Danish Jewels: Ownership and Distribution

[muriel]

I hope its not owned by her, it is too substantial a tiara to leave the main line.

The DRF clearly are not too fussed about historic jewellery leaving the main line. After the 2 tiaras each going to Benedikte and Anne-Marie and 2 going to the wives of Joachim (so that is a total of 6 tiaras gone in the last 50 odd years), a further tiara has been gifted by Margarethe to Isabelle.

All of this mattered less when royals married other royals and incoming royal dowries replaced jewellery lost to outgoing royal dowries, but that is clearly not the case now. Hence, the DRF main line vault is a lot more sparse as it was under Queen Ingrid.

 

[tommy100]

Yes it may be a loss but it is indeed pretty much inkeeping with what the Danish Royals have done over the past few decades. Benedikte and Anne Marie where each given jewels which meant they left the main line, Margrethe could have 'learnt from that" when Joachim married but decided to gift Alexandra a tiara and appears to have done so again now with Marie.

 

[JR76]

Hence, the DRF main line vault is a lot more sparse as it was under Queen Ingrid.

Not really. While tiaras have left the family some have also been added -Queen Margrethe was gifted the Naasut and Queen Mary was gifted her wedding tiara, bought one at auction, pulled a one out of a corner of the Amalienborg , had the diamond bandeau created so the difference isn't that big really. To me the main difference is that some of the new ones are smaller than those who left the family.

 

[muriel]

Not really. While tiaras have left the family some have also been added -Queen Margrethe was gifted the Naasut and Queen Mary was gifted her wedding tiara, bought one at auction, pulled a one out of a corner of the Amalienborg , had the diamond bandeau created so the difference isn't that big really. To me the main difference is that some of the new ones are smaller than those who left the family.

Barring the bandeau created using the diamonds from Rosenberg, IMO, the "newer" tiaras are all pretty insubstantial relative to the lost tiaras (eg, the Edwardian spinel tiara bought at Bruun R for c€10,000, or the very inconsequential tiara given to Mary at her wedding). These newer tiaras may be suitable for distant royal cousins, but are really not worthy of use by a Queen or a Crown Princess, IMO.

 

[JR76]

These newer tiaras may be suitable for distant royal cousins, but are really not worthy of use by a Queen or a Crown Princess, IMO.

The Queen herself seems to be happy with them.

 

[Stefan]

Not really. While tiaras have left the family some have also been added -Queen Margrethe was gifted the Naasut and Queen Mary was gifted her wedding tiara, bought one at auction, pulled a one out of a corner of the Amalienborg , had the diamond bandeau created so the difference isn't that big really. To me the main difference is that some of the new ones are smaller than those who left the family.

A difference is also that the new tiaras have not the history of passing through the generations. Ok the stones of the bandeau have a long history,

 

[Stefan]

Barring the bandeau created using the diamonds from Rosenberg, IMO, the "newer" tiaras are all pretty insubstantial relative to the lost tiaras (eg, the Edwardian spinel tiara bought at Bruun R for c€10,000, or the very inconsequential tiara given to Mary at her wedding). These newer tiaras may be suitable for distant royal cousins, but are really not worthy of use by a Queen or a Crown Princess, IMO.

I would say that the Naassut tiara is also substantial.

 

[Marengo]

Queen Mary may be happy with her two tiaras with tiny stones, they must be more comfortable to wear. But they both are far inferior to whatever left the RF. It is up to the Danish RF of they want to continue this tradition of course. They are free to give the rest of their good jewels to Vincent and Josephine and replace these with crystal tiaras from Temu, if they so please. But it certainly is not an improvement.

The Nassut tiara is a nice piece of art and craftmanship but compared to the Khedive of Egypt or the Alexandrine drop tiara hardly an improvement and difficult to wear.

Let´s hope that at least Queen Alexandrine´s fringe tiara will find it´s way back in the future. It is a pity they did not have the means to buy back one of the sapphire tiaras.

But while losing so much jewels perhaps the Danish RF also has shown the way forward, with the long term loans.

