Abdications

[Somebody]

It will be interesting to see whether Margrethe's Scandinavian fellow monarch will follow her example and now also feel the freedom to abdicate. Especially in Harald's case, he hasn't been able to fulfill his duties as king quite regularly (based on the many regencies by Haakon). However, as others pointed out, Sonja is still very much available as an active royal, while Mette Marit is not, so for now it seems this is the way that works best for them with Sonja and Haakon as the backbone of the monarchy. In addition, it might be good if Harald 'solved' the Märtha Louise issue, so Haakon doesn't have to.

I don't expect an abdication by Carl Gustaf any time soon, although of course Victoria is completely ready to ascend the throne.

I still expect an abdication in Luxembourg - however, it might be delayed a little bit because of Guillaume's young family. Had their children been a little older, Henri might have handed over the throne a bit sooner.

 

[Saragli]

I can't see King Harald abdicating while he has Queen Sonja. The King has had many health issues but he still has lots of energy and seems to be free of pain unlike dear Aunt Daisy. I'm not sure about KCG, Estelle is still young and he his very fit. But I do think QMII abdicating really paves the way, she was a bastion of the old ways and conceding this is a wise move.

 

[tommy100]

Luxembourg wise I suspect one in either 2025 or 2030 when Henri will have served 25 or 30 years and be either 70 or 75 respectively. I suspect as his father did for him he will appoint Guillaume as lieutenant representative before hand so we will have more warning than in Denmark now.

 

[Friedrich Karl II]

Luxembourg wise I suspect one in either 2025 or 2030 when Henri will have served 25 or 30 years and be either 70 or 75 respectively. I suspect as his father did for him he will appoint Guillaume as lieutenant representative before hand so we will have more warning than in Denmark now.

I think that it would be ratherly in 2030 since Guillaume's and Stéphanie's children are pretty young yet. Even yet in2030 Charles would be only ten years old.

 

[W.Y.CII]

Henri was nine when he became HGD and her older sister was ten at that time. A more recent example we have C-A who became PoO at nine. So I don't think the age of the future heir apparent is a really main concern, at least in Luxembourg. Anyway I'm guessing we will see abdication from Luxembourg in 2030-2035, after Henri celebrates his 30th anniversary of accession and before he turns 80.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Eric III of Denmark abdicated in 1146 and later entered St. Canute's Abbey in Odense ,where died in August of that year.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

If the Norwegian Royal Family had even two extra available members willing to undertake royal duties for the next decade or so, I think King Harald would probably seriously consider retirement, considering his fragile state of health. The family doesn’t however, and with MM not in good health either and Prss Ingrid-Alexandra still with several years of tertiary education before her the King has to soldier on.

As much as Harald and Sonja may want to abdicate and retire, i’m afraid they can’t do that without leaving Haakon almost completely alone at the palace…. Frederik will have a great deal of help from his wife, his aunt Benedikte, and occasionally from his brother and sister in law, before his children have finished their educations and starts to take on royal duties….

Haakon is not that fortunate His wife is chronically ill, and his sister is totally unreliable and cannot be trusted with anything

It will be interesting to see whether Margrethe's Scandinavian fellow monarch will follow her example and now also feel the freedom to abdicate. Especially in Harald's case, he hasn't been able to fulfill his duties as king quite regularly (based on the many regencies by Haakon). However, as others pointed out, Sonja is still very much available as an active royal, while Mette Marit is not, so for now it seems this is the way that works best for them with Sonja and Haakon as the backbone of the monarchy. In addition, it might be good if Harald 'solved' the Märtha Louise issue, so Haakon doesn't have to.

I can't see King Harald abdicating while he has Queen Sonja.

King Harald not abdicating has nothing to do with him having Queen Sonja by his side or CP Mette-Marit being ill, it's simply because he believes that being monarch is something you are for life!

Because in contrast to QMII, who used to say in interviews that she wouldn't abdicate if she didn't become too ill or something, King Harald has been crystal clear!

