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hsieh 03-21-2006 02:10 PM

Princess Diana's Relationship with her Stepmother, Raine Spencer
 
princess diana admitted on video tape that she once pushed her stepmom down the stairs because she was angry that her stepmom didn't say hi to her real mom during some event. if you or me pushed an old lady down the stairs we would be kissing the pavement with a german shepard attached to our leg and handcuffed. so my question is why does princess diana have so many fans when she admitted on tape she pushed her stepmom (an old lady at that) down the stairs because she didn't say hi to her mom? :confused:

Paula** 03-21-2006 08:16 PM

Oh my god I didn't know about that
Diana was a really good woman, but doing that was really cruel and almost a crime ;]
she was very wrong doing it oO

Jackswife 03-21-2006 08:23 PM

I think it's possible to be a fan of Diana's while at the same time realizing that she had her faults and flaws like anyone else. Not excusing her bratty behavior to Raine by any means-and there were other instances throughout her life when Diana could be very petty and cruel-but she had good qualities as well.

Vanesa 03-21-2006 11:55 PM

Well...I suppose that all of us have a "dark side"...I wouldn't push anyone down the stairs and much, much less and elderly lady. I think that Diana never accepted her parents divorce, but doing that is awful...:(

Vanesa.

Chu-Chi 03-22-2006 07:29 PM

That was mean but at the same time I can understand Diana's loyalty to her mother and wanting to "stand up" for her. And at the same time Raine could have said hello or at least be cordial...

altagrace 03-22-2006 08:27 PM

One aspect of popular culture -regardless of ethnic or cultural background- by that I mean popular nursery rhymes, legend, films, stories like Cinderella etc- is that the step-mother is almost always portrayed as "wicked" or "bad". And these images persist over the centuries. As a result of this somehow many people begin to assume a step mother is by definition bad for you and people accept that it is "OK" or fair game to hate a stepmother. Unfortunately when stories of step-mother "hate" are told 90% of the time people find good excuses for the vilain (oh well poor thing he/she misses her mom) And hardly anyone ever sticks up for the poor stepmother, do they....

Vanesa 03-22-2006 08:48 PM

Altagrace is right. You can't excuse Diana in this one. Her behavior toward Raine was awfully wicked. You can't said that she was a bad person for that, but when she pushed her stepmother downstairs, she did a very bad thing.

Just my opinion.

Vanesa

sirmax 03-22-2006 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hsieh
princess diana admitted on video tape that she once pushed her stepmom down the stairs because she was angry that her stepmom didn't say hi to her real mom during some event. if you or me pushed an old lady down the stairs we would be kissing the pavement with a german shepard attached to our leg and handcuffed. so my question is why does princess diana have so many fans when she admitted on tape she pushed her stepmom (an old lady at that) down the stairs because she didn't say hi to her mom? :confused:

Seriously, I dont think that this is true. Many things were said after the Princess of Wales divorce and death. I admire HRH late Princess of Wales but there is things which is not to take for granted.

michelleq 03-22-2006 09:02 PM

Diana definitely had a dark side and it came out when she started believing her press. I was/am a big Diana fan, more so in the beginning. But towards the late 80's my admiration dwindled basically to her sense of style and the manner in which she raised her sons. I did not like what I perceived to be done against her, but again, she felt that she was the Heir to the Throne, not the spouse. We all have faults, but I had never read that she pushed her stepmom down the stairs. How horrible and vindictive. She projected a wonderful facade, but even in the end, it started to crack considerably. But I am still a big admirer of Diana, but she was not the great victim that she displayed to the world. She could sling it with the best. But again, she also had wonderful attributes.

sirmax 03-22-2006 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanesa
...I wouldn't push anyone down the stairs and much, much less and elderly lady....

Vanesa.

Just imagine pushing The Queen!!!!!!:eek:

michelleq 03-22-2006 09:05 PM

"Off with your head!!!"

Or the Corgis would attack.

naida 03-23-2006 12:33 AM

Diana was just a child when her mother left her and she didn't accepted other woman in her father's life. The step-mother was not ''elderly lady'' at that time. Later, Diana was very clause to her step mom, even more then with her mother.

Diana didn't have a dark side more then any one of us. She was very sensible and caring person.

trippc 03-23-2006 01:30 AM

I'm not excusing Diana's behaviour at all, but I think her stepmother was rather mean to her. I obviously don't know the full story, but I think its more than she just didn't say hello to her birth-mother.

