Analysis of Máxima

[Jo of Palatine]

Nonsense.
Denis Thatcher had to shut up and be pretty next to Margaret.
Prince Philip has to shut up and be pretty next to Elizabeth.
Prince Henrik has to shut up and be pretty next to Margrethe.

I'm sure Queen Beatrix wishes her father had shut up and been pretty next to Juliana....

 

[The Watcher]

Interesting that she gets more than Willem-Alexander when you look at component C. Probably there's children's allowance or something like that...

No a typo They both have 226.000 in the income component.

 

[Henri M.]

Accountable

The accountability of Máxima is relatively.

Her allowance is set up as a personal income and to cover costs which derive from her position as the spouse to HRH The Prince of Orange. It was the intention of the lawmaker that 'it is desirable that the prestige and the dignity of the kingship is uphold and maintained' and therefore these six members of the Royal House are given financial support.

How exactly these millions in the private allowances are spent, only the Thesauriër der Koningin (The Queen's Treasurer) knows. We do know that the Queen does pay the functional costs from her Hofdames and Dames du Palais, as they are not in the service of the state but in her very personal service.

We may argue how Máxima has spent her millions succesfully 'to maintain and uphold the prestige and dignity of the kingship'. My opinion is that she could do better, especially the last months. That is all.

 

[ysbel]

The accountability of Máxima is relatively.

Her allowance is set up as a personal income and to cover costs which derive from her position as the spouse to HRH The Prince of Orange. It was the intention of the lawmaker that 'it is desirable that the prestige and the dignity of the kingship is uphold and maintained' and therefore these six members of the Royal House are given financial support.

How exactly these millions in the private allowances are spent, only the Thesauriër der Koningin (The Queen's Treasurer) knows. We do know that the Queen does pay the functional costs from her Hofdames and Dames du Palais, as they are not in the service of the state but in her very personal service.

We may argue how Máxima has spent her millions succesfully 'to maintain and uphold the prestige and dignity of the kingship'. My opinion is that she could do better, especially the last months. That is all.

Henri, you make a very good point here which is a valid topic of discussion. Its unfortunate that you initially used the term 'shut up and be pretty' because it really didn't explain fully what you were talking about and it needlessly alienated a lot of members.

 

[princess olga]

The accountability of Máxima is relatively.

Her allowance is set up as a personal income and to cover costs which derive from her position as the spouse to HRH The Prince of Orange. It was the intention of the lawmaker that 'it is desirable that the prestige and the dignity of the kingship is uphold and maintained' and therefore these six members of the Royal House are given financial support.

How exactly these millions in the private allowances are spent, only the Thesauriër der Koningin (The Queen's Treasurer) knows. We do know that the Queen does pay the functional costs from her Hofdames and Dames du Palais, as they are not in the service of the state but in her very personal service.

We may argue how Máxima has spent her millions succesfully 'to maintain and uphold the prestige and dignity of the kingship'. My opinion is that she could do better, especially the last months. That is all.

Agree with the entire post, except for the end. I think that especially actually in recent months, <inhoudelijk bekeken>, when strictly looking at the content of what she's been up to, there isn't all that much to comment about I think.

For example, I watched the interview with the couple when in Australia, and was pleased with the way they conducted themselves. As well as the fact that it was clear, from their answers, that they had done their home work on the countries they were visiting and were able to talk intelligently about differences or lack thereof, of their host countries versus the Netherlands. And mind you, I am one of the <original> sceptics, aka critics, of this couple on this very Forum, but even I can see how this couple has, well, grown, if you will, over the past years.

I agree they could do more, though. I also agree Maxima needs a hair cut.

 

[princess olga]

She IS accountable! If you read The Watchers post, only one page ago, you would have found this:

Under the Constitution and the Royal House Finances Act, the State pays allowances directly to Queen Beatrix, Prince Willem-Alexander and Princess Máxima.

The other members of the Royal House do not receive allowances.
The allowances consist of 3 components:

• Component A, which relates to staff costs;
• Component B, which relates to other expenses;
• Component C, which is the income component.

The following table shows the estimated allowances for 2007.
(in thousands of euros)

The Queen
A 1,511
B 1,795
C 762
Total 4,068

Prince Willem-Alexander
A 294
B 457
C 226
Total 977

Princess Máxima
A 294
B 343
C 266
Total 863

------

So the sum that is free for her to do with as she pleases is 266.000 euros, still enough, but hardly exhuberent.

