Duties and Roles of Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie 2: Discussion Sep 2022 -

[duke of poliganc]

It was reported in 1992, after the first meeting of the now defunct Way Ahead Group meeting that Charles wanted a slimmed down royal family, including the idea that Charles wanted to strip the York princesses of their HRH Princess styles - limiting HRH Prince/Princess to the children of the heir apparent in each generation only. The Queen stopped that.

It was also reported that Beatrice asked her grandmother, uncle and cousin whether she would be wanted/needed as a working royal at least 4 times during her education (at the times she needed to make choices about what to study) and each time she was told she would be similar to Princess Alexandra. However shortly after she graduated from university (college in the UK is not the same thing and can, in fact, be a high school e.g. Eton is a College but there are also post school colleges that largely deal with technical and trade education - to refer to university as a college is insulting to that institution in the UK's education system) she was told she wasn't going to be wanted or needed. That was a few weeks after William and Catherine married. She has since added additional training courses, that she would have done if Elizabeth II, Charles III and William had been honest with her in the first place (my sources for this come from personal contacts as well as what was reported in the media and the so-called 'royal experts'.

Eugenie was told right through her education she needed to plan for a career as she wasn't going to be wanted or needed.

I do agree that this is more likely what happened as even the term working royal started to appear only in the early 2010’s which would make it likely that Beatrice was told that she was not needed after she finished her education which she did in 2011

 

[Iluvbertie]

So, what specific courses did she take up in preparation to work for the firm? And what would she have done otherwise?

A-levels in in Drama, History and Film Studies; except for History, don't suggest a thorough preparation for a royal role. Her university studies in 'History and History of Ideas' seem a slightly better fit. Although given that the future king decided to study Geography after A-levels in geography, history of art and biology, the royal family doesn't seem to be that particular about anybody's choice of major/subjects. The university studies chosen by continental future monarchs are much more clearly related to their future job.

The work for the firm she just needed to turn up - no education actually needed. Until the current generation many royals didn't even go to school lef alone univesity. What sort of education do you need to be able to say 'how are you' and to cut a ribbon?

She would have chosen different options at school and university had she been told from the get-go that she would need to have a career which is why she has done some short courses in business since leaving university.

 

[Blog Real]

The work for the firm she just needed to turn up - no education actually needed. Until the current generation many royals didn't even go to school lef alone univesity. What sort of education do you need to be able to say 'how are you' and to cut a ribbon?

She would have chosen different options at school and university had she been told from the get-go that she would need to have a career which is why she has done some short courses in business since leaving university.

I may be wrong, but an heir and especially a monarch usually has more responsibilities than just cutting a ribbon or doing an inauguration. Knowledge of diplomacy, international relations or politics is important.

 

[Somebody]

The work for the firm she just needed to turn up - no education actually needed. Until the current generation many royals didn't even go to school lef alone univesity. What sort of education do you need to be able to say 'how are you' and to cut a ribbon?

She would have chosen different options at school and university had she been told from the get-go that she would need to have a career which is why she has done some short courses in business since leaving university.

But if education was completely up to her, why did she pick this degree at this university instead of courses she actually wanted to do at a different university? I truly don't see the problem. Many people choose a degree that they are interested in - and for people in the upper class like her, the employability of the degree is of lesser interest than for many others.

 

[Somebody]

I may be wrong, but an heir and especially a monarch usually has more responsibilities than just cutting a ribbon or doing an inauguration. Knowledge of diplomacy, international relations or politics is important.

I agree but of course Beatrice was not expected to do much in that area; although a well-rounded education and some knowledge of diplomacy would be helpful even for supporting royals.

 

[duke of poliganc]

I do think they would benefit a lot from having Beatrice as working royal and Eugenie as a part time working royal, they would add a much needed young representative as the current youngest royal is a reluctant heir and his wife who is recovering from cancer, the next youngest is the Edinburgh’s and at 60 both of them can hardly be described as young!

Also I don’t understand why they are trying to raise the profile of the Gloucester‘s recently who are both 80 and 78 unless they are just wanting the help but decided to go with the couple who is soon to retire until William and Kate increase their work again!

 

[Hallo girl]

I do think they would benefit a lot from having Beatrice as working royal and Eugenie as a part time working royal, they would add a much needed young representative as the current youngest royal is a reluctant heir and his wife who is recovering from cancer, the next youngest is the Edinburgh’s and at 60 both of them can hardly be described as young!