Charlotte1 03-23-2006 05:44 AM

All the Spencer children disliked Raine, she married into the family when Diana was in her teens, so quite a long time after her parents divorced. Diana probably resented having to share her father with another woman. The children were somewhat nasty to Raine but saw her in a different light after Earl Spencer had a major stroke and Raine helped to nurse him back to being able to live a relatively normal life. The children then were fairly civilised to Raine, but after the Earl died she moved out of Althrop. Diana's brother had many of Raine's things packed into green bin liners and removed. After Diana was divorced she did become friendlier with Raine, much more than they had ever been when her father was alive.
Raine remarried a few years after Earl Spencer died, and she lost the Raine, Countess Spencer title as she took her new husband's name. But that marriage was short lived and she decided to go back to being 'Raine, Countess Spencer' obviously more social clout.

assia 03-23-2006 05:50 AM

I think that eventually they were quite friendly to each other. Didn't Diana help Raine to get a managing job at Harrods through Mohamed Al-Fayed ? I know that after her divorce Diana often went for lunch with Raine.So they did work out their differences.

sirmax 03-23-2006 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlotte1
All the Spencer children disliked Raine....

She excused herself later on and Raine became one of her closest Spencer Family member.

hsieh 03-23-2006 10:18 AM

nobody has to say hi to you if they don't want to
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chu-Chi
That was mean but at the same time I can understand Diana's loyalty to her mother and wanting to "stand up" for her. And at the same time Raine could have said hello or at least be cordial...

you don't push a person (especially an old lady) down the stairs because they don't say hi to your mom. she could have died or broken a bone. not to mention the emotional cruelty of being pushed down the stairs. if diana was truley a good person she would not have done that. therefore i think diana was a person who put on a front. she married prince charles for the attention. nobody has to say hi to you if they don't want to. diana's action proved her mindset was "if you refuse to say hi to my mom i will punish you". that's a bad person.

Squidgy 03-23-2006 01:29 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Diana was a complex person and had very complex relationships, especially with her family. I admired her very much as a person, but was certainly not blind to the fact that she, like all of us, had her share of faults. One of them, I think, was her need to exaggerate the truth. I believe her brother even commented on this to the press at one point. When she says on that Settelen tape that she pushed her step-mother down the stairs, I really believe she is being very liberal with the truth. She also says on that tape that she slapped her father in the face because he didn't tell any of his children that he was marrying Raine - they found out by reading about it in the newspapers. Who knows what really happened? Personally, I think that Diana felt like a victim for most of her life, and that when talking to Settelen, she tried to make herself come across as someone who was fighting back. Hence perhaps the need to exaggerate ... And we need to remember that this tape was made just 3 months before her separation from Charles - in Sept 1992, when Diana was under so much stress. I think at that point in her life, she was a vulnerable person, trying to give the impression of being strong!

I think she had a lot of anger not just towards Raine, but also to her parents. Her mother, for not being around for much of her childhood, her father for seemingly abandoning the kids by marrying Raine. Perhaps Raine was the safest person to take this anger out on. Since they had never been extremely close, Diana by expressing her anger, would really have nothing to lose.

It is worth remembering that they did seem to patch things up. Within a year of her father dying, Diana extended an olive branch to Raine by inviting her to lunch at KP and thanking her step mom for taking care of her father. From then onwards the two would often lunch together & attend other social events.

They seemed to be on good terms when Diana died. Just two months before her death, the two ladies were seen sharing a laugh at a preview for Diana's auction dresses.


Photos: Corbis & Getty



Warren 03-24-2006 05:45 AM

Thank you Squidgy for your considered take on events.

Since we don't know the facts of the "pushing Raine down the stairs" story it may be better to follow Squidy's lead and concentrate on the changing nature of the relationship between Diana and her stepmother.

I would also ask members to consider the use of language in their posts and to avoid inflammatory and sweeping statements.
We have no intention of returning to the era of helmets and flak jackets.

thanks,
Warren
British Forums moderator

msleiman 03-24-2006 11:52 AM

Where did she say that she pushed Raine down the stairs? I remember something about this, but I was thinking that it was her sister Sara that did it not Diana.

ysbel 03-24-2006 01:32 PM

Diana made the statement on a tape she was making for the Andrew Morton book. The transcripts are on this site from NBC. Like Warren and Squidgy I take with a grain of salt a lot of what Diana said during these interviews.

