Engagement of Prince Felipe and Letizia Ortiz: November 1, 2003

[Dennism]

Sounds like a rush job to me. Anyway, I can understand the problem with Eve. I don't agree with that but still.

"Isabel Sartorius"

Yeah, her. I mean Sophia must be getting a little flexible in her older age(Still looking great too). 4 months isn't a long time and even so it's not like they could have had too many dates after alll he does keep a busy schedule and so did she. Considering the circumstances, this is like Dharma and Greg Montgomery.

 

[Dennism]

From Hello:

3 NOVEMBER 2003
Crown Prince Felipe has taken the people of Spain by surprise by announcing his engagement to a glamorous newsreader. The handsome 35-year-old will marry Letizia Ortiz Rocasolano, who presents the nine o'clock news on Spanish television, in Madrid's Almudena Cathedral next summer.

Felipe is expected to formally propose to the 31-year-old divorcee in the Zarzuela Palace on Thursday. Their engagement has been welcomed by the Spanish public, who have long been hoping for their popular prince to marry and start a family. Letizia has been described as "a perfect contemporary queen of the 21st century".

The couple are said to have met for the first time at a mutual friend's home in September 2002. They began dating four months ago, but managed to keep their courtship under wraps until now.

Even the bride's father has admitted to being a little surprised by the happy news. "She suddenly told me recently that she had met someone," revealed the Crown Prince's future father-in-law. "Then she said it was getting serious and now this."

The future queen is already well-known to the Spanish public, thanks to her high-profile job. "She is a typical 21st century young woman," said a spokesman for the royal family. "She is independent, serious and responsible and she knows where she is going."

 

[Ms Hairy Legs]

I wonder if Letizia's been knocked up by the Prince? WHy else would it all be so sudden?

Btw, what is Queen Sophia's geneology that she can look down on others or be such a snob? No offence but Spain is hardly a heavyweight in the world of politics or economics or international affairs. There's really no basis to be snooty.

 

[Dennism]

Spain could be a bigger weight if all of the Hispanics paid more attention to Spain. I recall a speech by Juan Carlos a couple of years ago where he scolded Hispanics in the New World for not maintaining the cultural links to Spain. Or for forgetting their Spanish heritage. Sophia is as good as it gets when it comes to behavior as a representative for Spain. However, the fact that this poor guy has had two girlfriends who were more or less rejected by his mother and the public does not bode well for her image. Remember they have only been going out for 4 months. And remember that they don't exactly live non-busy lives.

 

[Sean.~]

Originally posted by Ms Hairy Legs@Nov 4th, 2003 - 5:15 am
I wonder if Letizia's been knocked up by the Prince? WHy else would it all be so sudden?

Btw, what is Queen Sophia's geneology that she can look down on others or be such a snob? No offence but Spain is hardly a heavyweight in the world of politics or economics or international affairs. There's really no basis to be snooty.

If she were knocked-up, as you put it, one would assume that the wedding would take place before the Spring of 2004, which is quite a ways away & thus not sudden at all.

Rather than being sudden, I think that they simply managed to keep it a secret. Good for them, as hitherto their relationship has been a private affair. The rest of their lives togther will be public &, therefore, I'm glad that they at least had a few private months together to get to know each other without intense media pressure.

Who said Queen Sofia is snooty? And Spain is one of the largest countries in Europe and it is, in fact, quite important. Not only is it the 'metropolis' for many Latin American countries, but it is Europe's 5th largest economy. Indeed, the country has made great strides over the last 3 decades and has developed exponentially. Due to it's size, it's importance will only continue to grow. Moreover, by aligning itself with the US (not a policy I agree with, mind you), it has gained more influence in international affairs.

With respect to Queen Sophia's lineage, well she is the royal to the bone. She is descendant from the Kings. of Greece, Denmark, Britain, Hanover, and the Emperors of Russia and Germany.


S.

 

[Ms Hairy Legs]

Who said Queen Sofia is snooty?

I did - due to the previous posts stating that she was quite adamnant about Felipe's wife being a Royal and the claim that she looked down on Diana for being a mere Earl's daughter.

 

[Lena]

They are looking really cute together, and as if they would be very much in love. But he´s indeed very tall in comparison with her. I wonder if they use a footstool (maybe a golden one), when they kiss each other

 

[Dennism]

Well, Sean is right there about Spain anyway. 3 decades means nothing. Spain has been an important country for 1,400 years. Several hundreds of those under Moorish rule. And before then the Romans were very keen on Spain as well.

"Spring of 2004, which is quite a ways away & thus not sudden at all."

