Duties and Roles of Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie 2: Discussion Sep 2022 -

[EllieCat]

I can remember Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie appearing at least one Garden Party, and I also recall Lady Ella Windsor (as she was then) being invited to a specific State Visit Banquet, can't remember which one, i think it was because she spoke the visitors' language. I have always been of the opinion that the RF could use these 'junior members' in certain occasions, when it suits both sides, especially now to help out when the Princess of Wales is unwell. Because as trivial as it may seem, youthful glamour is what is necessary especially when most of the WRF are above 60, in in some cases closer to 90. And I know that B&E have probably been passed over by the antics of their parents, but really they've done absolutely nothing wrong and should be assessed because of their own personalities and actions which are, in my opinion, other than the odd fashion mishap, faultless, and it's also obvious they are loyal to the family.

 

[TLLK]

Honestly, don’t see this as news.

Yes, her participation in the State Visit would be new but I suspect that would be soley for the banquet, and that would be new for her not new in principal, Prince and Princess Michael of Kent attended state banquets for years despite never being “working royals”. They like everyone to be within so many places of a royal and simply put, don’t have enough now to do that now without calling in support.

As for Ascot, Garden Parties and Trooping… Beatrice had attended those in the past so it would simply be a continuation of what has happened before.

I don’t expect any announcement that Beatrice will become a full time working royal, if so why indeed wouldn’t she have just been given some of the 200 patronages that got dropped in the recent review. I think will continue to be, in effect, the royal reserve, who can attend bigger royal events as a guest to help boost the numbers of royals on parade as it were but no more than that. TBH, I think Beatrice is probably happy with that.

Don’t forget with all this talk of the RF struggling to carry out duties etc…. Looking at the figures most are doing less than last year anyway, including Camilla and the Edinburghs. So I don’t think they feel under any pressure, Charles will have a smaller working royal family that, inevitably, does less than say 2002 when there were more working, active royals, that is just the way it goes.

I agree. I could see her attending the State Banquet now the the Michaels of Kent have announced their retirement.

 

[muriel]

I agree with a number of posters, it is possible that Beatrice may be roped in to play the kind of role that Prince & Princess Michael of Kent used to play, ie, supporting role at large events like state banquets, garden parties and the like.

 

[Hallo girl]

This is just a thought for discussion, if the wrong thread, please move. Do you think it is possible that William is considering bringing the York sisters in to the working royals in the future, obviously when the decision is his to make. They both have young children and jobs, but they are being seen more and more at charitable events. I just wondered if in time when the children are a little bit older they might be happy to do part time royal duties.
They might even be happy to stop their careers by that time.

 

[FigTree]

Eugenie has been seen a lot lately. At events for Charles too. Beatrice is officially still on matenrnity. I don’t really know how someone will be expected to have a job, presumably full time and do all this. I have a feeling at most she is just be part time now. She has been working a lot.

 

[Elly C]

This is just a thought for discussion, if the wrong thread, please move. Do you think it is possible that William is considering bringing the York sisters in to the working royals in the future, obviously when the decision is his to make. They both have young children and jobs, but they are being seen more and more at charitable events. I just wondered if in time when the children are a little bit older they might be happy to do part time royal duties.
They might even be happy to stop their careers by that time.

It’s an interesting point. A lot will rest on the health and well being of the current working royals. It’s going to be many years before George & his siblings will be taking on even part-time duties if they are to go on to Higher Education and possibly other forms of preparatory training . I would imagine William would be keen to allow them to have the same experiences he and Harry had as youngsters which involved them in being away from the UK for some considerable time. This means the burden will continue to be spread amongst a significant number of royals who will soon be octogenarians. Including Beatrice and Eugenie might not have been what was originally planned but may, out of necessity, be required if the Royal Family are to fulfil their customary roles at home and abroad.

 

[Minister of Court]

Do you think it is possible that William is considering bringing the York sisters in to the working royals in the future, obviously when the decision is his to make.

I’d be very surprised if he did. My impression is that William is even more keen on the ”streamlined” monarchy than his father.

