CP couples - who made the most of it?

[Duke of Marmalade]

After some years have passed, I was wondering what you guys think about which CP couple has made the most of their role after marriage. Who has lived up to the expectations and who didn't? Who was able to make the monarchy more popular and who failed? Who has impressed you and who left you disappointed?

Mette Marit & Haakon
Maxima & Willem Alexander
Mary & Fred
Letizia & Felipe


Would be interesting to know what you think. I personally am most impressed with Mette Marit and Haakon. MM had the worst imaginable background or start you can imagine and it's amazing what she learned and how she was able to develop. It took her some time but today I'd say that she is a great CP and I am most impressed of what she is capable of. Plus, MM & Haakon are a wonderful and relaxed couple. I am sure they will be very successfull as Kings of Norway. Well done!

 

[crisiñaki]

Maxima and Willem-Alexander are by far the best CP couple IMO, they both work hard, represent very strong and important causes (microcredits and water management) and they are liked a lot

Fred & Mary: they adore each other, but Mary does more work than Fred, I mean, she's like everywhere at once doing solo acts and such, while we see Fred a lot less, I like them both a lot but I would like to see Fred working more

Mette Marit & Haakon: she has improved so much, from a shady past to the CP she's today, she still has a lot of work to do but it's great; Haakon seems to be a little whipped though and that doesn't help his future King image much

Felipe & Letizia: well, she doesn't have an agenda of her own, we only see her alongside Felipe, her sisters-in-law do the acts that should be presided by her; I used to like Felipe when he was single, now I don't like him that much and I don't like them as a couple: Letizia supposedly was a XXI century woman with strong beliefs and a career and now she hides behind pregnancies and lactancy, I don't like them together, 'cuz I don't think they win much together, they would do much better separately

(Countdown to attack 5...4...3...2...1...
Starts ducking flying objects)

 

[Regina]

Maxima and Willem-Alexander are by far the best CP couple IMO, they both work hard, represent very strong and important causes (microcredits and water management) and they are liked a lot

I agree. In fact, Máxima and William Alexander are working a lot not only for the important causes you mentioned but also (and especially) for the good of The Netherlands. They work as a Team.

About The Dane Couple: I think Mary tries her best in all occasions and I love the elegant way she presents herself. Frederik doesn't work so much as Mary.

Mette marit & Haakon: they are very in love. Everytime I see them I think how happy they are together. About work, I don't see them so professional as the Dutch Royal Couple.

Felipe & Letizia: well, she doesn't have an agenda of her own, we only see her alongside Felipe, her sisters-in-law do the acts that should be presided by her; I used to like Felipe when he was single, now I don't like him that much and I don't like them as a couple: Letizia supposedly was a XXI century woman with strong beliefs and a career and now she hides behind pregnancies and lactancy, I don't like them together, 'cuz I don't think they win much together, they would do much better separately

I agree 100% with you. Letizia was an independent and hard working woman before she met her prince. She was a graduated and someone who used to talk with many people while she was a journalist. I always saw her as a very well prepared woman for this role.
I wish she could act by her own sometimes. I know that Spanish Royal House id different from the other Royal Houses and we can't compare different things, but I think Letizia could do so much more, especially because she is a smart and talented woman.

(Countdown to attack 5...4...3...2...1...
Starts ducking flying objects)

hehe!

 

[Henri M.]

In my opinion The Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall make the most of it. Knowing their complicated history it is amazing how they managed it to turn out as a most wonderful royal team.

The Prince of Orange and Princess Máxima are a winning combination. Their approval rating is not only sky high in the Netherlands, I think that from all 'homelands' the Orange couple has the highest rating under the own population.

The Duke and Duchess of Brabant are a complicated couple. Prince Philippe scores by far the lowest rates in popularity and approval. His spouse, Princess Mathilde, is the most popular member of the Belgian Royal House, after The King. But this popularity is not general: it is stronger in the french-speaking part while the Dutch-speaking Belgians (2/3 of the population) feel this born Belgian and future Queen could make much more of it, for sure in comparison with Argentinean-born Princess Máxima who has an amazing fluent Dutch speak (with an accent and little errors, but still...)

The Prince and Princess of Asturias are a real team. I have seen a lot of posters complaining about the lack of an own agenda for the Princess. I don't see the problem. She is only a Princess of Asturias because she is the Prince's spouse. If she wants to join him, support him and come out in the public as one couple, that is a choice which is as justified as the choice of the Oranges to have almost two total different agendas.