Here's an interview with Dagens Næringsliv in 2019 (link). Unfortunately, you must be a subscriber to read it. But let's translate the part about abdication:

Interviewer: The King has had some health challenges in recent years and has reached an old age. What does the King think about the possibility of handing over the throne to the Crown Prince before it becomes strictly necessary?

King Harald: ''Jeg har avlagt en ed til Stortinget som jeg mener varer livet ut. Så enkelt er det.''
''I have taken an oath to the Storting, which I mean lasts for life. It's that simple.''

Interviewer: There will be no difference here from King Olav's way?

King Harald: ''Nei, og ikke kong Haakons heller. Men sånn som det er blitt, de to gangene jeg har opplevd tronskifter, har kongen vært sykmeldt det siste halvannet året. Da har kronprinsen blitt regent og kommet inn i tralten. Det er blitt tradisjon i dette landet for at vi holder på til the bitter end.''

''No, and not King Haakon's either. But as it has been the two times I have experienced changes to the throne, the King has been on sick leave for the past year and a half. Then the Crown Prince has become regent and gotten used to things. It has become a tradition in this country for us to hold on until the bitter end.''


And in the 2020 book ''Kongen forteller'' (''the King tells'') by the political journalist Harald Stanghelle, King Harald said: ''Når man har avlagt ed til Stortinget, så varer den livet ut. Så enkelt er det for meg. Vi holder på til «the bitter end». Det er noe med at Kongen er død, leve Kongen!''

''Once you have taken an oath to the Storting, it lasts for life. It's that simple for me. We're at it until the bitter end. There is something about the King is dead, long live the King!''

He also says in the book that it will be ''bra'' with Haakon as king when the time comes and that it gives him a good feeling to know that
(''bra'' can be translated to both good and fine).
Read more in this article from Nettavisen (link). Google translation (link).

Another thing he says in the book is that it's good to have something to do and that he hopes that what he does is meaningful.

I also think I've heard him say in an interview some years ago that ''a king is either dead or alive!''

--------------------

The King has had many health issues but he still has lots of energy and seems to be free of pain unlike dear Aunt Daisy.

He is known to suffer from back and leg pains and had knee surgery in 2021.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

The political journalist and former editor Harald Stanghelle, who intertwined King Harald several times for his 2020 book ''Kongen forteller'' (''the King tells''), and NRK's long-serving royal expert/commentator Kristi Marie Skrede were guests at the debate-program Dagsnytt 18 on Tuesday (link).

Harald Stanghelle said that King Harald had been crystal clear that abdication is not for him and that the abdication of QMII would not lead to any pressure on King Harald to do the same.

Kristi Marie Skrede (who most likely has sources in the court) said that King Harald and Queen Sonja will have a packed program in 2024 and that they both eagerly talked about their coming visits around the country when she interviewed them in December.
Skrede also said that all the people around the King (i.e. the RF and the court) are working with him so that he can live up to his royal motto ''Alt for Norge'' (''All for Norway'') and be monarch for the rest of his life.
She also said that the King gives the impression that he is motivated ''til å stå løpet ut'' (''to stand the race out''), better described as that he is motivated to continue for the rest of his life.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Unlike in Denmark and Sweden, abdication is almost never mentioned in the Norwegian media, and there are almost never any polls about it. But after the news from Denmark, that has changed a bit.
Because now the research company InFact has made a poll for the online newspaper Nettavisen, where they ask:

Do you want King Harald to sit as king for as long as he lives?
Yes, he has committed himself to that, 63,5%.
No, he should consider abdicating, 20,1%
Don't know, 16,4%.

Age 18-29:
Stay for life: 66,8%.
Consider abdicating: 24,6%.
Don't know: 8,5%.

Age 30-44:
Stay for life: 62,4%.
Consider abdicating: 21,1%.
Don't know: 16,5%.

Age 45-64:
Stay for life: 57%.
Consider abdicating: 21,1%.
Don't know: 22%.

Aged over 65:
Stay for life: 71,5%.
Consider abdicating: 14%.
Don't know: 14,5%.

Nettavisen has also done an online poll among their readers, where 70% wanted him to stay for life (you must have an account to see the results).

Read more here (link). Google Translation (link).