Also I don’t understand why they are trying to raise the profile of the Gloucester‘s recently who are both 80 and 78 unless they are just wanting the help but decided to go with the couple who is soon to retire until William and Kate increase their work again!

Maybe they are raising the profile as a thank you for a lifetime of service.

 

[EllieCat]

If 'working royals' is the way forward, and it certainly looks like it is, i can't see why some of the others could be 'supporting royals', meaning Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie could just occasionally turn up as a backup crew; I was pleased to see Eugenie and Zara at the Garden Party this year; it's that sort of thing I mean. It would be great to see them at a grand reception too, but i somehow doubt that would happen in this day and age. Taking over the odd patronage from Princess Alexandra who has well and truly done her duty, but her health means she is an invisible working royal. No matter what happens, the RF NEED some sort of youthful injection. I'm the same age (more or less) as Sophie, but I do like looking at what the younger Royals wear, call me shallow! They add decoration along with the dignity, pomp and circumstance. B&E are loyal too. As are the Phillipses and Tindalls. I remember the days when the Royals would turn up, even at the movie premieres, in tiaras and diamonds. I can see why that's not done now, of course, but we, well I don't, want the Monarchy to look like a group of social workers (with full respect to social workers); they need to stand out.

 

[Iluvbertie]

But if education was completely up to her, why did she pick this degree at this university instead of courses she actually wanted to do at a different university? I truly don't see the problem. Many people choose a degree that they are interested in - and for people in the upper class like her, the employability of the degree is of lesser interest than for many others.

She did things that interested her but wouldn't necessarily lead to a career. Had she been told up front that she would have to have a career she would have chosen subjects and a degree that would have lead to that but having been told she was to be a working royal she chose those subjects that were pure of interest. There aren't many jobs that need or want a 'History of Ideas' degree.

 

[Kaye1850]

She did things that interested her but wouldn't necessarily lead to a career. Had she been told up front that she would have to have a career she would have chosen subjects and a degree that would have lead to that but having been told she was to be a working royal she chose those subjects that were pure of interest. There aren't many jobs that need or want a 'History of Ideas' degree.

Don’t know about that as even back in my day, advice was “uni is not a technical education school, study what you find fascinating.”

 

[Iluvbertie]

Don’t know about that as even back in my day, advice was “uni is not a technical education school, study what you find fascinating.”

Not much use if the degree doesn't lead anywhere and for me, in the 70s, we were told to study a degree that would lead to a job and not only what you found fascinating. By the 00s it was even more so otherwise a waste of time and money if after getting a degree you have to do more courses before being able to get a job.

For Beatrice, after being told she wasn't going to be a working royal she wanted to go into a business career - hence the need to do additional courses. Had the BRF been honest with her she would have done a business degree from the get go.

 

[Leopoldine]

I don't think B and E are being shut out of RF duties because of personal reasons or regarding their erratic parents.

It's just that the world has changed. When HLM was monarch during the 50s, 60s and 70s, there was no internet or Zoom calls. Compare 2025 to 1972. In 1972, there was the (I think) 4-channel BBC, newspapers, and ... radio? Royals had to get out there and meet and greet. Now, less Royals are needed because of all of these newer methods of communication which can provide connection to working Royals.

If William had to, he could connect with 100,000 people in one day. A few Zoom calls, a video of a speech on conservation, maybe even a few instas or posts on the Royal site. They don't need 22 working Royals anymore.

 

[Elly C]

I don't think B and E are being shut out of RF duties because of personal reasons or regarding their erratic parents.

It's just that the world has changed. When HLM was monarch during the 50s, 60s and 70s, there was no internet or Zoom calls. Compare 2025 to 1972. In 1972, there was the (I think) 4-channel BBC, newspapers, and ... radio? Royals had to get out there and meet and greet. Now, less Royals are needed because of all of these newer methods of communication which can provide connection to working Royals.

If William had to, he could connect with 100,000 people in one day. A few Zoom calls, a video of a speech on conservation, maybe even a few instas or posts on the Royal site. They don't need 22 working Royals anymore.

Even with the massive changes in all forms of media, many of the fundamental aspects of having a UK Royal Family haven’t.. The Royal Year involves many occasions where the Royals are expected to directly engage with the public and expected to represent the Country. These are long established - traditions and events that aren’t going to disappear over night as they make up the very fabric of the UK. There’s also the many occasions that Royals carry out similar roles and engagements abroad. As such, and going back to the original theme of the thread, in the near future ( not too near I hope) the Royals are going to be stretched in a way they could not foresee 5-10 years ago.

