General Discussion about Royal Residences 2: Sep 2022 -

[muriel]

I can see William as king using Birkhall as his Deeside annual holiday home for say a few weeks in the summer but I would imagine him not wanting to spend two months there.

The Highlands of course are beautiful but the weather is very variable to put it mildly.

William might want to spend more of the summer further south at Sandringham or even go abroad somewhere warm & sunny like the med.

On the other hand holidaying abroad does raise issues around security & the government might be unhappy with the monarch being out of the country.

A lot depends on when William becomes King, but I suspect he will spend substantial amounts of time on the Balmoral estate over the summer. I don't think he cares too much about Birkhall, so will either use the main castle or Craigowan Lodge or any of the other properties on the estate, as he does now.

 

[tommy100]

Personally I've always thought the RF's holiday residences are back to front:

Balmoral seems a more Christmasy place to be, snuggled up in a Scottish castle in deep winter, hunkering down together surrounded by pine trees and forests.

Sandringham is close to beaches which seems like a perfect place to spend the summer.

But then again the RF places huge importance on tradition and the past so it that sense it makes perfect sense. And I suspect Balmoral might just be a bit too remote in winter - maybe a security issue if the RF get snowed in.

I think Scotland is quite close to W&Cs heart - it is where they met and they spent weekends on the Estate as a couple. I read somewhere that William wasn't all that keen for Balmoral to be opened to the public as it was this summer so maybe he is more in love with it than we know. Plus Catherine's family has Scottish connections - her brother in law owns a Scottish residence which her brother works at often. I think they'll use Balmoral but maybe not quite in the same was at the late Queen did and I agree, William is perhaps less fussed about Birkhall. I do hope though he has the foresight to ensure George has a residence at both Balmoral and Sandringham at some point in his future to help him have a deep connection to the estates.

 

[muriel]

Personally I've always thought the RF's holiday residences are back to front:

Balmoral seems a more Christmasy place to be, snuggled up in a Scottish castle in deep winter, hunkering down together surrounded by pine trees and forests.

Sandringham is close to beaches which seems like a perfect place to spend the summer.

But then again the RF places huge importance on tradition and the past so it that sense it makes perfect sense. And I suspect Balmoral might just be a bit too remote in winter - maybe a security issue if the RF get snowed in.

I think Scotland is quite close to W&Cs heart - it is where they met and they spent weekends on the Estate as a couple. I read somewhere that William wasn't all that keen for Balmoral to be opened to the public as it was this summer so maybe he is more in love with it than we know. Plus Catherine's family has Scottish connections - her brother in law owns a Scottish residence which her brother works at often. I think they'll use Balmoral but maybe not quite in the same was at the late Queen did and I agree, William is perhaps less fussed about Birkhall. I do hope though he has the foresight to ensure George has a residence at both Balmoral and Sandringham at some point in his future to help him have a deep connection to the estates.

I am not sure I agree, its not about tradition IMO. Balmoral and the hills around it must be a great place to spend the summer months. Far too cold in winter months, IMO.

I have no doubt the Sandringham estate gets used in the warmer months as well by other members of the family other than the Wales family. C&C usually host a weekend for the people from the Arts. There may be many other times the house is used, but is not known by the public.

 

[Somebody]

On the other hand holidaying abroad does raise issues around security & the government might be unhappy with the monarch being out of the country.

All other European monarchs manage to spend several weeks abroad in the summer, so I don't see why the British monarch wouldn't be able to - although it might be a bit easier if they have their own holiday home as some but not all of them do.

 

[tommy100]

I can see it changing over time but I suspect, for now at least, the British public is used to the ways of QE2. Whilst Balmoral is of course - a Castle with staff and every need catered for - I think the public see it as more modest to 'staycation' in Scotland rather than jetting off to the South of France or some Greek island. The BRF are good at making old money luxury look quite modest IMO.

 

[muriel]

All other European monarchs manage to spend several weeks abroad in the summer, so I don't see why the British monarch wouldn't be able to - although it might be a bit easier if they have their own holiday home as some but not all of them do.

I have no issue with members of the BRF having discrete holidays abroad.

In truth, King Charles does have his quiet break in Transylvania from time to time. Queen Camilla also has a summer sun holiday with her family. She also visits an ayurvedic spa in India most years. The Wales family also holidays abroad from time to time, we just tend not to know about it. From a Christmas picture a few years we found out that the then Cambridge family had been on holiday in Jordan.

 

[Somebody]

Exactly, so I see no reason why they cannot continue doing so when William is king. There is no need to spend all of their holidays at the various estates the family owns in the UK - although tradition might ‘demand’ they spend some time at each each year.

 

[royal-blue]

If William was to unexpected become King in the next few years, while his children are still young, would he and Kate be likely to vacate all 3 of their current residences and move to more regal homes?