But I agree its disturbing whether Diana really pushed Raine down or or just said that she did. I wouldn't like it if one of my friends did that or even exaggerated when said that she did.

msleiman 03-24-2006 02:35 PM

Even if she is making it up, that is bad enough. I really can not understand why any one would do that, must less tell anyone about it. If she had really pushed Raine down the stairs , I can not see why Raine or her father would talking to her again. I would not care if she was my daughter or the princess of wales. I would never speak to her again. That is just wrong.:eek:

maryshawn 03-24-2006 09:51 PM

Diana and her stepmother became quite close in the last years of Diana's life. They lunched together often and Raine became a close confidante. I think earlier in their relationship, all of the Spencer children were very unaccepting of Raine and treated her poorly. By the time Earl Spencer married Raine, they'd become used to him focusing strictly on them. When Raine came on the scene, the amount of time he spent with them changed. When he had his stroke, Raine, according to some of the children, kept them away from his bedside, supposedly to help him rest and heal. That irritated them. Then, as it became more expensive to keep up the family home, Earl Spencer sold off some valuable portraits and paintings. The kids blamed that on Raine, saying it was being done in order to keep up her grand style of living. They tried to intervene but Earl Spencer told the media his children, including Diana, had no idea how much it cost to keep Althrop running and chided them for their "juvenile" behavior.

The interesting thing is that while the children bucked Raine and were quite harsh with her, they accepted their mother's new husband readily and liked him very much. I'm not sure why that is but perhaps it's because of their concern that their father was going to sell off most of Althrop's valuables--and blamed Raine for it.

rhenae 03-26-2006 05:47 AM

I don't really know what to believe about Diana pushing Raine down the stairs, but thankfully in later life they became good friends. I even think that I read somewhere that Diana said she was closer to Raine than her own mother. If it were true I can kinda sympathize with Diana by taking up for her mother. I am glad that they were able to become friends.

TheTruth 07-29-2007 11:19 AM

I think the good relationship between Diana and Raine began when Johnnie died. At the funeral, Raine was devastated and I think Diana took her hand and help her to walk behind the coffin. Since then, we could see that Diana and Raine were in good terms.

Brooklyn 07-31-2007 11:11 AM

Thanks for posting those photos of Diana and Raine. It is good to see that they were able to put aside their differences and enjoyed some happy times.

TheTruth 07-31-2007 12:29 PM

Yes, although it's sad that didn't happen with Diana and her Mother Frances ...

TheTruth 08-11-2007 02:37 PM

Another picture of Raine and Diana taken in 1996. It shows again that she was very close to her stepmother in the end of her life.
ImageShack - Hosting :: 2466795300101609354hogdhz9.jpg

BeatrixFan 08-11-2007 04:38 PM

When I met Raine Spencer, she was walking extremely badly and she asked if she could hold onto my arm which I of course allowed her to. She was a gorgeous character and I really didn't know much about her then but when I ask the person hosting the event about her walking, she said that she'd walked badly since "the stairs incident".

TheTruth 08-11-2007 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 652343)
When I met Raine Spencer, she was walking extremely badly and she asked if she could hold onto my arm which I of course allowed her to. She was a gorgeous character and I really didn't know much about her then but when I ask the person hosting the event about her walking, she said that she'd walked badly since "the stairs incident".

I believe that if Diana actually did it and injured Raine to this point, I don't think the 2 women would have been in good terms after.

BeatrixFan 08-11-2007 04:53 PM

Oh I don't know, people aren't always bitter. There is such a thing as forgiveness and Raine struck me as the sort who wouldn't bear a grudge, especially against someone with obvious mental health issues. And living with Barbara Cartland must have prepared her for odd moments. Diana did meet with Raine weekly for lunch so I was told but since her death, Raine hasn't been forthcoming in speaking about her in public or private. Quite sad really. But you have to remember that Diana did admit to pushing Raine and at the age Raine was, it's extremely easy for injuries to last for a very long time. Raine was post-menopause which naturally means that injuries can have a bigger impact and a long-lasting effect.

sirhon11234 08-11-2007 04:58 PM

I can never understand or even try to make up an excuse for why Diana pushed Raine down those stairs but looking from photos of those two in the last years of Diana's life it looks like they got past all their bad issues and became good friends. What really pissed me off was when after Diana's father died Charles Spencer threw Raine out of the mansion and had her clothes put in garbage bags and threw them down the stairs. Had I been Raine I would've slapped the tar out Charles' head but she left like a lady.

And I thought Raine was walking fine when she walked into westminster abbey for the Princess of Wales' funeral.

BeatrixFan 08-11-2007 05:01 PM

Maybe it was age. But there's no excuse being made up, Diana said herself that she threw her down the stairs and laughed.

