Duke and Duchess of Sussex, Current Events 2: April-September 2020


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Curryong said:
Interesting indeed. I'm so glad that Harry and Meghan are continuing their patronages with this terrific organization and interacting with possible future young leaders in the Commonwealth.
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And here I am starting my timer for when they will be removed from the position - obviously they don't know the purpose of the Commonwealth or the Commonwealth Trust. I do wonders what they felt they were doing for the last two years in the position. I can see the Foreign Secretary, Minister of the Commonwealth, PM, several PM of Several Commonwealth Countries, the Queen's own private secretary asking for removal as soon as possible.

Maybe they should make it compulsory that British royals spend some time in diplomatic training . All so they can seem woke and in touch, really? How old are these again - were they ever royals? Surely the palace needs to still advise them on the CWT?
 
Why would they be removed? No lies were told in that discussion. It was a great conversation and frankly glad it was had.
 
I have to say that I, too, winced when I saw the footage.
Surely we in the Commonwealth have already realised this.

Harry is free to express his views but the media reports as if Harry represents more than himself.
 
Yep - in this role he is still representing the Queen, the Crown and the Monarchy.


But the Commonwealth today is not the Commonwealth of the 1960's - not even the 1990's. And he doesn't seem to know that? I don't know where he is getting his facts from, or rather his assumptions and generalization.
 
There are POC in that Zoom call besides Meghan. Their perspectives are probably being addressed and being respected.
 
He doesn't represent the Queen in this. It was transferred to private representation.

Yes thank you Harry but people having been talking about, and acting on that, for years.

Plus the media kindly reminded me that he him self was sent on diversity training for his use of language.

This is just what they will do now. Speak the obvious.
 
King of the Jungle said:
I have to say that I, too, winced when I saw the footage.
Surely we in the Commonwealth have already realised this.

Harry is free to express his views but the media reports as if Harry represents more than himself.
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Even though the Queen's Commonwealth Trust has nothing to do with the Commonwealth, the line is being blurred. I would not be surprised if they "parted ways" soon.

Here is a article on CNN.com right now:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/06/uk/prince-harry-commonwealth-past-gbr-intl/index.html
 
Eskimo said:
Even though the Queen's Commonwealth Trust has nothing to do with the Commonwealth, the line is being blurred. I would not be surprised if they "parted ways" soon.

Here is a article on CNN.com right now:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/06/uk/prince-harry-commonwealth-past-gbr-intl/index.html
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They may encourage them to stick to the brief and talk about how the Commonwealth trust can help people or they may be ignored. Grey suits in the royals.have always been good at just leaving people to it when they leave.

Harry, and Meghan, are not experts on the Commonwealth or indeed colonisation and I prefer to hear peoples words themselves and not blanket statements from those ill informed
 
Eskimo said:
Even though the Queen's Commonwealth Trust has nothing to do with the Commonwealth, the line is being blurred.
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You've made this comment previously, and just like last time I will comment that of course The Queen's Commonwealth Trust has everything to do with the Commonwealth.

The Queen’s Commonwealth Trust is a growing network of young changemakers across the Commonwealth. A platform where smart ideas and insights are shared, to show that change can be brought about by anyone, anywhere. A place that sparks optimism and inspiration, where more and more people feel motivated and confident to step up and take positive action.
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If it had nothing to do with the Commonwealth;

A, it wouldn't use that word in the name.
B, it wouldn't have The Head of the Commonwealth as its Patron.
C, it wouldn't have The Queen's Trust as it's primary funder & supporter.

poppy7 said:
He doesn't represent the Queen in this. It was transferred to private representation.
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Everything Henry and in extension Meghan say will always be connected to The Queen and the BRF, IMO. They can't help that as there has been no clean break between them and the royal household. The President and Vice President are still the grandson and granddaughter-in-law of the Monarch so I don't view that as private representation. Even if you took that element away they again are still The Duke and Duchess of Sussex, titles they only have due to their closeness to the Crown. There's no escaping the link.

Personally I don't understand why this relationship (as it's not a patronage, HM is patron) wasn't stopped. It only adds to more blurred lines. They no longer undertake duties on behalf of this organisations Patron and the Commonwealth as a whole.