I’m also sure that William is aware of the unpopularity of the York branch. Beatrice and Eugenie are unfairly suffering from their parents’ antics, but nevertheless making them ”working” royals paid for by the taxpayer would not be viewed favourably by anyone outside this forum.

Also, when William ascends the throne, which may well take 10 to 20 years, Eugenie and Beatrice are no longer part of the younger generation and may well have diseappared from the wider public consciousness by then.

 

[Hallo girl]

I’d be very surprised if he did. My impression is that William is even more keen on the ”streamlined” monarchy than his father.

I’m also sure that William is aware of the unpopularity of the York branch. Beatrice and Eugenie are unfairly suffering from their parents’ antics, but nevertheless making them ”working” royals paid for by the taxpayer would not be viewed favourably by anyone outside this forum.

Also, when William ascends the throne, which may well take 10 to 20 years, Eugenie and Beatrice are no longer part of the younger generation and may well have diseappared from the wider public consciousness by then.

I agree if we are talking 20 years it will be unlikely, but also William might have had a change of mind due to circumstances.

 

[BriarRose]

If William decided to make anyone a part-time royal, my guess is that it would be Beatrice only. I don't think both sisters would be utilized. However, the Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh are still quite young compared to the older working royals, and I think they will remain full-time royals for the rest of their working lives. I think William would first utilize the Duke and Duchess before bringing others into the fold.

I don't personally think the York sisters are "unfairly suffering." They still live lives of immense privilege and are quite well-known because of who they are. There would be an immense amount of scrutiny on their careers and the careers of their spouses if they were working royals. I think William would not support half in/half out, which is why I don't think either York Princess will be getting additional royal appearances when William is King.

 

[sarahbell86]

I think it all depends on when William becomes king. If Charles and some of the older working royals pass in the next five years, that could leave only W&C and Sophie and Edward as prominent working royals. W&C's children are still young in that situation, and the only viable options would be Beatrice and Eugenie or Louise and James (who are still young themselves).

I understand Charles and William's wish for a slimmed down monarchy, but if Catherine is still only working part-time at that point, help has to come from somewhere. And I think Bea and Eug have done a lovely job so far in walking the line between working royal and private citizen.

 

[MajorCats]

I would love to see Beatrice and Eugenie and Louise as working royals. I am not too sure about James as he
has not been present very often, it is mostly Louise.

 

[Prinsara]

I think Beatrice and Eugenie (and Louise) would be fine working royals/part-time/occasional helpers-out, if they want to. They all seem like perfectly nice and dedicated young women who’d do the institution credit. If William ends up having to need them, he’s lucky he’s got young, credible cousins. (Like his granny and Alexandra.)

(Although in Louise’s case the awkwardness may come if she’s not a Princess.)

 

[BriarRose]

According to her mother, Louise is a Princess, and it’s up to Louise if she wants to use her title now that she is an adult.

 

[Iluvbertie]

William and Charles don't want more workers. They have made that clear - the Sovereign and spouse, heir and spouse and probably the next heir and spouse is, I believe, the long-term intention which is why the older royals aren't being replaced as the older ones retire.

Princess Alexandra, for instance hasn't attended any official event (i.e. one in which she is mentioned in the CC) for over a year and when one of the younger royal do attend an event they don't get any credit for it.

George is now 11 and will be 12 next month. If he is given up to the same age as William was before becoming a full-time working royal it will be another 23 years, as William was 35 when he became a full-time working royal, by which time the current working royals will be :

Duke of Kent - 112 (probably deceased or at least retired)
Duke of Gloucester - 103 (probably deceased or at least retired - his mother remember lived to 101)
Duchess of Gloucester - 100
King Charles - 99
Queen Camilla - 100
The Princess Royal - 97
The Duke of Edinburgh - 84
The Duchess of Edinburgh - 83
The Prince of Wales - 65
The Princess of Wales - 66

George - 34
Charlotte - 32
Louis - 29

Charles was 28 which age George will reach in 16 more years.

The York princesses have been despised pretty much their entire lives by the British public so it is highly unlikely they would be accepted. Maybe if they had taken up official duties after finishing uni they would have shown their value but not it is too late to add one or two nearly middle-aged women to the roster.