TheTruth 08-11-2007 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 652360)
Maybe it was age. But there's no excuse being made up, Diana said herself that she threw her down the stairs and laughed.

Yes I agree. But Raine is much more 'heavier' than Diana so 'threw her down' sounds not like the right term. I'd say 'push' and if it's like the 'Diana-suicide-stairs' problem, Raine might also have fallen from only 3 steps.

BeatrixFan 08-11-2007 05:13 PM

You are joking right? Raine is like a little bird. She does wear a bustle which makes her look big and her hair perhaps makes her look rather larger than she is but in the flesh, she's extremely delicate. Falling 3 steps or not, it's still a push. Makes me laugh that people are prepared to excuse an admitted assault.

TheTruth 08-11-2007 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 652371)
You are joking right? Raine is like a little bird. She does wear a bustle which makes her look big and her hair perhaps makes her look rather larger than she is but in the flesh, she's extremely delicate. Falling 3 steps or not, it's still a push. Makes me laugh that people are prepared to excuse an admitted assault.

Like she admitted suicide attempt in the stairs, which was not true, like she admitted that she didn't collaborate with Morton's book, etc.

BeatrixFan 08-11-2007 05:24 PM

And I quote (listen to the tapes to hear it from the horses);

"My stepmother and I ended up having this row. And I pushed her down the stairs. Which gave me enormous satisfaction. My father didn't speak to me for six months"

She pushed a 60 year old woman down the stairs and then bragged about it. She admitted assault, from her own mouth, she pushed Raine down a flight of stairs. Stop defending her and making out it didn't happen when it very obviously and undeniably did happen.

TheTruth 08-11-2007 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 652406)
And I quote (listen to the tapes to hear it from the horses);

"My stepmother and I ended up having this row. And I pushed her down the stairs. Which gave me enormous satisfaction. My father didn't speak to me for six months"

She pushed a 60 year old woman down the stairs and then bragged about it. She admitted assault, from her own mouth, she pushed Raine down a flight of stairs. Stop defending her and making out it didn't happen when it very obviously and undeniably did happen.

I'm not saying she didn't, but it seems that when she admitts having done something bad then you believe it like it's undeniable truth. But when she says something where she is on the victim 'side' (like Raine in this matter), then it becomes an absolutely doubtful declaration. I know you don't like her but you can't say that she didn't had any good sides.:flowers:

BeatrixFan 08-11-2007 05:33 PM

Oh I see, so she was justified in throwing an old lady down some stairs? I'm not saying she didn't have any good sides, I'm saying that her mistakes can't be covered up by sentiment. The bare-faced, naked truth is that she pushed Raine Spencer down a flight of stairs and then professed to enjoy it. No judgement, plain facts.

TheTruth 08-11-2007 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 652418)
Oh I see, so she was justified in throwing an old lady down some stairs? I'm not saying she didn't have any good sides, I'm saying that her mistakes can't be covered up by sentiment. The bare-faced, naked truth is that she pushed Raine Spencer down a flight of stairs and then professed to enjoy it. No judgement, plain facts.

I never said it was justified. Doing such a thing is awful. What my thoughts were is that you have the views of Diana on that one but like I said, in other matters, where she's not the one who caused something you doubt what she says. How come you belive her on that one ?

Sorry Mods, delete as you like.

BeatrixFan 08-11-2007 05:41 PM

I have never denied anything I've heard Diana say herself. And I heard her say that she pushed Raine. So I believe she did - I know she did. I believe her on "this one" because there's primary evidence that she did, primary evidence that some would love to cover up because they can't see any bad in her which to me is just sad.

TheTruth 08-11-2007 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 652422)
I have never denied anything I've heard Diana say herself. And I heard her say that she pushed Raine. So I believe she did - I know she did. I believe her on "this one" because there's primary evidence that she did, primary evidence that some would love to cover up because they can't see any bad in her which to me is just sad.

Oh okay. It's fine now with me, I just wanted to know why. But I've never said she didn't had a bad side either. No one's perfect (no, not even the Queen)

sirhon11234 08-11-2007 05:49 PM

When exactly did Princess Diana push Raine down the stairs?

BeatrixFan 08-11-2007 05:55 PM

1989. Raine had just turned 60.

rebbevb 10-30-2008 10:44 PM

BeatrixFan How do u know Raine spencer and is she still alive ?

sirhon11234 10-30-2008 11:08 PM

Raine Spencer is very much alive.