In the article, you can also read a comment from Nettavisens royal expert Tove Taalesen, who was butler to King Harald and Queen Sonja from 2007 to 2017. She is also sometimes used as an expert by TV2.

She says the following: ''Dette viser at Kongen er i takt med folket sitt.
Vi har ingen tradisjon for å abdisere. Det er ikke et sånt type monarki vi har.
Kong Harald er en trygg havn for oss, uansett hva som skjer i verden, og det har han forstått. Her viser han god rolleforståelse. Han sier helt rett at enten så er han konge, eller så er han død.

''This shows that the King is in step with his people.
We have no tradition of abdicating. That's not the kind of monarchy we have.
King Harald is a safe haven for us, no matter what happens in the world, and he has understood that. Here he shows a good understanding of the role. He quite rightly says that either he is king or he is dead.''

Taalesen is critical of QMII and says: ''Hun har vist at hun har luksusen av å kunne velge dronningrollen, som om det er en hvilken som helst jobb. Da vakler monarkiet, og kongehuset er svekket. Jeg mener monark er noe man er, ikke noe man gjør.''

''She has shown that she has the luxury of being able to choose the role of Queen, as if it were any other job. Then the monarchy falters, and the Royal House is weakened. I mean, a monarch is something you are, not something you do.''

Well, perhaps Taalesen should just respect that other monarchs do things in a different way than King Harald!

 

[Somebody]

It is quite rich to accuse someone who is clearly in visible pain and has had to conclude that she can no longer fulfil the role of queen to the level that she deems necessary and who has served her country as queen for 52 years to take her role lightly as if it were a luxury to abdicate.

Is it also a luxury that Harald quite often temporarily lays down his duties by making Haakon the regent for a while during one of his many health issues? I don't think so... In those times Harald does what is needed in his eyes and Margrethe is also doing what is needed in her eyes.

 

[victor1319]

This talk about a Norwegian abdication is especially questionable, if one considers, that the actual Norwegian Monarchy is roughly just about 100 and something years old, while the Danish one over 1 000.

Apples and pears...

 

[tommy100]

Interesting to see how Norway feel about a possible abdication - the King has spoken about not abdicating and it seems he can feel comfortable in knowing his people support him in that.

 

[PhillyMonarchist]

The political journalist and former editor Harald Stanghelle, who intertwined King Harald several times for his 2020 book ''Kongen forteller'' (''the King tells''), and NRK's long-serving royal expert/commentator Kristi Marie Skrede were guests at the debate-program Dagsnytt 18 on Tuesday (link).

Harald Stanghelle said that King Harald had been crystal clear that abdication is not for him and that the abdication of QMII would not lead to any pressure on King Harald to do the same.

Kristi Marie Skrede (who most likely has sources in the court) said that King Harald and Queen Sonja will have a packed program in 2024 and that they both eagerly talked about their coming visits around the country when she interviewed them in December.
Skrede also said that all the people around the King (i.e. the RF and the court) are working with him so that he can live up to his royal motto ''Alt for Norge'' (''All for Norway'') and be monarch for the rest of his life.
She also said that the King gives the impression that he is motivated ''til å stå løpet ut'' (''to stand the race out''), better described as that he is motivated to continue for the rest of his life.

think haakon and ingrid will do the same?

 

[Hans-Rickard]

Monarchies would also be weekened by creating a regency that could possibly go on for another 10 years before succession happens for natural causes…

It may have worked when King George III was alive but it certainly wouldn’t work in todays society without people starts to question why the Monarch doesn’t abdicate if he or she doesn’t plan to work anymore…

I admit i personally also struggles with the thought of abdications but there is no reason to not have full confidence in Queen Margrethe if she after 52 years as Queen Regnant and despite her view that the job is for life, has landed in the conclusion that she can no longer do it and decides to step down fully and completely…. No one should doubt that it is a decision she has not taken lightly !

I remember a time where people (including myself) were highly critical of the late Prince Henrik for his irrational behaviour and for his decision to suddenly withdraw from activities and then stop working …. What we did not know was that he was under examination for (and was subsequently diagnosed with) dementia…. That’s why we should always be careful with harsh words….. We rarely know the full picture of what’s going on….