This is what I was thinking. A long engagement period would be good then. However, it's still a short dating period. Good grief. I hope Aznar and the rest of the them don't think that by aligning with the US they will hope to gain stature in the world. It's hasn't helped out Great Britain at all! Just a little joke there.

 

[Dennism]

The golden footstool. But like any wise man, he would kneel in her presence to kiss her. And count his blessings.

 

[paulette]

Regarding the comparison of Mary Elizabeth Donaldson to Letizia Ortiz Rocasolano, I think they should not be compared in that manner. I understand we have our own choices but for the fact that both of them are unique. They excel in various fields. Mary may not be that cheerful to see compared to Letizia, but she has other talents that can make her be loved more by the people. Letecia may have some personalities that Mary doesn't have but it doen't mean already that Mary isn't qualified to be a future queen. One is not needed to be very beautiful and very smart to be able to marry a prince or princess. It needs ones determination and hardwork to be able to cope up with expectations and to really show that he / she is not just marrying a royal for a title but because of willingness and love.

That's why we are born unique so that we would be able to share what we have to the world. When all women and man are good looking then we can't say who is less handsome or beautiful. Those 2 ladies are completely different, they are just the same in terms of marrying a Crown Prince and they would face such an important challenge.

I just hope that both the engaged princes Felipe and Frederick would love truly those ladies and always attend their tasks as their nations future Kings. I also hope that Mary and Letizia are not just marrying them for an important title but because of love and they would hopefully do their tasks well.

Good luck to both of them! Such a nice and sweet couple..

 

[Alexandria]

As always, very well said, Paulette. Mary and Letizia are two different in their own rights, who will bring their seperate education backgrounds and life experiences to their roles as Crown Princesses.

Not only are they each marrying two men who are different in personalities, they are also marrying men who will one day rule two different countries who have different expectations of their royal families.

So, unless someone can show me IQ tests from each of these ladies, I think the discussion about which person and which occupation is smarter will cease.

 

[thissal]

Letizia is so cool, precise and polished. I kinda miss seeing pictures of bumbling Mary.

 

[Rachel72550]

Originally posted by royal_sophietje@Nov 1st, 2003 - 3:38 pm
It's a bit of suprise for me. I hope it is true love and that they will be happy


But it's so...unexpected....

I think it's true. It would have been denied by now if it were not! I hope this young woman is as gorgeous IRL as she is on the internet.

With my best wishes to both of them ~ Can't wait til the wedding!!

Rachel

 

[Julia]

Originally posted by thissal@Nov 4th, 2003 - 9:05 am
Letizia is so cool, precise and polished.  I kinda miss seeing pictures of bumbling Mary.

I don't mean to be the "board mom" (okay, maybe I do, in fact) but I would like to request that we all try to not bash Mary Donaldson or Letizia Oritz. While Letizia is very cool and polished looking I wouldn't call Mary "bumbling", either.

Thank you.

 

[Sean.~]

Originally posted by Ms Hairy Legs@Nov 4th, 2003 - 6:46 am

Who said Queen Sofia is snooty?

I did - due to the previous posts stating that she was quite adamnant about Felipe's wife being a Royal and the claim that she looked down on Diana for being a mere Earl's daughter.

Well we don't know if that is true. It doesn't look as if she looks down on MC who are married her own nephew), Maxima, Mathilde, etc. She also has commoner son-in-laws. The fact of the matter is that the King and Queen were very good friends of the late Princess of Wales. If she did look down on Diana, it could have been for other reasons -- such as her *perceived* lack of discretion, etc.)-- and only later in the latter's life.

As far as her wanting her son to marry a royal, well Spain used to have a law on the books that states that heir has to marry a Princess. There has been much speculation over the years as to whether this law is still, in fact, in effect. Evidently it isn't. The Queen of Spain may have also wanted to avoid the kind of situations that arose in the House of Windsor with Diana and Sarah. One must keep in mind that, historically, the monarchy and politics in Spain have been much more volatile than in many of the other European countries. Moreover, not only are the country's elites more conservative, but during the Diana heyday years in the late 1980s, the Spanish monarchy had only been restored for a little over a decade, after decades of dictatorship. Scandals and tabloid press attention on the scale of the House of Windsor could have proved detrimental to the legitimacy of the monarchy as a unifying force. As it was, there was already an attempted coup in 1981. Thus perhaps the King and Queen recognized that it was necessary for the heir to choose his bride very, very carefully. That being said, I have copies of interviews with the Queen Spain and she specifically states that she doesn't expect her children to marry royals. Her children, too, have told authors that none of them were interested in Royal marriages (presumably the parents were well aware of this and they obviously consented).

