Battle of Brothers: William, Harry and the Inside Story of A Family in Tumult

[Betsypaige]

I can smell Yukari's sarcasm from here.

William and Harry are brothers. They're not joined at the hip or a dual act as "Diana's boys" nor are they required to walk alike, talk alike, share the same interests or have a conjoined Siamese twin personality.

Siblings squabble and pick on each other and grow up with their own life projections that suit them and them alone. These two don't see eye to eye and the public starts putting "labels" on them. The good son, the bad son, the straight and narrow son, the goofy rambunctious son and the bold and the reserved son. The old Jack Sprat analogy.

Professionally in their public lives, they were going to have different ideas of how things should be done. They both have the right to *not* just be a puppet on a string and concede to the "norm" and go their own way when it doesn't work for them. It works well for William. His life and his family meshes very well with the role laid out before him. He's happy. Harry found his happiness elsewhere and made the decision he wanted for himself and his family. Neither of the brothers are wrong.

Harry could be handling things a lot better, but I agree either you completely.

This “Diana’s boys” things annoys me anyway as it implies they are more hers than Charles. They are both their parents’ sons, and they also are not twins of their parents, the same way none of us are with our own. Charles has allowed his children the freedom to be who they will, no pressure - not like he got from his father. As a result, the boys have grown into men with different wants and needs from life. William is not going to do everything as PoW as his father has done, and that’s a good thing; it means that he feels confident that he can be as impactful as Charles while putting his own stamp on things. Harry has certainly taken a very different road..he knows his own mind.

I just really resent Lacey for making W and H’s rift bigger than it has to be by trying to place all blame on W and making this into a soap opera with ramifications behind the personal lives of the BRF. That’s hogwash.

 

[TLLK]

As the second in line, William had to consider not only Harry's personal happiness, but also how his marriage would impact the Royal House.

Harry's marriage to Meghan might or might not be successful in the long run (it is still early to tell), but I think it is fair to say that, even in such a short period of time, it has already proven to be negative for the Royal House at least in the UK and the major Commonwealth realms. In this sense, William's concerns were justified.

IMO some of William's concerns were for Meghan's transition from leading a very independent life in North America to living one with intensive press scrutiny and the limitation that would be in place as a member of the British Royal Family. He must have known that this would be a difficult transition for her.

 

[Sunnystar]

Question... Why is everyone believing Lacey's version of events with respect to any conversations William had with Harry or other family members while Harry and Meghan were dating? It seems like the general consensus is that Lacey is spinning everything as William's fault, since they were toddlers. Why take it at face value that William went to Charles Spencer to ask him to speak with Harry about slowing things down with Meghan? It seems equally plausible to me that Harry either told or implied to William that Charles Spencer thought Meghan was the bee's knees and he shouldn't hesitate if he loved her and that William called Uncle Charles up to find out if he'd really said that to Harry and if he did to maybe reconsider the impact that a fast courtship and hasty marriage could have if it didn't work out. We simply don't know what prompted William to call their uncle and ask him to speak to Harry.

We also really don't know what the circumstances were surrounding any "go slowly" advice William offered Harry. Maybe Harry asked for William's advice, expecting that William would be supportive. Maybe Kate told William to stay out of it and just smile and nod. Maybe William didn't recognize that just because Harry was asking that didn't mean Harry wanted an honest answer. Maybe when William offered a lukewarm response, Harry got upset and said "well, Uncle Charles says I should go after her and not let her get cold feet and lose her the way I did Chelsy or Cressida!"

All we really know is the version that Lacey is presenting and it's clearly biased against William and Kate so I take everything with a grain of salt. In addition to that, hey, sometimes you don't even know, in your thirties, to keep your thoughts about your siblings' spouses to yourself. Been there, done that. Luckily, my brother wound up in a much better, healthier relationship once he divorced his cheating ex.

 

[Curryong]

And what if said spouse hadn't been cheating, but was a great person the sibling was very happy with, but critical sibling just didn't like her and unsolicited advice was offered anyway? A lifelong breach?

As far as I remember it was a Royal correspondent ages ago who came out with the story that William told his brother to slow down, not Scobie or Durward or Lacey, but one of those Royal Rota correspondents who were so kind and welcoming to the Sussexes through their Royal lives.

 

[Osipi]

All we really know is the version that Lacey is presenting and it's clearly biased against William and Kate so I take everything with a grain of salt.

