Romanov Rescue 1917-1919: Action and Inaction

[AristoCat]

I'm testy about it because surely, surely there might have been some sort of discreet assistance from Denmark? All those family members and not of them lifted a finger.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Ever thought it was because they were such appalling rulers no one wanted to be associated with them - after all the family members were trying to win a war, remain on their own thrones and preside over democracies.

Wilhelm II actually allowed Lenin passage through Germany to reach Russia to stir up the Bolsheviks to overthrow the Tsar - knowing what had happened to earlier kings who had been overthrown why would he do that if he really cared for his 1st cousin, Alexandra and her family - simple answer - he didn't - he cared about his own family and position not a cousin and her family.

The Danes wouldn't act without the British and as there was a war going on they didn't have the means to get any sort of force there - the Germans wouldn't have let them get a naval ship through and they couldn't send soldiers.

It has to be remembered that this did all happen with the backdrop of WWI which was way more important that what happened to a few distant relatives.

 

[AristoCat]

Which is kind of silly; after all, the BRF sent a ship in to rescue Greece and Constantine messed up very much the same way Nicholas II did, if not much worse. Constantine interfered with an appointment, assigned a right wing commander to the military, which triggered the junta takeover and the establishment of the dictatorship.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The Greek King wasn't an autocrat who ordered millions to their deaths. He was a constitutional monarchy. Time had also moved on - no one would care about the Greeks and they didn't go to live in Britain anyway.

 

[AristoCat]

He was a constitutional monarch, but he overstepped the boundaries and ended up setting his country up to be killed by the millions. So really, why couldn't the children at least be ransomed or gotten out? NO one would have begrudged getting the kids out.

 

[Iluvbertie]

A lot of people would have objected to the children leaving - not least their parents but mostly the government as that would mean there would be a focus for the opposition.

If the Russian royals really wanted them out then Nicholas and Alexandra and the girls had more than enough jewels on them to pay for any ransom themselves but they didn't want to be separated, and the parents weren't prepared to pay for their own safety, if they could have found anyone who would have taken the money.

At that time in Russia, the people were out for blood - given the appalling conditions in which the Russian people lived and the opulence of the wealthy those who could have helped were long gone, or dead, and no one left cared for them.

It is easy in hindsight to say 'why' or 'what if' but in fact there was no country who would want them, given their history, no way the Bolsheviks were going to let them go - particularly the Ural Soviet (the central government didn't have control of the entire country at that time so even if Lenin had been prepared to deal the local Soviet wasn't).

Don't forget that these 'children' included girls of marriagable age and so not all that much children as young women - Alexei was already 13, only 3 years from being able to be Tsar in his own right under the 1906 constitution, and the others were all older and easily able to be the centre of continual attacks on the new regime. They had no choice but to eliminate them so avoid the sort of situation that happened in France with restoration after restoration because there were legitimate claimants clearly identifiable still alive.

Alexei and the girls had been raised to believe that autocracy and ruthless leadeship was the way to go and many countries would have totally objected to having those sort of beliefs in prominent refugees.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

I think Alexandra never believed, until it was too late, that the Russian people would rise up against her husband. There was no plan to send the children out of the country and once they were trapped, it was not going to happen. No country would take the family and the government was not going to provide safe passage for the children alone.

 

[Artemisia]

To an extent, she wasn't mistaken. Most Russians did not, in fact, join the revolution. Quite a few (in more remote areas of the country) weren't even aware of it until months, years later. What's more, how many Russian leaders of the revolution can you actually name?

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

I disagree. While many Russians may not have actively joined the revolution, they detested Alexandra and Nicholas, especially her. The people were starving, poor, and tired of the losses from the war. They may not have wanted the whole family massacred, but they certainly wanted the Tsar off the throne.

 

[Artemisia]

That may be true for интеллигенция (not sure how to translated it; probably, the educated masses mostly consisting of nobility, artists and scientists), but the vast majority of Russians at the time were uneducated peasants for whom the Tsar was the Father of the Nation, a figure of worship. They would never even dream about going against him in any way.

 

[mlwurtzinger]

romanov rescue

I been reading every books on the family, for over 20 years, being Russian blood, I never felt they were excuted , and I have this book , bought 11 years ago , read some , but never really read it, so I took it from my shelf, called ". The lost fortune of the tzars.

What I read , page 62 - 64, which stuck out to me , that the last weeks. People who were around the family removed , and the one thing odd, the priest mass, they didn't seem to find the family different, that the mass was not how the family did in a mass, and that last mass, that was not the royal family, and this is a new piece , that I feel they lived , like to know what others out there think

 

[COUNTESS]

I think not. They have their skeletal remains. Alexandra, especially, would never have disappeared out of sight. She was too dramatic. Do you think they moved to where and opened a business?

 

[Pranter]

I don't think there is any doubt they were executed, there's too much evidence of it.


LaRae

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Princess Victoria, Princess Louis of Battenberg and later The Marchioness of Milford Haven, was the eldest sister of Empress Alexandra. Did Victoria persuade King George V to rescue her sister and Nicholas II?