Mermaid1962 10-31-2008 10:25 PM

I remember reading the "stairs" story in a book, and I really didn't want to believe it; but then I saw her admitting to it--I think in one of the Settleton tapes--and that confirmed it. Diana lacked boundaries, to say the least.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 652422)
I have never denied anything I've heard Diana say herself. And I heard her say that she pushed Raine. So I believe she did - I know she did. I believe her on "this one" because there's primary evidence that she did, primary evidence that some would love to cover up because they can't see any bad in her which to me is just sad.


sherylal24 11-01-2008 12:08 AM

It was written in a book I read about Diana that when her mom came to the house at Althorpe, I think it was for her brother Charles wedding, her father and stepmother ignored Frances and Diana became angry and confronted Raine about it. Raine replied,"You don't realize the amount of pain that woman caused your father", to which Diana replied,"Pain Raine? You have no idea what pain is" I think Diana was referring to the pain that Raine had caused Diana and her sisters and brother when she married Diana's father. At that point Diana pushed her down the stairs.

sherylal24 11-01-2008 12:19 AM

I also think that Diana's sisters and brother must have softened towards Raine as she was invited to Diana's funeral and she went.

Menarue 11-01-2008 04:37 AM

From what I have read the sole reason for Diana disliking Raine was that she married her father....the old stepmother story.
They(the children) also resented the way she set to work to put the family finances in order which meant having to sell off some things. Probably that was why they were still able to inherit a considerable fortune after their father´s death). I believe Raine was rather badly treated and the final insult was when her mother, Barbara Cartland, wasn´t even invited to the wedding although she had always been kind to Diana and Diana´´s favourite books were hers she was said to devour them and was always given the latest to read by Barbara. The reason for not inviting her that I heard was that Diana didn´t want that overdressed "eccentric" elderly lady taking away any attention from Diana the bride....
A young woman pushing an older woman down the stairs....... well to say the least it is not "done".

sirhon11234 11-01-2008 04:31 PM

According to the Daily Mail (I know not a very relaible source)
Quote:

A group of snide and snobbish courtiers, allegedly encouraged by Princess Margaret, campaigned to influence Earl Spencer into withdrawing the two tickets he had allocated to his mother-in-law for the wedding in St Paul's Cathedral
A drunken husband and five secret lovers: The novel Barbara Cartland never wanted you to read | Mail Online

Menarue 11-01-2008 04:54 PM

The Earl at the time was not very well, you could see he was not when there was that tiny moment of confusion at the entrance to St Paul´s. I think that the snub given to Raine had to come from Diana, I don´t think that any courtier, snobbish or snide could do anything about an invitation to whom, in fact, was the bride´s step grandmother. It was very cruel, and as an admirer óf Princess Margaret I really hope that she wasn´t capable of such cruelty, as cruelty it was.

kbear 11-01-2008 05:44 PM

Not a Diana fan at all but long been fascinated by the relationship between these two. I must say from what I recall of the stairs story, they were speaking on the stairs and Diana shoved her away in a temper, no dramatic roll down three flights or anything. I remember an interview with Diana where she said the breakdown of her own marriage helped her to understand her stepmother better and she came to appreciate how much Raine had actually helped the Spencer family (I believe this referred to financially but I could be wrong.)

georgiea 11-05-2008 04:34 PM

I have read that Diana, Princess of Wales was asked by her father to watch out for Raine Spencer before he died in 1992.

Also I read that after Princess Diana had the last break up with her Mother, she relied on her relationship with Raine to have a mother figure and to make her mother jealous.:flowers:

agogo 07-16-2010 02:24 AM

So many childhood hurts are hard to bear. Diana and Raine made peace with one another. That speaks volumes about Diana's character.

Mermaid1962 07-16-2010 03:35 AM

And Raine's, considering how badly Diana treated her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by agogo (Post 1112001)
So many childhood hurts are hard to bear. Diana and Raine made peace with one another. That speaks volumes about Diana's character.


spencerdiana1961 07-30-2010 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hsieh (Post 404783)
princess diana admitted on video tape that she once pushed her stepmom down the stairs because she was angry that her stepmom didn't say hi to her real mom during some event. if you or me pushed an old lady down the stairs we would be kissing the pavement with a german shepard attached to our leg and handcuffed. so my question is why does princess diana have so many fans when she admitted on tape she pushed her stepmom (an old lady at that) down the stairs because she didn't say hi to her mom? :confused:

THIS IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM WONDERING WHY ARE STILL DIANA FANS !!
Diana's step-mom did awful things to her,when her dad was in the hospital,close to Christmas time,she didn't let the children to see him,when she came into the Spencer Family,Diana and her little brother,Charles,were ignored in not in good relations with her,because,Di said in the book ''Diana-Her true story'',that ''She was always trying to replace mommy'' and she hated this feeling,so,at her brother's wedding,Diana's mom was ignored by everybody that day,that's why Diana got angry by this,is simply normal!!Is not your problem if are Diana fans or not after this situation,is not your problem why Diana threw her step-mom on the stairs!
I hope you won't think anything bad or wrong about this,but that's the way I think and what I believe in,I tell in front.
Thank you.