 

[Sister Morphine]

It is quite rich to accuse someone who is clearly in visible pain and has had to conclude that she can no longer fulfil the role of queen to the level that she deems necessary and who has served her country as queen for 52 years to take her role lightly as if it were a luxury to abdicate.

Is it also a luxury that Harald quite often temporarily lays down his duties by making Haakon the regent for a while during one of his many health issues? I don't think so... In those times Harald does what is needed in his eyes and Margrethe is also doing what is needed in her eyes.

Considering not once in the 900+ year history of the Danish monarchy has a king/queen abdicated, I'd say QMII gave it plenty of thought before making her decision. I'm sure she weighed the historical implications of what she decided against what it would mean for her personally and physically. She's 83. She might very well live another 20 years, you never know, but maybe she'd rather have a better quality of life for those 20 years. As the expression goes, it's not always the years in your life but the life in your years.

It was horribly disrespectful for that woman to make those comments.

 

[Stefan]

Monarchies would also be weekened by creating a regency that could possibly go on for another 10 years before succession happens for natural causes…

It may have worked when King George III was alive but it certainly wouldn’t work in todays society without people starts to question why the Monarch doesn’t abdicate if he or she doesn’t plan to work anymore…

In Liechtenstein it works perfect but then i think that Regency lasts no already much too long. But then the worklad of the reigning Prince there is very different to other monarchs.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

In Liechtenstein it works perfect but then i think that Regency lasts no already much too long. But then the worklad of the reigning Prince there is very different to other monarchs.

I had completely forgot about Liechtenstein… Though i agree that the current arrangement there has been going on for far too long… Alois won’t get much time as the actual Head of State, before he is expected to hand over the power to Joseph-Wenzel

 

[Stefan]

I had completely forgot about Liechtenstein… Though i agree that the current arrangement there has been going on for far too long… Alois won’t get much time as the actual Head of State, before he is expected to hand over the power to Joseph-Wenzel

In my opinion Hans Adam appointed Alois much to soon as Regent as he was not even 60 years old at that time. But that was of political reasons.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

It is quite rich to accuse someone who is clearly in visible pain and has had to conclude that she can no longer fulfil the role of queen to the level that she deems necessary and who has served her country as queen for 52 years to take her role lightly as if it were a luxury to abdicate.

Considering not once in the 900+ year history of the Danish monarchy has a king/queen abdicated, I'd say QMII gave it plenty of thought before making her decision. I'm sure she weighed the historical implications of what she decided against what it would mean for her personally and physically. She's 83. She might very well live another 20 years, you never know, but maybe she'd rather have a better quality of life for those 20 years. As the expression goes, it's not always the years in your life but the life in your years.

It was horribly disrespectful for that woman to make those comments.

And Tove Taalesen didn't stop there because she has also written an opinion piece where she again praises King Harald and criticises QMII (link). Google translation (link).

Quotes:
''Enten er jeg konge eller så er jeg død. Det er kong Harald egne ord. For ham er det utenkelig å overlate oppgavene som konge av Norge til kronprins Haakon før han selv har gått ut av tiden.''

"Either I'm king or I'm dead. These are King Harald's own words. For him, it is unthinkable to hand over the tasks as king of Norway to Crown Prince Haakon before he himself has gone out of time.''

''Det er urolige tider i Europa, men uansett hva som skjer i verden står kong Harald som en bauta – en trygghet for oss. Norge har en klok konge som står stødig uansett hvor mye det blåser rundt ham, resten av familien og i de andre europeiske kongehusene.
Kong Harald viser en særdeles god rolleforståelse for en helt unik, og litt rar posisjon.''

''There are troubled times in Europe, but regardless of what happens in the world, King Harald stands like a bulwark - a security for us. Norway has a wise king who stands firm no matter how much it blows around him, the rest of the family and in the other European Royal Houses.
King Harald shows a particularly good understanding of the role for a completely unique and somewhat strange position.''

''Kong Harald er en ekte folkekonge. Og kan ikke, og skal ikke overgi tronen til kronprinsen.''

