Clément, acknowledged by Prince Laurent as his son


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Tatiana-Marie

Regarding your question to Marengo about why both Laurent and Wendy/Iris knew that a marriage between the two of them was out of the question:

The Benelux Royal families have probably the strictest(unspoken) marriage standards in Europe, hands down.

Think of the men and women who have married in...one has to go back to Liliane Baels in the 40's(Belgium) and Tessy Antony in the early-mid 2000's(Luxembourg) to find any outliers. In both cases there was such a huge uproar that in Belgium the very monarchy was threatened and in Luxembourg the Prince signed away his Succession rights.

Even from a distance I can see that there is no way the king's son was going to be permitted to wed a pop singer.

Frankly it doesn't sound like Laurent was ever all that keen to marry Wendy. He seemed a very hot-and-cold lover, nothing more.
 
On the other hand, however, Henri married Maria Teresia, a Cuban woman who was not of noble birth. Apart from Guillaume, the heir to the throne, all of their children married commoners without any major problems. With the exception of Tessy, but that was not only because she was a commoner, but also because of their extremely young age when getting pregnant. IIRC Louis had not even graduated from school at the time. I always find it interesting that most weddings in royal families today are with commoners, in contrast to non reigning nobility, who very often still marry among themselves.
 
It's uncanny how genetics work in this specific family, those Coburg genes are SUPER strong, only Lorenz got his own over Astrid's in some of their kids because the Habsburg ones are very tough as well, the other partners of Albert's kids? NOT A CHANCE :lol:
I think Louise and Aymeric look like Claire, only Nicolas looks like Laurent. Also some of the grandkids look like married-ins Astrid and Paola.

King Albert I of Belgium had Clement as one of his middle names.
He was Albert Leopold Clement Marie Meinrad.
Young Clement has the first name that was used as a middle name of a royal ancestor.
He was named after Laurent’s home.

I believe that King Philippe has no out-of-wedlock-stories!
I don’t think Lorenz does either.

Think of the men and women who have married in...one has to go back to Liliane Baels in the 40's(Belgium) and Tessy Antony in the early-mid 2000's(Luxembourg) to find any outliers. In both cases there was such a huge uproar that in Belgium the very monarchy was threatened and in Luxembourg the Prince signed away his Succession rights.
María Teresa Mestre y Batista, Claire Coombs, Claire Lademacher, and Nicolas Bagory were all commoners.
 
Thank you for transcribing the documentary for us non-speakers of Dutch. Could you explain the pun?

if i may give it a go:
the closest to the saying 'van wanten weten' is 'know the ropes', and from what i remember of her work it always had a slight extra meaning as leaning towards sexual stuff (she also took part in tv program 'the pinup club' in which she answered (juicy) letters of people) so imagine it as 'know the ropes...nudge nudge, wink wink'
Firstname Wendy was probably chosen because of the alliteration in the first character and then we get 'Wendy van Wanten' as in 'Wendy who knows her stuff, nudge nudge'

hope that makes sense a bit 😉

PS. for some reason i'm not that surprised that they have a son together, even though i didn't really follow them, the idea that they had a relationship sort seemed to float around at the time. But it's good it is out in the open now
 
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On the other hand, however, Henri married Maria Teresia, a Cuban woman who was not of noble birth. Apart from Guillaume, the heir to the throne, all of their children married commoners without any major problems. With the exception of Tessy, but that was not only because she was a commoner, but also because of their extremely young age when getting pregnant. IIRC Louis had not even graduated from school at the time. I always find it interesting that most weddings in royal families today are with commoners, in contrast to non reigning nobility, who very often still marry among themselves.
As I always say....there are Commoners and then there are commoners.😏

Despite the fact that she probably didn't thrill Henri's family as a non European Cuban, Maria Teresa Mestre came from wealth, was educated and as upper class as it gets.

Same exact thing for Claire Lademacher with the added bonus that she is European.

Nicholas Bagory is an upper middle class brilliantly educated orthodox Catholic European. He fits in almost perfectly with the Lux Royals.

Can people TRULY believe that all of the above have the same image as a reality TV underwear model, a divorcee aspiring actress, a pop singer or a single mother reformed party girl??

Really??🤔

ETA: When I said there are few "outliers" in the type of people who marry into BeNeLux Royalty I was NOT just referring to commoners.

At the risk of offending someone, they don't necessarily have a problem with commoners...only a certain type.

