Ducal House of Saxe-Meiningen (Wettin)

[Warren]

The Ducal House of Saxe-Meiningen

Founded in 1681 by Bernhard I, Duke of Saxe- Meiningenn (d 1706), 6th son of Ernst "the Pious", Duke of Saxe-Gotha.
On the extinction of the sub-branch of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg in 1825, the Duchy of Saxe-Meiningen gained much additional territory, more than doubling its area.
The dynasty ceased to reign 10 November 1918.

Members of the Ducal House bear the title of Prince or Princess of Saxe-Meiningen, Duke or Duchess of Saxony.
A convention of the Ernestine Line of the House of Saxony held in 1844 decided that the qualification of Highness should be borne by all the children of a reigning Duke and of an heir presumptive
with other members of the Ducal House retaining the qualification of Serene Highness.


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[Count langley]

Does anyone have any information on the Ducal Family of Saxe-Meiningen? I have always thought this Duchy was a curious place.
Any photos of the royal residences?

 

[Marengo]

Some information about HH Duke (Friedrich-) Konrad, Duke of Saxe-Meiningen, Head of the Ducal House, can be found in Wikipedia, here.

Occupation: Banker
Marital status: unmarried
The Duke was born in Ziegenberg, Hesse, on 14 April 1952, son of Bernhard (IV), Duke of Saxe-Meiningen, Head of the Ducal House (1901-1984) by his second wife Baroness Wera Schaffer von Bernstein (1914-1994). Duke Bernhard married her in 1948 and they were divorced in 1975.

Duke (Friedrich-) Konrad has an older half-brother, Prince Friedrich-Ernst (born at Meiningen 1935, died 2004) from Duke Bernhard's first marriage in 1931 to Margot Grossler (1911-1947); they were divorced in 1947. The issue of the marriage, a son and a daughter, do not have dynastic rights or bear the qualification of Highness. For this reason (Friedrich-) Konrad became Head of the Ducal House on the death of his father in 1984.

However, Prince Friedrich-Ernst married as his second wife in 1977 HH Princess Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha (born 1951) and they have a son, Prince Constantin of Saxe-Meiningen who was born in 1980. It will be interesting how the succession will be arranged. I am not aware what the relationship between the half brothers is like.

The Saxe-Meiningen family tree at Paul Theroff's Online Gotha can be found here (scroll down).

 

[fearghas]

I don't know the details for sure but I have read that Konrad is unlikely to marry and after him the succession will pass to his older brother. Other people might have a better understanding.

 

[Stefan]

I don't know the details for sure but I have read that Konrad is unlikely to marry and after him the succession will pass to his older brother. Other people might have a better understanding.

To his nephew as his half-brother has died a few years ago.

 

[Warren]

Any photos of the royal residences?

Schloss Elisabethenburg
Schloss Elisabethenburg in Meiningen, a Baroque palace built in 1682-92 on the site of an earlier Late Gothic castle as the residence of the Dukes of Saxe-Meiningen, now houses the State Museums. It has a sumptuously appointed interior.

Veste Heldburg
Veste Heldburg

In 1875 Duke George II of Saxe-Meiningen had the 16th century Ernestine fortifications remodelled in the theatrical Romantic style of a fairytale castle.
The Banqueting Hall wing of the castle is in the Renaissance style.
The complex sits on a conical rock formation and dominates the surrounding countryside.

 

[Next Star]

Interesting I must say the way things have turned out in this headship succession from reading others post. Beautiful pictures of the royal residences thank you Warren.

 

[Jason R Maier esq]

Very nice picture of the Coat of Arms.

Anyhow, as far as more infor about the ducal family . . . . Archduchess Regina of Austria was born a Princess of Saxe-Meiningen (daughter of Prince George of Saxe-Meiningen who was the head of this house from 1941-1946 when he died in a Russian POW camp). Her only sister Marie Elizabeth died at 3 months in 1923; her older brother Anton Ulrich was KIA in 1940 and another brother Frederick Alfred was a monk and renounced his succession rights.

As has been mentioned, the current head of the household is the unmarried Prince Konrad (with the heir apparent being his nephew Frederick Constantin).

 

[Count langley]

I found a picture of the Erbprinzenpalais (Große Palais).

Erbprinzenpalais, Meiningen
Erbprinzenpalais, Meiningen

Schloss Landsberg

-> Schloss Landsburg, Meiningen large
http://www.m-benz.de/Meiningen/alt-Meiningen/landsberglithoG.jpg

 

[amedea]

how was the relationship between Konrad and Friedrich Ernst?
did Konrad already officially recognise his nephew as heir?
I think the family has always been lutheran: how Regina and her brother are/became catholic?