 

[maria-olivia]

For Queen Mary her Eduardian Spinel tiara was bought at Bruun Rasmussen 10.000 DKK ?without no bids.
For Princess Marie in RJMB , a Poster confirm that the Dagmar tiara is not a loan anymore but it is hers.

 

[sophie25]

Queen Mary may be happy with her two tiaras with tiny stones, they must be more comfortable to wear. But they both are far inferior to whatever left the RF. It is up to the Danish RF of they want to continue this tradition of course. They are free to give the rest of their good jewels to Vincent and Josephine and replace these with crystal tiaras from Temu, if they so please. But it certainly is not an improvement.

The Nassut tiara is a nice piece of art and craftmanship but compared to the Khedive of Egypt or the Alexandrine drop tiara hardly an improvement and difficult to wear.

Let´s hope that at least Queen Alexandrine´s fringe tiara will find it´s way back in the future. It is a pity they did not have the means to buy back one of the sapphire tiaras.

But while losing so much jewels perhaps the Danish RF also has shown the way forward, with the long term loans.

Im hoping that Queen Anne Marie will return the Khedive of Egypt tiara to the DRF when she passes

 

[Hans-Rickard]

I don’t get why people are so surprised… A little bit of research and you’ll find out that this is the way it has always been done in the DRF, thanks to the royals personally owning their tiaras…

Yes things may change in the future but who would have the heart to put pressure on Margrethe, Benedikte and Anne-Marie, 3 national icons in Denmark, to give up the rights to what they personally own, just so Mary and Christians future wife could wear their jewels too ? The reality doesn’t work that way…

The truth is that Benedikte and Anne-Marie owns the tiaras they inherited from their mother upon her death in 2000… Being able to sell those in the future would provide financial security for their descendants… And Margrethe still owns the Nasuut Tiara, the Golden Poppies and the Baden Palmette… There is no guarantee either of these will go to Frederik. As the owner Margrethe is ofcourse free to leave them to whoever she wants….

And the ownership of the Dagmar Tiara has now been transfered to Marie (who also has the exclusive right to borrow the Maboussin Tiara and the rarely worn Flora Danica Tiara) and of the Alexandrine Diamond Drop Tiara have since long been to Alexandra…

If Frederik and Mary would have wanted to buy back older tiaras that had once been in the Danish RF, they has had plenty of chances to buy those tiaras that has been on auction over the years, but obviously they have not choosed to do so.

 

[tommy100]

Good points, I hadn't really thought about it but I guess Ingrid maybe didn't have tonnes of cash to leave her children to part of leaving her daughters tiaras was also knowing if the worst happened and it came to it they could be sold. Given all that Anne-Marie went through it probably wasn't seen as an impossibility.

 

[sophie25]

I don’t get why people are so surprised… A little bit of research and you’ll find out that this is the way it has always been done in the DRF, thanks to the royals personally owning their tiaras…

Yes things may change in the future but who would have the heart to put pressure on Margrethe, Benedikte and Anne-Marie, 3 national icons in Denmark, to give up the rights to what they personally own, just so Mary and Christians future wife could wear their jewels too ? The reality doesn’t work that way…

The truth is that Benedikte and Anne-Marie owns the tiaras they inherited from their mother upon her death in 2000… Being able to sell those in the future would provide financial security for their descendants… And Margrethe still owns the Nasuut Tiara, the Golden Poppies and the Baden Palmette… There is no guarantee either of these will go to Frederik. As the owner Margrethe is ofcourse free to leave them to whoever she wants….

And the ownership of the Dagmar Tiara has now been transfered to Marie (who also has the exclusive right to borrow the Maboussin Tiara and the rarely worn Flora Danica Tiara) and of the Alexandrine Diamond Drop Tiara have since long been to Alexandra…

If Frederik and Mary would have wanted to buy back older tiaras that had once been in the Danish RF, they has had plenty of chances to buy those tiaras that has been on auction over the years, but obviously they have not choosed to do so.

I doubt Anne Marie's children would ever need to sell her jewels for money, they all seem pretty well off. Benedikte I know less about.

 

[tommy100]

I think Anne Marie's sons have all married well helping them to be financially secure. The daughters maybe not so much? Either way I suspect Pavlos & MC would step in and buy any jewels any of Pavlos' siblings felt compelled by need to sell.