 

[Curryong]

All the members of the family were absolutely frantic when it became apparent that the Tsar and his family were prisoners. Also Ella, the Tsarina's sister, was a prisoner for a time. Relatives including Ernest the Grand Duke of Hesse, Alexandra and Ella's brother, plus royal families all over Europe, including the Danes, were all dreadfully worried.

However, it was a bit more complicated than 'You (We) must rescue them all immediately! '. For a start, people outside Russia didn't know exactly where some of the Romanovs were being held. It wasn't as if the Bolsheviks were going to advertise it all and invite White Russian attacks. And when it became known that the Tsar and his family had been transported to Siberia then any rescue attempt by foreign powers became very very difficult.

Some, including the Danish RF, paid ransoms for the lives of some of the Grand Dukes. The money just disappeared and the prisoners died anyway. It's extremely doubtful that if any such arrangement had been made for Nicholas, Alexandra and their children that outcomes would have been any different.

However there is some evidence that after the war Victoria was bitter that more had not been done. She thanked King Alfonzo of Spain for his efforts to free the Tsar and his family and in the letter seemed to contrast that with George V dragging his heels in her opinion.

 

[victor1319]

Helen Rappaport talks about her new Book

The Race to Save the Romanovs... She, Helen Rappaport, does not give that much away - of course she wants to sell her book...​

"On the 100-year-anniversary of these brutal murders, historian Helen Rappaport set out to uncover why the Romanovs’ European royal relatives and the Allied governments failed to save them. It was not, ever, a simple case of one British King’s loss of nerve. In this race against time, many other nations and individuals were facing political and personal challenges of the highest order." (Penguin Books)



"In this incredible detective story, Rappaport draws on an unprecedented range of unseen sources, tracking down missing documents, destroyed papers and covert plots to liberate the family by land, sea and even sky. Through countless twists and turns, this revelatory work unpicks many false claims and conspiracies, revealing the fiercest loyalty, bitter rivalries and devastating betrayals as the Romanovs, imprisoned, awaited their fate." (ibid)
​

 

[Tarlita]

100 years this july. I can't get to an Orthodox church on the 16th. I spoke to my local Priest yesterday and he said I should light a candle at home. I have two russian religious icons at home and that is what I will do. Say a private prayer for the family and to all the extended family of the Romanov's who must have gone through a lot of worry at that time.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Did Emperor Wilhelm II of Germany have any plans to rescue his cousin Alexandra and Nicholas II?

 

[lula]

This article is by Marie Stravlo, although it seems that the author likes the theory / legends about the Romanovs, she writes some interesting facts and collects documents from the royal archives of Madrid.

https://www.elespanol.com/reportaje...o-alfonso-xiii-zarina-espana/289221300_0.html

https://translate.google.es/transla...na-espana/289221300_0.html&edit-text=&act=url

During the First World War, Alfonso XIII, being Spain a neutral country, created an office in the Royal Palace of Madrid to help all those affected by the war. In the palace there is a collection of letters and telegrams between the king and other monarchies and embassies. In November, coinciding with the centenary of the end of the war, there will be an exhibition and lectures on the pro-captive office in the Royal Palace. Maybe then some new data will emerge about the Romanovs and the role of the European Royal families.

 

[Mbruno]

Assuming the British government wouldn’t agree to let the Tsar’s family stay in the UK ( which I doubt BTW), could Denmark have been an option for the imperial family's exile ? After all, the Tsar was also Christian IX’s grandson, wasn’t he ?

 

[victor1319]

Denmark




In the video I linked at above (#256), Helen Rappaport explains, the Danes even paid ransom for some Romanov Grand Dukes, which the Bolsheviks took... - just to murder the Grand Dukes afterward. Same would have happened with the Romanov nuclear family...


Edit: That is wrong! I did read it here in the royal forums yesterday...

 

[Mbruno]

In the video I linked at above (#256), Helen Rappaport explains, the Danes even paid ransom for some Romanov Grand Dukes, which the Bolsheviks took... - just to murder the Grand Dukes afterward. Same would have happened with the Romanov nuclear family...


Edit: That is wrong! I did read it here in the royal forums yesterday...

I was not talking about a ransom, but rather the imperial family being rescued/ extracted by the British and taken to a third country such as Denmark. Would that have been possible ?

 

[JR76]

I was not talking about a ransom, but rather the imperial family being rescued/ extracted by the British and taken to a third country such as Denmark. Would that have been possible ?

The risk of the Imperial family being rescued/extracted was exactly why they were executed when and where they were.

Sent from my BLA-L29 using The Royals Community mobile app

 

[victor1319]

Rescue Mission

I was not talking about a ransom, but rather the imperial family being rescued/ extracted by the British and taken to a third country such as Denmark. Would that have been possible ?

Well, they (the Romanov nuclear family) were really far away from all borders - in Jekaterinburg, behind the Ural, on the border between Europe and Asia...

Plus: The british SAS, which would be certainly able to do such stuff, was founded in the Second World War, so much later...

I think, such an operation would have been too difficult back then.