Edit: In my head I could only think of them attending 3 engagements, looking at youtube it's more than that so I've deleted the comment and popped this note on.
 
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Lumutqueen said:
You've made this comment previously, and just like last time I will comment that of course The Queen's Commonwealth Trust has everything to do with the Commonwealth.



If it had nothing to do with the Commonwealth;

A, it wouldn't use that word in the name.
B, it wouldn't have The Head of the Commonwealth as its Patron.
C, it wouldn't have The Queen's Trust as it's primary funder & supporter.



Everything Henry and in extension Meghan say will always be connected to The Queen and the BRF, IMO. They can't help that as there has been no clean break between them and the royal household. The President and Vice President are still the grandson and granddaughter-in-law of the Monarch so I don't view that as private representation. Even if you took that element away they again are still The Duke and Duchess of Sussex, titles they only have due to their closeness to the Crown. There's no escaping the link.

Personally I don't understand why this relationship (as it's not a patronage, HM is patron) wasn't stopped. It only adds to more blurred lines. They no longer undertake duties on behalf of this organisations Patron and the Commonwealth as a whole. They have attended 3? events for the QCT so it's not like a long standing relationship.
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They probably kicked up a fuss to keep it. It was the one they were most engaged in. Which is a shame because they have been able to do good work.

Harry and Meghan oy have being royal to keep them out there. No one is interested in anything else. Even Sarah Ferguson has other things. Her children's books are great. People will bore of the royal angle though as they did with Fergie. Once your out of it, whT can they say eventually, nothing.
 
Eskimo said:
Even though the Queen's Commonwealth Trust has nothing to do with the Commonwealth, the line is being blurred. I would not be surprised if they "parted ways" soon.

Here is a article on CNN.com right now:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/06/uk/prince-harry-commonwealth-past-gbr-intl/index.html
Click to expand...



The Commonwealth originated from the Imperial Conference of 1926 and was first given a legal personality by the Statute of Westminster, 1931. At that time, in addition to the United Kingdom properly, the Commonwealth only included Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, the Irish Free State and Newfoundland, which became sovereign states under the Statute of Westminster (the Irish Free State later became the Republic of Ireland and left the Commonwealth and Newfoundland became a province of Canada). The Empire of India, albeit an administrative unit in itself with its own military and civil service under the Viceroy, was ruled by instructions that came directly from the British government and was not considered part of the Commonwealth. The other African and Asian colonies had even less autonomy than the Indian subcontinent.



As more dependent territories gained independence from the UK in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s, they became sovereign states too (generally republics) and joined the "new" multinational, multirracial Commonwealth. A table with the date in which each current member joined the Commonwealth can be seen here .



The Duke and Duchess of Sussex have said that the Commonwealth must "acknowledge the past". However, it is confusing to me what kind of past they are referring to.


Are they referring to the colonial policies of the British government, most of which predating the creation of the Commonwealth and which have nothing to do with the organization known as the Commonwealth per se? Or are they referring to past policies of individual Commonwealth governments (e.g. Canadian policy towards the First Nations, Australian treatment of the Aborigenes, New Zealand policy with respect to the Maoris, or the policy of the Union of South Africa with respect to Bantu peoples and the Cape Coloured), which in part also predate the Commonwealth and, in any case, again are not related to the Commonwealth per se? I wish they could clarify.
 
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ACO said:
Apparently the palace supports the discussion.

https://www.newsweek.com/palace-support-meghan-markle-prince-harry-talking-about-race-1515724
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Going back to my previous point, what are the Duke and Duchess calling for exactly though?


Are they calling on the Commonwealth as an organization to denounce the past policies of individual Commonwealth countries like the UK, Australia , Canada, New Zealand or South Africa ( e.g. through its Secretary-General, or a joint statement at the CHoGM, or a statement by the Queen) ? Or are they calling on the governments of individual countries, especially the UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand (since South Africa has already gone through "regime change") , to apologize for their past policies ? Or are they targeting the UK specifically and its imperial past?


I don't think they really understand what their message is other than "let's talk about race or equality".
 
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The Duke and Duchess of Sussex have said that the Commonwealth must "acknowledge the past". However, it is confusing to me what kind of past they are referring to.