Not all commoners are created equal.
 
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I can imagine that Joan Dillon (a single mom who was pregnant at the wedding) and Hélène Vestur who had a baby with Prince Jean out of wedlock were also controversial. On the other hand Sibilla Weiller is probably the favorite Luxembourgish commoner bride due to how blue-blooded she is.
 
Joan Dillon's pregnancy wasn't ideal, but the Dillons are members of the moneyed elite in the USA from a very long list of career diplomats.Her father was actually a member of both JFK's and Lyndon Johnson's Cabinets.

Google the Dillons when you have time. Her pregnancy and non Royal status probably weren't that difficult a pill for the Royal family to digest.😉

Joan Dillon was no Tessy Antony.

Sibilla Weiler was Royal in all but name.
 
And on that note let's move on and focus on the topic of this thread. Those interested in discussing choice of marriage partners in various European monarchies, can do so here.
 
Yesterday evening 600.000 belgians looked at the interview of Wendy and her Son Clement on VTM most in Flanders.I looked it also but it was difficult to understand Clement 's Dutch.
 
Yesterday evening 600.000 belgians looked at the interview of Wendy and her Son Clement on VTM most in Flanders.I looked it also but it was difficult to understand Clement 's Dutch.
It's funny that you say that about his Dutch. I've long heard that Dutch (and Frisian) are the two closest languages to English. But as an English-speaking American, I can't usually pick up much when I hear Dutch speakers in the Netherlands. When I listened to Clement, though, I could almost follow what he was saying.
 
Thank you for transcribing the documentary for us non-speakers of Dutch. Could you explain the pun?



I am not sure I understand what she means by Laurent "having to" get married. And why was it so clear to them that a marriage between the two of them (Laurent and Wendy/Iris) was not an option?


That is true for the general population, but isn't the taboo still present among the nobility? Even today, out-of-wedlock children are banned from inheriting titles (with the unique exception of Delphine and her children), and most noblemen's children appear to be born in wedlock.

Lee-Z explained the pun better than I could, above. let me add that Wendy herself says that for this tv-work -reading these letters- they needed to come up with a name. And her manager came with this one. She only recorded for 4 days, but the content was spread over many shows and she became well-known, especially in Flanders and she was stuck with the name.

About the wedding: Wendy says it was always clear to her they would never marry, their worlds were too far apart. She never hd any illusions about that and always knew 'it would be a temporary fairytale'.

As you know, in Belgium for a royal wedding while retaining succession rights, they need to get formal consent from the monarch. Albert would never ever allow such a wedding -had Laurent and Wendy wanted it. A parlament would never have voted against it of course, there would be no reason to object to Wendy, other than snobbery.

Out-of-wedlock may be less common in the nobility in Belgium, but even there it must be creeping in by now. Of course the nobility did excel in siring out-of-wedlock children for centuries, but that was accepted, boys will be boys. They had the means to take care of their mistresses and their children from the other side of the blanket. But society has changed, their role in it has changed dramatically, their financial position has changed.

The court does not function within the context of geriatric noblemen and hypocritical or outdated standards they may want to uphold, but in society as a whole. That society has vastly different values than these people do, which the present advisors of the King, and the King himself, seem to realise very well.


Can people TRULY believe that all of the above have the same image as a reality TV underwear model, a divorcee aspiring actress, a pop singer or a single mother reformed party girl??

I am not sure if you are talking about Wendy, but in case you are: I am not sure she ever was a party girl or underwear model. Her mother died when she was 19 y-o, she left the house and started to fend for herself. Nothing was handed to her, she always worked hard and has a carreer in the entertainment industry in Flanders that spans several decades, from the 80-ties to now. As it is such a small market compared to the US, it is not something easy, to be able to make a good living there. But she did. She has been with her current partner for 20 years, and in 2006 -at the age of 46- they had a baby girl.

Some of the other people you mention simply won the lottery of birth - they never needed to lift a finger to be set up for a succesful life. Although within the upper classes they will be held in higher regard, I am not sure if society as a whole thinks the same. I think many will be more impressed by somebody who had to fight every step than they would be by somebody who had everything handed to them and never achieved anything of note.

If we compare the prince and Wendy: she with her own carreer, a good income, etc. while he came from a broken family, was raised in foster care, barely was able to finish some education, was unemployed, living on benifits and in a grace and favor home.
 