This is no indication that Louise is really interested and once she experiences life Down Under (it has been reported that she is going to be in Oz for a semester or two and her boyfriend is an Aussie) she may also want the freedom a non-working royal has.

James is still a school boy but has shown a complete lack of interest in being on public display.

 

[Somebody]

I doubt George will wait as long as William before taking on full-time royal duties - especially if he would be Duke of Cornwall (and Prince of Wales) at an earlier age. The situations are just not comparable. William profited from his grandmother having his father at an early age. The age gaps in the next generations are larger and therefore require an earlier entrance into royal duties.

 

[Curryong]

Yes but George hasn’t finished his education yet, by any means. If he leaves school at 18 as most do, ahead will be about four years of University, plus a possible gap year. Then at least two to three years in the armed forces.

It depends what branch George chooses but, if for instance he wanted to be a helicopter pilot, that means extra training.

While George is at University and in the army or Air Force he isn’t going to be available imo for any more than a handful of royal engagements a year. And by the time he’s finished he may well be coming up to his late 20s. Not much chance then of spending time being a helicopter pilot if he wanted to be.

And yes, I too doubt that either Charles or William want the York princesses on the royal rota now or in the future. Apart from the fact they both have careers and very young families for the foreseeable future, there is the question of Prince Andrew and the awkwardness looming ever present there.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Charles was 28 which for George is still 16 years away and anything less would be unfair. George needs time to grow up and accept that once he starts royal duties he will have to fight for every moment of privacy. While he is in full-time education and undertaking military duty or working in the private sphere he can have greater privacy and given the way he has been raised I can see him waiting until his mid-30s.

 

[sarahbell86]

Charles was 28 which for George is still 16 years away and anything less would be unfair. George needs time to grow up and accept that once he starts royal duties he will have to fight for every moment of privacy. While he is in full-time education and undertaking military duty or working in the private sphere he can have greater privacy and given the way he has been raised I can see him waiting until his mid-30s.

It may be unfair, but it's also the reality of being not only a member of this family, but the heir to the heir. William and George's situations are simply not comparable. William had the luxury of his grandmother living to an advanced age after having his father very young. It can almost certainly be assumed that George will be POW at a younger age than William. Being the heir to the throne comes with responsibilities, no matter the age.

 

[Hallo girl]

William and Charles don't want more workers. They have made that clear - the Sovereign and spouse, heir and spouse and probably the next heir and spouse is, I believe, the long-term intention which is why the older royals aren't being replaced as the older ones retire.

Princess Alexandra, for instance hasn't attended any official event (i.e. one in which she is mentioned in the CC) for over a year and when one of the younger royal do attend an event they don't get any credit for it.

George is now 11 and will be 12 next month. If he is given up to the same age as William was before becoming a full-time working royal it will be another 23 years, as William was 35 when he became a full-time working royal, by which time the current working royals will be :

Duke of Kent - 112 (probably deceased or at least retired)
Duke of Gloucester - 103 (probably deceased or at least retired - his mother remember lived to 101)
Duchess of Gloucester - 100
King Charles - 99
Queen Camilla - 100
The Princess Royal - 97
The Duke of Edinburgh - 84
The Duchess of Edinburgh - 83
The Prince of Wales - 65
The Princess of Wales - 66

George - 34
Charlotte - 32
Louis - 29

Charles was 28 which age George will reach in 16 more years.

The York princesses have been despised pretty much their entire lives by the British public so it is highly unlikely they would be accepted. Maybe if they had taken up official duties after finishing uni they would have shown their value but not it is too late to add one or two nearly middle-aged women to the roster.

This is no indication that Louise is really interested and once she experiences life Down Under (it has been reported that she is going to be in Oz for a semester or two and her boyfriend is an Aussie) she may also want the freedom a non-working royal has.

James is still a school boy but has shown a complete lack of interest in being on public display.

I think it is unfair to say the York princesses were despised, I would like your evidence of that.

 

[BriarRose]

The hard truth is, neither York Princess was given additional royal responsibilities when Harry and Meghan left royal work. And the monarchy survived.