.[/QUOTE]

I dont think they know or care to know. They enjoy playing in a political minefield. It was just done for a good sound clip and the headlines.
 
ACO said:
Apparently the palace supports the discussion.

https://www.newsweek.com/palace-support-meghan-markle-prince-harry-talking-about-race-1515724
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Hmm not really. The article makes the claim at the start that the Palace were forewarned but then goes on to state,

“However, a well placed royal source has told Newsweek the couple have license to speak their minds on behalf of the Queen's Commonwealth Trust because it is a separate entity.”

The two statements don’t match, however I don’t disagree with the overall sentiment.
 
All this does show how *anything* Harry and Meghan do going forward just might be seen to reflect on the Queen and Buckingham Palace. I'm pretty sure that BP will be inundated with requests for comments and validation that things are OK with the Queen.
 
Claire said:
The Duke and Duchess of Sussex have said that the Commonwealth must "acknowledge the past". However, it is confusing to me what kind of past they are referring to.
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Just to make it clear, I agree with them that some countries which are members of the present Commonwealth have pursued policies in the past with respect to certain population groups that should be examined critically, especially the UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and South Africa. And so have also Portugal, Spain, the Netherlands, Belgium, France, the United States, Russia, Argentina, Brazil, and the list goes on.



I just don't see the demand for an institutional apology or acknowledgment of past wrongdoing from/by the Commonwealth as the most appropriate suggestion in this case as the present Commonwealth in itself had nothing to do with those past actions.


Having said that, I don't think H&M were asking for that kind of institutional apology or acknowledgment. Their message on the video is a much more generic "let's have a conversation across the Commonwealth about race/equality" kind of message.


BTW, the Daily Mail has a surprisingly good take on the story (by DM standards).


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...-video-call-discuss-justice-equal-rights.html
 
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Lumutqueen said:
You've made this comment previously, and just like last time I will comment that of course The Queen's Commonwealth Trust has everything to do with the Commonwealth.



If it had nothing to do with the Commonwealth;

A, it wouldn't use that word in the name.
B, it wouldn't have The Head of the Commonwealth as its Patron.
C, it wouldn't have The Queen's Trust as it's primary funder & supporter.



Edit: In my head I could only think of them attending 3 engagements, looking at youtube it's more than that so I've deleted the comment and popped this note on.
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The Queen's Commonwealth Trust has nothing to do with the political entity that is the commonwealth. The Queen was very clear in the separation announcement that H&M would no longer represent her officially. This is a private organization, registered as a charity. AFAIK, it is not even sanctioned by the Commonwealth.
 
ACO said:
Apparently the palace supports the discussion.

https://www.newsweek.com/palace-support-meghan-markle-prince-harry-talking-about-race-1515724
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I sincerely doubt this to be true.

Claire said:
The Duke and Duchess of Sussex have said that the Commonwealth must "acknowledge the past". However, it is confusing to me what kind of past they are referring to.

.
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I dont think they know or care to know. They enjoy playing in a political minefield. It was just done for a good sound clip and the headlines.[/QUOTE]

She doesn't and her [...] does not know any better. :flowers:

At this point they are just grasping at straws trying to stay relevant
 
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Eskimo said:
She doesn't and her [...] does not know any better. :flowers:

At this point they are just grasping at straws trying to stay relevant
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You don’t think things like racism and certain events in the past need to be discussed? Because I do. I don’t expect governments to give formal apologies for things like slavery and atrocities done in overseas territories, but at least acknowledge it happened. Discuss it, make it real, teach about it. Where I live it doesn’t happen nearly enough. I think people still underestimate the effect it has.
 
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Mbruno said:
Just to make it clear, I agree with them that some countries which are members of the present Commonwealth have pursued policies in the past with respect to certain population groups that should be examined critically, especially the UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and South Africa. And so have also Portugal, Spain, the Netherlands, Belgium, France, the United States, Russia, Argentina, Brazil, and the list goes on.



I just don't see the demand for an institutional apology or acknowledgment of past wrongdoing from/by the Commonwealth as the most appropriate suggestion in this case as the present Commonwealth in itself had nothing to do with those past actions.


