Duke and Duchess of Windsor (1894-1972) and (1895-1986)


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I saw this video some years ago about the Duke and Duchess of Windsor and found it interesting as they were irritating. Especially her who controls the interview even when she's silent. Per description, it was filmed in October 1969 and broadcast as a radio interview on 27 March 1970.

Years before documents were found in Portugal exposing his connections with Hitler, called Operation Willie, to be placed back as king of England after a successful invasion during WWII. That means the future Queen Elizabeth and her entire family would have been removed and more than likely disappear in a concentration camp or terminated upon the invasion.

I bet the Duke knew the consequences for his family and probably care little. Ironically, per news after the discovery of the documents, QEII was not aware of these treason documents until after her uncle's passing.




 
^Very interesting interview. I am always unsure if he really wanted to abdicate because he didn't feel he was part of the "establishment " and just wanted to change how things were done. I was surprised by his taking an "ordinary" car to visit a poor area instead of a luxury vehicle because of how it looked. As for Wallis I sometimes had the feeling that she would have been content not marrying him and felt obligated to marry him. She became one of the most hated women in the world ( this being besides visiting Nazi Germany). I don't really think she was the driving force behind a lot of his decisions. Personally I think some of the married ins get the blame for their spouses' choices. I think sometimes it's easier for the public to blame the spouse instead of believing that so and so doesn't want to be king or prince or duke etc. Not sure where I read it but supposedly after the Duke died she was treated poorly in her later years by her staff.
 
^Very interesting interview. I am always unsure if he really wanted to abdicate because he didn't feel he was part of the "establishment " and just wanted to change how things were done. I was surprised by his taking an "ordinary" car to visit a poor area instead of a luxury vehicle because of how it looked. As for Wallis I sometimes had the feeling that she would have been content not marrying him and felt obligated to marry him. She became one of the most hated women in the world ( this being besides visiting Nazi Germany). I don't really think she was the driving force behind a lot of his decisions. Personally I think some of the married ins get the blame for their spouses' choices. I think sometimes it's easier for the public to blame the spouse instead of believing that so and so doesn't want to be king or prince or duke etc. Not sure where I read it but supposedly after the Duke died she was treated poorly in her later years by her staff.

@Maryrose Here in Upstate NY we have one of the extended Vanderbilt homes turned into a Museum, it's the one in the Hudson Valley adjacent to the Roosevelts two museum homes and Presidential Library. We went on those tours a few times in 2018 and 2019 before our post retirement relocation to NY in 2021.

During one tour at the Vanderbilt's museum I recall the historian tour guide mentioned that Wallis Simpson was introduced to Edward by a Vanderbilt relation, Thelma (Morgan) Furness born 1904 - died 1970. Her twin sister Gloria married into the Vanderbilts and Thelma was Gloria Vanderbilt's aunt. Gloria Vanderbilt, who became a successful fashion business woman thanks to selling on USA shopping channels, was the mother of CNN host Anderson Cooper.

Thelma was the actual regular mistress of prince Edward and made the terrible mistake of introducing her friend, Wallis, to him. Had Thelma, a married woman, prevented her side piece boyfriend's affair with her friend Wallis history as we know it would have been quite different. I had no clue until we had the tour guide giving us those historical associations.

I found more on Thelma and Wallis if you want to read about the world surrounding Edward's private and scandalous side life https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Morgan-13698
 
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^ I remember reading about Wallis being introduced by her friend. I don't think anyone thought that they would marry-she would be one of many mistresses.
On a side note being in NY I will have to take a road trip to visit these museums you mentioned (after winter). Thanks so much for the info Toledo.
 
^ I remember reading about Wallis being introduced by her friend. I don't think anyone thought that they would marry-she would be one of many mistresses.
On a side note being in NY I will have to take a road trip to visit these museums you mentioned (after winter). Thanks so much for the info Toledo.

When we started visiting the Hudson Valley area was to see the real estate available for our plan to move from CT to NY after retirement. The best tours are in summer and we scheduled trips to start with the Vanderbilt's home, where we learned about their connection to UK's King Edward and Wallis Simpson, then the Roosevelts three museums (the Presidential Library, their home and Mrs. Roosevelt's second house she shared with her female partner until Eleanor decided to move on.

Then two visits to Olanna House up the Hudson where they have a chair made out of the Connecticut tree where the actual declaration of independence was hidden away during the independence war.

The Vanderbilt's that owned the house near the Roosevelt's were a branch off the main Newport line. On that year we visited the tour guide did include historical bits and information how the family, and their friends, ended up causing Wallis Simpson to meet Edward and, as the saying goes, the rest is history.
 
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Interesting question of whether a son would have been able to inherit the Duke of Windsor's dukedom. Under normal circumstances the letters patent would have a remainder to "the heirs male of the body lawfully begotten". But these Letters Patent have been sealed and so their contents are unknown to most, as far as I know. I believe it says somewhere on the heraldica.org website that there are documents regarding the abdication aftermath which are sealed until 2038. I wonder if the letters patent of March 8, 1937 (the ones granting the dukedom of Windsor) are among these documents.

I'm willing to bet they were sealed (for 101 years no less) because they are not of the ordinary form.

First, we can assume there were no subsidiary titles conferred as none were ever mentioned (by King George VI at his first privy council on Dec. 12, 1936 when he conferred the dukedom on his older brother)) or at any other time.

This was no doubt to ensure that no first born son would have a courtesy title to use.

Second, I'll wager that the Letters Patent did not have the usual (or in fact any) remainder precisely so that any son could not inherit the title upon the Duke's death. The King (encouraged no doubt by his Queen) went to great lengths to deny any royal status to the Duchess (Mrs. Simpson) and any future children. This we know for sure by the Letters Patent of May 27, 1937 which expressly denied HRH to the wife and any descendants of the Duke.

If I am correct about the Dukedom having no remainder, instead of being hereditary, it would have been in effect a life peerage! Perhaps the first one ever and years before life peerages (all Baronies) began in 1958.
The Heraldica website includes an assortment of documents from the National Archives related to the Letters Patent (27 May 1937) denying the HRH to Wallis and any children.

In a note (dated 4 May 1937) from Geoffrey Ellis (Counsel to the Crown in Peerage and Honours claims) to Sir John Simon (Home Secretary), Elllis makes the following statement:

"The Crown has created him Duke of Windsor, to him and the heirs male of his body...."

The drafting of the letters patent of 1937
That is very odd and I've never thought of it before. But it appears you are correct. The 1949 edition of Burke's Peerage calls him "Duke of Windsor" with no subsidiary titles.

Compare this to the entries for the other Royal Dukes, for example his brother Henry who is called "Duke of Gloucester, Earl of Ulster and Baron Culloden."

https://archive.org/stream/burkesgenealogic1949unse#page/n245/mode/2up

The lovely new website Corpus of British Administrative Instruments (Jason Loch) has the full text of the Letters Patent creating the Dukedom of Windsor.


Indeed, hereditary to heirs male of the body lawfully begotten, but with no subsidiary titles.

I wonder if not creating a subsidiary title was intended as a sort of favor to Edward, ensuring that all the children from the marriage would bear the name of the Royal House itself (Windsor). Without a subsidiary title, his eldest legitimate son and heir would probably be styled Lord Windsor.

That son would still enjoy the same precedence that he would enjoy as Marquess or Earl of some other designation, since the precedence of peers' sons depends on their father's rank, not the rank of their courtesy title.
 
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