 

[Hallo girl]

Not much use if the degree doesn't lead anywhere and for me, in the 70s, we were told to study a degree that would lead to a job and not only what you found fascinating. By the 00s it was even more so otherwise a waste of time and money if after getting a degree you have to do more courses before being able to get a job.

For Beatrice, after being told she wasn't going to be a working royal she wanted to go into a business career - hence the need to do additional courses. Had the BRF been honest with her she would have done a business degree from the get go.

What evidence is there that her grandmother was not upfront with her. That she was told one thing then there was a change,

 

[irish_royalist]

What evidence is there that her grandmother was not upfront with her. That she was told one thing then there was a change,

There is absolutely none

 

[Hallo girl]

There is absolutely none

Thank you,

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Regarding the foregoing debate about Princess Beatrice’s expectations for her future when she was at university…

Thanks to TRF’s invaluable archives, I found this report by the very careful Richard Palmer in the Express from the time of Beatrice’s university graduation (September 9, 2011).

Princess Beatrice graduates as proud Andrew and Fergie look on

PRINCESS Beatrice, wearing a cap and gown, took part in her graduation ceremony at Goldsmiths College in London today.

www.express.co.uk

An excerpt:

“Friends have suggested that she will eventually plump for a job in the fashion industry or perhaps fine arts but royal sources have said they have been given no real indication yet where her career plans lie.

Buckingham Palace has also declined to say whether the Princess, who lives rent free in a taxpayer-funded four-bedroom apartment at St James’s Palace, will ever become a full or even part-time working royal, undertaking official duties on behalf of the Queen.

Royal sources have long suggested that she does not figure in the family’s future plans for official duties amid claims that Prince Charles is keen to see a slimmed-down monarchy.

A palace spokesman said today: "Princess Beatrice will over the coming months broaden her knowledge and experience to complement her position as a member of the Royal Family.

"This will involve undertaking a number of internships to develop her experience, particularly in business and philanthropy. She will also continue to be involved with her existing charitable interests and look to progress this work into other relevant areas."”

[...]​

So, publicly, the Palace and their “royal sources” were giving mixed signals about Princess Beatrice’s future at the time of her university graduation university in 2011 - refusing to answer the question about whether she would be a working royal, but “suggesting” behind the scenes that the royal family’s future slimmed-down official duties would not include her, but then also stating on the record that her planned internships were meant to “complement her position as a member of the Royal Family” (as opposed to complementing a future job in the private sector).

One hopes Elizabeth and Charles provided Beatrice with clearer feedback behind closed doors. If their communication with Beatrice was as muddled as their communication with the media, she could hardly be blamed for being confused.

I wonder if perhaps Elizabeth and Charles were not of like mind about Princess Beatrice’s future. That could explain why the on-the-record palace statements and the anonymous “royal source” comments seemed to be in conflict.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I wonder if I am overthinking this, and certainly I do not wish to be excessively speculative (thus, please edit or delete my post if needed), but in light of this news:

Princess Beatrice has become Patron of the Chartered College of Teaching:

HRH Princess Beatrice is our new Patron - Chartered College of Teaching

We are pleased to announce Her Royal Highness Princess Beatrice as our Patron. HRH Princess Beatrice has shown her support for education and for young people through her work as Ambassador and Patron of many organisations, and particularly as Trustee and Founder of Big Change.

chartered.college

I think this is the first of the late Duke of Edinburgh's patronages that has been taken on by a non-working royal.

If it was just an organisation that had never been associated with the late Queen or the late Duke of Edinburgh I doubt that the King would be consulted but for those formerly held by one of his parents I do think he would have been consulted - even if only informally. I doubt that Beatrice would be taking this on without the approval of both Charles and William.

I agree. I can’t conceive of the King and Prince of Wales not being consulted by both the organisation and Beatrice.
This is going to be the first of many similar vacant positions as the older members of the family in turn are no longer available to undertake such roles. Perhaps this is an indication of the current thinking by the monarch and heir as to how things may pan out in future.

and then this article a few weeks later:

Daily Mail senior feature writer Sarah Rainey produced an article about the York princesses, their father and the forthcoming unauthorized biography of him. The article intersperses speculation from royal watchers with quotes from anonymous sources, some of whom are specified to be people close to the family.