The biggie for me is that this book was written by a man that most likely has never had a real, sit down, honest to God personal conversation with either William or Harry or their spouses.

 

[Curryong]

Yes, Osipi and it's is a point but you could say that about many biographers who have written about royal family members. And when that isn't so, Junor, Scobie for instance, accusations fly that they are too close to their subjects. Several pro Charles biographers wrote damning things about Diana but had never exchanged a word with her in their lives.

And often within relationships and families there's 'he said' 'she said' 'he said' again, and the truth is often lost somewhere in the middle.

 

[Betsypaige]

Question... Why is everyone believing Lacey's version of events with respect to any conversations William had with Harry or other family members while Harry and Meghan were dating? It seems like the general consensus is that Lacey is spinning everything as William's fault, since they were toddlers. Why take it at face value that William went to Charles Spencer to ask him to speak with Harry about slowing things down with Meghan? It seems equally plausible to me that Harry either told or implied to William that Charles Spencer thought Meghan was the bee's knees and he shouldn't hesitate if he loved her and that William called Uncle Charles up to find out if he'd really said that to Harry and if he did to maybe reconsider the impact that a fast courtship and hasty marriage could have if it didn't work out. We simply don't know what prompted William to call their uncle and ask him to speak to Harry.

We also really don't know what the circumstances were surrounding any "go slowly" advice William offered Harry. Maybe Harry asked for William's advice, expecting that William would be supportive. Maybe Kate told William to stay out of it and just smile and nod. Maybe William didn't recognize that just because Harry was asking that didn't mean Harry wanted an honest answer. Maybe when William offered a lukewarm response, Harry got upset and said "well, Uncle Charles says I should go after her and not let her get cold feet and lose her the way I did Chelsy or Cressida!"

All we really know is the version that Lacey is presenting and it's clearly biased against William and Kate so I take everything with a grain of salt. In addition to that, hey, sometimes you don't even know, in your thirties, to keep your thoughts about your siblings' spouses to yourself. Been there, done that. Luckily, my brother wound up in a much better, healthier relationship once he divorced his cheating ex.

I don’t believe a word Lacey is saying. Everything about his book is gross and ugly to me. Whatever information he might have gotten right is completely undercut by his biased, mean-spirited and nasty interpretation of events.

Ok, I admit I did take the Earl Spencer story at face value, but I shouldn’t have. There’s no doubt a lot more to it than Lacey has reported....

I really hope this book does not do as well as he expected.

 

[Sunnystar]

And what if said spouse hadn't been cheating, but was a great person the sibling was very happy with, but critical sibling just didn't like her and unsolicited advice was offered anyway? A lifelong breach?

As far as I remember it was a Royal correspondent ages ago who came out with the story that William told his brother to slow down, not Scobie or Durward or Lacey, but one of those Royal Rota correspondents who were so kind and welcoming to the Sussexes through their Royal lives.

Without straying too far off topic, the cheating part was the icing on the cake of her being a pretty controlling twit who isolated my brother from our mom, which really stabbed our mom in the heart (he is her favorite child, but that's another story, lol, and not one tinged with jealousy since I get plenty of attention as the only daughter, lol). I never really offered much advice to him, one way or the other, but I certainly wasn't impressed with her taking such offense over me challenging his presumed superior knowledge about college football in a FB discussion of all things that he wound up blocking me. Like... What? In the end, whatever misgivings I had about the match turned out to be the correct read on her.

As far as the story about William urging Harry to slow down, I do seem to recall that there were rumblings about something to that affect a few years ago but, again, unless the reporter heard it directly from William or Harry, who knows what spin was being put on the conversation by staff or courtiers.

 

[Tarlita]

I agree with so many of you about Lacey and his horrible tone and snobbishness towards the Middletons. This has changed my view of him entirely. I now no longer respect his claims about any royals as being anywhere near the truth.
Someone once said; "A written History is just someone else's Bias." Maybe there is quite a bit of truth to that statement regarding Mr Lacey as it appears he has shown his bias towards Catherine and her family.

I feel for the Middletons as they can't really defend themselves, without upsetting the RF.

 

[Betsypaige]

I agree with so many of you about Lacey and his horrible tone and snobbishness towards the Middletons. This has changed my view of him entirely. I now no longer respect his claims about any royals as being anywhere near the truth.
Someone once said; "A written History is just someone else's Bias." Maybe there is quite a bit of truth to that statement regarding Mr Lacey as it appears he has shown his bias towards Catherine and her family.