 

[JR76]

If William was to unexpected become King in the next few years, while his children are still young, would he and Kate be likely to vacate all 3 of their current residences and move to more regal homes?

If they wanted too. I can see them staying put at Adelaide cottage and work at Windsor castle and Buckingham palace. Alternatively I could see them move into Windsor castle. For reasons like them not wanting to uproot their children from friends and schools and wanting to raise them in the country I doubt that they'd return to Kensington palace or move into Buckingham palace.
I'd even dare speculate that no monarch will ever again live at the palace.

 

[tommy100]

Hmm interesting question.

I wonder if KP isn't too far away from Buckingham Palace for it to be likely for it to be logistically possible for William as King to commute from one to the other most days - outriders etc. Clarence House would make more sense if they don't want to live "above the shop" but maybe Camilla would still be there/have use of it.

Adelaide Cottage is of course very small, we know that. I guess they could still live there, there would be no immediate need to move out as it seems pretty secure, within the Windsor Castle security cordon etc. I suppose they'd also have use of Windsor Castle so could travel "up the hill" when they need to use anything more "regal". Windsor Castle is quite open in terms of public access which again may put them off moving in there with the kids.

With Anmer there would be no immediate need to move out. TBH I imagine they could still use Anmer and then open Sandringham at Christmas for the traditional family gathering - maybe even staying at Anmer and just allowing the family to use the main house.

I guess part of it depends on how wedded they are to their residences - Adelaide is the newest so in some ways they may have the least ties to it and be more willing to move out to Windsor Castle itself (I mean practically Royal Lodge or Frogmore would be more private for a family). Anmer was one of their first homes - a wedding gift - so I'd suspect they have stronger ties to it. But maybe they'd be happy to move in to the "Big House". They don't seem that tied to their KP apartment - they've happily not used it for some time now since moving to Windsor but then again they may feel its the best, most private, most emotive/connected for them London residence.

I don't think they'll make their main home in London, Windsor is more likely IMO. The question is just which residence - if they could secure some more privacy then the Castle itself might be logistically easier.

 

[royal-blue]

*meant unexpectedly

 

[muriel]

Hmm interesting question.

I wonder if KP isn't too far away from Buckingham Palace for it to be likely for it to be logistically possible for William as King to commute from one to the other most days - outriders etc. Clarence House would make more sense if they don't want to live "above the shop" but maybe Camilla would still be there/have use of it.

Adelaide Cottage is of course very small, we know that. I guess they could still live there, there would be no immediate need to move out as it seems pretty secure, within the Windsor Castle security cordon etc. I suppose they'd also have use of Windsor Castle so could travel "up the hill" when they need to use anything more "regal". Windsor Castle is quite open in terms of public access which again may put them off moving in there with the kids.

With Anmer there would be no immediate need to move out. TBH I imagine they could still use Anmer and then open Sandringham at Christmas for the traditional family gathering - maybe even staying at Anmer and just allowing the family to use the main house.

I guess part of it depends on how wedded they are to their residences - Adelaide is the newest so in some ways they may have the least ties to it and be more willing to move out to Windsor Castle itself (I mean practically Royal Lodge or Frogmore would be more private for a family). Anmer was one of their first homes - a wedding gift - so I'd suspect they have stronger ties to it. But maybe they'd be happy to move in to the "Big House". They don't seem that tied to their KP apartment - they've happily not used it for some time now since moving to Windsor but then again they may feel its the best, most private, most emotive/connected for them London residence.

I don't think they'll make their main home in London, Windsor is more likely IMO. The question is just which residence - if they could secure some more privacy then the Castle itself might be logistically easier.

Here are my thoughts on what might happen to homes for the Wales family if William were to become King in the next 5 years or so.

> BP remains the "shop". They may choose to move there if they can carve out a nice family apartment there, else, they will hold onto KP1, which will continue to be their London home.

> Clarence House: I do not believe William will use Clarence House. It could continue to be used by Camilla, and in time, George could probably take it over.

> Windsor Castle becomes their main home. The family move in there. No changes to schooling as a result of the move.

> Adelaide Cottage: No longer to be used by William & family. Perhaps Andrew might want to take it on.

> Anmer: Remains their main home on the Sandringham estate, they appear to love it. The main house will be opened up a few times a year, but that is about it.

> Balmoral: As is currently the case, will be used for a limited period by the family over the summer, but be open to the public for the rest of the year

> Birkhall: Tricky. Camilla probably loves it, but William will probably want the house for his family. Perhaps he will let Camilla keep it for the rest of her time, and William will end up using Craigowan Logge or another building on the estate.