 

[muriel]

The Queen herself seems to be happy with them.

Mary did not really have much of a choice. The DRF are not particularly wealthy and I doubt she would have the cash to spend 300-400k on a tiara. In fact, for her c20 years as Crown Princess, Mary did not even have a proper diamond necklace to wear.

 

[Stefan]

Mary did not really have much of a choice. The DRF are not particularly wealthy and I doubt she would have the cash to spend 300-400k on a tiara. In fact, for her c20 years as Crown Princess, Mary did not even have a proper diamond necklace to wear.

Her Wedding tiara can also be worn as a necklace, Actually it looks much better as it, then as tiara. But she worn it only one time as necklace.

 

[Marengo]

But that is hardly a proper diamond necklace. The diamonds on that tiara-necklace are so small one needs a microscope to see them. Not fit for a Queen or even a crown princess.

 

[doro]

Im hoping that Queen Anne Marie will return the Khedive of Egypt tiara to the DRF when she passes

Hopefully, the tradition of female descendants of Queen Ingrid wearing the Khedive at their wedding days must continue

I think the Benedikte should return her Pearl and Star Tiara to the main line when she passes too.

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Hopefully, the tradition of female descendants of Queen Ingrid wearing the Khedive at their wedding days must continue

I think the Benedikte should return her Pearl and Star Tiara to the main line when she passes too.

Why return it, thought? The tiara has a significant monetary value attached to it. Should Princess Benedikte's descendants wish to part with it for money, then it's their right to do so. Not dissimilar to the Bourbon-Dos-Sicilias selling the Bourbon-Parma jewels, instead of handing them over to the Duke of Parma.
Of course, Princess Benedikte (and Queen Anne-Marie for that matter) can leave her mother's tiara to the main branch of the Danish royal family, but she's in no way obliged to to, especially if that would deprive her children of a valuable asset. Let's not forget that it's their family history as well.
And do we even know if Queen Mary wants the pearl spike and star tiara anyway? Queen Ingrid herself didn't care much about it and only wore it on a handful of occasions.

 

[W.Y.CII]

this.

As much as I love seeing major, substantial jewels being worn, I just hate the idea of non-heir/mainline children should return the jewellery they rightfully inherited/received to the mainline. The owner decide to pass her jewellery to the younger children, then they probably expect it's very possible it will go outside the mainline. To me this narrative is just suggesting the younger and non-heir children only deserve to keep something "insignificant and unimportant" as the "significant and important" stuff should be kept in mainline.

If Benedikte and Anne Marie (or even Marie if she does own the Dagmar floral) decides to give the jewellery they inherited/received to the mainline, it's just them being nice and generous. There's no obligation.

 

[pkl]

this.

As much as I love seeing major, substantial jewels being worn, I just hate the idea of non-heir/mainline children should return the jewellery they rightfully inherited/received to the mainline. The owner decide to pass her jewellery to the younger children, then they probably expect it's very possible it will go outside the mainline. To me this narrative is just suggesting the younger and non-heir children only deserve to keep something "insignificant and unimportant" as the "significant and important" stuff should be kept in mainline.

If Benedikte and Anne Marie (or even Marie if she does own the Dagmar floral) decides to give the jewellery they inherited/received to the mainline, it's just them being nice and generous. There's no obligation.

I agree with you. This is just what happened in Norway - Princess Ragnhild's heirs did. They gave a tiara to the mainline (which never was in the mainline anyways) and was nice and generous. Of course this family don't need money for generations (billionaires), but they could have kept it as a family heirloom.

In fact the Danes have more than enough of jewellery. But the system of entailed foundation and crown jewellery limits the use very much. The first limit the use to the queen and the crown jewellery the same, but also she can not bring a single piece outside the country. Which I think is a problem bigger than losing a tiara. The only tiara I wish they kept for the mainline is the Khedive tiara. The Dagmar, Star and pearl and the Alexandrine drop are not very impressive.

 

[muriel]

this.