And neither York Princess was given additional royal work when the King and the Princess of Wales were both in cancer treatment at the same time. If it was ever going to happen, that was the time to try it out on a trial basis, under the excuse that it would be a temporary substitution. And the monarchy has continued.

It doesn't mean that the York Princesses would not be capable in royal work or are disliked by Charles and William, or the general public. Their cousins are also not being given royal work. But Charles and William are slimming down the monarchy, which reflects what most European monarchies have already done (and survived). And to my knowledge, neither Charles nor William ever hinted to Beatrice or Eugenie that they would be working royals. Allegedly, Beatrice did have a formal meeting with Charles after she graduated from college, and he told her in no uncertain terms that she would not be a working royal.

I think their parents misled them terribly growing up, but that shouldn't be blamed on Charles and William. Neither are bound by promises made by Andrew, nor unproven, opaque hints possibly made by the late Queen. The Queen herself had decades to elevate the York Princesses into full-time royal work, but she didn't. And I never saw any evidence that the late Queen wasn't fully in control of such decisions, up to the day she passed away.

George will likely become a full-time royal much earlier than his father, and I personally think that will be a better path anyway. And I still think the Beatrice and Eugenie are far better off being who they are, than having to be full-time royals, and their kids are as well.

 

[muriel]

The hard truth is, neither York Princess was given additional royal responsibilities when Harry and Meghan left royal work. And the monarchy survived.

And neither York Princess was given additional royal work when the King and the Princess of Wales were both in cancer treatment at the same time. If it was ever going to happen, that was the time to try it out on a trial basis, under the excuse that it would be a temporary substitution. And the monarchy has continued.

It doesn't mean that the York Princesses would not be capable in royal work or are disliked by Charles and William, or the general public. Their cousins are also not being given royal work. But Charles and William are slimming down the monarchy, which reflects what most European monarchies have already done (and survived). And to my knowledge, neither Charles nor William ever hinted to Beatrice or Eugenie that they would be working royals. Allegedly, Beatrice did have a formal meeting with Charles after she graduated from college, and he told her in no uncertain terms that she would not be a working royal.

I think their parents misled them terribly growing up, but that shouldn't be blamed on Charles and William. Neither are bound by promises made by Andrew, nor unproven, opaque hints possibly made by the late Queen. The Queen herself had decades to elevate the York Princesses into full-time royal work, but she didn't. And I never saw any evidence that the late Queen wasn't fully in control of such decisions, up to the day she passed away.

George will likely become a full-time royal much earlier than his father, and I personally think that will be a better path anyway. And I still think the Beatrice and Eugenie are far better off being who they are, than having to be full-time royals, and their kids are as well.

Very well put, @BriarRose .

I suspect George and possibly, his siblings, will become working royals sooner than William and Harry did. That was largely due to the cover provided by QE2 & Philip, C&C, Anne, Andrew, Edward & Sophie, the Gloucester's, Eddie Kent and Alexandra all being around at the time. I suspect George will finish University at around 21, have a 2-3 year stint in the armed forces, and be full "on the beat" by the time he is 25.

As regards B&E, I suspect they will be like Prince & Princess Michael of Kent were. From time to time, B&E and possibly Zara & Peter, will be called to events like state banquets and garden parties. This is, in essence, to provide royal ballast, and little more.

 

[duke of poliganc]

I think it is unfair to say the York princesses were despised, I would like your evidence of that.

I think it is unfair to say the York princesses were despised, I would like your evidence of that.

I think it’s not that they despised but as the media today love to make royal stories comparable to Disney stories, they have created stories and narrative that would make both of them looks like Cinderella’s two ugly sisters!

I do believe that both of them were told more likely when they finished college that they are not needed as working royals so they didn’t rush into going to make a career for them self and enjoyed their luxury lifestyle which added to criticism and them being seen as out of touch by the public and having titles while not working as royals while in fact they were denied the opportunity to work for the monarchy!

Also their parents didn’t help with many scandals and the media made sure to remind the public about that, for example if Beatrice had a child the media story would be “Princess Beatrice the daughter of alleged sexual offenders Prince Andrew gave birth to a child”

 

[BriarRose]

I do believe that both of them were told more likely when they finished college that they are not needed as working royals so they didn’t rush into going to make a career for them self and enjoyed their luxury lifestyle which added to criticism and them being seen as out of touch by the public and having titles while not working as royals while in fact they were denied the opportunity to work for the monarchy!