I see your point and agree partly, for the most part however I'm with Henri on this one in that their accountability is relative.

Especially if these people still manage to take the governmental plane to some (many) of their private trips--understandable if it's to, say, Valentino in Rome to try on 'work clothes, but how do we know they don't use the thing to, say, attend a rendez vous with friends and family, say (which they do, it is said.)? As long as this is still a murky area in the royal accounting, I am with Henri in that these people's accountability is relative.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Denis Thatcher had to shut up and be pretty next to Margaret.

That's not true at all. Dennis Thatcher chose to take a back seat role as his knowledge of politics was extremely small compared to his wife's knowledge. Dennis would actually give reporters and journalists the silent treatment and would blantantly ignore them. He never wanted Margaret to be Prime Minister and so he refused to do the things previous Prime Ministerial consorts had done. He regularly refused to accompany Margaret in public and usually stuck to golf, whisky and Chequers. He was controversially quiet. He should have done alot more than he did. Lady Eden had done alot, Lady Douglas-Home had also taken on a more prominent role but Mrs Wilson refused to just as Dennis did. The Prime Ministerial PR team then got into a fluster because Dennis was seen as a slacker and not really that bothered. Thats the problem of not having a pre-defined role for a Prime Ministerial consort. So no, Dennis didn't shut up and look pretty at all. He chose to do nothing.

Thats completely the opposite to what is expected of Princess Maxima so I don't quite get the comparison.

 

[auntie]

I've noticed on various occasions as Maxima to be refferd as Princess and not Cprincess, is there a reason for this, and is she reffered to as the Princess of Orange? will she be Queen one day? or only princess consort?!

 

[Marengo]

The title crownprince(ss) does not exsist in the Netherlands. The Crownprince has the title Prince of Orange and is called 'the presumtive heir to the throne'.

 

[RachelD]

Quick question...Prince Charles is only addressed as The Prince of Wales (or Prince Charles) and not as the Crown Prince of Great Britain? Just wondering since this applies to the Netherlands....

 

[Princess Maxima]

will she be Queen one day? or only princess consort?!

When Queen Beatrix abdicates, Máxima will turn to be Queen Máxima

 

[princess olga]

When Queen Beatrix abdicates, Máxima will turn to be Queen Máxima

Well, that's still to be determined I believe. First of, and correct me if I'm wrong, when Beatrix abdicates, it will be:

-King Willem Alexander

as HE is the one who's the heir of her role, NOT Maxima.

and the title of his spouse is still a matter of debate. It could be queen consort, or princess consort. As Claus was Prince Consort, there are voices in the Neth. that say Maxima might hence get the title 'Princess consort'.

 

[prinsesbeagle]

nope

It may not be an automatism by law, but that doesn't mean there will be a big debate over it. My guess is it will happen without any protests whatsoever.

 

[Marengo]

I assume that the debate will depend on what parties have a large voice in parlament. i can't imagine the Christian Democrats of the conservative liberals to make an issue out of this, while the more left leaning parties might (due to sex equality). The decission about this wasn't postponed to the future for nothing, the then prime minister probably felt that there would be a (to) large debate on the issue.
My own guess is that there will be a debate about the matter but in the end a majority will vote in favour of Maxima becoming Queen with the argument of national tradition and international custom (conveniently overlooking Marroco).

 

[Marengo]

I just saw the television programme 'profiel' which was about Princess Maxima. Several journalists were commenting on the engagement, the Zorreguietta-affair etc.

Frenk van der Linden (NRC-Handelsblad) compared Maxima to a tefal-pan: all mess just slides of her and doesn't do her any harm . He also was impressed by Maxima's engagement in microcredits and immigrant women, according to him she is always very involved and well prepared.

According to another journalist the RVD was involved with Maxima's choise of clothes in the beginning. They wanted to get rid of the image of a partying Maxima, hence the high collars. Apparently they can not show the first images we saw of Maxima on television anymore (Maxima at a friends wedding, dancing and drinking).

The comment 'een beetje dom' at the engagement press conference wasn't a spontanious comment at all but prepared. It had its effect anyway and broke the ice.

