A potential bride for The Grand Duke Georgi

[Alexey 1904]

Baroness of Books original post said about Gabriella converting to Orthodox religion. Second post is a typo.

 

[nithsdale]

I'm confused by this post! These are not potential brides for hereditary grand duke George.

The purpose of that post was to prove that lots of German Royal and princely families members STILL marry equally, because in some of previous posts it was mentioned that they don't

 

[RoseMary]

Hopefully he finds someone who qualifies as both equal and one he cares for. Obviously I hope for his sake it is someone he cares for.

 

[la vie en rose]

I suspect it may already be serious if they are being open about it and it is in point de vue.

I found some other pictures of Grand Duc Georges and Miss Rebecca Bettarini.
for who might be interested....it doesnt look like they are doing bad at all. and these pictures are quite recent

GrandDuke, Rebecca Bettarini | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Grand Duc, M.lle Rebecca Bettarini | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

GranDuc Georges | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/97760731@N07/9093497122/ this was in a news paper in a Montecarlo magazine

 

[COUNTESS]

Good for him. Lots of good fortune.

 

[USCtrojan]

This is exciting! Do we know anything about her? Is she aristocracy? Orthodox?

 

[Lenora]

This is exciting! Do we know anything about her? Is she aristocracy? Orthodox?

She is neither aristocratic nor Orthodox.
She was born into a rich family and was raised as Catholic.

 

[Biri]

But he should marry her, if he really loves her and she him.

 

[USCtrojan]

But he should marry her, if he really loves her and she him.

I agree! They look sweet!

 

[USCtrojan]

She is neither aristocratic nor Orthodox.
She was born into a rich family and was raised as Catholic.

Is she Swiss? That is where they were living correct?

 

[Al_bina]

She is neither aristocratic nor Orthodox.
She was born into a rich family and was raised as Catholic.

[my bolding]
A wife from a rich family is not bad at all for Grand Duke Georgi. He could follow Crown Prince Pavlos' example.

 

[COUNTESS]

You are right. This could be very good for him and, hopefully, for her, too.

 

[NGalitzine]

She is neither aristocratic nor Orthodox.
She was born into a rich family and was raised as Catholic.

Momma is going to have fun explaining why a rich Catholic commoner is OK for her son, but Russian, Orthodox, aristocratic brides were not OK for other family members.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

Grand Duchess Maria doesn't have to explain her decisions. Her Imperial Highness is the Head of the Russian Imperial House, and she change and amend the House Laws anytime she wants to do this. Only the blessing from the Russian Orthodox Church is necessary.

What the other Romanovs will think has no importance.

 

[NGalitzine]

Perhaps but with that family nothing is simple or easy, although frequently comical. Cyril and Vladmir and even Maria claimed that the rules were the rules and could not be changed, so to change them now to suit Maria and Georgi will obviously give rise to lots of comments. Of course she could do as Karl Habsburg has apparently done, and simply demorganautize (sic) all of the other Romanovs in the interest of family harmony but then family harmony has never been a big factor in the Romanovs even when they had a throne and a real position in the world.

 

[USCtrojan]

Grand Duchess Maria doesn't have to explain her decisions. Her Imperial Highness is the Head of the Russian Imperial House, and she change and amend the House Laws anytime she wants to do this. Only the blessing from the Russian Orthodox Church is necessary.

What the other Romanovs will think has no importance.

I would assume that as long as they agree to raise their children In the orthodox faith, that they would receive a blessing from the church.

Aleksander II and Maria de Gloria did, and obviously raised all three of their sons orthodox as they would one day head the house (Peter) and simply be the main faces of the amply, and this was a requirement.

I have hopes for this one

 

[COUNTESS]

If he loves her and she loves him, the rest is nonsense. There is nothing to protect, as it doesn't exist now, nor will it in the seeable future and these young people deserve a future. They can do whatever They think is best for themselves. The rest is theatre.

 

[Ish]

Her religion isn't necessarily important, as she can convert or they could chose to raise any children in the Orthodox Church.

However, there is a huge degree of hypocrisy given as Maria became the head of the house owing to the fact that she claims all male dynasts were the products of or entered into unequal marriages. If her son and heir were to then enter into an unequal marriage then he should lose his dynastic rights.

 

[COUNTESS]

Listen, you are right, but dynastic rights to what? Maria is a self-serving poster child for attention. She has this idea that somewhere from outer space she will be the Tsarina of Russia. The time has gone, 100 years ago. The Romanovs were selfish and heartless and rarely had the insight to see the condition of their nation. Who would want them back? It is anachronistic. She is just a lonely old woman, I think she is younger than I, who has made her life around a myth. Her son seems like a lovely young man, this young lady looks like a lovely young woman, let them live in peace and happiness.

 

[Ish]

You know what, Countess, in many ways I agree with you. Politically speaking, whoever the head of the Russian Imperial Family (or the Brazilian or German, or what have you) is largely unimportant. That they and their heirs continue to marry in accordance to house laws that date back to at best the time that the families were deposed is also, politically speaking, largely unimportant. It is highly unlikely that they or the monarchies to which they are attached will ever be restored, regardless of what the small group of monarchists wish. That doesn't mean that it doesn't continue to be significant who these individuals marry or who the head of the house is, or the heir, or what not. It is important to these individuals and it is important to their supporters.