As much as I love seeing major, substantial jewels being worn, I just hate the idea of non-heir/mainline children should return the jewellery they rightfully inherited/received to the mainline. The owner decide to pass her jewellery to the younger children, then they probably expect it's very possible it will go outside the mainline. To me this narrative is just suggesting the younger and non-heir children only deserve to keep something "insignificant and unimportant" as the "significant and important" stuff should be kept in mainline.

If Benedikte and Anne Marie (or even Marie if she does own the Dagmar floral) decides to give the jewellery they inherited/received to the mainline, it's just them being nice and generous. There's no obligation.

If younger, non-main line children have been gifted items of jewellery, then they have no obligation to return them to the main line at the end of their lives. This appears to be the model most royal families used, other than the NRF, where the jewellery has either returned (Ragnhild) or is expected to return (Astrid).

However, it might be reasonable to expect that when non-main line jewellery of royal lineage is to be potentially disposed off, it is first offered to the main line in a potentially private transaction. The issue potentially arises when the jewellery will sell for a lot more at auction than it would privately.

 

[W.Y.CII]

However, it might be reasonable to expect that when non-main line jewellery of royal lineage is to be potentially disposed off, it is first offered to the main line in a potentially private transaction. The issue potentially arises when the jewellery will sell for a lot more at auction than it would privately.

But then it's also reasonable for them to put it on auction for more money No I am not here to suggest how the heirloom in non mainline should be handled. My thought is, it's now their personal property so they can do whatever they want. No obligation, no right and wrong.

Another thing is we probably never know if the mainline has been offered unless the deal is done. Maybe the jewellery we saw in auction has been already privately offered to the mainline but just failed to strike a deal. We never know it if the offer has been rejected or failed.

Anyway I agree that would be the best scenario, non mainline and mainline come to an agreement and both get what they want (and we have more tiaras and jewelleries to see ).

 

[maria-olivia]

I think Queen Ingrid gave her daughters two tiaras because she tought about royal weddings to come whose brides would bring jewels as she did with the Swedish jewels from her Mother.

 

[doro]

Another jewel i'd like to see back to the main line would Queen Alexandrine Fringe, currently with Count Ingolf.

 

[muriel]

Another jewel i'd like to see back to the main line would Queen Alexandrine Fringe, currently with Count Ingolf.

Wouldn't we all. But how realistic is it that it returns to the main line?

The one I thought could return but clearly did not was Thyra's sapphire tiara last owned by Princess Elisabeth who passed away a few years ago.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

We’ll see what happens…. Ingolf has no children and he is the one from the Rosenborg-line who has always been by far closest to the main line DRF… So i wouldn’t rule out that he leaves some of his jewellery to them…

Though under all circumstances i fully expect he will allow his wife Countess Sussie to continue to wear the jewellery for the rest of HER life, should he die before her… And as he is 10 years older than her (they turn 86 and 76 next month) it is not an unthinkable scenario…

 

[pkl]

We’ll see what happens…. Ingolf has no children and he is the one from the Rosenborg-line who has always been by far closest to the main line DRF… So i wouldn’t rule out that he leaves some of his jewellery to them…

Though under all circumstances i fully expect he will allow his wife Countess Sussie to continue to wear the jewellery for the rest of HER life, should he die before her… And as he is 10 years older than her (they turn 86 and 76 next month) it is not an unthinkable scenario…

Another fact is that he has seen what happened to the jewellery of his brother and sister. So that could also be a factor in which he will or could leave the tiara and other jewellery to the mainline. Also he can possibly will it to the museum. There are jewellery from Princess Elisabeth in the museum. I don't know if the jewellery there are accessible to the Queen.

 

[Stefan]

We’ll see what happens…. Ingolf has no children and he is the one from the Rosenborg-line who has always been by far closest to the main line DRF… So i wouldn’t rule out that he leaves some of his jewellery to them…

But then Princess Elisabeth also had no children and we have seen what happened with her Jewels.
Perhaps he could leave the fringe tiara to the fiekomiss with that obligation that Countess Susie can use for her lifetime

 

[Stefan]

It will be interesting to see what happens with Queen Margrethe's private owned Jewels. So far she has gifted two tiaras to Joachim's line n(one to Alexandra and one to Marie) but none comparabel to Frederik's line, except the daisy bandeau to Isabgella and the turquiose Jewels to Mary.