The Crown Prince and -Princess of Norway have overcome many diffuculties and come forward as a most smooth operating couple. Yet I still have the feeling that Crown Princess Mette Marit is not feeling like a fish in the water, something what Máxima and Camilla radiates the most. The last two act like they have been destined to be a royal, if you know what I mean. Crown Princess Mette Marit sometimes comes over as a rabbit which is staring into the headlights of a fast approaching car.

The Crown Prince and -Princess of Denmark. Tja. In my most humble and very personal opinion both of them have somewhat of an imago problem. Prince Frederik does not radiate that he is the Heir to Europe's eldest royal family. He looks like he would easily swap for the principality of Monaco. I might be totally wrong, but his brother Prince Joachim has always made a more solid impression on me. The Crown Princess fits seamless into her spouse's profile: Hobart or Copenhagen? Ach ja. As long as there is a Prada shoe store in Main Street.... Once again: this is the impression they make on me.

The Sovereign Prince of Monaco.... I refrain from comment.

From all Heirs, the Prince of Wales and the Prince of Orange both have the ability to have a great accessibility for the public. Their interaction with the men in the street is fantastic. But also both men always and ever remember they are The Prince of Wales and The Prince of Orange. Both are immensely proud on their illustrious dynasties. Both men look vast determined to maintain the glory of their Houses and hand it over to Prince William respectively to Princess Catharina-Amalia. It shows in all. The ancient motto of the Orange-Nassaus is Je Maintiendrai (I will maintain). That shows. Despite the Prince's goodnatured personality there is a strong person in him, with the legendaric genetic Orange stubborness. I see the same characteristic in the Prince of Wales.

The Prince of Asturias, Heir to the amazing dynasty of the Bourbons, seem not to be very devoted to his family's heritage. I might be completely wrong, but he simply does not give that impression.

 

[ZandraRae]

I have one question: Why were Camilla and Charles, Phillipe and Mathilde left off of the list? But otherwise, I too think Camilla and Charles and Willem Alexander and Maxima have done the most outstanding job of being a Crown Princely Couple.

 

[Aurora810]

I am also wondering why the list is incomplete? Also some of the questions like who has disappointed and who hasn't lived up to expectations are just silly. Some have been married longer than others but still none are that incredibly far into their marriages to be calling them a disappointment thus far. And I can't even begin to speculate who has made their monarchy more popular based on their marriage.

Personally, I wouldn't be able to choose. I like them all and they all seem to impress me at different times. Not to mention that I tend to believe that they all have their own agenda/purpose for their seperate monarchies.

 

[Aurora810]

The Crown Prince and -Princess of Denmark. Tja. In my most humble and very personal opinion both of them have somewhat of an imago problem. Prince Frederik does not radiate that he is the Heir to Europe's eldest royal family. He looks like he would easily swap for the principality of Monaco. I might be totally wrong, but his brother Prince Joachim has always made a more solid impression on me. The Crown Princess fits seamless into her spouse's profile: Hobart or Copenhagen? Ach ja. As long as there is a Prada shoe store in Main Street.... Once again: this is the impression they make on me.

The Prince of Asturias, Heir to the amazing dynasty of the Bourbons, seem not to be very devoted to his family's heritage. I might be completely wrong, but he simply does not give that impression.

As for the CP's of Denmark I go back and forth on what I think of them. But I do share your opinion concerning Joachim. I have seen both Joachim and Frederik be interviewed and I was terribly disappointed in Frederik. Joachim came off as more mature and more polished.

As for the Prince of Asturias, I'm curious about your opinion, Henri. Why do you tend to think he's not devoted to his family's heritage?

 

[wymanda]

Why are Charles & Camilla not included?

 

[ysbel]

Its too bad we can't rank the couples.

I think Willem-Alexander and Maxima have made the most of their position because they were allowed to. It appears that the position of the monarch in the Netherlands allows for the heirs to take on serious involvement concerning world issues - a freedom that doesn't appear to be allowed in other monarchies.

I think Felipe and Letizia have made the most of the position that they were allowed but they have not been allowed too much - especially Letizia.

In second place I would put Frederik and Mary. I know they are superficial but their combination seems to work as a fantastic image for Denmark and they are very appealing.

Third place Felipe and Letizia because they have incredible intelligence and abilities and are doing the best they can under the circumstances. It is their circumstances more than their abilities that put them in third place in my opinion.