''King Harald is the people's king. And cannot, and shall not, surrender the throne to the crown prince.''

''Å være konge er ikke en rolle man velger eller velger bort. Da er hele poenget med monarkiet borte. En abdikasjon er første skritt på veien til en republikk.
Om kong Harald abdiserer vil det være starten på slutten av monarkiet i Norge.''

''Being king is not a role you choose or opt out of. Then the whole point of the monarchy is gone. An abdication is the first step on the road to a republic.
If King Harald abdicates, it will be the beginning of the end of the monarchy in Norway.''

There I actually think she is right!
I mean, abdication in Norway would most likely create a lot of debate about the monarchy in the media and in the parliament. And we will most likely hear sentences like this one: Oh, they claim a birthright to the throne, but they just choose to quit; well, then we can have an elected apolitical constitutional president instead.

--------------------

think haakon and ingrid will do the same?

A bit difficult to say since I don't remember if Haakon has mentioned anything about abdication before. But he has described both his grandfather and father as role models, so perhaps he sees them as role models when it comes to their stances on abdication as well.

 

[Blog Real]

I think that abdications will become an increasingly natural and normal thing in monarchies. And I think the people understand when their king decides to abdicate.
I think that in Denmark people understood the reasons why Queen Margrethe II decided to abdicate.

I think it might be good for kings to have the opportunity to rest in the last years of their lives while they still enjoy some health. And have the opportunity to enjoy more of their family, children, grandchildren, siblings and friends and to do the things they like to do. This after having served their country for decades.

I think that a king should not be forced to carry out his duties until the day he dies. Especially when the king is already sick and weakened.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

That is indeed the risk with abdications in countries where people are not used to it, that people sooner or later starts to question the point of having a royal family, if there is no visible difference to an elected president…

Still i think most people will understand if an aging and ailing monarch chooses to step aside in the end for obvious health reasons…

Queen Margrethe turns 84 this year. If she lives for as long as Queen Elizabeth, that could have meant a regency for 12 consecutive years… I think neither the danish people, the royal court, nor folketinget would have found that as acceptable as Tove Taalesen seems to do..

It’s quite an ancient view in my opinion to imply that monarch’s cannot become too ill to work, like the rest of us…

 

[Saragli]

When people talk about modernizing monarchies they often focus on things like titles and imagery but the most meaningful modernization to me is when the monarchy works with people to evolve long held notions. Normalizing abdications is an essential tool in modernizing the monarchy. People are living so much longer these days so the old notion of being the monarch till the bitter end doesn't work as well anymore.

So for me it is interesting to see how these nations new to abdications are handling it. In my opinion, it is a shame that none of them have followed the Dutch example which to me makes the most sense. I always loved the quote from one of the previous Dutch queens when asked why she reverted back to being a princess after abdicating that went along the lines of "I was born a princess, and I shall die a princess". To me, King/Queen is the job and when one stands down or widowed one should no longer carry that title. Princess Beatrix was a fabulous monarch and is now still a fabulous semi-retired princess. To me, the Dutch example is perfect and should be the standard.

 

[Somebody]

Queen Juliana is an excellent example of why abdication in some circumstances is the best (imho only viable) option. She had dementia and didn't even recognize her own husband at the end of her life. Her memory started to seriously decline as early as 1987, she was most likely officially diagnosed with dementia sometime in the 90s, was last seen in 1998 (at her grandson's wedding) and lived until 2005. Do the people in Norway really think it would have been best for the country if in such circumstances, she would have remained head of state? I doubt the sentiment would have been 'we need to become a republic instead of the heir taking over' or would have happily remained a monarchy with a head of state who was nowhere to be seen and had no functioning memory whatsoever.

 

[Friedrich Karl II]

Me too believe that abdications will become more common at least on European monarchies. People are living longer and longer but still have lot of age-related health issues. It not make lot of sense that monarch spends most of his/her time on bed or even on hospital when could abdicate. Before there was co-kings or even regency but on nowadays it not make really sense.


So monarchies inevitably will see ratherly abdications than monarch serving to his/her last breath.