Al_bina 02-18-2012 12:13 PM

Quote:

The familiar handwriting is touchingly girlish, a big loopy scrawl on pale blue writing paper headed with a ‘60, Coleherne Court’ address.
The tone is warm, affectionate and confiding. ‘Lucky Daddy having you,’ wrote the then Lady Diana Spencer to her supposedly loathed stepmother, Raine, ‘a million thanks for all your support and advice.’
This is one of two letters, both more than 30 years old, which were this week withdrawn from sale at JP Humbert, a Northamptonshire auction house and returned to Raine, Countess Spencer.
A wicked stepmother? No, Diana came to love 'Acid Raine' more than her real mother | Mail Online

royal-blue 01-01-2014 06:22 PM

Raine Spencer, Countess Spencer
 
I have see Charles and Camilla referred to as Prince George's "grandparents" many times over the past few months. If Camilla is to be classed as this, then why is Raine Spencer never referred to as the great grandmother? She was married to Princess Diana's father for 16 years until she was widowed.

LadyGabrielle 01-01-2014 06:41 PM

I often wonder how close the connection to that part of the family is. I noticed that they are hardly ever mentioned anywhere. Its a shame that Dianas side of the family seem to be more like outcasts than anything. I wonder why there isnt more closeness.

Osipi 01-01-2014 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by royal-blue (Post 1629990)
I have see Charles and Camilla referred to as Prince George's "grandparents" many times over the past few months. If Camilla is to be classed as this, then why is Raine Spencer never referred to as the great grandmother? She was married to Princess Diana's father for 16 years until she was widowed.

When you think about it, Raine Spencer has absolutely no blood ties to George but I imagine that should be listed as George's step-grandmother as Camilla is, in truth, a step-grandmother also. We really don't have a clue what William's relationship is like with Raine and perhaps if they do visit, George will call her "granny" or something similar.

Raine Spencer also went on to marry again after Diana's father died. It could be very possible that Raine hasn't kept up with any of the Spencer relations after her remarriage.

Mirabel 01-01-2014 07:06 PM

I always heard that Raine didn't get along with any of the Spencer children.

I know her relationship with Diana improved somewhat, but I don't think she was close to any of the others.

cepe 01-01-2014 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osipi (Post 1629995)
When you think about it, Raine Spencer has absolutely no blood ties to George but I imagine that should be listed as George's step-grandmother as Camilla is, in truth, a step-grandmother also. We really don't have a clue what William's relationship is like with Raine and perhaps if they do visit, George will call her "granny" or something similar.

Raine Spencer also went on to marry again after Diana's father died. It could be very possible that Raine hasn't kept up with any of the Spencer relations after her remarriage.

Actually she is further removed as step great grandmother (same "level" as the Queen, not grandparents)

Osipi 01-01-2014 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirabel (Post 1630001)
I always heard that Raine didn't get along with any of the Spencer children.

I know her relationship with Diana improved somewhat, but I don't think she was close to any of the others.

I think that showed when after Johnnie Spencer passed away and Charles inherited Althorp, Raine vacated the premises. I think at best, Raine was tolerated by the Spencer children and perhaps, as you stated, their relationship improved with age.

One thing I'm wondering now after looking at some some facts about Raine is that I've noticed her maiden name was McCorquodale. Is there any relationship between Raine's family and Neil Edmund McCorquodale that married Diana's sister Sarah?

Spheno 01-01-2014 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osipi (Post 1630009)
One thing I'm wondering now after looking at some some facts about Raine is that I've noticed her maiden name was McCorquodale. Is there any relationship between Raine's family and Neil Edmund McCorquodale that married Diana's sister Sarah?

second cousins once removed

George McCorquodale ->Alexander Cowan McCorquodale ->Alexander George McCorquodale ->Raine Spencer
George McCorquodale ->Harold McCorquodale ->Kenneth McCorquodale ->Alastair McCorquodale -> Neil Edmund McCorquodale

cepe 01-01-2014 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osipi (Post 1630009)
I think that showed when after Johnnie Spencer passed away and Charles inherited Althorp, Raine vacated the premises. I think at best, Raine was tolerated by the Spencer children and perhaps, as you stated, their relationship improved with age.