Fourth place, Mette-Marit and Haakon. I think that Mette-Marit has indeed come a long way but she started at a really low place to begin with and had a lot of catching up to do. She doesn't have the confidence that the other crown princesses do, so I don't think she has hit her stride yet. She still seems uncomfortable in her role which can be an obstacle to really making the most of her position. I think Haakon's first priority is her happiness which it should be but it distracts them from making the most of their position in my opinion.

 

[Elspeth]

Why are Charles & Camilla not included?

Possibly because they haven't been married all that long. The OP said "after several years..." which doesn't explain the omission of Philippe and Mathilde or Naruhito and Masako but might explain the omission of Charles and Camilla.

 

[royaltywatcher]

Charles and Camilla -- it's a shame about their ugly beginnings, they make a really great couple, and I think they would have been wonderful had they started the right way. They may still be ok, and it's nice to see a man that really loves a woman for who she is and not how young and pretty she is. And Camilla is radiant, and that's fun to watch.

Mary and Frederick -- unbearably lightweight, neither seems very bright or serious, but she does have great legs and sometimes I like her clothes.

Mathilde and Philippe -- she is lovely, and a real princess, he is improving with age.

Felipe and Letizia -- an interesting couple, both starkly modern in style (no fussy hats, etc., and more serious types of duties) and at the same time backward (Letizia does seem to be playing an exaggerated old-fashioned supporting wife role, at odds with her background). But I don't get any sense that it makes her unhappy, she seems more in love now than she was when she got married, as does he, and that's nice to watch.

The CP Belgium and Norway -- don't really follow them.

 

[Drottning]

Felipe and Letizia-I would have to say that this is the real team of all the crown couples. When I see pictures of them, the chemistry they share towards each other coupled with their seriousness towards the duties they both undertake is amazing. I would love to see her, though, out and about more often but I think she is just as happy being with Felipe. And I don't blame her. He's a hunk!!!

Mary and Frederik-She works more than he does. I think he enjoys more the duties of being Mr. Mom than having to go and do his royal duties. Perhaps if they both just did them together instead of her having to do the majority of them, I would rate them higher. Anyways, I think people enjoy seeing the pretty face more than a baby face And I love her clothes. I wish I had her wardrobe!!!

Maxima and Willem Alexander-Nothing critical I can say about them. They looks like loads of fun to be with even when it involves a boring royal duty!

Haakon and Mette-Marit-The Crown Princess still looks a bit nervous when she does her duties. But I do like them and wish them well.

Mathilde and Philippe-Ehhh....he is so boring. Nah I don't care too much for him. She, on the other hand, carries herself with such dignity and her poise is so regal. Love her, love her, love her!

 

[Aurora810]

Possibly because they haven't been married all that long. The OP said "after several years..." which doesn't explain the omission of Philippe and Mathilde or Naruhito and Masako but might explain the omission of Charles and Camilla.

Apparently being married for only 3 years like Felipe & Letizia and Fred & Mary, is counted as several years nowadays. But being married for only 2 years is just not enough, sorry Charles and Camilla.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to make a suggestion but it sounds really weird to me that the title of this thread is in past tense. These couples are current crown princely couples, so maybe saying "who is making the most of it?" seems to sound better. Or at least to me!

 

[HRHofNothing]

My long winded views on the topic....

This is my personal take on all of the couples mentioned here and some which are not even mentioned as well:

The Netherlands: The best working couple. They have their own separate agendas while complementing each other and the sovereign when required. They seem to work really well together.

The United Kingdom: Camilla has had to work twice as hard as most other heiresses to prove herself worthy. No matter what you think of the woman and her role in Charles and Diana’s marriage, she has worked really hard to get where she is to. As a plus, it looks that she makes Charles really happy.

Norway: No matter what she does, Norway (and Sonja) will never let Mette-Marit forget her past. So she deserves bonus points for just trying. Haakon is, I agree whipped, but in a strange way it seems to work out in the end.

Belgium: I, for one, do not understand why Philippe is so unpopular. His wife seems to have her act together and is contributing positively so that is a plus. Realistically, I don’t think there will be a Belgium for too much longer so there is very limited that they can do to begin with.

Spain: Letizia seems to have mastered the role of a 16th century Queen-Consort to perfection. The woman is there to support her husband without having a will of her own. Still, in a strange way it seems to be working for Spain.

Sweden: Technically not in this discussion, since they are not a married couple, but I have a strong suspicion that Victoria is waiting for someone better to come along. News Flash: Time is running out.

Japan: What a waste! Of all the Crown Princes, Naurhito made the most beneficial intellectual match. She could have done so much for Japan, but apparently they want a stuffed mammal with reproductive capabilities for their empresses. Heck, even the arch-conservative Muslim consorts in Jordan, Bahrain and Dubai seem to be able to do much more than her.

