day ... as smoke was coming out of one of the chimneypots. I loved that.

 

[tommy100]

It is very "old school" London. If you had gone further down Cleveland Row and turned so St James was behind you you would be facing Bridgewater House - the exterior of which was used for both the exterior shots of 'Grantham House' in Downton Abbey and Clarence House in the Crown. The next big town house down is Spencer House, still owned by Diana's family.

 

[Sun Lion]

It is very "old school" London. If you had gone further down Cleveland Row and turned so St James was behind you you would be facing Bridgewater House - the exterior of which was used for both the exterior shots of 'Grantham House' in Downton Abbey and Clarence House in the Crown. The next big town house down is Spencer House, still owned by Diana's family.

Thanks tommy100, I'll keep that in mind if I find myself back in that area ... still have a few more days here.

I think my idea of London has been influenced by the many fine British films that were shown on Australian TV in the fifties and sixties ... and the Children's Film Institute films screened for us at school in those days.

It's been fun to find myself on a Monopoly street too.

So many wonderful buildings still standing despite the WWll bombs.

 

[An Ard Ri]

A nice article on Birkhall in Aberdeenshire.
Monty Don reveals little-known truth about King Charles' very private Birkhall home

 

[SLV]

William & Catherine - Adelaide Lodge leased on commercial terms from the Crown Estate.

Edward & Sophie - Bagshot Park leased on commercial terms from The Crown Estate

Andrew - Royal Lodge leased on commercial terms from The Crown Estate

Does anyone know what those terms are? How much is the rent of eg. Adelaide Lodge?

 

[tommy100]

No, I don't think its been stated. As working royals, they don't necessarily need to pay rent (beyond maybe a "peppercorn") so if they are, as was widely reported, then I suspect it was done to dampen down any criticism or appearance or largesse. A number of reports said permission for them to live there had been granted by the Queen so I suspect that means they may not have a formal lease agreement as such but who knows.

 

[royal-blue]

If Harry and Meghan had still been working royals, they would probably have quite a big role within the family, yet they would probably only have had one residence at Frogmore Cottage. Surely an apartment at Kensington Palace wouldn't have been an unreasonable ask for them? Two residences doesn't seem excessive in their case.

 

[Hallo girl]

If Harry and Meghan had still been working royals, they would probably have quite a big role within the family, yet they would probably only have had one residence at Frogmore Cottage. Surely an apartment at Kensington Palace wouldn't have been an unreasonable ask for them? Two residences doesn't seem excessive in their case.

I thought they had declined KP. Harry said the Late Queen offered different homes but for various reasons were unsuitable,

 

[tommy100]

Yes, they chose not to maintain a London home, all the signs were that Apartment 1 at KP, next door to William and Catherine's apartment, was going to be for them but Harry and Meghan went another way by making their main residence at Frogmore. As I understand it rooms were going to be made available to them at Buckingham Palace when they needed to stay in London overnight.
To be fair, in property terms, Harry and Meghan seemed to be treated better than Edward and Andrew even though they were younger children of a sovereign - they got rooms to use in BP and then had to pay their own commercial rent/lease on a Crown Estate property on / around Windsor. Harry got rooms at BP (though I get the impression it was more a place to sleep rather than a mini apartment as Edward and Andrew seemed to get) and an official residence at Frogmore which was initially paid for from the Sovereign Grant (the Sovereign's official expenditure). Even Anne only has an apartment at St James' Palace and Gatcombe which is a private residence.

 

[Curryong]

The refurbishment of the apartment at KP next to the Cambridges took far too long for the Sussexes to conveniently move in. Meghan became pregnant with Archie very soon after the wedding which I don’t think was expected by the RF or courtiers.

Harry and Meghan had to pay back millions to the Sovereign Grant on the home (Frogmore Cottage) they eventually got that had been granted to them by the late Queen because by then they were living in California. I’m sure that gave many at Court and some royals a great deal of satisfaction.

Moreover, they were evicted from that home even though they had offered to continue paying rent, had paid for many improvements and wanted it for visits to the UK.