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According to Belgian journalist Wim Dehandschutter, Prince Laurent informed King Philippe last week that he would reveal Clément's paternity. King Philippe reportedly appreciated Laurent's decision.
The Royal Household has no comment.

 
This is private as Prince Laurent asked in his Declaration
Back to the unforseen interview and its annoucement of the Dutch TV /VTM in the evening , Prince Laurent did his Declaration at 15.30 before the interview of Wendy and her Son Clement at 9.00. Well done !
Just read that VTM (Vlaams Televisie Maatschappy ) paid Wendy and her Son Clement for telling their story. 600.000 belgians looked at it a record !
 
For those who have access to HLN, there is an article to the relationship of Wendy and Laurent. They claim that Laurent had a ´harem´ at the time. And they quote a noblewoman saying ´that Flemish trollop snatched away my prince´.

As I already pointed out above, Wendy being Flemish would not have been a recomendation to some at court, at the time...

 
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Wow! Just now seeing this thread! Very surprising!
Clement definitely has some features from Laurent!
 
Some photos of Laurent and Clément:



Paying subsribers to TM can already see the documentary. That was Wim Dehandschutter was able to see it.

From his tweets:

In 2020, Clément contacted Prince Laurent for the first time (by phone). “I heard a deep voice say, Hello, who am I speaking to? I said, It's Clément. The first thing he said was, And how are you? My heart was pounding. We talked for 40 minutes.”

Clément met his father Prince Laurent for the first time aged 13. Completely unexpectedly in a shopping mall. His mother: “I was standing with Clément in the store and suddenly Laurent walked in.” Clément: “I looked at the man and heard, 'Clément, this is your daddy.'”
 
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The post claims that HLN reports that Prince Laurent will take the legal steps to have Clément legally acknowledged as his son and King Philippe has agreed to grant him the "consequences" (implied to include the title and predicate of HRH Prince of Belgium).

Supposedly it is stated in Part 2 of the documentary that Laurent and Clément are pursuing legal filiation.

Can anyone who reads HLN confirm whether that is correct? The poster may be referring to this paywalled article:

 
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Why would an action of Philippe be required? If Laurent legally acknowledges Clément as his son, wouldn't the jurisprudence related to the 2015 royal decree (in the case of Delphine) not suggest that he automatically becomes 'HRH Clément (surname), prince of Belgium'?

If I'm not mistaken he doesn't have to take his father surname, so he could decide to remain 'Clément Vandekerckhove', so, in that case he would be required to use 'ZKH Clément Vandekerckhove, prins van België' in any private or public acts/official documents.

Edit: In terms of surname Clément has various options once he is legally acknowledged by Laurent. According to the current law (since 1 January 2024), Belgians, recognized refugees and stateless people can (one time!) change their surname to either:
- the name of the father
- the name of the mother
- a combination of the two in any order
- the name of the adoptive parent (solely or in combination with the other parent).

So, for Clément that means, he can pick between either of these 4 options if :
- Vandekerckhove [current name, no change needed]
- Van Saksen-Coburg (or 'von Sachsen-Coburg' if he prefers the German version as Laurent did in his public acknowledgement; or 'de Saxe-Cobourg' if he prefers the French version)
- Van Saksen-Coburg Vandekerkhove (assuming he prefers the Dutch version - but he could use either German or French instead)
- Vandekerkhove Van Saksen-Coburg (assuming he prefers the Dutch version - but he could use either German or French instead)
 
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Why would an action of Philippe be required? If Laurent legally acknowledges Clément as his son, wouldn't the jurisprudence related to the 2015 royal decree (in the case of Delphine) not suggest that he automatically becomes 'HRH Clément (surname), prince of Belgium'?

I imagine the reported claim is that King Philippe will confer the title rather than passively waiting for Clément to petition a judge for it (and probably succeed, if Delphine is any indication).

It would be "HRH Prince Clément (surname), Prince of Belgium" (followed by any other titles, e.g. Duke of Saxony, Prince of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, that he is deemed entitled to). This is how the HRH members of the family are consistently styled in official documents.

See for example how Princess Maria Laura was "Her Royal Highness Princess Maria Laura of Austria-Este (Habsburg-Lorraine), Princess of Belgium" in her marriage decree.



It makes sense because, in the Kingdom of Belgium, there is a difference between being a Prince and being a Prince of Belgium (all Princes of Belgium are Princes, but not all Princes are Princes of Belgium).