According to someone “close to the family”:

“A source close to the family told the Mail this week that Beatrice and Eugenie are 'utterly mortified' by [Andrew] Lownie's book, especially its claims about their father.

Although they'd been braced for its release, the reality – and the global furore it has stirred up – has been worse than they feared. 'They're keeping a distance from [their] dad,' the source reveals.

'The extent to how much the relationship can recover will depend on what further revelations, if any, emerge.'”​

According to “a family friend” and another “associate”:

“As Beatrice and Eugenie grew up, however, a transformation took place. 'The girls lost their loyalty to Andrew and his pompous approach to being royal,' a family friend says.

'They'd been brought up to believe their breeding set them in a class apart. Their change of view was gradual, but was no doubt helped by having been out in the real world at non-Oxbridge universities [Beatrice at Goldsmith's in London; Eugenie at Newcastle].'

Another associate says: 'Considering what they've been through, they're remarkably well-adjusted.'

'They are far more courteous and respectful towards staff than their father has ever been.'”​

According to a “source” who is not further characterized:

“'These days, the girls are rare visitors to Royal Lodge [the £30 million Windsor estate where they grew up, and where Andrew lives on a royal lease, together with Fergie when she's in the UK].

'They spend most of their time raising families, pursuing careers and trying to be normal. Andrew isn't completely ostracised, but arrangements to see Sarah usually take place elsewhere, and the girls seem keener that the King and other senior royals are part of their lives.'”​

The article also reports:

“On social media, where Eugenie boasts 1.8 million followers, the last reference to her father dates back to June 2020, when she wished her 'Papa' a happy Father's Day. In an album of pictures entitled 'Family', Andrew features just once, in a photograph from 2018.

By contrast, Fergie is pictured countless times – on Mothering Sunday, International Women's Day and on her birthday.

In a recent podcast appearance, co-hosted by Prince Harry's ex-girlfriend, Cressida Bonas, the girls described themselves and their mother as a 'tripod'. 'We are each other's biggest fans and … we turn up for each other,' they said. Their father didn't get a mention.”​

Sordid revelations about Andrew leave Eugenie and Beatrice 'mortified'

Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie are used to reading lurid headlines about their parents - particularly when it comes to their father, the Duke of York.

www.dailymail.co.uk

https://archive.ph/8eUut

Whether the sources are speaking the truth or not, it seems that some close to the York princesses – and quite possibly the princesses themselves – have decided it would be better for them to keep their distance from their father in public (even retroactively, cf. the reference to allegedly starting to lose their loyalty in university).

I wonder if one reason for the seeming PR effort to put some distance between Princess Beatrice (likewise Princess Eugenie) and her father the Duke of York in the court of public opinion may be that the king and/or the royal patronages see this as a necessary precondition that Beatrice must fulfill if she is to receive any “Prince Michael of Kent” or “unofficial part-time royal”-type privileges – such has having the late prince consort’s patronage(s) handed down to her.

 

[Alison H]

I doubt that the King would ask his nieces to keep a distance from their father. I would think that they genuinely are mortified. It can't exactly be very nice for two women to read that their father had dozens of girls "delivered" to this hotel room, or that he allegedly cheated on their mother a dozen times before they'd even been married a year.

 

[Mirabel]

i believe most people will be fair-minded enough NOT to hold Andrew's and Sarah's actions against their daughters.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

Had it been about any of my parents i would be genuinely horrified… Noone would have to ask me about keeping a distance… I would have been doing that without thinking twice because i would have been terribly embarrassed

 

[ladongas]

And yet, despite the (alleged) bad behavior of one or both parents, the ‘girls’ grew into elegant, graceful, and dignified young women, worthy of consideration for royal-adjacent duties. Their home life must have been well-managed and …happy.

 

[tommy100]

I think Beatrice and Eugenie's chances of becoming working royals is just the same as it was before the most recent book about Andrew and Fergie - basically 0.

If anything Beatrice taking up the patronage once held by her grandfather makes me more convinced that she won't be called upon as a "working royal" because they are showing she can support charities without the need to be a working royal - she is doing it now whilst working privately.

IMO William doesn't see it a ket part of the RFs role to support lots of charities - he and Catherine have a relatively small list of patronages, nothing like the list in the hundreds other royals have or had and Catherine has been a royal for 15 years or so now. I just don't think he sees it as a key part of the RFs role anymore, not enough certainly to justify bringing in one of Andrew's daughters just to do what she is going to do anyway.