And so Frogmore Cottage remains empty still , nearly two years later. I do not believe that Andrew or anyone else was told to move into it, even though Charles certainly wanted Andrew out of Royal Lodge.

 

[Hallo girl]

Accommodation is never rushed within the RF, it always take time.

 

[Curryong]

It’s been two years. There have been inquiries about this property I’m sure, from non royals. [.....]

That house will be two years empty in June, when it could have been sublet by the Sussexes (the Brooksbanks for instance) and rent could have continued to be paid.

 

[muriel]

It’s been two years. There have been inquiries about this property I’m sure, from non royals. [.....]

That house will be two years empty in June, when it could have been sublet by the Sussexes (the Brooksbanks for instance) and rent could have continued to be paid.

The house came with the job. H&M left the job, they lost the house. I do not think there is much more to the story than that.

As to its future use, the property is located within the secure perimeter of Windsor Castle. It cannot be let to just anybody. In time, I am sure a senior courtier may end up there if there is no need for the property by a member of the RF. But if Eugenie or Beatrice wanted it, I am sure a commercial let can be arranged.

 

[Blog Real]

I think that William and Kate when they become king and queen, they will move to Windsor Castle and it could be the main family residence. I believe they will continue to use Kensington Palace as their London residence.
But I also don't believe they will use Clarence House, and perhaps it will be left to Prince George in the future.
Buckingham Palace is expected to remain the royal family's main residence for work and some of the monarchy's major events. But I'm not sure if any other monarch will live there regularly.

 

[Marengo]

Apart from the job they moved continents too, so they have no need of a house in the UK, which most likely be a money pit which would be used a few days per lustrum.

 

[An Ard Ri]

If Charles predeceased Camilla I think Clarence House will be the Dowager Queen's residence and that William and Catherine and family will continue to reside at Kensington Palace but will also use Windsor Castle.
I'm not sure what will become of Balmoral or Sandringham!

 

[muriel]

If Charles predeceased Camilla I think Clarence House will be the Dowager Queen's residence and that William and Catherine and family will continue to reside at Kensington Palace but will also use Windsor Castle.
I'm not sure what will become of Balmoral or Sandringham!

In the scenario you lay out, my guess is Balmoral and Sandringham would continue to be used as they are under KC3: selectively and for limited periods only. KC3 uses Balmoral Castle only for a limited period over the summer holiday, and similarly, Sandringham House for a limited period over Christmas. At other times, KC3 uses Birkhall in Scotland and other properties on the Sandringham estate.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Yes both Balmoral and Sandringham are both steeped in family tradition with summer and Christmas holidays.
Now whether William as king will continue both of those traditions is another matter.
In the past Windsor was also used for the Christmas holidays.
It also makes me think of what will happen to both Birkhall and Highgrove.

 

[muriel]

Yes both Balmoral and Sandringham are both steeped in family tradition with summer and Christmas holidays.
Now whether William as king will continue both of those traditions is another matter.
In the past Windsor was also used for the Christmas holidays.
It also makes me think of what will happen to both Birkhall and Highgrove.

A lot of this depends on when William becomes King, and if Queen Camilla has predeceased the King.

If it is in a decade or so from now, I can see that Highgrove being kept for George as a country home, whilst he is Prince of Wales.

As regards Birkhall, I can see it become the home of W&C and their kids on the Balmoral estate. If Camilla is still around, I can see William letting her use it for the remainder of her lifetime.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The BRF have a lot more residences and Estates than the other Royal Houses and I can see some of them being no longer used as the monarchy is slimmed down over time.

A lot of possible future Royal Residence scenarios!

 

[muriel]

The BRF have a lot more residences and Estates than the other Royal Houses and I can see some of them being no longer used as the monarchy is slimmed down over time.

A lot of possible future Royal Residence scenarios!

I agree. It will be interesting to see how they go about scaling down the property portfolio over time.