I feel for the Middletons as they can't really defend themselves, without upsetting the RF.

I take a great deal of pleasure in knowing that BP returned the manuscript of the book Lacey sent them...unopened. That should tell us all we need to know how the Queen - and very likely Charles - feel about this waste of paper.

Everyone seems to adore Kate and like her family, and I’m sure that - beyond William - they are outraged on their behalf (if they’ve been kept in the loop or have read excerpts).

If Lacey’s claims that he spoke to BP and other true insiders are correct, it means that people close to HM, Charles, William, etc..have broken confidences...

 

[Denville]

Everyone seems to adore Kate and her family??? I woudnt say so. I dont, certianly but compared to some royals she's pretty good and I think she's improved a lot in the past year or 2.

 

[muriel]

I mean look how people looked down on Meghan for making her own money and having a career. So that’s not surprising. People called her a golddigger on top if it too. The Middletons at least are English, so despite people looking down they still are better than Meghan in many’s eyes. It’s all nonsense though.

I do not think people looked down on Meghan for making her own money. They looked down on Meghan for acting like a prima-donna, and not respecting the institution and family she married into, and leaving it in a manner that did not demonstrate either grace or dignity.

 

[muriel]

As the second in line, William had to consider not only Harry's personal happiness, but also how his marriage would impact the Royal House.

Harry's marriage to Meghan might or might not be successful in the long run (it is still early to tell), but I think it is fair to say that, even in such a short period of time, it has already proven to be negative for the Royal House at least in the UK and the major Commonwealth realms. In this sense, William's concerns were justified.

Very well said, @Mbruno.

 

[AC21091968]

Everyone seems to adore Kate and her family??? I woudnt say so. I dont, certianly but compared to some royals she's pretty good and I think she's improved a lot in the past year or 2.

I agree, perhaps in this forum, the Middletons are overall well-like right now (I'm not quite sure in the past) . For the general public, I am not sure. From reading the Daily Mail comments (it's my guilty pleasure ), the Middletons were not initially liked and "pushy parents", "social climbers", "opportunists" & "wisteria sisters" have been throwing around even after the wedding. I would say that the positive comments become more popular (best rated) was when Meghan arrived at the scene. Again, it's like the lesser of two evils, when a newly married in royal becomes a new target or punching bag. At one point, I have read a comment that said that "Meghan's family drama reminds me to be appreciate the Middleton's family" around the time of the Harry and Meghan's wedding preparation and the "letter incident".

Disclaimer: I know that tabloid comments do not represent British people's view.

 

[Denville]

I agree, perhaps in this forum, the Middletons are overall well-like right now (I'm not quite sure in the past) . For the general public, I am not sure. From reading the Daily Mail comments (it's my guilty pleasure ), the Middletons were not initially liked and "pushy parents", "social climbers", "opportunists" & "wisteria sisters" have been throwing around even after the wedding. I would say that the positive comments become more popular (best rated) was when Meghan arrived at the scene. Again, it's like the lesser of two evils, when a newly married in royal becomes a new target or punching bag. At one point, I have read a comment that said that "Meghan's family drama reminds me to be appreciate the Middleton's family" around the time of the Harry and Meghan's wedding preparation and the "letter incident".

Disclaimer: I know that tabloid comments do not represent British people's view.

That's not quite the case, from what I've seen of negative tabloid comments about M and Harry, its roughly evenly divided between US and UK commenters... Yes there is snobbery about the Middletons, and yes they are IMO a bit pushy ( at least Carole is).. but they're reasonably OK people, and are supportive of Kate and probably give her a lot of security and affection.. which is a help to her... whereas M's family apart from her mother have been quite the opposite...
And yes I think Kate has been slow to get into royal work but she has concentrated on her children for the past years and now that they are getting a bit older, she is IMO taking on more royal work and doing a decent job on it..

 

[Denville]

I do not think people looked down on Meghan for making her own money. They looked down on Meghan for acting like a prima-donna, and not respecting the institution and family she married into, and leaving it in a manner that did not demonstrate either grace or dignity.

Im sure that there is snobbery about the Middletons as well but yes with Meghan, it is pretty clear that she didn't have any idea what she was marrying into, and possibly never intended it to be her full time life after her marriage. The fact that she left largely to make a professional income shows where her priorities lay...