One thing I'm wondering now after looking at some some facts about Raine is that I've noticed her maiden name was McCorquodale. Is there any relationship between Raine's family and Neil Edmund McCorquodale that married Diana's sister Sarah?

Nice and complex. Quote from Wiki:

Raine McCorquodale is the only child of novelist Dame Barbara Cartland and Alexander McCorquodale, an Army officer who was heir to a printing fortune. Her parents divorced in 1936, and her mother promptly married Alexander McCorquodale's cousin, Hugh McCorquodale, by whom she had two sons, Ian and Glen McCorquodale.

Also from Wiki:

Lady Sarah Spencer married Neil Edmund McCorquodale (born 1951), son of Alastair McCorquodale and Rosemary Sybil Turnor, on 17 May 1980 in Northamptonshire, England.[2] Neil McCorquodale is a nephew of Lady Sarah's stepmother, Raine Spencer.

Crikey!

XeniaCasaraghi 01-01-2014 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by royal-blue (Post 1629990)
I have see Charles and Camilla referred to as Prince George's "grandparents" many times over the past few months. If Camilla is to be classed as this, then why is Raine Spencer never referred to as the great grandmother? She was married to Princess Diana's father for 16 years until she was widowed.


Perhaps if Raine was still married to Johnny then she would be referred to as that. Camilla is married to his grandfather but his maternal great grandfather is dead so why would his widow be referred to as his step great grandmother.

US Royal Watcher 01-01-2014 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi (Post 1630029)
Perhaps if Raine was still married to Johnny then she would be referred to as that. Camilla is married to his grandfather but his maternal great grandfather is dead so why would his widow be referred to as his step great grandmother.

Even when her husband was alive Raine was never referred to as William and Harry's grandmother--mainly because Diana's mother was still alive. I tend to think some news outlets insist on referring to Camilla as George's grandmother to stir up Diana fans who still resent Camilla. Some media thrives on controversy.

MARG 01-02-2014 12:24 AM

:previous: You could be right, although I know several "blended" families that never, ever describe themselves by degrees, steps, halves, etc. Family is family, end of story!

XeniaCasaraghi 05-24-2015 01:58 PM

What I find worse thaN the stairs incident is what Charles did after his father died, essentially just throwing Raine out of her own house. I dont know why that bothers me more. The Spencer children were horrible to Raine and it seems she did nothing to deserve it except marry Johnny. It appears William and Harry and the Spencer children have more respect and human compassion for their step mothers.

Ish 05-24-2015 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARG (Post 1630088)
:previous: You could be right, although I know several "blended" families that never, ever describe themselves by degrees, steps, halves, etc. Family is family, end of story!


I was going to say similar.

Camilla could be considered to be George's grandmother (or one of his grandmothers) because she has a good relationship with William and Catherine. Raine, on the other hand, was not close with Diana so to say that she was just a third grandmother to Diana's children would be inaccurate.

MARG 05-25-2015 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirabel (Post 1630001)
I always heard that Raine didn't get along with any of the Spencer children.

I know her relationship with Diana improved somewhat, but I don't think she was close to any of the others.

Hmm, wasn't it Morton's book that chronicled the toxic relationship between Diana and her step-mother? Diana shoving her down the stairs in rage, stuffing all her clothes in rubbish bags and throwing them down the stairs and out the doors after the death of her father. Hardly the way to treat anyone and certainly no pity for her father's widow.

Not much love lost there I suspect!

LauraS3514 05-25-2015 04:52 PM

The four Spencer children, IIRC, were presented with a "fait accompli" in Raine, with the marriage coming nearly out of the blue. What really compounded the rift, however, is something that Raine herself admitted: she refused permission for the Earl's children to visit him in hospital after his stroke, even when the doctors believed he would die. This occurred relatively soon after their marriage and the children never forgave her.

Mermaid1962 05-25-2015 05:17 PM

They also blamed Raine for selling off the family's heritage--furniture and paintings--even though it was necessary to save the Althorp estate. The late Earl Spencer approved, but Raine was blamed for it.

Queen Camilla 05-25-2015 06:33 PM

The mistreatment of Raine by the Spencer family was unforgivable. It shows their true character.

John Spencer met Raine in 1974 and married her in 1975. He had a brain aneurysm in 1978.