 

[Royalty Observer]

I do not believe that much will change with the residences for Charles and Camilla so looking a bit further along, in regards to the Wales family I believe that there will be something along these lines:
There will be 4 groups of housing that will need to be put in place (W&C, George, Charlotte, Louis).
Each of them will have one London base, one Windsor base and one vacation place.
- For W&C - BP work related, KP for private family time in London, Windsor castle in Windsor, Anmer for Holiday
- For George - CH in London, Frogmore in Windsor, something similar to Anmer for Holiday
- For Charlotte - apartment or cotage at KP in London, Royal Lodge in Windsor, something similar to Anmer for Holiday
- For Louis- apartment or cotage at KP in London, Adelaide Cottage in windsor, something similar to Anmer for Holiday

 

[tommy100]

I suspect, in time, George would be given residences at Balmoral and Sandringham just as William did. It makes sense to give the heir a place and interest in the estate they will one day inherit.

I do think Birkhall might have an interesting future. I agree William would probably let Camilla stay for the rest of her lifetime - I think Birkhall is the closest thing they have to a marital home in many ways. But long term it makes sense to use it rather like Charles does - Balmoral for the main summer holidays and Birkhall for private family trips up. Longer term William could use it outside of the summer break for him and Catherine and their by then older children to visit.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The Bowes-Lyon family had a residence at Grosvenor Gardens House in Westminster, London but I'm not sure if they owned it or just rented it?

 

[SirGyamfi1]

The Bowes-Lyon family had a residence at Grosvenor Gardens House in Westminster, London but I'm not sure if they owned it or just rented it?

It was probably leased. I’m not sure about Grosvenor gardens, but they definitely had use of a home in Mayfair but that house was bombed

 

[Sun Lion]

I walked past Frogmore Cottage the other day and realised I don't blame Harry and Meghan for choosing a different life for themselves in California.

As a tourist it is all very interesting and engaging, but to live a day to day life there, well it struck me that it would be pretty dull, even boring.

London is so big, varied, lively, so many options and possibilities. Frogmore Cottage looked so isolated from life. I think they would have found it a mistake as time went on, if they chose this over something in the city.

I was the only person taking photos. Lots of people around me, but no-one even looking across to the house, so no real problem with privacy.

Here are a few of my photos, normal range and zoomed in.

 

[FigTree]

I walked past Frogmore Cottage the other day and realised I don't blame Harry and Meghan for choosing a different life for themselves in California.

As a tourist it is all very interesting and engaging, but to live a day to day life there, well it struck me that it would be pretty dull, even boring.

London is so big, varied, lively, so many options and possibilities. Frogmore Cottage looked so isolated from life. I think they would have found it a mistake as time went on, if they chose this over something in the city.

I was the only person taking photos. Lots of people around me, but no-one even looking across to the house, so no real problem with privacy.

Here are a few of my photos, normal range and zoomed in.


View attachment 304493View attachment 304495View attachment 304498

That was their choice. And Windsor is London really. I actually saw the house on an open day for Frogmore House. The estate is beautiful. The house stunning.

 

[muriel]

I walked past Frogmore Cottage the other day and realised I don't blame Harry and Meghan for choosing a different life for themselves in California.

As a tourist it is all very interesting and engaging, but to live a day to day life there, well it struck me that it would be pretty dull, even boring.

London is so big, varied, lively, so many options and possibilities. Frogmore Cottage looked so isolated from life. I think they would have found it a mistake as time went on, if they chose this over something in the city.

I was the only person taking photos. Lots of people around me, but no-one even looking across to the house, so no real problem with privacy.

Here are a few of my photos, normal range and zoomed in.


View attachment 304493View attachment 304495View attachment 304498

H&M were in residence in Frogmore Cottage for around 6 months, having moved in just before Archie was born in May 2019, and they left before the end of the year. If the choice to exit royal life and move to California was indeed based on 6 months in the property they chose (having turned down the offer of a large apartment at KP), it tells a lot of their decision making.

 

[Sun Lion]

I'm sure it had a lot of pluses FigTree, muriel

... but seeing it made me think it looked like a very limited lifestyle.

I don't think they left Royal life because of Frogmore, but I do think such a location would be dull for most youngish people.

Yes, they had the chance to live in a much more vibrant place ... London ... and all the stimulation it offers.

I wouldn't have made that choice to move to Windsor at that stage of life, and now having seen it, it surprises me a little that they did.

 

[muriel]

I'm sure it had a lot of pluses FigTree, muriel

... but seeing it made me think it looked like a very limited lifestyle.

I don't think they left Royal life because of Frogmore, but I do think such a location would be dull for most youngish people.

Yes, they had the chance to live in a much more vibrant place ... London ... and all the stimulation it offers.

I wouldn't have made that choice to move to Windsor at that stage of life, and now having seen it, it surprises me a little that they did.