 

[Curryong]

Very well said, @Mbruno.

Well, as an Australian and therefore a citizen of one of the 'major Commonwealth realms' I would say that Harry and Meghan leaving has no 'negative impact' here, Mbruno. The only negative impact on the realms in the Southern Hemispere that I can see will occur after the Queen's death when Charles comes to the throne. He is not popular here.

And I can't remember the last time anyone spoke about Kate and William admiringly or otherwise in any large gathering that I have attended in Australia. It must literally have been many many years. They have no impact at all on the ordinary Australian. So Kate and her family loved and adored here in this realm? No.

 

[rominet09]

Everyone seems to adore Kate and her family??? I woudnt say so. I dont, certianly but compared to some royals she's pretty good and I think she's improved a lot in the past year or 2.

I am not a special fan of Kate but we must all agree, so far she has behaved impeccably in all circumstances.

 

[Denville]

I am not a special fan of Kate but we must all agree, so far she has behaved impeccably in all circumstances.

I've never been a great fan but I think that in contrast with some royals, she has developed as she grew older, and has a natural discretion and common sense... I dont think she's a great queen to be, but she's certainly grown into the role.. and I think its clear that her first priorities are her family life wiht Will and hte kids which is admirable...

 

[AC21091968]

Well, as an Australian and therefore a citizen of one of the 'major Commonwealth realms' I would say that Harry and Meghan leaving has no 'negative impact' here, Mbruno. The only negative impact on the realms in the Southern Hemispere that I can see will occur after the Queen's death when Charles comes to the throne. He is not popular here.

And I can't remember the last time anyone spoke about Kate and William admiringly or otherwise in any large gathering that I have attended in Australia. It must literally have been many many years. They have no impact at all on the ordinary Australian. So Kate and her family loved and adored here in this realm? No.

It also would depend on the person's political leaning and republican/pro-monarchy stance. I know the video below is from Sky News Australia and Campbell Newman is Liberal-National Party (centre-right) politician and former Premier of Queensland. He mentioned along the lines that "Harry and Meghan are turning me into a Republican". Video starts at 6:42

Of course there are publicans with left-wing or even republican view (i.e. The Guardian and The Age) would be more sympathetic to Meghan.

Even in the Sydney Morning Herald (politically centre publication at one point allegedly supported "Yes" for the republican referendum), where these two writers below have been sympathetic towards Harry and Meghan, the comment section overall however were on the negative side (towards the couple). Jenna Price and Natalie Reilly at some point making digs at the royal family.

https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/li...e-royal-women-before-her-20200824-p55owz.html

https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/fa...he-royals-don-t-20200306-p547hf.html#comments

What I'm trying to say is that ever since Harry and Meghan decided to leave as senior working royals, most monarchists (that I have read online) have been more sympathetic to towards the Queen rather than the couple themselves.

I agree with you that Charles is not popular, certainly when the recent Guardian paper was released mentioning his sympathetic letter to the then Governor General.

In terms of William and Kate not making an impact on ordinary Australian, of course, unless you are a royal watcher or a very staunch monarchist, most people would not have been engaging or continuously making discussion, but so do other royals including Charles & Camilla, Harry & Meghan, Edward (it was low key) or even Queen & Duke of Edinburgh's last tour. Harry and Meghan may be generating news headlines recently, but it mostly focus on the controversies they have stirred, rather than their relatively successful tours. I think the only royal that is loved is The Queen. Even some republicans cannot deny that they like The Queen and would campaign for a republic once Charles ascend to the throne, but not during her reign.

 

[ACO]

I do not think people looked down on Meghan for making her own money. They looked down on Meghan for acting like a prima-donna, and not respecting the institution and family she married into, and leaving it in a manner that did not demonstrate either grace or dignity.

Really? I saw quite many comments saying just that. Even dismissing her entire career (still happens now). This was while she was still a working royal. Not even talking about her position now.

Also why shouldn't she make an income? I mean one can lose count on the obsession people had on money with Meghan. Heck the $2.4M was a never ending discussion. Now people can't use it as a weapon. She not taking anything from anyone.

I do think it is interesting how people are running to defend the Middletons and dismiss Lacey's book though were quick to believe things about Doria from the media though it never happened. I think it is all rubbish but it is fascinating.

As for Kate... I have no thoughts on her one way or another. I am glad she seems to finally found her niche and it is clear her family and supporting William is her main priority. That is great.