Denmark: One of the prettiest Crown Princely couples, but they at least act like they have nothing in their collective heads. Even the most ardent of Fred supporters have to concede that he is simply LAZY. Mary, with her somewhat limited capabilities is trying, but there is only so much she can do.

Monaco: I don’t even know where to begin…

 

[Avalon]

It's a shame Charles and Camilla are not included, since I think they really did the most of it. But here we go:

1) The Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cronwall - given the hard begining, both had to work very hard separately, but especially as a team. All of their engagements are carried out in a perfect way. Camilla does a perfect job of bringing attention to all of her charities, yet always making sure it's her husband (and the Heir), who is in the centre of attention.

2) The Prince and Princess of Oragne - both are doing tremendous job and both are engaged with works they think are important.

3) The Princes of Asturias - I know Letizia receives her share of critisism for not doing many solo engagements. But that's the whole concept of the Monarchy (imo) - doing a team work, with the heir more in the spotlight (much like in the case of Charles & Camilla).

4) Crown Prince Haakon and Crown Princess Mette-Marit - like Charles & Camilla, they had a hard begining, with everything against him. And yet they managed to go on, with dignity.

5) Crown Prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary - I think Mary tries very hard and does a formidable job as a Consrot. But... I agree with Henri M. on his points about the couple.

6) The Duke and Duchess of Brabant - Mathilde was probably the best choice Philippe could ever make, and in a way, his only chance. I like her work with her charities and patronages. I think Philippe could do more.

7) Crown Prince Naruhito and Crown Princess Masako - what a pity and what a waste! Masako could do so much for Japan, but instead...

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

A clarification

Sorry to have caused some confusion - this poll was actually meant to be based on the ZDF programme "Koenigskinder" that focuses on the second generation incl. Victoria and William, but I left them out as they are not married. I did not mention as I thought some don't know what I am talking about and besides, the docu has not finished yet.

However, if I had foreseen some reactions, I had included more couples, C & C of course and the Dukes of Brabant, but again I wanted to focus on "the big 4" that are subject of the documentary and more or less the main focus of the royal media coverage in many countries as they are young families with children from the most popular monarchies.

So no offence to leave out anyone : - )

Hope that's a bit clearer now.

And thanks for your posts by the way, very interesting opinions!

 

[Penny Lane]

It's hard to compare them because they are all different and in different situations.

Maxima and Williem-Alexander are the most most dynamic couple and have the most charisma but they have much working in their favor,their own personalities to start with and their work together and seperately keep them front and center.They re also give more responsabilities and allowed to grow into their roles as Queen and King before the actually take them on and then there is the Queen herself who dose not seem to overwhelm her children and daughter's-in-law with her postion or her personality she seen realaxed and easy-going.

Fred and Mary- I think Fred has had to contend with a mother with a very strong personality of her own and a system that has not allowed him to take on very much to help him grow into that role and his personality is maybe not as dynamic as Williem's.Mary reminds me of Princess Diana,Princess Grace and the late Queen Mother ,Elizabeth of England.She is the one who has the precence,she's photogenic,she has charisma ,she's a loving mother ,she has her own agenda .All these women overshadowed their husbands in one way or another,although Prince Ranier was a force in his own right and Prince Charles is well ready to be King they still had wives who outshined them.I think Fred may well surprise us and come into his own around middle-age when he can really feel the role of King for himself.He's not King yet and maybe he is the type who must actually take the role on first before he shows what he can do.

Letiza and Felipe and MM and Haakon-I think it's hard to throw Letiza and MM in with the others because these two women have to hold back somewhat because they cannot outshine their mothers-in-law who are not reigning Queen's but Queen Consorts.If they seemd more out there then Queen Sofia and Queen Sonja I think there would a backlash over that as well.I think MM of course has had other things to overcome I think Like Prince Fredrik she may come into her own later on closer to middle age.Letiza has had that independent life and may carve out her own role later on when it's time or she will continue to the be more the supportive Consort and concentrate more on her family or find as good mix of both.

Masako-too sad ,so much potential and promise so little respect for her gifts

Duchess of Cornwall-Well she's had a lifetime of knowing what Charles wants and she knows how how much of a public role she is comfortable with herself-it seems to work for both of them.

Mathhilde and Philippe -they are very much like The Queen Mother and The King-she seems to have the grace and the ability to handle the public and private roles and he seems to need her to do that.

