Debate on the Reform of the Spanish Constitution (Re: Succession)

[Victoria]

What would it happen if Letizia and Felipe have daughters only? Are they heiress to the throne or is only for males?

 

[Dennism]

As of now, the newly-elected government of Zapatero has said that it will seek to allow for the succession of females to the throne. The amendment would not apply to the current generation of royals though. So it would start with any children that Felipe and Letizia would have.

 

[Victoria]

That's interesting! If they have a girl it will be the first Queen heiress to the throne am I correct?

 

[Dennism]

I think so. Yes.

 

[wymanda]

Originally posted by Victoria@Apr 29th, 2004 - 8:09 am
That's interesting! If they have a girl it will be the first Queen heiress to the throne am I correct?

Of all Spain yes but remember that Castile always allowed Queens Regnant, ie Isabella of Castile - Mother of Catherine of Aragon - At that time Aragon & Castile were united under Isabella and her husband Ferdinand of Aragon.

 

[xicamaluca]

Girls can be Queens in Spain, what happens is that male as prefence over female (the called "Ley Salica" (salic law)). So, if Felipe and Letizia only have girls, the eldest will be Queen, there isn't any problem with that .

What the goverment wants to change is the salic law, to end the prefence. Means that the eldest, male or female, will became the heir to the throne :flower:

But this change only can happen in 4 years time, and is probable that the 1st child of Felipe and Letizia is alread born, so the most certain that the change will only apply to Felipe's grandchildren

 

[tiaraprin]

Originally posted by xicamaluca@May 27th, 2004 - 3:26 am
Girls can be Queens in Spain, what happens is that male as prefence over female (the called "Ley Salica" (salic law)). So, if Felipe and Letizia only have girls, the eldest will be Queen, there isn't any problem with that .

What the goverment wants to change is the salic law, to end the prefence. Means that the eldest, male or female, will became the heir to the throne  :flower:

But this change only can happen in 4 years time, and is probable that the 1st child of Felipe and Letizia is alread born, so the most certain that the change will only apply to Felipe's grandchildren

You hit the nail on the head!! There have been Queen Regnants of Spain back in the 18th and 19th centuries. The Spanish monarchy is like the British Monarchy--males come first. If there are only females, then the eldest will succeed as HM Queen Elizabeth II did in England in 1952.

It seems most of the monarchies now are trying to remove the Salic Law-this should be interesting. I have read that King Karl Gustaf XVI is not a supporter of this--he doesn't wish his daughter to become Queen--not out of disrespect to her. I guess he thinks it is a man's job--I don't know.

 

[hrhcp]

Victoria  Posted: Apr 28th, 2004 - 7:09 pm

That's interesting! If they have a girl it will be the first Queen heiress to the throne am I correct?

Imagine how many old kings must be "turning over in their graves" when the next generation of kings (er ... queens) inherit their titlles ?
- Norway
- Sweden
- The Netherlands
- Belgium
- Denmark, maybe
- Spain, maybe

Only England will have a KING !

 

[Alisa]

Well not the next generations of sovereigns , as they will all be male except for Victoria.

UK-male (Charles)
Denmark- male (Frederik)
Norway-male (Haakon)
Sweden-female (Victoria)
Belgium-male (Philippe)
Netherlands-male (W-A)
Spain-male (Felipe)
Monaco-male (Albert)

 

[davo]

But if add in the seconds in line it looks very interesting!

UK-male (Charles) - male son (William)
Denmark- male (Frederik) - male brother* (Joachim)
Norway-male (Haakon) - female daughter (Ingrid)
Sweden-female (Victoria) - male brother* (Carl Phillip)
Belgium-male (Philippe) - female daughter (Elisabeth)
Netherlands-male (W-A) - female daughter (Catherine Amelia)
Spain-male (Felipe) - female sister* (Elena)
Monaco-male (Albert) - female sister* (Caroline)

We curently have three Queens Regnant
next generation we will have one.
the generation after that we are guaranteed three more (at least, what are the odds that the other four will not eldest/only daughters?)

 

[carlota]

in spain zapatero planed to eliminate the salic law. however... i don't think he will. the psoe of spain always talks so much but never does anything.....

 

[Meg]

All parties, also PP agree it is necessary changing the Spanish Constitution, but the process is very complicated.

 

[carlota]

Originally posted by Meg@May 30th, 2004 - 6:40 am
All parties, also PP agree it is necessary changing the Spanish Constitution, but the process is very complicated.

that's true. it's difficult and maybe also dangerous nowadays to change the spanish constitution.

 

[Julian]

People keep talking about Salic Law but there is no Salic Law in the Spanish constitution. There is male preferred for succession, but that's different from "Salic Law" which bars all females from ever succeeding. As Tiaraprin already pointed out, there's been reigning Spanish Queens in recent centuries (Isabella II) I don't know where Salic Law in fact still exists among reigning European monarchies except maybe in Liechtenstein. The rest is by age first or male first.