Kate will one day be Queen. Her situation is completely different.

 

[muriel]

Really? I saw quite many comments saying just that. Even dismissing her entire career (still happens now). This was while she was still a working royal. Not even talking about her position now.

Also why shouldn't she make an income? I mean one can lose count on the obsession people had on money with Meghan. Heck the $2.4M was a never ending discussion. Now people can't use it as a weapon. She not taking anything from anyone.

I have absolutely no problem with Meghan having had a career prior to marrying Harry. The problems started shortly thereafter!

 

[muriel]

In terms of William and Kate not making an impact on ordinary Australian, of course, unless you are a royal watcher or a very staunch monarchist, most people would not have been engaging or continuously making discussion, but so do other royals including Charles & Camilla, Harry & Meghan, Edward (it was low key) or even Queen & Duke of Edinburgh's last tour. Harry and Meghan may be generating news headlines recently, but it mostly focus on the controversies they have stirred, rather than their relatively successful tours. I think the only royal that is loved is The Queen. Even some republicans cannot deny that they like The Queen and would campaign for a republic once Charles ascend to the throne, but not during her reign.

All good points. However, a few weeks down under by the Cambridge family will change the public narrative quite quickly. I still remember Prince George being referred to as Republican-slayer and so on, following the 2014 trip. If it was not for the pandemic, I would expect them to be heading there fairly soon, its been 6 years since they last went.

 

[Betsypaige]

Everyone seems to adore Kate and her family??? I woudnt say so. I dont, certianly but compared to some royals she's pretty good and I think she's improved a lot in the past year or 2.

Sigh, I’m talking about the BRF.....and that was pretty obvious from my post.

 

[Betsypaige]

I agree, perhaps in this forum, the Middletons are overall well-like right now (I'm not quite sure in the past) . For the general public, I am not sure. From reading the Daily Mail comments (it's my guilty pleasure ), the Middletons were not initially liked and "pushy parents", "social climbers", "opportunists" & "wisteria sisters" have been throwing around even after the wedding. I would say that the positive comments become more popular (best rated) was when Meghan arrived at the scene. Again, it's like the lesser of two evils, when a newly married in royal becomes a new target or punching bag. At one point, I have read a comment that said that "Meghan's family drama reminds me to be appreciate the Middleton's family" around the time of the Harry and Meghan's wedding preparation and the "letter incident".

Disclaimer: I know that tabloid comments do not represent British people's view.

I was referring to the BRF..... I don’t really care generally how popular anyone is with the public since my own favorite, Charles (not counting HM), is quite unpopular.

 

[muriel]

Really? I saw quite many comments saying just that. Even dismissing her entire career (still happens now). This was while she was still a working royal. Not even talking about her position now.

Indeed. To opine is cheap, the judgement, IMO, lies in establishing the credibility of the opinion before giving it any credence.

 

[Mbruno]

As for Kate... I have no thoughts on her one way or another. I am glad she seems to finally found her niche and it is clear her family and supporting William is her main priority. That is great.

I think that is an understatement of her role. First, she has taken over several patronages and charities. Second, she has also pursued her interests in art/photography and gardening/landscape design.


Your post makes her look like just a stay-at-home mum/wife.

 

[Denville]

I was referring to the BRF..... I don’t really care generally how popular anyone is with the public since my own favorite, Charles (not counting HM), is quite unpopular.

No way of knowing how popular Kate or the middletons are with the RF as a whole....

 

[TLLK]

I think that is an understatement of her role. First, she has taken over several patronages and charities. Second, she has also pursued her interests in art/photography and gardening/landscape design.


Your post makes her look like just a stay-at-home mum/wife.

Yes much like Camilla, Sophie, Brigitta and Katherine Kent, Catherine as a married in member of the BRF has found a way to balance her home life, patronages, royal duties and personal interests. Her sister-in-law Meghan was just starting to do so with her patronages and family life, but has now stepped back from senior royal duties.

 

[Betsypaige]

I think that is an understatement of her role. First, she has taken over several patronages and charities. Second, she has also pursued her interests in art/photography and gardening/landscape design.


Your post makes her look like just a stay-at-home mum/wife.

I couldn’t agree more. I find that she has achieved a brilliant balance between motherhood, supporting her husband and the Queen and finding her niche as very much her own person. You laid it all out beautifully.