 

[Marengo]

As the title is ´who made the most of it´ I will focus on just that.

IMHO Willem-Alexander and his wife Maxima are ranking no. 1 here, they seem to have taken the cup and are drinking it completely. There seems to be a constructive line in what the two are doing too, clearly heading towards a goal that will probably not take too long for them to get there (The enthronement of Willem IV). Both of them were of course guided and received enough space to get involved in issues that are closest to their own field of interest and that are still very relevant in todays society. Added to that Queen Beatrix, perhaps due to her widowhood, seems to ´use´ them more often then other Kings do their eldest child, for example Maxima en WA are escorting HM during state visits out side Europe, which is not done by any other CP-ly couple AFAIK.

For me Felipe personally ranks no 2, but his wife certainly does not. As others said, she still has very little duties of her own. We have to keep in mind that this might not be what she liks herself, but that it is guided by the court, due to the sensitivity of her marriage to the Crown Prince. Apart or together the two certainly have a lot of things on their hands, IMHO focussing on Spanish relations abroad, esp. with Latin America and on Spanish society itself, not so much on international issues like watermanagment, etc like the Dutch have.

The Danish Crown-princely couple seems to be a bit out of balance too. I agree that it seems that Mary is the one with more engagements, but to be honest I wouldn´t know hoiw many engagements Frederik has. A man onlone, wearing a grey suit, is simply not noticed around these forums and even in the press. With Mary I think it is time for her to start to focus more on fewer fields of interest, where she can get more passionate about and more involved in. The present way (she is already a patron of a zillion organisations) it seems more cosmetic than anything else. Note that this is all policy of the Danish court, I don´t think that Mary has a large vote in this.

As for the Norwegians. The country is smaller, so there is less to do for them. The things they do are all in a very down-to-earth way, much in line with the character of the Norwegian monarchy since it started in 1904. Still I think that esp. Mette-Marit could change the way she works a bit, it seems rather inconsistant, just an opening here, an exhibition there etc. My advice would be to focus more on a few topics, get deeper involved with it, which doesn´t mean to leave the rest of coure. Also, to enhance the profile of herself and of the Norwegian monarchy I think it would be good if she and Haakon would become more deeply involved with some kind of international organisation, pref. related to the UN.

 

[MissSaga]

In second place I would put Frederik and Mary. I know they are superficial but their combination seems to work as a fantastic image for Denmark and they are very appealing.

I agree. Mary and Frederik lived up to the expectations that were. They did very good, especially Mary.

But Willem-Alexander and Maxima win. Letizia and felipe disappointed me in many ways.

 

[Larzen]

Marengo usually I agree fully with you but not on this. They are not the Crown Prince (ss) of the UN, the are Heriess to the thrones of Norway, Denmark, Netherlands and Spain. IMo it is wrong if they spend more time in NY or wherever shaking hands with the "important" and famous than with regular people in their own countries. To take "my example" sometimes I even feel Haakon is *to* involved with the UNDP, just theese last two years he has made many trips abroad (field visits, NY, YGL) with UNDP as a (related) topic and one more in the planning, pluss visitng schools in all the 19 countys talking about how to try and reach the UNDP goals on a local level Pluss several duties i Norway that is somehow related to the UNDP. It goes on a expense of something and that is "normal visits" in Norway.

The royals represent all the people in the country and thus they need to cover a vide specter of different tasks, so Mary has " gazillion" patronages, well people in Denmark has a Gazillion different interests. Should she just represent those who are interested in Fashion and kidney desease? IMO it is more important to visit the different parts of their own country, also places which is sparsely populated, un-glam and might not be able to host conference or events that is normally attended by royals, not just beeing in the large cities or flying of to "important" confrences abroad which has little or no relevance for "normal" people

Of course it is nice for them if they can have a special field or two that they take a deeper interest in, and the UN sure sounds impressive and nice compared to visiting a local agriculture fair in a town of 300 people, but it should not go so much on the expense of the work in their country.

 

[Marengo]

After I finished my post I already feared that I would leave the impression that crown princes(ses) should focus on a few topics and stay away from the others. This was actually not what I had in mind. They should of course cover a variety of topics, but it wouldn´t hurt for them to get extra involved in topics that they are most interested in. As the royal business is usually a family businesses there are enough members of the family to make sure that most parts of society are covered. IMHO it enhances the credibility of a Prince(ss) and it generates more lasting attention for the causes. For example almost all Dutchman know about microcredits due to Maxima while not many will remember that she baptised a ship once. Apart from the upper advantage it must be more satisfying for the princes(ses) to have something where they can focus upon instead of all those loose ends.