I respectfully suggest that any further discussion of how Belgian royal titles and surnames function be continued in Titles of the Belgian Royal Family 2: 2023 -, as those topics have been extensively discussed there and in the prior Titles thread. :flowers:
 
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I am not surprised that Clément is Laurent's son, I *was* surprised at the acknowledgement. But good for Laurent for being so forward with the airing of the documentary in sight. He was asked to participate, but declined to and said he wanted to make it public in his own way. It seems like he is not ashamed of Clément.
The rumors about Laurent and Iris/Wendy's relationship were abundant in the print media in the late 1990s/early 2000s, that photo of them was reused multiple times. Also the rumors about Clément's paternity were swirling and now they are true.

I've read that two royal watchers, Joelle Vanden Houden and Brigitte Balfoort, have difficulty believing that Laurent is the father because of the information that they have always been given by their sources, who are apparently reputable. They have always been told that Danny De Waele, Iris/Wendy's late manager and friend, was the father. Admitted, there is some similarity between him and Clément, but I see much more of Laurent in him. His posture and head shape are the same. However, I also see Iris/ Wendy's face in Clément's.
My take is that both Ms. Vandenhouden and Ms. Balfoort feel sort of betrayed now that their inside information is proven to have been incorrect. ("Our conviction was: if prince *Laurent* is the father, then we would have known that much earlier. [Balfoort]" "I keep having difficulty to believe this story,“ so the royalty expert who is being called the memory of the monarchy [Vanden Houden], says. "Unless they come up now with a DNA test." And such a test is supposedly there.) They mention that in this account-walled article https://www.nieuwsblad.be/media-en-...-is-iets-dat-wij-nog-niet-weten/89218723.html

The Danny De Waele paternity story was apparently so credible that some reporters even accused him and Wendy of using Prince Laurent as being the possible father to boost her career. Danny De Waele was Clément's first father figure.

Other royalty wathers are not surprised at all that Laurent is Clément's father.

In the second part of the documentary, to be aired this Thursday evening - and this is a spoiler alert, although pieces of it are already online - among the two photographs of Laurent and Clément:


They *have* taken a DNA test, and it gave 99,5% security. I'm no expert on DNA, but I'd say that that is enough proof. Laurent proposed it and went in first to make Clément at ease.

This walled article (Onze royalty-expert ziet koning Filip ongewild een risico nemen: “Hij heeft geen grip op Laurent, en al helemaal niet op Clément”) mentions that "“The father of Clément is aware of this documentary. They see each other regularly and are taking concrete steps to an official recognition." The text supposedly shows at the end of the documentary.
So my take is that in the not too distant future Belgium will have a HRH Prince Clément de Saxe-Cobourg, Prince of Belgium. I would like it for him, he seems a kind and sympathetic guy.
I don't think any court case will be necessary and King Philippe has apparently already made it clear that he will sign.

He apparently also states he would like to meet Princess Delphine, "because I think that she is one of the few persons who knows 100 percent how I feel." His mother has already met her, around the time of her official recognition (Facebook photo: https://www.facebook.com/wendyvanwanten/posts/proficiat-delphine-/3472713446083943/).

Iris/Wendy has followed the then-Delphine Boël case with immense interest, and Clément now understands why. She says that she has mentioned change in her son, he is more mature and a burden has fallen off him. It's in this subscription-only article “Ik heb geen zwijggeld gekregen”: veel vragen worden beantwoord in deel twee van de Clément-documentaire, maar één niet.
 
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Why would an action of Philippe be required? If Laurent legally acknowledges Clément as his son, wouldn't the jurisprudence related to the 2015 royal decree (in the case of Delphine) not suggest that he automatically becomes 'HRH Clément (surname), prince of Belgium'?


I imagine the reported claim is that King Philippe will confer the title rather than passively waiting for Clément to petition a judge for it (and probably succeed, if Delphine is any indication).

To expand on my answer:

When I called the judge(s) in Delphine's case hypocritical for giving a title only to Delphine (and her children), but not to other illegitimate children who are in exactly the same position as Delphine, @Linda_26 correctly reminded me that Belgium's legal system is centered on written law, and case law (precedents set by previous judgments) is not a binding source of law.

Thus, the judge's decision in Delphine's case does not force other, equivalent cases to be resolved in the same way (although it certainly might influence other judges' thinking). Thus, another judge hearing Clément's hypothetical petition for a title would remain free to make their own decision.
 
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