In short, it seems to me that, if anything, the Queen was concerned about suitability (rather than a royal background per se) due to Spain's conservative society and out of concern for building (and not eroding)the monarchy's legitimacy.

 

[Sean.~]

This is what I was thinking. A long engagement period would be good then. However, it's still a short dating period. Good grief. I hope Aznar and the rest of the them don't think that by aligning with the US they will hope to gain stature in the world. It's hasn't helped out Great Britain at all! Just a little joke there.

I didn't quite mean it like that. It is more of a balance of power thing. By aligning themselves with the US, the world's only superpower, they have more clout in the EU, where France and Germany will dominate. Anyway, I don't think they expected for things to go this bad. Don't get me started on the war, though. I could go on for days. Suffice to say I was and am against the whole thing.

 

[angel]

Letizia must be really smart.She dated her husband 10 years before the marriage which only lasted 1 year.

 

[A.C.C.]

On the side of Felipe, there aren't as many princesses in Europe to marry as there were during his father's time. On the other hand, I get the feeling that these royals all over Europe think that marrying a member of their "elk" is some sort of bad thing. But like I said before, most of the princesses of Europe are too young for Felipe. They are, on the other hand, the perfect ages for William, and I won't be surprised if there is some hinting from the Windsors for William to marry someone in the area of Madeline or Theodora of Greece.

 

[Sean.~]

Originally posted by A.C.C.@Nov 4th, 2003 - 1:02 pm
On the side of Felipe, there aren't as many princesses in Europe to marry as there were during his father's time. On the other hand, I get the feeling that these royals all over Europe think that marrying a member of their "elk" is some sort of bad thing. But like I said before, most of the princesses of Europe are too young for Felipe. They are, on the other hand, the perfect ages for William, and I won't be surprised if there is some hinting from the Windsors for William to marry someone in the area of Madeline or Theodora of Greece.

There are/were several suitable candidates among the various German and former ruling houses of Europe. The European magazines would often put forth lists of "candidates".

As far as Madeliene of Sweden is concerned, it is doubtful that she will become interested in William. She's already living with a boyfriend. Besides, even she couldn't handle the press attention in London when she was studying there and consequently returned back to Sweden. Additionally, and perhaps most importantly, it is highly doubtful that the King of Sweden would ever even entertain the notion of his daughter marrying into the scandal ridden House of Windsor. The two families are not close.



Sean.

 

[thissal]

Originally posted by Julia@Nov 4th, 2003 - 8:20 am
I don't mean to be the "board mom" (okay, maybe I do, in fact) but I would like to request that we all try to not bash Mary Donaldson or Letizia Oritz. While Letizia is very cool and polished looking I wouldn't call Mary "bumbling", either.

Thank you.

Excuse me? This board is where I was first shocked to see all the bashing against Mary take place. I never supported this mean and unjustified attitude against Mary, and I don't appreciate being chastised for something I haven't indulged in when just about everyone else on this board had carte blanche to attack Mary. It you want to play "board mom" then make an effort to be fair.

Thank You.

 

[mgrant]

I have been enjoying all of this discussion and all of the comments about this engagement. She is definitely attractive and he's just as good looking. Since it appears that she has an news anchor job, she must be intelligent. Whatever her title will be, she will be a smart, lovely, media savvy royal.

More power to the both of them!

 

[A.C.C.]

I was saying in general. I didn't mean Madeline was the one that William was going to marry. And I don't think too many Kings and Queens in Europe would be upset if their children married into the House of Windsor. In the scheme of things, the family from which the girl is from would recieve a lot more clout world wide because she is the queen or future queen of England. But this is off subject. You are right about the Felipe marrying princess from non-ruling houses. I was referring to the ruling houses of Europe.

 

[Julia]

In trying to be fair I am simply asking that we not do anymore bashing.

 

[Dennism]

There are a good number of princesses. Maybe not from the bigger houses but it it wise for the Spaniards or the Swedes to avoid the House of Windsor(Make the House of Atreus seem normal). Anyway, right about the war and perhaps right about Spain gaining a strong foothold in the EU. But I am in agreement with Sean on this.

 

[Sean.~]

Originally posted by A.C.C.@Nov 4th, 2003 - 2:28 pm
I was saying in general. I didn't mean Madeline was the one that William was going to marry. And I don't think too many Kings and Queens in Europe would be upset if their children married into the House of Windsor. In the scheme of things, the family from which the girl is from would recieve a lot more clout world wide because she is the queen or future queen of England. But this is off subject. You are right about the Felipe marrying princess from non-ruling houses. I was referring to the ruling houses of Europe.