A lot of choices made by Harry & Meghan have left us all surprised, so Frogmore Cottage is very much in the mould! If they so chose, I am sure a home in London could also have been arranged for them.

 

[hereditarytitles]

Weren't they offered an apartment in Kensington Palace, but didn't want it?
There were also rumours that they had been looking for a house in the Cotswolds, where lots of rich and famous people have a second home. I can imagine that England in winter can look damp and dark, but in spring and summer the countryside is so beautiful!
As an American Meghan having been raised in sunny California she probably missed the warm weather and the easy going lifestyle.

 

[FigTree]

They were and it would have been possible. They were about to become parents and entering a different part of life. Windsor is very close to London and the options of all that offers. Nothing like Amner Hall, which is extremely isolated. To be honest they appear to love quite an isolated life now. Just staying at home.

 

[tommy100]

It was widely speculated they were offered Apartment 1 at KP, which is next door to the now Wales' and was home of the Gloucesters. The Gloucesters moved out in 2019 and into a smaller residence in the Old Stables, also at KP. Whether the two (them moving out and H&M being offered it) were two completely separate things or not know one really knows. But Apartment 1 is still empty even now and the Gloucester's weren't paying any rent beyond a "peppercorn" so the question of why they moved out still remains.

 

[Blog Real]

Do the Prince and Princess of Wales still have an apartment in Kensington Palace?

Where do Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie live?

 

[FigTree]

Do the Prince and Princess of Wales still have an apartment in Kensington Palace?

Where do Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie live?

Yes. Their offices run from there and the living apartment too.

Beatrice: St James and widely reported to have a private home in Cotswolds.

Eugenie: Her three bed she got in Kensington when they married. Name escapes me. Also place in Portugal because of his work. Spent sometime with parents during Covid and then rented Frogmore Cottage from Harry and Meghan and there about a year.

Peter and Zara both live on Gatscombe. Believe me they are all well taken care off.

 

[tommy100]

Yes they still have Apartment 1A. How much it gets used is up for debate for sure but they also use office space at KP for their staff.

Beatrice has use of an apartment in St James Palace and its reported her and Edo have their own residence in the Cotswolds. Eugenie and Jack have use of Ivy Cottage, part of the KP complex as well as living some of the time in Portugal.

 

[FigTree]

It was widely speculated they were offered Apartment 1 at KP, which is next door to the now Wales' and was home of the Gloucesters. The Gloucesters moved out in 2019 and into a smaller residence in the Old Stables, also at KP. Whether the two (them moving out and H&M being offered it) were two completely separate things or not know one really knows. But Apartment 1 is still empty even now and the Gloucester's weren't paying any rent beyond a "peppercorn" so the question of why they moved out still remains.

I think the two things probably coincided. They were looking to downsize and they were looking to offer Harry and Meghan a place too.

 

[tommy100]

Most likely. Otherwise I suspect the Gloucester's wouldn't have moved out, as they did so (if I recall rightly) after H&M had been offered Frogmore so could have remained if using it more H&M was the main reason.

Recap of Royal residences:

BP - no one currently due to refurbishment. Offices for Charles and Camilla's staff and the wider Royal Household

Clarence House - where Charles and Camilla live and do some duties from while in London

St James - offices for Anne and Edward & Sophie and their staff as well as numerous parts of the wider Royal Household, e.g. the Chancellor of Honours. Anne also has her residence here (and has done for decades), Edward and Sophie moved their London residence (and office) here due to the BP refurbishments. Beatrice also has an apartment in the complex. Princess Alexandra also had an apartment here but whether that is still the case now, given how few engagements she does and that her own home is in London anyway remains to be seen.

KP - William and Catherine, still have their official residence at Apartment 1A (the old home of Princess Margaret) and their staff are based at KP (inc in some of the old apartment used by Diana), Eugenie at Ivy Cottage, Prince & Princess Michael at Apartment 10 (for which they pay rent), The Duke & Duchess of Gloucester's official residence is in The Old Stables (once home to Sir Tommy Lascelles), The Duke & Duchess of Kent at Wren House.

Zara & Peter - homes on Gatcombe Estate. Zara is actually at Aston Farm which was used by her father after his divorce from Anne.

Beatrice - reported to have a house in the Cotswolds.

Eugenie - use of a house in Portugal on the luxury estate Jack works for

Princess Alexandra - Thatched House Lodge in Richmond Park leased on commercial terms from the Crown Estate

William & Catherine - Anmer Hall gifted by the Queen and owned by the Sandringham Estate. Adelaide Lodge leased on commercial terms from the Crown Estate.

Edward & Sophie - Bagshot Park leased on commercial terms from The Crown Estate

Andrew - Royal Lodge leased on commercial terms from The Crown Estate

 

[tommy100]

Sorry should be Central Chancery not Chancellor