I think going forward "working royals" will be doing those things like FCO trips below state visit level and civic duties visiting communities, not supporting charities as patrons with a long list of other charities to support (though I think this will continue in some sense just with less importance attached to it)

If William needs "reinforcements" it will be for when there are events like Garden Parties where one royal can't ever get around the majority of guests, or State Banquets where they like to have a smattering of royals spread throughout the guests. In those circumstances he can call upon his cousins - just as he did when he called on them when he was hosting a garden party when Catherine was ill and again this year - again having proved this can be done without the cousins becoming "working royals"

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Good points, but I do think royal-adjacent is a good fair label for what you describe as

If William needs "reinforcements" it will be for when there are events like Garden Parties where one royal can't ever get around the majority of guests, or State Banquets where they like to have a smattering of royals spread throughout the guests. In those circumstances he can call upon his cousins - just as he did when he called on them when he was hosting a garden party when Catherine was ill and again this year - again having proved this can be done without the cousins becoming "working royals"

The inheritance of Prince Philip's patronage and the garden party supporting roles were after all assigned to Princess Beatrice (and/or Princess Eugenie/Peter Phillips/Zara Tindall), and not to, say, Flora Vesterberg, or Joe Bloggs, or even the Dukes of Sussex and York, so I do think there is or may eventually be some gray area involved, just as there was/is for Prince and Princess Michael of Kent.

 

[victor1319]

I feel very much, the Princesses of the York Branch of the House of Windsor are now very much in the unholdable position, Prince Harry might have had in mind - Half in, Half out.

They might be still seen as 2nd tier Royals, but with every bad news their father, the Duke of York, and now more and more their mother, the Dukes former wife, get into the spotlight, their personal charity work comes into the spotlight.

More and more folks, even here in The Royal Forums, see their actions with doubts. "Anti-slavery" with an alledged trafficker as father. Financial responsibility with their charities with play for pay parents? Will the Princesses be like their parents and be pandering for money while pretending to be generous? This question will come next!

These things are all not at the fault of the Princesses!

And still: In the days gone by families rose and fell together. This was a very hard aspect of the noble life. There was no "America", where one could have a fresh start with a new name... It was very hard and making a dark shadow over the families' name go away was hard work...

The "Blood Princesses" (Prince Andrew) are exactly that. All what they are, their complete persona is owed to their father's standing, which means nothing anymore.

It will be left to the Crown Prince William, I fear, to come to a decision with this. We'll see...!

 

[royal-blue]

On one hand - they aren't needed because they are mere cousins - but on the other hand - the future working BRF will be extremely small.

 

[Iluvbertie]

That is the plan though - a very small core of working royals with two or maybe four in each generation.

That is what Charles and William want so no place for the York girls as working royals. Given the events of the past week even less chance as every time they appear will be a chance for the media to bring up their parents' appalling choices in their lives. I can even see the girls being advised to not attend Christmas at Sandringham to avoid that sort of thing.

 

[royal-blue]

If the York princesses aren't going to become working royals at any point, it would make sense for them to drop their titles and become private citizens like Zara and Peter. Mind you, I'd say the exact same to Harry and Meghan and likewise Prince and Princess Michael of Kent, but that isn't going to happen.

Mind you, Beatrice and Eugenie don't seem to be using their titles for any gain of status/publicity/advantage.

 

[Blog Real]

If the York princesses aren't going to become working royals at any point, it would make sense for them to drop their titles and become private citizens like Zara and Peter. Mind you, I'd say the exact same to Harry and Meghan and likewise Prince and Princess Michael of Kent, but that isn't going to happen.

Mind you, Beatrice and Eugenie don't seem to be using their titles for any gain of status/publicity/advantage.

That's not going to happen. We have to see titles as more than just someone actively representing a royal house, but also as something that comes from birth as members of a royal family.

 

[duke of poliganc]

If the York princesses aren't going to become working royals at any point, it would make sense for them to drop their titles and become private citizens like Zara and Peter. Mind you, I'd say the exact same to Harry and Meghan and likewise Prince and Princess Michael of Kent, but that isn't going to happen.

Mind you, Beatrice and Eugenie don't seem to be using their titles for any gain of status/publicity/advantage.

But why? People can hold titles and still be private citizens!

Holding a title means simply that you are related to a monarch it doesn’t mean that you are a working royal, it not like a public office where your title is lost when you step down