And same thing I can see happening with popes (they are too monarchs altough elected ones) since it not really make sense that leader of Catholic Church has lot of health issues but not abdicate. Many of us probably remember pople John Paul II. Him had Parkinson and really struggled from abdication and was on his last years visibly in poor health. And already on that time was lot of discussion about abdications. And imaginate even worsely if pope is diagnised with Alzheimer.

 

[Mbruno]

Queen Juliana is an excellent example of why abdication in some circumstances is the best (imho only viable) option. She had dementia and didn't even recognize her own husband at the end of her life. Her memory started to seriously decline as early as 1987, she was most likely officially diagnosed with dementia sometime in the 90s, was last seen in 1998 (at her grandson's wedding) and lived until 2005. Do the people in Norway really think it would have been best for the country if in such circumstances, she would have remained head of state? I doubt the sentiment would have been 'we need to become a republic instead of the heir taking over' or would have happily remained a monarchy with a head of state who was nowhere to be seen and had no functioning memory whatsoever.

The answer of people who oppose abdications to your argument (especially in the UK) is that, if the monarch had dementia, a regent would take over the royal prerogative. In fact, that is what the regency acts are for.

Me too believe that abdications will become more common at least on European monarchies. People are living longer and longer but still have lot of age-related health issues. It not make lot of sense that monarch spends most of his/her time on bed or even on hospital when could abdicate. Before there was co-kings or even regency but on nowadays it not make really sense.

So monarchies inevitably will see ratherly abdications than monarch serving to his/her last breath.

Abdication is probably likely to become the standard, except when it is legally very difficult to abdicate, which again is the case in the UK because of the shared monarchy with the Commonwealth realms. If all the Commonwealth realms other than the UK became republics, which is unlikely in the near future, then the British monarch would be in a similar position as his continental European peers and abdication would be made simpler.

Of course, the religious nature of the British monarch's coronation, despite being irrelevant to the legal succession to the Crown, is nonetheless also a deterrence to abdication.

More broadly, looking at the European monarchies as a whole, one possible concern is that, as abdications become default, older monarchs (maybe anyone over 75 or 80) may come under pressure to step down, which undermines their constitutional safeguards in my humble opinion.

Basically I am saying that we might start seeing a reverse of what was the case in the past. Previously, abdication was seen as a dereliction of duty and monarchs who abdicated were normally kings who were in practice overthrown or were deemed unfit to rule. In the future, a monarch who is still fit and diligently performs his/her duties might be cast in a negative light for not "retiring" when he/she reaches a certain age.

 

[Durham]

I agree with all of the above. I would rather it didn't happen in the UK but that's not to criticise what happens in other countries. There shouldn't be some one size fits all.

Anointing & crowning monarchs doesn't make much sense if everyone knows/presumes that they will abdicate at some point in the future. Fate or God (whatever one's opinion) decides who is the monarch & when they will reign.

A regency is not a problem. All of the realms bar one do not have a resident monarch. A regent in the UK would act much as GG's do in these other realms.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

During a visit to the Norwegian Press House in Oslo today, King Harald and CP Haakon gave a press conference, which was the first time the media had met the King since it became known that QMII would abdicate.

And when a reporter asked if the King had changed his mind about abdication after the news from Denmark, the King (with Haakon sitting loyally beside him) said the following:
''Jeg fastholder det jeg har sagt hele tiden; at jeg har avlagt en ed til Stortinget, og den varer livet ut.''
''I stand by what I have said all along; that I have taken an oath to the Storting, and that it lasts for life.''

VG-article (link). Google translation (link).

 

[Minister of Court]

Good on Harald! A true blueblood who knows being a monarch is not something one does but something one is. You can’t just give it up. Not many of his breed left.

 

[An Ard Ri]

I was wondering if King Harald would make a comment and I'm glad that he has confirmed his position on the matter.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

I hope the media will now respect his decision to reign until the end of his life, and not haunt him with the same questions over and over again…

Everyone quickly accepted and respected Queen Margrethe’s decision to abdicate… I hope the same accept and respect will be shown to monarch’s who have landed in a different decision too!