Eugenie appeared to have always been on a particular career path in auctioning art since her early days of college. And in fairness to Eugenie, there haven't been rumors that she believed she would be a working royal during college. I'm not even sure she ever wanted to be working royal.

Beatrice, allegedly, assumed she would be a working royal when she was younger, but there is no evidence that the Queen, Charles, or William ever gave her a reason to assume that. In fairness to Beatrice, there have been many sources claiming that her parents, who had no authority to promise her anything, told her all her childhood that she would be a working royal. I do feel bad for Beatrice, but I don't think the blame lies outside of the House of York, unless something happened that has remained secret so far.

I had forgotten about the tabloid articles of Beatrice yachting and traveling while allegedly working for a London or New York-based office, but you are right, they did exist. I just think the decision not to make Beatrice a working royal was firmly made years before those tabloid stories occurred.

The tabloids were awful after William and Catherine's wedding, and I will never understand why someone advised the girls to wear those hats and that makeup. The hats got more attention, but their makeup made it so much worse- it looked like it was put on with a trowel- two fresh, beautiful young women at a daytime wedding with makeup meant for a nighttime drag show. The girls were still young and understandably trusted the wrong people at that time. The timing was especially bad, as the alleged meeting with Charles took place a few months later, but I don't think there was any plan to make Bea a working royal before W&C's wedding anyway. At least, there has never been any proof that Charles or the Queen had any plans to do so,

But I think their reputations have never been better than they are currently. In fact, I think it's the tabloids today that are currently driving the premise that they should become working royals- the opposite of 15 years ago.

 

[duke of poliganc]

Eugenie appeared to have always been on a particular career path in auctioning art since her early days of college. And in fairness to Eugenie, there haven't been rumors that she believed she would be a working royal during college. I'm not even sure she ever wanted to be working royal.

Beatrice, allegedly, assumed she would be a working royal when she was younger, but there is no evidence that the Queen, Charles, or William ever gave her a reason to assume that. In fairness to Beatrice, there have been many sources claiming that her parents, who had no authority to promise her anything, told her all her childhood that she would be a working royal. I do feel bad for Beatrice, but I don't think the blame lies outside of the House of York, unless something happened that has remained secret so far.

I had forgotten about the tabloid articles of Beatrice yachting and traveling while allegedly working for a London or New York-based office, but you are right, they did exist. I just think the decision not to make Beatrice a working royal was firmly made years before those tabloid stories occurred.

The tabloids were awful after William and Catherine's wedding, and I will never understand why someone advised the girls to wear those hats and that makeup. The hats got more attention, but their makeup made it so much worse- it looked like it was put on with a trowel- two fresh, beautiful young women at a daytime wedding with makeup meant for a nighttime drag show. The girls were still young and understandably trusted the wrong people at that time. The timing was especially bad, as the alleged meeting with Charles took place a few months later, but I don't think there was any plan to make Bea a working royal before W&C's wedding anyway. At least, there has never been any proof that Charles or the Queen had any plans to do so,

But I think their reputations have never been better than they are currently. In fact, I think it's the tabloids today that are currently driving the premise that they should become working royals- the opposite of 15 years ago.

I don’t think before they finished college that they were promised that they are going to be working royals while I think the other way around meaning the decision to make it clear that they are not expected to be working royals was delivered around the time they finished their education.

For me I don’t blame their parents for that or see that their parents gaslight them to believe that they would be working royals, we got to remember that the idea of making a working royal different from just a royal is a new thing that probably started in the early 2010’s so it’s not delusional that on the early 2000’s that a royal prince/ss is expected to be a working royal!

 

[BriarRose]

I can recall Royal reporters openly discussing Charles’ plan to slim down the monarchy before Catherine and William became engaged- far before Eugenie went to college, and right around when Beatrice started college, if not earlier. It well known before that.