The UN/international involvement was the second doubt you had. I am in full agreement with you on that, it should not come at the expense of their own country. I think that when a balance is found this will not be a problem and many of the international causes are related to the home country as well. The Prince of Orange involved in watermanagment is not too surprising considering from what country he is, neither is Maxima´s involvement in micro credits as The Netherlands is the country that spends most money on foreign aid per inhabitant. She now also involved with Microcredits within the Netherlands, so domestic and UN-involvement combined. Furthermore ´working´ on such an international stage is enhancing their own knowledge, profile and even the reputation of the home country. As I said before, there should be a balance, it isn´t disirable that a Crown Prince spends most time abroad of course.

 

[Larzen]

The Netherlands is the country that spends most money on foreign aid per inhabitant. She now also involved with Microcredits within the Netherlands, so domestic and UN-involvement combined.

Mwhaaa I thought this was Norway
Well I think we agree, esp when the UN causes can be brought home and "down to earth" in the home countries like Maxima and Haakon do on a level were the average person can realted to it. My main point is that it is more important to visit all the parts of the country and meet people who might not be in the "internatonal high flying stage" but actually contrbute to the running of the country, even if is not in a spectacular way. With some royals I feel they are very centralised to the capital and to beeing abroad which is not desirable IMO. I feel some are so interested in creating an international and "important" profile they forget who make it possible for them to be there in the first place

and you say an Un work makes more of an impact, for who? for the people who met Maxima when she christened their ship? Or for people who spent their life dedicating them selves to beeing a nurse who got some audience or a meeting with some royal? And sure Maxima has a higher international profile in the Netherlands, but does she have a higher international profile world wide since beeing more involved with microcredit? She is no Muhammad Yunus presisly.

And I agree that for royals just doing 100 unrelated events and cut 50 ribbons a year is not so fulfilling so indeed having some focus area Im sure must be gratifying for them, that we agree on, but still they represent a country with many interests which must also be covered.

 

[Regina]

Marengo usually I agree fully with you but not on this. They are not the Crown Prince (ss) of the UN, the are Heriess to the thrones of Norway, Denmark, Netherlands and Spain. IMo it is wrong if they spend more time in NY or wherever shaking hands with the "important" and famous than with regular people in their own countries.

I agree with Larzen in this point. I respect and admire the work some Crown Princes (ss) develop around the Globe but I think that first of all should their own country. They are not UN executives, and although is good to see them involved with noble causes, they exist as Crown heirs to work for the interests of their own country. I know Netherland, Norway or Sweden are rich countries, they don't many poors, but surely they have important areas that could be improved, and in my opinion the crown princes (ss) should be focused on that.

 

[Marengo]

Mwhaaa I thought this was Norway
Well I think we agree, esp when the UN causes can be brought home and "down to earth" in the home countries like Maxima and Haakon do on a level were the average person can realted to it. My main point is that it is more important to visit all the parts of the country and meet people who might not be in the "internatonal high flying stage" but actually contrbute to the running of the country, even if is not in a spectacular way. With some royals I feel they are very centralised to the capital and to beeing abroad which is not desirable IMO. I feel some are so interested in creating an international and "important" profile they forget who make it possible for them to be there in the first place

and you say an Un work makes more of an impact, for who? for the people who met Maxima when she christened their ship? Or for people who spent their life dedicating them selves to beeing a nurse who got some audience or a meeting with some royal? And sure Maxima has a higher international profile in the Netherlands, but does she have a higher international profile world wide since beeing more involved with microcredit? She is no Muhammad Yunus presisly.

And I agree that for royals just doing 100 unrelated events and cut 50 ribbons a year is not so fulfilling so indeed having some focus area Im sure must be gratifying for them, that we agree on, but still they represent a country with many interests which must also be covered.

I understand what you mean. All these highbrow things might be interesting on the resumee but have very little impact in real life, while more ´common´ visits to a cow-market might be making the day of several involved members of the public. I think the two walk hand in hand. For example Mette-Marit seems to have lots of spare time (or time that she isnt out with the public, working moms don t have a lot of spare time in general ), so why n ot still visit the cow markets, fancy fairs etc but add a little extra by an ambassadorship to the UN, raising awareness in your own country for a certain cause abroad and raising goodwill towards your country abroad.