Ineke Holthuis was the (Volkskrant?) correspondant who found out Maxima's name first. She commented on the father ('a messenger-boy of the rich landowners') and that Maxima was not of the highest class, the argentinian landaristocracy but the upper middle class. The school Maxima attended was for the rich, and Maxima probably learnt there many things she can use now (presentation for example). It is curious to see how the net around Maxima closed immediately after news of the relationship came out: (almost) none of the relatives, friends, former classmates, collegues etc was willing to talk to the press but kept a discrete silence.

As a final remark they asked Frenk van der Linden if Beatrix was hapy with Maxima. His reply: 'Happy? Beatrix isn't happy with Maxima but feels like doing a polonaise on a table with her'.

 

[prinsesbeagle]

boring telly show

I saw it too. A total waste of my time. Boring, nothing new. Really disappointing for a program like Profiel.

As for the debate: the debate isnt going to be what title Maxima will get, it's going to be about the monarchy. Not that its in danger, but it's only logical that when the crown gets passed, it is the right time for a debate like that. I doubt anyone is going to say "we want a monarchy, but we feel maxima should remain a princess".

 

[Maxie]

I agree, prinsesbeagle. I saw it too and when it ended I was like: 'When are they going to tell us something new? Or is this just another show full of self centered journalists who all want to say something about Maxima on national television?' Not very interesting indeed. The only thing I hadn't seen before where the stupid remarks of W-A on the Videla regime, several weeks before the engagement.

 

[Roxsteve]

I think that it is fun to watch and follow royals, but if you really think about it, countries could do much more with those millions than support royals in 2006/07. We should have royals, but they should work like everyone else. I don't care if they write their own speeches, or represent the country, or even if they are involved in many charities...it is obsolete in this day and age. Don't get me wrong, it is fun to read about them, but is it really necessary to pay them so much money??? I think monarchies will disappear sooner than later.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Countries with monarchies generally pay far less for them than republics do for their Presidents. For example, you could have 5 British Royal Families for the cost of 1 US President.

 

[Roxsteve]

Countries with monarchies generally pay far less for them than republics do for their Presidents. For example, you could have 5 British Royal Families for the cost of 1 US President.

An "elected" US President.

 

[Maxie]

An "elected" US President.

There will always be people who didn't vote for that elected president and be as unhappy with it as there are republicans in monarchies who are unhappy with the monarch they also didn't choose for. I'd rather have my Queen Beatrix representing my country abroad in a dignified and apolitical manner (that's what she's been trained for since well ehm ever) than some guy I didn't vote for and whose ideas I really don't like. But that's me an that's my opinion. It's all a matter of perception, actually. I'm used to living in a monarchy, others are used to living in republics. As long as there's democracy going on and it suits the people of the country, I don't see why it should be abolished.

But I think we'd better go back to the Analysis of Maxima. There are more than enough other threads for discussing this interesting topic.

 

[Verde Esmeralda]

Ineke Holthuis was the (Volkskrant?) correspondant who found out Maxima's name first. She commented on the father ('a messenger-boy of the rich landowners') and that Maxima was not of the highest class, the argentinian landaristocracy but the upper middle class.

Mmmm I recently read (again) some Argentinian magazines from the wedding, back in 2002. And believe me, her friend's last names (the friends she brought to the wedding) are definitely not upper-middle

 

[Verde Esmeralda]

I admire their ability to listen to the best of PR strategists!

Or, in such a cleverly planned and orchestrated and strategized way. This is a clever PR trick they use to influence exactly those politicians who don't really warm for the concept of the monarchy.

Princess Olga,

I couldn't agree more with this post, and the following one. As a PR let me tell you, this is 'royal lobbying', not natural-born kindness. Clever, though!

 

[Marengo]

Not only royal lobbying, I think there is more to it. The couple, as Crownprinccess Beatrix and the late Prince Claus in the seventies, wants to get an insight in Dutch society. They probably get the conservative/liberal ideas from their own circle but to get an insight in the other political parties would come in handy to.

 

[Marengo]

Mmmm I recently read (again) some Argentinian magazines from the wedding, back in 2002. And believe me, her friend's last names (the friends she brought to the wedding) are definitely not upper-middle

No? What are they then? I assume the second cousin that is a pole dancer (but did not attend the wedding) would be considered lower class, but the rest of the family connections to?