Maria Vladimirovna is a woman who has spent a good portion of her adult life fighting to be recognized as the head of her house and to have her son recognized as her heir, so clearly to her this all is important. This thread is about potential spouses for Georgiy and takes into consideration equal marriages and the rules of succession to the head of his house because regardless of the chance of his or his descendants ever being the Tsar of Russia, or his marriage being of any political significance, it is something that is important in his house - as stressed by his mother.

We're not here debating the likelihood of a Russian restoration or even Maria Vladimirovna's claim to her position. We're merely discussing potential wives in accordance to the guidelines present to us. If you don't want to discuss that then why come into this thread? If you want to argue against the continuation of dynastic marriages in royal houses (be they reigning or non-reigning), that's another issue altogether. Personally, I'm not a fan, although I do see some of the benefit of it - in my opinion, non-reigning houses have to continue living by the succession rules that were in place prior to deposition if they wish to continue to make a claim to whatever throne they were deposed from. BrazilianEmpire is in support of dynastic marriages and has argued that they're a continuation of tradition and remain important because as the family is deposed the only way children can learn to be royal is from two royal parents.

As to monarchies being anachronistic to modern life, I personally don't agree. While absolute monarchies are anachronistic within western, democratic society (and I hope that one day they will be globally), the majority of monarchies seen today are not absolute. In fact, at the time that most European monarchies were deposed absolute monarchies were anachronistic - even a hundred years ago. A number of these monarchies, including the Russian one, were deposed because while they were making changes they weren't doing so fast enough for the people. The chance of an absolute monarchy being restored in Europe is pretty slim, but that doesn't mean that a constitutional monarchy can't be restored, even in a place where the previous monarchy wasn't constitutional. In fact if you study history you'll see that most restorations tend to have limitations placed on the powers of the monarch, limitations that have only grown with the passage of time.

 

[USCtrojan]

You know what, Countess, in many ways I agree with you. Politically speaking, whoever the head of the Russian Imperial Family (or the Brazilian or German, or what have you) is largely unimportant. That they and their heirs continue to marry in accordance to house laws that date back to at best the time that the families were deposed is also, politically speaking, largely unimportant. It is highly unlikely that they or the monarchies to which they are attached will ever be restored, regardless of what the small group of monarchists wish. That doesn't mean that it doesn't continue to be significant who these individuals marry or who the head of the house is, or the heir, or what not. It is important to these individuals and it is important to their supporters. Maria Vladimirovna is a woman who has spent a good portion of her adult life fighting to be recognized as the head of her house and to have her son recognized as her heir, so clearly to her this all is important. This thread is about potential spouses for Georgiy and takes into consideration equal marriages and the rules of succession to the head of his house because regardless of the chance of his or his descendants ever being the Tsar of Russia, or his marriage being of any political significance, it is something that is important in his house - as stressed by his mother. We're not here debating the likelihood of a Russian restoration or even Maria Vladimirovna's claim to her position. We're merely discussing potential wives in accordance to the guidelines present to us. If you don't want to discuss that then why come into this thread? If you want to argue against the continuation of dynastic marriages in royal houses (be they reigning or non-reigning), that's another issue altogether. Personally, I'm not a fan, although I do see some of the benefit of it - in my opinion, non-reigning houses have to continue living by the succession rules that were in place prior to deposition if they wish to continue to make a claim to whatever throne they were deposed from. BrazilianEmpire is in support of dynastic marriages and has argued that they're a continuation of tradition and remain important because as the family is deposed the only way children can learn to be royal is from two royal parents. As to monarchies being anachronistic to modern life, I personally don't agree. While absolute monarchies are anachronistic within western, democratic society (and I hope that one day they will be globally), the majority of monarchies seen today are not absolute. In fact, at the time that most European monarchies were deposed absolute monarchies were anachronistic - even a hundred years ago. A number of these monarchies, including the Russian one, were deposed because while they were making changes they weren't doing so fast enough for the people. The chance of an absolute monarchy being restored in Europe is pretty slim, but that doesn't mean that a constitutional monarchy can't be restored, even in a place where the previous monarchy wasn't constitutional. In fact if you study history you'll see that most restorations tend to have limitations placed on the powers of the monarch, limitations that have only grown with the passage of time.

Well said, Ish! Thanks!

 

[AristoCat]

I think that Georgi is barely Russian as it is and a wife who is foreign will end up just diluting what Russian blood he has left even more. It's not like she's even connected with Russia in any way.

It is a pity that Georgi isn't interested in a Russian; as for Maria, she has tirelessly fought for her position (and that of her son) and I wonder how on earth she would end up being successful if in fact she ended up with an Italian socialite Catholic daughter-in-law.

Her religion isn't necessarily important, as she can convert or they could chose to raise any children in the Orthodox Church.

She would have to end up converting before marriage.

However, there is a huge degree of hypocrisy given as Maria became the head of the house owing to the fact that she claims all male dynasts were the products of or entered into unequal marriages. If her son and heir were to then enter into an unequal marriage then he should lose his dynastic rights.