 

[hereditarytitles]

I always found it very impressive how many royal residences the British royal family owns. It has a long history, especially in Great Britain. The fact that the current royals continue the tradition of visiting and spending time at various royal residences at certain times of the year will certainly remain the case during Charles and his siblings' lifetimes. They are continuing the old traditions.

On the other hand, it also costs a lot of money. Apart from that, I think it is stressful to change residences every few months. But well, they don't have to take care of anything themselves, there are staff who prepare for their arrival and stay. But that also costs money.
Can that be maintained with William and Kate and their children? Times have changed and the younger generation of royals may have different ideas or be forced to spend less money.

 

[Hallo girl]

I always found it very impressive how many royal residences the British royal family owns. It has a long history, especially in Great Britain. The fact that the current royals continue the tradition of visiting and spending time at various royal residences at certain times of the year will certainly remain the case during Charles and his siblings' lifetimes. They are continuing the old traditions.

On the other hand, it also costs a lot of money. Apart from that, I think it is stressful to change residences every few months. But well, they don't have to take care of anything themselves, there are staff who prepare for their arrival and stay. But that also costs money.
Can that be maintained with William and Kate and their children? Times have changed and the younger generation of royals may have different ideas or be forced to spend less money.

Balmoral and Sandringham will remain in the family ownership but possibly more self sufficient. I always thought KP might revert to a museum or courtier accommodation. I am not so sure now as I don’t think BP will ever be used as a home again. There will always be a use for Clarence House, Highgrove is another matter.

 

[SLV]

I agree. It will be interesting to see how they go about scaling down the property portfolio over time.

I don't think they will. Houses and ground are good solid money investments, unlike the unpredictability of bank accounts and interest-rates.

 

[tommy100]

I don’t think they have that many homes really when compared to some monarchies- here is looking at you Norway!

But yes they have more than they need really especially when you factor in the that there seems likely to be fewer “working royals” to have to home in the future.

I suspect the set up Charles has with Clarence House as home, BP as office and state duties may stick. KP is maybe a bit too far away to easily hop between the two? But maybe not. Either way I can’t see them kicking Camilla out if he becomes King while she is alive. That said I also don’t think Camilla would be that fussed about doing lots of royal duties etc. I can see KP being George’s “official home” until he is King.

The family clearly have a love of Norfolk so I can see them still using Sandringham, in time maybe George having Anmer and W&C moving into the big house when they visit. I do wonder if summer might not move to Sandringham as its closer to the coast and warmer than Scotland but that might be radical for the RF!

I can see Camilla keeping use of Birkhall until her death. Like Charles I see W&C only using the castle for a set piece holiday time with their cousins all together and using Birkhall or Craigowan Lodge the rest of the time- maybe W&C will use Craigowan and George will get use of Birkhall at a later date.

That said William and Catherine seem happy to do things differently so it wouldn't surprise me whatever they do.

 

[PrincessofEurope]

My take on the future residences of King William (when the times comes)

BP - he won't live here. This will be for state functions and engagements

KP - they will use their Apartment here for when they are required to be in London.
I honestly think they made an error here they married in having a London residence as big as KP apartment and the expense to refurb it. They are clearly an outdoor family who thrive in the countryside and London living was not for them

Clarence House - I don't see W or K using this ever. Eventually I see this as a residence for George and family for their London base

Windsor & Adelaide Cottage - I see the family containing to live in Adelaide Cottage for many many years. They thrive on this quiet lifestyle and paired back from how Charles and the late Queen ran the households. I see them using Windsor as they do now for engagements etc but I do not see them living in the apartments as the Castle itself is busy and a tourist attraction. AC offers greater privacy.
I can see Royal Lodge/Frogmore or other houses on the estate being used by the children as they start their own families

Sandringham & AH - Again I see them using AH as the main residence here and allowing the wider family to use Sandringham. They adore AH and spend holidays here a lot, they won't give that up.
Smaller houses round the estate like the one the late DoE used in his last years can be given the children for their future families

Balmoral - Will be used during summer holidays for shorter periods.
I believe they will leave Birkhall for the future family of George

 

[An Ard Ri]

And also makes me think of the future of St James's Palace?