It also depends on what in your opinion is how they serve the country best. IMHO the Queen, Crownprincely couple etc. don´t have to show up at every opening, fancy fair etc that is around. Mayors, ministers etc. can do the job to. A royal visit should be something exceptional, marking the specialness of the occassion. Sometimes I have the feeling that the public just sees them as well-dressed clowns (note that in Laurentiens case we can leave the well-dressed away). They are putting their mobile phones with camera in the faces of the royals! When I see Maxima jumping up and down on Queensday for games suitable for children o drunk people I wonder if they don´t lower themselves to much to do what the public wishes...

On a sidenote: the house of Orange under Prince Bernhard and Queen Beatrix is carefully spinning its web/network of friends in high places. Personally I think that the UN/EU jobs of the RF are part of this too. HM is keen to keep the royal influence as large as possible. If this is a very desirable thing is another matter, but IMHO that is certainly what they are doing. So though Maxima is no Mohammed Yunus, she knows Mr. Yunus, they befriended Kofi Annan etc. Good for the dynasty probably and consequently good for the country too, or at least not harmfull

 

[Marengo]

I agree with Larzen in this point. I respect and admire the work some Crown Princes (ss) develop around the Globe but I think that first of all should their own country. They are not UN executives, and although is good to see them involved with noble causes, they exist as Crown heirs to work for the interests of their own country. I know Netherland, Norway or Sweden are rich countries, they don't many poors, but surely they have important areas that could be improved, and in my opinion the crown princes (ss) should be focused on that.

well, I am not in disagreement with this, the royals first responsibility is their own country of course. But working in other countries can be for the good for your own country to of course. IMHO they walk hand in hand and complete- instead of excluding each other.

 

[ysbel]

I think once the royals establish themselves in their own country, its a natural extension to spread their sphere of influence to the international arena. And while we're not forgetting the important of the housewife who meets her Crown Prince and Crown Princess on a local royal walkabout, I hope that pride in one's own ordinary people doesn't turn into a reverse snobbishism against those that dedicate their time and effort to international causes and organizations like the U.N. These people are important too and they may be working on something important that parallels what a Crown Prince couple is attempting to accomplish within their own country. So by supporting an international effort, a Crown Prince couple can expand on and enhance on their work at home.

But the royals can't do everything, that's why I agree with Marengo that a focus on a few charities provides the best effectiveness and the optimal division of labour between the royals in a royal family ensures that all the important causes get coverage.

 

[Larzen]

I understand what you mean. All these highbrow things might be interesting on the resumee but have very little impact in real life, while more ´common´ visits to a cow-market might be making the day of several involved members of the public. I think the two walk hand in hand. For example Mette-Marit seems to have lots of spare time (or time that she isnt out with the public, working moms don t have a lot of spare time in general ), so why n ot still visit the cow markets, fancy fairs etc but add a little extra by an ambassadorship to the UN, raising awareness in your own country for a certain cause abroad and raising goodwill towards your country abroad.

It also depends on what in your opinion is how they serve the country best. IMHO the Queen, Crownprincely couple etc. don´t have to show up at every opening, fancy fair etc that is around. Mayors, ministers etc. can do the job to. A royal visit should be something exceptional, marking the specialness of the occassion. Sometimes I have the feeling that the public just sees them as well-dressed clowns (note that in Laurentiens case we can leave the well-dressed away). They are putting their mobile phones with camera in the faces of the royals! When I see Maxima jumping up and down on Queensday for games suitable for children o drunk people I wonder if they don´t lower themselves to much to do what the public wishes...

On a sidenote: the house of Orange under Prince Bernhard and Queen Beatrix is carefully spinning its web/network of friends in high places. Personally I think that the UN/EU jobs of the RF are part of this too. HM is keen to keep the royal influence as large as possible. If this is a very desirable thing is another matter, but IMHO that is certainly what they are doing. So though Maxima is no Mohammed Yunus, she knows Mr. Yunus, they befriended Kofi Annan etc. Good for the dynasty probably and consequently good for the country too, or at least not harmfull

Actually I think we agree mostly we are just vocalising it differently.
About Mette-Marit she does have an UN conection trough her beeing a special represnetative for UNAIDS, not that I think she does enough for it, she deff could step up and do more work in general.

About the family thing, this is all well and good if you have a large royal family, but take Sweden forinstance, there are at the present 3 working members of the royal family, the solo engagments of Madeleine and Carl Philip who are still students can be counted on one hand. The King has many things he simply has to do related to his office in Stockholm and that leaves much to the Queen and especially the Crown Princess, if they are not visiting the small places and the "insignificant" and "unspecial" events at small places in nowhere of Sweden, there are no "minor" royals to do it, and IMO if the royals are seen to only be in the lalrge town and abroad it gets them of in the wrong direction especially in countries like Sweden and Norway where the population is so very spread and many time unaccesible.