The irony is, that a lot of the other dyansts married aristocrats, not royals and yet this woman is a commoner with no aristocratic title.

 

[COUNTESS]

You know what, Countess, in many ways I agree with you. Politically speaking, whoever the head of the Russian Imperial Family (or the Brazilian or German, or what have you) is largely unimportant. That they and their heirs continue to marry in accordance to house laws that date back to at best the time that the families were deposed is also, politically speaking, largely unimportant. It is highly unlikely that they or the monarchies to which they are attached will ever be restored, regardless of what the small group of monarchists wish. That doesn't mean that it doesn't continue to be significant who these individuals marry or who the head of the house is, or the heir, or what not. It is important to these individuals and it is important to their supporters.

Maria Vladimirovna is a woman who has spent a good portion of her adult life fighting to be recognized as the head of her house and to have her son recognized as her heir, so clearly to her this all is important. This thread is about potential spouses for Georgiy and takes into consideration equal marriages and the rules of succession to the head of his house because regardless of the chance of his or his descendants ever being the Tsar of Russia, or his marriage being of any political significance, it is something that is important in his house - as stressed by his mother.

We're not here debating the likelihood of a Russian restoration or even Maria Vladimirovna's claim to her position. We're merely discussing potential wives in accordance to the guidelines present to us. If you don't want to discuss that then why come into this thread? If you want to argue against the continuation of dynastic marriages in royal houses (be they reigning or non-reigning), that's another issue altogether. Personally, I'm not a fan, although I do see some of the benefit of it - in my opinion, non-reigning houses have to continue living by the succession rules that were in place prior to deposition if they wish to continue to make a claim to whatever throne they were deposed from. BrazilianEmpire is in support of dynastic marriages and has argued that they're a continuation of tradition and remain important because as the family is deposed the only way children can learn to be royal is from two royal parents.

As to monarchies being anachronistic to modern life, I personally don't agree. While absolute monarchies are anachronistic within western, democratic society (and I hope that one day they will be globally), the majority of monarchies seen today are not absolute. In fact, at the time that most European monarchies were deposed absolute monarchies were anachronistic - even a hundred years ago. A number of these monarchies, including the Russian one, were deposed because while they were making changes they weren't doing so fast enough for the people. The chance of an absolute monarchy being restored in Europe is pretty slim, but that doesn't mean that a constitutional monarchy can't be restored, even in a place where the previous monarchy wasn't constitutional. In fact if you study history you'll see that most restorations tend to have limitations placed on the powers of the monarch, limitations that have only grown with the passage of time.

Oh, I am sorry that I gave you the impression that I opposed todays limited functioning monarchies in Europe. Not at all. I, also, cannot picture Russia with a Constitutional monarchy. But that is my opinion, not necessarily fact. As for Brazil, that I, believe, is anachronistic, as it was out of a colonial grab, like Maximillian in Mexico. In this hemisphere it is very doubtful. I just see a nice young man, that is my impression of him, and she looks likes a nice young woman and they could have a happy life, without this extra interference.

 

[Alexey 1904]

Countess: Maria V. is 59. She will be the big 6-0 Dec.23.

 

[USCtrojan]

Countess: Maria V. is 59. She will be the big 6-0 Dec.23.

How old is George?

 

[Ish]

How old is George?

He turned 32 in March.

 

[Noble Consort Ming]

She would have to end up converting before marriage.

.

Some women who married into the imperial family either didn't convert or converted some time after marriage(Grand Duchess Elizabeth, sister of the last Empress Consort is an example of one who converted several years into her marriage). Would the woman who marries George have to convert before marriage because he is the future head of the family? Or is it because she is catholic rather than protestant like the women I'm thinking of were?

 

[COUNTESS]

Sorry she looks ancient, overweight and poor taste in clothes. By the way that is nothing and unkind on my part. It is her mindset that bothers me most. I am 71, my mother will be 99, The Lord Bless her, and Maria looks like something from another century. I, believe, that life has not been kind to her, because she has been handed this impossible or ridiculous chore. Georgi looks and acts like a kind fellow. He loves his mother. Bless him. But she loves this idea better than she loves him, IMHO. Otherwise, she would say, if you love her and she loves you, how wonderful.

 

[Ish]

Has Maria spoken out against the relationship? I know we on this forum have discussed the consequences regarding the heir to the head of the house, but so far as I know none of us is (or is claiming to be) Maria Vladimirovna.

Personally, while I think good for him regardless of who he ends up with, and I think that if this woman is a decent person them Maria should support her son regardless of what his marital choices do to his succession rights.

At the same time, I believe that she would e a hypocrite if she waved a hand and dismissed the dynastic marriage element of the succession for Georgi. Maria has fought for her recognition as the head of the house saying that everyone who comes before her in the line of succession is removed from it due to their not being a dynast.

If Georgi marries morganatically then he is not a dynast and should be removed from the line of succession.

 

[NGalitzine]

A morganatic marriage does not remove the dynast from the line of succession, it removes any children of the marriage from the succession.