Having said that, I don't think H&M were asking for that kind of institutional apology or acknowledgment. Their message on the video is a much more generic "let's have a conversation across the Commonwealth about race/equality" kind of message.


BTW, the Daily Mail has a surprisingly good take on the story (by DM standards).


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...-video-call-discuss-justice-equal-rights.html
Click to expand...

We can add Japan & the Ottoman Empire to the list & present day China.

I too am perplexed as to what it is the duke means or wants. Maybe he should consent to an interview so someone can challenge him on these vague assertions.

The Queen as Head of the Commonwealth is nothing to do with the British Government. I'm sure the last thing the government/FCO want is the duke rummaging around in British colonial history.
 
Elenath said:
You don’t think things like racism and certain events in the past need to be discussed? Because I do. I don’t expect governments to give formal apologies for things like slavery and atrocities done in overseas territories, but at least acknowledge it happened. Discuss it, make it real, teach about it. Where I live it doesn’t happen nearly enough. I think people still underestimate the effect it has.
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Like this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22790037

None of this is new. British colonialism is well known history.

Again - what does the duke actually mean or want? His scatter gun approach to issues is unhelpful.
 
Durham said:
Like this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22790037

None of this is new. British colonialism is well known history. His scatter gun approach to issues is unhelpful.

Again - what does the duke actually mean or want?
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As if he knows about colonism anyway and certainly nothing more than: British walked in, broke everyone and controlled everyone. It is a disgusting global legacy history to be far but he hardly knows more than that. And the Commenwealth is about the exact opposite of that. I would suggest start his education somewhere other than talking to his wife. Whose own knowledge, if on her own country, is probably not amazing. Try watching Black and British by David Olusoga Harry. It's a place to start.

Shouting about unconscious bias is useless. What do you actually understand about the lived experience of so many? And it is only from that thay you gain a real understanding of both sides. Which you need. Unconscious bias is a real thing but also complex. How do we cope with that? How homogenous is your group Harry? How do you diversify experiences and opportunities.
 
Eskimo said:
The Queen's Commonwealth Trust has nothing to do with the political entity that is the commonwealth. The Queen was very clear in the separation announcement that H&M would no longer represent her officially. This is a private organization, registered as a charity. AFAIK, it is not even sanctioned by the Commonwealth.
Click to expand...


Where are on earth are you getting any of this nonsense from?

Sanctioned by the commonwealth?! Their patron is The Head of The Commonwealth, who else would sanction the use of her moniker (The Queen) and the use of the word Commonwealth other than The Queen?

H&M aren’t representing Her Majesty, they’re representing themselves as President and Vice President. If The Queen didn’t want them connected to the charity anymore, which by the way was a gift from The Duke of Sussex to Her Majesty, she would have taken it away back in January.

The fact that the young leaders involved in QCT all come from the 53 Commonwealth countries, clearly means there’s no link between the two.
 
Elenath said:
You don’t think things like racism and certain events in the past need to be discussed? Because I do. I don’t expect governments to give formal apologies for things like slavery and atrocities done in overseas territories, but at least acknowledge it happened. Discuss it, make it real, teach about it. Where I live it doesn’t happen nearly enough. I think people still underestimate the effect it has.
Click to expand...



Anyone who was born, grown up in or is currently living in a former colony is more than aware of the effect historical colonialism has had on our people and our countries. We are all still today so what impacted by that British colonialism. Furthermore, I can assure you that, in my own country at least, there is very much an expectation that formal apologies be given for the atrocities carried out by the British here - indeed in former PM David Cameron’s opinion he personally has issued one in Westminster. However, we also recognise that in the interest of moving forward as nations in this globalised economy that its best to not allow the past to prevent future alliances.

What is not helpful, to anyone, is an over privileged benefactor of the systematic privilege for a small few that arose out of that colonialism playing at being ‘woke’ in an attempt to appear relevant to the Americans fighting to finally end, at the least, the systemic racism in their country. A couple who go around calling themselves Duke and Duchess, highlighting in their press release that they are still members of the royal family, that Harry is still 6th in line to the throne and have kept their place in order of precedence joining in any discussion on the removal of systemic privilege and racism is a joke.
 
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