 

[MAfan]

Maybe their mother was Catholic, and they have been raised following this faith...

 

[Stefan]

Maybe their mother was Catholic, and they have been raised following this faith...

Yes exactly. Duchess Klare-marie, the mother of Regina and their sibling was catholic and thus the children where raised in this faith. But the other members remained protestant.

 

[Next Star]

I know that Prince Konard is unmarried without an issue.I am also hearding he has a nephew from his older brother which he could make him his heir and the house would continue through him.Reading that if he does not adopted an heir nor legally weds and produces an heir this house will die out with a male issue.Which would be so sad.

 

[Dalps09]

Another possibility is that another member of this house might inherit the claim (Micheal of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach, Andreas of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha ?). Or again, it could die out just like it happened to the Saxe-Altenburg branch, since there's no need to find an heir because there's no more monarchy in Germany...

 

[amedea]

It would be quite ridicolous if the claim is inherited by the Weimar-Eisenachs or by the Coburg-Gothas, since this houses have dynastic heirs just because they consider dynastic also marriages with commoners

 

[Vito M.]

Confused about Marriage Rules/Ebenburtigkeit for this House

A previous poster notes that the Saxe-Weimars and Saxe-Coburg-Gothas will survive because they consider marriages to commoners as dynastic so they could inherit the "claims" of the Meiningen House . Yet it's very unclear to me what, if anything consistent, is the story with the Saxe-Meiningens.

1. It seems that Prince Konrad's mother was "only" a Baroness, which by traditional standards would have meant his parents' marriage was morganatic at best:
Wiki: Bernhard, Prince (Duke) of Saxe-Meiningen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard,_Prince_of_Saxe-MeiningenThis page suggests that Konrad's father's first marriage, to a totally untitled woman, WAS considered morganatic. So were the standards lowered at some point?

2. Relatedly, Konrad's uncle, who later became head of the house, married shortly after World War One to a Countess from a family that ,while very ancient, had never, as far as I know, been reichsunmittelbar or accepted to meet ebenburtig standards by royals:
Wiki: Georg, Prince (Duke) of Saxe-Meiningen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg,_Prince_of_Saxe-Meiningen
This couple's daughter Regina married Otto von Habsburg. Wouldn't she have been considered a morganaut? Yet she is the mother of the current head of the house of Habsburg-Lorraine since Otto abdicated/retired/resigned.

 

[jonnydep]

Saxe-Meiningen succession issues

yes the succession of this house is somewhat confusing..... i will give you a potted history of the events......

bernhard III died without male issue in 1928. he was succeeded by his half brother ernst. he had married morgnatically in 1892 and therefore his issue was excluded from the succession.

ernst died in 1941, was succeeded by his nephew georg III, who in turn died in 1946. however he had two sons, the elder was killed in 1940 and the younger son, being a carthusian monk was passed over, therefore bernhard IV succeeded his brother as head of the house in 1946.

bernhard had married, during the headship of ernest, a commoner and thier son has no dynastic rights at all. this marriage was dissolved by divorce in 1947. bernhard then remarried a barons daugther in 1948.

i have not read or heard that (friedrich konrad) the son of this second marriage has no dynastic rights unlike his elder half brother (friedrich ernst), in fact in 1984 after his fathers death he became head of the house did he not !!

It seems that Prince Konrad's mother was "only" a Baroness, which by traditional standards would have meant his parents' marriage was morganatic at best

i can only guess that his parents marriage was considered to be equal by the familys rules and laws or that these may have been amended by the head of the house prior or at the time of the marriage (the head of the house was at that time none other than the bridegroom himself)

yes as the head of the house bernhard is entiltled to amend the family rules and laws. perhaps there was a need to as the house was heading to extinction otherwise !!

you may be asking as to why bernhard upon his succession to the headship of the house had not amended the family rules and laws which made his first marriage an equal marriage and make his son by this marriage his heir...

1, perhaps this action would harm the already tarnished image of the family in the aftermath of the second world war .....the family had links with hitler and the nazi party (as did most of the german royal familes to be honest).

Bernhard himself joined the Nazi party on the 1 march 1932, as did his wife Margot.
Other family members also became members of the Nazi party:
Duke Georg III, 1 May 1933 and his wife Klara 1 may 1931.
They and the two sisters of Georg (Louise and Feodora) was often seen in the company of Hitler, who went out of his way to obtain thier good graces, he even bowed, clicked and all but knelt in thier presence just to please them......!!

2, his marriage was heading towards a divorce anyway !!