I agree that the UN/EU/intenrantional gigs are part of the work as well, and it does create some good-will towards the country, and I do not want them to think only about their own country, afterall that is not a very good example for their own people. However the value of this work Im unsure of, I mean todays country who are monarchys already give billions and around 1% of their BNP in forreign aid, how much good-will towards a country does a royal showing up at the UN create in comparrison to this money? I think sometimes on such boards as this the royal international role is a wee overrated, and yes the Yunus remark was just a silly comment, but I think in todays money focus world an accomplished forreign minister who actually has power to make decisions and money to give, visiting the UN has far more impact than any royal visit. so if the royals can bring their internation cause "home" and help create attention around the case in their own country and help highlight the need for money that is needed and what the ordinary people can do to help, Im all for it, but if it is just visiting the UN for the umptieth time to shake hand and have their pciture aken with the movers and shakers, well then I think their time is better spent elsewhere

 

[Elsa M.]

Felipe & Letizia: well, she doesn't have an agenda of her own, we only see her alongside Felipe, her sisters-in-law do the acts that should be presided by her

That is not true... as you well know. Her sisters-in-law have very few acts: Infantas Elena and Cristina have a simbolic average of only 3 acts per month, while Princess Letizia had an average of 25 acts per month (both presided by Prince Felipe and herself), during the first year and the remaining periods her agenda was not compromised by pregnancy.

The fact that she has little acts on her own doesn't mean she doesn't preside over them (lately, almost half of the events she attended were presided by her, although her husband accompanied her)... as a matter of fact that is a common practice in the Spanish Royal House. Queen Sofia - who is the Queen consort - doesn't have many acts on her own either, if you compare it with other European consorts (and certaily even lesser, if compare her to the Queens of England, Netherlands and Denmark).

Nevertheless, nobody questions that Queen Sofia and Princess Letizia are two of the most hard-working royal ladies in Europe and what is more: two ladies who know how to serve and addpt themselves to the causes of the royal family and to the expectations of their own country.

(Countdown to attack 5...4...3...2...1...
Starts ducking flying objects)

The same countdown should be done, when someone criticises your Cris&Iñaki adored couple... I'm just afraid it wouldn't take so much time till someone reacted

 

[lula]

I believe that every couple must answer to the needs and requirements of their country. There are things that some countries are normal and in totally inconceivable others.

I agree with Elsa. The Infantas do not do the work that the Princess should do, the Infantas are in the habit of coming to acts for a series of institutions, with which in many cases they go collaborating years. They have an agenda that limit to a few acts a month. They continue being daughters of the King, and in addition these few acts allow them to continue receiving money of the State. Probably, now many of the new requests that before were going to them, now go to the Princess, but they continue with the activities that go compromised years.

I agree with Larzen when she has commented that the Inheritors owe especially to their countries, this it is necessary to to be the priority. Many princes and princesses collaborate with international organizations, my doubt is the following one. When they collaborate with an international institution, they do it only in general activities of these institutions or do it in activities linked to their owncountries. I do not know if I have explained it well. For example, in case of Spain the Queen Sofia collaborates for many years with the microcredits. When she realizes a trip of cooperation, she visits places in which it has informed the Spanish cooperation.

 

[Princess Maxima]

Maxima and Willem-Alexander are by far the best CP couple IMO, they both work hard, represent very strong and important causes (microcredits and water management) and they are liked a lot

Fred & Mary: they adore each other, but Mary does more work than Fred, I mean, she's like everywhere at once doing solo acts and such, while we see Fred a lot less, I like them both a lot but I would like to see Fred working more

Mette Marit & Haakon: she has improved so much, from a shady past to the CP she's today, she still has a lot of work to do but it's great; Haakon seems to be a little whipped though and that doesn't help his future King image much

Felipe & Letizia: well, she doesn't have an agenda of her own, we only see her alongside Felipe, her sisters-in-law do the acts that should be presided by her; I used to like Felipe when he was single, now I don't like him that much and I don't like them as a couple: Letizia supposedly was a XXI century woman with strong beliefs and a career and now she hides behind pregnancies and lactancy, I don't like them together, 'cuz I don't think they win much together, they would do much better separately

(Countdown to attack 5...4...3...2...1...
Starts ducking flying objects)

I totally agree with you

Máxima&WA make a great great team

and Felipe&Letizia... 0 popularity in Spain