Allegedly the Swedish royal family does not hold the British royal family in high esteem. And I don't agree with your assertion either. Rather than clout, the family of any potential bride will be subjected to the intrusive and awful British tabloid press (as the Spencers and Fergusons were). No respectable royal house would want that their skeletons being exposed in such a manner.

Anyway, the notion of equal marriages are, for the most part, an anacrhonism in today's world.

 

[A.C.C.]

So you are saying it's wrong for a prince to marry a princess in her own right or rather that that type of marriage doesn't fit in with today's society? That doesn't really make since. If Felipe had married a princess, that would have been an anachronism? If there was an eligible British princess, or rather any other European princess in a ruling house, I'm sure HM Queen Sofia would have preferred Felipe to marry that girl other than the woman he is going to marry (there nothing wrong with the woman he is going to marry by the way).

 

[Sean.~]

Kindly don't put words in my mouth. What I wrote was that the notion of equal marriages is , for the most part, an anacrhonism in today's world. That is, equal/dynastic marriages were made for political and legitimacy reasons. This is no longer necessary in today's world. Not only has the institution of monarchy evolved and changed in most countries, but the world is now more international. Rather than cementing bilateral relations and institutions through marriage, states now aim for internationalism through trade agreements & international conventions and principles. Thus my statement was a general statement based on the realities of today's world. Felipe or any other prince can marry whomever they want.

Moreover, whereas previously in some countries only the daughters of a small pool of elites had the qualifications to become the wives of powerful men, today's world there are many highly educated, capable, and competent women from all socio-economic backgrounds. The role of consort too has changed. I daresay women like Queen Silvia, Queen Noor, Princess Maxima, etc. are more suited to be a Queen in today's world than many royal women of yesteryear. In fact, many 'royal' women were disasterous consorts (Alexandra Feodorovna comes immediately to mind).

If there was an eligible British princess, or rather any other European princess in a ruling house, I'm sure HM Queen Sofia would have preferred Felipe to marry that girl other than the woman he is going to marry (there nothing wrong with the woman he is going to marry by the way).

How do you know that would have been her preference? Did she tell you that? In fact, she's stated otherwise on more than one ocassion, as have her children. I hardly think that Her Majesty is a liar. Sure, she wants her son to marry a suitable woman, but his happiness is no doubt also a factor. As far as eligble Princesses go, there have been several from reigning (they don't rule any more, I'm sorry to say), and non-reingning houses. The Spanish royals have married into non-reigning houses in the past, so I doubt that this would have been an impediment if the King and Queen were adamant on a 'royal' marriage.

Finally, I highly doubt that the King and Queen would have wanted a British Princes as their daughter-in-law. Not only would she have had to convert to Catholicism, but it would have been politically undesirable due to the Gibraltar situation. After all, there was just another diplomatic strain over this very issue the other day. Besides, I doubt very much that the Spanish royals (and government) would want the kind of tabloid press attention that comes with being related to the Windsors.

 

[Dennism]

Yes, I don't understand the need to have someone of a Royal heritage per se. There are plenty of fine noble women. And that is still true of the British press, Diana, for example, used them when she wanted to as well. But they are generally not worth talking about.

 

[hrhcp]

Alexandria  Posted: Nov 3rd, 2003 - 8:47 pm

MARGARITA DE BORBÓN KING JUAN CARLOS SISTER STATED: ´WE FOUND OUT THE ENGAGEMENT LIKE EVERYBODY'

Madrid: The news was not expected not only for the people of Spain but for members of the royal family.´ But Dona Margarita and her husband Doctor Zurita were very pleased ....

Interesting that even Felipe's own aunt was as in the dark about all this as the rest of the country and royal watchers!

Maybe Felipe knows who the blabbermouths are !?

 

[hrhcp]

Interesting comments by Sean.~ about the fact that neither the Swedish RF nor the Spanish RF holding the English RF in high regard !!!!

Despite the fact that the Swedes have a lot of large formal commercial alliances together with the English, and the fact that both Sweden and England (together with Denmark) still have their own currency, and not the Euro.

Despite the fact that the Spaniards - I would say here loosely speaking - have as large of an overseas 'commonwealth' as the english, which drives their economy.

I'm a bit of a train fan, and that is one thing that amazes me, is that the Spaniards are far more dynamic in building new infrastructure and highspeed rail/trains than the laggardly English. Yepp ... with highspeed trains, I would say the dynamism of Spain is on par with the French who started the rage way back when. The Spaniards have even managed to sell their concept of well cornering train (Talgo) to the Americans, which - as many have found out at their cost - is a tough nut to crack. This Talgo train, by the way, is run by Amtrak between Seattle, WA (Portland, OR?) and Vancouver, BC.