Maybe the girls were too young to have much exposure to that type of media at the time, but their parents certainly heard all about it. Plus Andrew allegedly attended meetings with his family where Charles discussed the plan. If Andrew didn’t tell his daughters the truth about what was openly discussed and acknowledged, then that’s between him and his daughters. There is simply no way Beatrice’s parents didn’t know that the future King wasn’t going to give her royal work before she graduated college.

 

[Iluvbertie]

It may be unfair, but it's also the reality of being not only a member of this family, but the heir to the heir. William and George's situations are simply not comparable. William had the luxury of his grandmother living to an advanced age after having his father very young. It can almost certainly be assumed that George will be POW at a younger age than William. Being the heir to the throne comes with responsibilities, no matter the age.

To paraphrase Queen Victoria 'there are no duties or responsiblitilies for the Prince of Wales' and she was correct.

Other than the Sovereign there are no actual responsibilities for any other member of the Royal Family. Until George is actually King he doesn't have to do anything at all. He probably will but constitutionally and legally he will have no responsibilities until then.

 

[Blog Real]

To paraphrase Queen Victoria 'there are no duties or responsiblitilies for the Prince of Wales' and she was correct.

Other than the Sovereign there are no actual responsibilities for any other member of the Royal Family. Until George is actually King he doesn't have to do anything at all. He probably will but constitutionally and legally he will have no responsibilities until then.

This may be true in theory, but in practice he needs to be at least visible and show some work, people need to know him. I believe that from a certain point on he will receive some patronage and support some causes.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I can recall Royal reporters openly discussing Charles’ plan to slim down the monarchy before Catherine and William became engaged- far before Eugenie went to college, and right around when Beatrice started college, if not earlier. It well known before that.

Maybe the girls were too young to have much exposure to that type of media at the time, but their parents certainly heard all about it. Plus Andrew allegedly attended meetings with his family where Charles discussed the plan. If Andrew didn’t tell his daughters the truth about what was openly discussed and acknowledged, then that’s between him and his daughters. There is simply no way Beatrice’s parents didn’t know that the future King wasn’t going to give her royal work before she graduated college.

It was reported in 1992, after the first meeting of the now defunct Way Ahead Group meeting that Charles wanted a slimmed down royal family, including the idea that Charles wanted to strip the York princesses of their HRH Princess styles - limiting HRH Prince/Princess to the children of the heir apparent in each generation only. The Queen stopped that.

It was also reported that Beatrice asked her grandmother, uncle and cousin whether she would be wanted/needed as a working royal at least 4 times during her education (at the times she needed to make choices about what to study) and each time she was told she would be similar to Princess Alexandra. However shortly after she graduated from university (college in the UK is not the same thing and can, in fact, be a high school e.g. Eton is a College but there are also post school colleges that largely deal with technical and trade education - to refer to university as a college is insulting to that institution in the UK's education system) she was told she wasn't going to be wanted or needed. That was a few weeks after William and Catherine married. She has since added additional training courses, that she would have done if Elizabeth II, Charles III and William had been honest with her in the first place (my sources for this come from personal contacts as well as what was reported in the media and the so-called 'royal experts'.

Eugenie was told right through her education she needed to plan for a career as she wasn't going to be wanted or needed.

 

[Iluvbertie]

This may be true in theory, but in practice he needs to be at least visible and show some work, people need to know him. I believe that from a certain point on he will receive some patronage and support some causes.

He can be visible by going to the football, the races, the tennis, the rugby etc - as William doesn now. He will still have to run the Duchy of Cornwall but doesn't really need to even see anyone directly We are already seeing that William and Catherine are doing fewer engagements than Charles and either of his wives did when he was in that position and connecting via the use of social media rather than via actual physical contact.

 

[Somebody]

So, what specific courses did she take up in preparation to work for the firm? And what would she have done otherwise?

A-levels in in Drama, History and Film Studies; except for History, don't suggest a thorough preparation for a royal role. Her university studies in 'History and History of Ideas' seem a slightly better fit. Although given that the future king decided to study Geography after A-levels in geography, history of art and biology, the royal family doesn't seem to be that particular about anybody's choice of major/subjects. The university studies chosen by continental future monarchs are much more clearly related to their future job.