3, to make ones morganatic issue ones heirs is not the done thing amongst the german royal families (yes there is one exception to this rule..that of the grand ducal house of baden back in 1817).

yes remarriage and the begetting of heirs was the better option!!

i hasten to add this is conjecture on my part, but a interesting possiabitly all the same !!
well it looks very much like this house will become extinct upon friedich konrads death !!

 

[jonnydep]

Konrad's uncle, who later became head of the house, married shortly after World War One to a Countess from a family that ,while very ancient, had never, as far as I know, been reichsunmittelbar or accepted to meet ebenburtig standards by royals:

well i can only guess that this marriage is a equal marriage as per the family rules and laws, as the younger son (the monk) was styled or known as the hereditary prince of saxe meiningen... so i can only conclude that if a member of ducal family is permitted to marry a countess without the issue losing thier dynastic rights, the same would apply to a member of the ducal family marrying a baroness (friedrich konrads mother). one must remember that the first wife of bernhard was a commoner without any title and so was the wife of ernst to boot !!

This couple's daughter Regina married Otto von Habsburg. Wouldn't she have been considered a morganaut? Yet she is the mother of the current head of the house of Habsburg-Lorraine since Otto abdicated/retired/resigned.

well as i have stated adove it is clear that regina was a full member of the ducal family.....no to my knowledge the marriage of otto and regina was a equal marriage !!

 

[JSP]

Saxe-Meiningens at ADss Regina funeral

Are there any recent photos of the present generation ?

On another board I was told that only Pr.Constantin attended ADss Regina's funeral.
Are there any photos of him ?

A very small representation from the family indeed, that cannot be explained just by the difference of religion.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I don't know what Prince Constantin has to due with the Saxe-Meiningen family.
I could not find any pictures of any of the remaining household.

 

[Warren]

I don't know what Prince Constantin has to due with the Saxe-Meiningen family.

Really?
Prince (Friedrich-) Constantin, born 1980, is the son of the late Prince Friedrich-Ernst of Saxe-Meiningen by his second wife Princess Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha.
On the death of the current Head of the Ducal House, Duke (Friedrich-) Konrad who is unmarried, Constantin will assume the Headship.

 

[MAfan]

Just a question: why is Duke Konrad the Head of the Ducal House and not Duke Constantin? Constantin is the only son of the late Duke Friedrich Ernst, while Konrad is FE's younger brother.

 

[Stefan]

Just a question: why is Duke Konrad the Head of the Ducal House and not Duke Constantin? Constantin is the only son of the late Duke Friedrich Ernst, while Konrad is FE's younger brother.

Because he has a noble mother, although a minor noble. Friedrich Ernst mother was a commoner. Apparently there was some quarrel between the brothers but it was then agreed that Konrad is the heir but because he is unmarried Constantin will suced him.

 

[jonnydep]

yes, Friedrich Ernst had no dynastic rights, and therefore did not succeed his father as the Head of the House in 1984.

 

[glaM]

HH Princess Maria Alexandra (Marie-Alix) Elisabeth Beatrice of Saxe-Meiningen, Duchess of Saxony (Heilbronn, July 5th, 1978)
Married: Benno Beat Christian Widmer (Basel, July 17th, 1971)
(religious) Gravedona, July 17th, 2002 and (civil) Basel, April 26th, 2004

who is? picture?
thank you

 

[MAfan]

She is the daughter of the late Prince Friedrich Ernst of Saxe Meiningen (himself the son of Duke Bernhard of Saxe-Meiningen) and his second wife Princess Beatrice, née Princess of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

 

[glaM]

Yes, but there is no picture of her?
Sorry for my bad English.
Thank you

 

[jungleboy_oz]

Current family member photos

Find attached a photo of Regina of Saxe-Meiningen and also of Prince Constatin and his sister Marie.

Below is a link for a picture of the cuurent head of the Saxe-Meiningen House, Duke Konrad:

german-american Evening :: P1020835.jpg picture by royal-travel - Photobucket

 

[nithsdale]

I don't know what Prince Constantin has to due with the Saxe-Meiningen family.
I could not find any pictures of any of the remaining household.

It is ridiculous that Pr Constantin cannot be considered as heir apparent to the Saxe-Meiningen House.. He is the son of Friedrich-Ernest, Prinz von Saxe-Meiningen (according to Gotha almanach) and Pss of Saxe-Coburg. Yes, his father was son of Duke of saxe-Meiningen and non-titled woman, but look at the other proncely and ducal houses in Germany - this is not now the reason of refusal to succeed the headship! (not talking about European reigning royals consorts... lik Mette-Marit, Catherine or Maxima)

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Princess Adelaide of Saxe-Meiningen (1891-1971) married Prince Adalbert of Prussia. How was she related to the Princess Adelaide of Saxe-Meiningen who married the future William IV of England?