 

[lucien]

In the video I linked at above (#256), Helen Rappaport explains, the Danes even paid ransom for some Romanov Grand Dukes, which the Bolsheviks took... - just to murder the Grand Dukes afterward.

The Bolsjeviks demanded the money,but at that time the Grand Dukes were already killed,misleading is an art,and the darn bolsjeviks knew how to play that card.

And as far as saving the Family,any of the Family.If it wasn't for the consistent pleading by Queen Alexandra,George V would not have moved his butt,at all,to save at least the Dowager Empress and her retinue and a handfull of family members.Nobody did anything worthwhile to rescue them...Except maybe Alfonso of Spain,he did a lot but to no avail which frustrated and saddened him immensly.

Any attempt to debunk the blame put on George V failed so far,contrary,it only just convinced me more of the exact opposite!One can blame Stanfordham for being such an Machiavelli playing Georgy's mind by showing him the worse snippits of daily "press",but he could have looked further then his Royal behind himself yet lacked the grey cells to even come up with that very idea.No,G V..nothing was debunked...Oh yes,lots of name-dropping,yes,well ...sorry,but that doesn't work for me.

Oh was he sorry later???Oh yes,very,until his dying day he was.His dying day,poor George,he was "assisted"to "go over" so the news would reach the Times in time....Poor man was a victim of his time and age,and wife.And Karma.

 

[wyevale]

For ANY Rescue attempt to have even a chance of success it would -

a] have needed to be launched within [at latest] a Month of the abdication.
b] have needed the Family to split up into smaller [less recognisable] units of 1/2 or 3.
c] Have involved numbers of highly trained, fluent Russian speakers, completely familiar with the layout of Tsarskoye Selo/Alexander Palace/Petrograd [its Railway systems and Port facilities].
d] have needed contacts within the Provisional Government, the Petrograd Soviet and Imperial Household structures.
e] have needed co-operation by the [ex] Tsar and Tsarina and willingness to appreciate the gravity of their situation, and accept ORDERS from others [likely] unknown to them personally.

Quite how ANY foreign power could have satisfied ALL these crucial conditions at the time of the most critical juncture of the worst War the World had ever seen I don't know.

In short, the entire idea was/is a hopelessly romantic and UTTERLY unrealistic 'pipe-dream'.
Casting blame on ANY foreign person or persons unable to prevent the murders is simply wrong.
The ONLY people responsible are the Russians themselves..

 

[lucien]

For ANY Rescue attempt to have even a chance of success it would -

a] have needed to be launched within [at latest] a Month of the abdication.
b] have needed the Family to split up into smaller [less recognisable] units of 1/2 or 3.
c] Have involved numbers of highly trained, fluent Russian speakers, completely familiar with the layout of Tsarskoye Selo/Alexander Palace/Petrograd [its Railway systems and Port facilities].
d] have needed contacts within the Provisional Government, the Petrograd Soviet and Imperial Household structures.
e] have needed co-operation by the [ex] Tsar and Tsarina and willingness to appreciate the gravity of their situation, and accept ORDERS from others [likely] unknown to them personally.

Quite how ANY foreign power could have satisfied ALL these crucial conditions at the time of the most critical juncture of the worst War the World had ever seen I don't know.

In short, the entire idea was/is a hopelessly romantic and UTTERLY unrealistic 'pipe-dream'.
Casting blame on ANY foreign person or persons unable to prevent the murders is simply wrong.
The ONLY people responsible are the Russians themselves..

No no no no,it is not as easy as just that.Not at all.There was something else as well.It was incompetence and a strong naivity that ruled in all camps involved.No-one had any idea as to what sort of people they were dealing with,the bolsjeviks were far more horrific in wheeling and dealing then anyone could have held possible at the time.

Let down when still in a possibility to make the escape to Sweden via Finland while still in the AP,there have been possibilities by many parties involved but when it came to the point..they all failed to help.

 

[COUNTESS]

They rescued many, including the Dowager Empress and both of her daughters and their children. In the beginning it would have been possible, but George V did not want to make his throne vulnerable and so, his assistance was retracted. Even the Kaiser offered to take them, but Alexandra hated him so much she wouldn't hear of it. That no one saw the horrific outcome is possible, not probable. Lucien is correct.

 

[M. Payton]

Does anyone have info on a good book about this for I would like to learn more. I have a book called *King, Kaiser and Tsar* by a woman named Clay I believe which is very good in the details that lead up to WW1 and how the relationship with the 3 cousins was at the time.....this is very horrific time in Europe, one of the worst I think.........the attempted rescue I know almost nothing about so am interested in learning, Thank you

 

[JR76]

Does anyone have info on a good book about this for I would like to learn more. I have a book called *King, Kaiser and Tsar* by a woman named Clay I believe which is very good in the details that lead up to WW1 and how the relationship with the 3 cousins was at the time.....this is very horrific time in Europe, one of the worst I think.........the attempted rescue I know almost nothing about so am interested in learning, Thank you

Helen Rappaport have written "The race to save the Romanovs" and Corryne Hall have written "To free the Romanovs" both published this year.