 

[Verde Esmeralda]

No? What are they then? I assume the second cousin that is a pole dancer (but did not attend the wedding) would be considered lower class, but the rest of the family connections to?

mmm that girl claimed she had a non-direct family connection to Maxima, and used that to get promotion (and I believe she got offers to make her show in some discos in NL)... so I wouldn't count her in.

Regarding the people I mentioned (friends who attended the wedding), their surnames are 'aristocratic', they belong to very traditional families around here...

I believe Willem-Alexander (and the Queen afterwards) must have also took this into consideration, since she and her family where never ridiculously rich, but VERY well-positioned indeed.

 

[Verde Esmeralda]

Not only royal lobbying, I think there is more to it. The couple, as Crownprinccess Beatrix and the late Prince Claus in the seventies, wants to get an insight in Dutch society. They probably get the conservative/liberal ideas from their own circle but to get an insight in the other political parties would come in handy to.

I do not completely disagree, Marengo, I'm sure that they are interested - after all, they SHOULD, since they will reign in the 21st century...nevertheless, there is PR counselling behind this.

 

[Princess Maxima]

Can any of our Dutch members translate this article please? Thanks

Verdonk: Máxima moet pas inleveren
Aftredend minister Verdonk vindt dat prinses Máxima haar Argentijnse nationaliteit moet opgeven. Verdonk zei dat gisteravond in het televisieporgramma Nova.
De VVD-minister, die volgende week plaatsmaakt voor het nieuwe kabinet, meent dat ministers en Kamerleden én ook de echtgenote van prins Willem-Alexander moeten 'uitstralen' dat ze bij Nederland horen. Het hebben van een dubbele nationaliteit is daarbij niet passend.
Volgens Verdonk zou ook aanstaand staatssecretaris Nebahat Albayrak _ die een Nederlands en een Turks paspoort heeft _ haar buitenlandse paspoort moeten opgeven.
De minister vergat dat Albayrak een keuze heeft _ Turkije staat het opgeven van de nationaliteit toe _ maar prinses Máxima en aanstaand staatssecretaris Ahmed Aboutaleb (met ook een Marokkaans paspoort) niet. Zowel Argentinië als Marokko laten het opgeven van de eigen nationaliteit niet toe.
De kwestie van de dubbele nationaliteit kwam donderdag ter sprake toen de partij van Geert Wilders in de Tweede Kamer via een motie de aanstelling van Albayrak en Aboutaleb wilde verhinderen. Volgens Wilders zouden ze niet geschikt zijn als bewindslieden vanwege hun dubbele nationaliteit en daaruit volgens hem voortvloeiende 'dubbele loyaliteit'.

royal blog

 

[Henri M.]

There was a discussion in the Second Chamber because two of the new state secretaries in the new Cabinet do have dual citizenship: mrs. Nebahat Albayrak (Labour Party, state secretary of Justice) is Dutch/Turkish and mr. Ahmed Aboutaleb (Labour Party, state secretary of Social Affairs) is Dutch/Moroccoan.

A small nationalistic party made a riot in the Chamber by trying to block the appointment of these two state-secretaries because of their dual citizenships: it would also imply 'dual loyalties'.

The outgoing minister of Immigration, mrs. Rita Verdonk (Liberals) stated that Princess Máxima should give up her Argentinean nationality as well. This caused some upheaval in media and mrs. Verdonk apparently forgot that Morocco and Argentina do not allow their citizens to give up their citizenship. And she also forgot that Queen Beatrix has two nationalities as well.

 

[carlota]

There was a discussion in the Second Chamber because two of the new state secretaries in the new Cabinet do have dual citizenship: mrs. Nebahat Albayrak (Labour Party, state secretary of Justice) is Dutch/Turkish and mr. Ahmed Aboutaleb (Labour Party, state secretary of Social Affairs) is Dutch/Moroccoan.

A small nationalistic party made a riot in the Chamber by trying to block the appointment of these two state-secretaries because of their dual citizenships: it would also imply 'dual loyalties'.

The outgoing minister of Immigration, mrs. Rita Verdonk (Liberals) stated that Princess Máxima should give up her Argentinean nationality as well. This caused some upheaval in media and mrs. Verdonk apparently forgot that Morocco and Argentina do not allow their citizens to give up their citizenship. And she also forgot that Queen Beatrix has two nationalities as well.

interesting anecdote! what a slip from the minister....