 

[grecka]

Children, if we look deeper into the work salic, we can see it rhymes with phallic, meaning penis, meaning that men feel threatened by powerful women, which means that they're chavinist mesoginists, which means we should drive them all into the desert and erect a fence around them so that they can't get out and spread their filth about the earth. Cheerio, Grecka

 

[soy]

I don`t know why,but I hope they'll have a handsome prince.

 

[timtonruben359]

Originally posted by tiaraprin@May 27th, 2004 - 10:38 pm

It seems most of the monarchies now are trying to remove the Salic Law-this should be interesting. I have read that King Karl Gustaf XVI is not a supporter of this--he doesn't wish his daughter to become Queen--not out of disrespect to her. I guess he thinks it is a man's job--I don't know.

Just a little off topic here, but King Carl of Sweden doesn't oppose the idea of women coming to the throne. The reason he was uncomfortable with the change in the was when Prince Carl Phillip, he second child and only son, was born he was given the title of Crown Prince as he was expected to succeeded his father. However, when Sweden changed its constitution, Prince Carl Philip was stripped of his title and it was given to Princess Victoria. The King feels that the constitutional change should have come into effect with Prince Carl Philip's children and not with his children. He has had a hard time excepting that his daughter is now heir and not his son.

 

[Ariel]

If Spain change its laws about sucession and it comes true that Felipe's ex fiancee's child is his, then she will become the next Queen of Spain and not Letizia's first child.

 

[MoonlightRhapsody]

Originally posted by Ariel@Aug 2nd, 2004 - 9:55 am
If Spain change its laws about sucession and it comes true that Felipe's ex fiancee's child is his, then she will become the next Queen of Spain and not Letizia's first child.

Althought the child, if confirmed, would be illegitimate? Hmm...I don't know about that...

Anyway, about the succession, the government can chose if they want the revision to take place with the next generation of royals or be retroactive (like Sweden's). Hmm...tough thing to get through, though...

 

[moosey60]

Illegitimate children do not go in the line of succession. I.e. King Albert of Belgium's illegitimate daughter Delphine(?) can't be queen.

 

[CathyEarnshaw]

Salic

[Spain does not have Salic law. Salic means MALES ONLY - Spain has male primogeniture which means sons before daughters, sisters before brothers. This is the same as Britain and Denmark.

 

[Josefine]

is there a special title for the new heir

 

[lula]

is there a special title for the new heir

The baby will be An Infante of Spain.

And two more things.
How well it has explained someone in Spain there is no Law Sálica, but a preference of the man on the woman, if they had only girls the major girl would reign.
And since I see that someone also has extracted this horrible piece of gossip am going to clarify something. The girl about whom Ariel speaks is not illegitimate, since she has and always there has had a father who recognized her since she was born and that he was on the verge of marrying her mother.
But how the people have bad intention it likes to invent these things that they forbid more than the truths, and how the mother was a girlfriend of the Prince they wants to be placed, when their relation was doing more than 4 years that it had ended and both had or had had other relations. The people are very wicked and they do not see that they can damage to a girl. If the girl did not have father I might understand that this rumor existed, but a father is that this girl always has had. (That is not the Prince).

 

[Josefine]

no soecial duke title or something like that

 

[Anna_R]

no soecial duke title or something like that

The Kings offer dukedoms for their children upon marriage. It was this way that Infanta Elena turned Duchess of Lugo and Infanta Cristina turned Duchess of Palma.

Before they were married they were only Infantas of Spain.

 

[Elsa M.]

Debate on the reform of the constitution

A girl is born. This thread is to debate on the change of the constitution required by the birth of a new Infanta of Spain.

 

[btsnyder]

It's funny to hear so many calling for a change in the various constitutions to allow the first born, whether male or female, to assume the throne. Does anyone see the irony in applying such a modern notion of equality (I've seen the term "in this day an age" mentioned a few times) applied to the intrinsicly un-modern idea of heriditary, dynastic rule? Why is the idea of discriminating against someone because of their sex wrong, but awarding someone power, influence, and often tax dollars, just because of the family they were born into, is OK, even revered?

Don't get me wrong, I love this site, love reading about my favorite royals, love history, but this is something that struck me. It seems inconsistent in some ways. Thoughts?

 

[Elsa M.]

http://es.news.yahoo.com/fot/ftxt/20051031033320.html

After the announcement of the pregnancy of the Princess, the minister of Justice, Juan Fernando Lopez Aguilar, assured that it was not necessary to undertake an urgent reform of the Constitution. The minister bet to make the changes at the end of the legislature.

 

[Aussie Princess]

Can I just ask, what is the law in Spain? is it like the British law, that girls can ascend the throne, but only after boys and are 'bumped down' the sucession line, cause I thought girls couldn't ascend the throne at all in Spain?

 

[xicamaluca]

Can I just ask, what is the law in Spain? is it like the British law, that girls can ascend the throne, but only after boys and are 'bumped down' the sucession line, cause I thought girls couldn't ascend the throne at all in Spain?

In Spain men have prefence over women to ascend the Throne. CP Felipe is the younguest child of the King, but he´s the heir. The called Sallic Law. So, i belive, that is similar to GB.