John Spencer died in 1992.

Sarah was 19/20/23. She was not a child and she was living on her own by the time John met Raine.

Jane was 17/19/21. She too was not a child. She was living on her own by the time John married Raine and was a married woman when John Spencer had the brain aneurysm.

Diana was 13/14/17. She was a teenager and when John Spencer suffered his brain aneursym she was living in London.

Charles was 10/11/14.

Jane, Diana and Charles had little contact with Raine as they were all in boarding school. When they were on school vacation they split their time between their mother and their father.

All were adults in 1992 and there is no excuse for their behavior. There is no excuse for Diana's behavior in 1989 nor in 1992. She was an adult not a small child.

Pushing a woman down a flight of stairs because she failed to say hello, says it all about Diana and her attitude towards people.

Diana should have been prosecuted for assault.

Raine was considerably older and smaller than Diana. The incident should have been made public in 1989 with all the media's attention focused on Diana's assault and cruelty. Three years later Diana helped her brother throw out Raine's possessions out of Althrop.

Diana was a bully.

Mermaid1962 05-25-2015 06:42 PM

This incident, Diana's slapping her father, and her glee in telling these stories to Peter Settelen are chiefly why I changed my mind about much of Diana's behaviour. There are many, many people who suffer from eating disorders and mood disorders and are 'difficult'--but they don't all participate in these kinds of actions. Since she was so volatile and out-of-control, she should have been medicated.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/d...y.barbaraellen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Queen Camilla (Post 1782822)
Pushing a woman down a flight of stairs because she failed to say hello, says it all about Diana and her attitude towards people.

I think it's normal for the widow of a titled man to leave the 'big house' to make room for the heir and his family, I doubt that it's normally done in such a horrid fashion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi (Post 1782453)
What I find worse thaN the stairs incident is what Charles did after his father died, essentially just throwing Raine out of her own house.


anbrida 05-26-2015 12:51 AM

Diana had a very good relationship with Raine Spencer since 1993. AT DIANA'S instigation, Diana and Raine became friends and their good relationship lasted until her death.

Quote:

"It was at her instigation. She wrote a note to me saying, "Please let's be friends and will you come to lunch?" So then, from then (1993) on, our relationship became very close." -- Raine Spencer to the inequst
And Raine loved Diana very much, here is her own words:
Quote:

"Being a stepmother is a very difficult role, almost unwinnable. The only hope is that you will achieve a certain friendship, but it ended with me loving my stepdaughter very much.” - Raine Spencer
Raine made a very touching statement at the end of her testimony to the inquest of Diana and Dodi's death

Quote:

Raine: Your Lordship, could I crave your indulgence to make only, I promise you, a very short statement, if I could be allowed?

LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Yes.

Raine: It was really that I wanted to thank you, your Lordship, and all the jury and all the legal gentlemen and everyone who has given up so much of their time to try and find out the truth about this matter, because I think anyone who is in this court today will -- who has ever lost a loved one, will know the appalling sense of loss and the feeling that the whole world has fallen away under your feet. I had that feeling when my adored husband died. But for all Diana's relations, her sons, her sisters, her brother, her close friends and all the Fayed family, Mr and Mrs Fayed, the sisters, the brothers and all their relations and uncles and aunts, they have had to go through something which is almost unprecedented, and a tragedy very, very public and beyond any proportion of what any ordinary people could possibly expect. So, thanking you, sir, again, and everyone who is concerned, the court officials, everyone who has had a part of this, I do beg you to do your utmost to solve this mystery, to tear aside anything that could be a cover-up and to sift everything possible and everything indeed impossible in order to allow poor Diana and poor Dodi to at last truly rest in peace.

LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Well, thank you for your sentiments and I am sure I say that on behalf of all of us. We are all certainly trying to leave no stone unturned.

MARG 05-26-2015 01:24 AM

When all is said and done, and written about for that matter, and a not so small forest has been felled to publish Diana's story, it is the words of Diana herself that have caused the most damage to her "Legacy".

The Settelen tapes and Mortons book showed us an ugly, bitter and spiteful person that had, not surprisingly, become increasingly isolated. I believe she thought that if people were not vocal in their support, then they were her enemies. No middle ground.

As for the tapes, one has to wonder why Diana made them because what she disclosed beggared belief. It is bad enough to read some of the cruel things that Diana did and published in Mortons book. But along came the Settelen tapes and you could hear her spite, malice and sheer glee at some to the almost unbelievable things she did and said. The questions from Barbara Ellen's article still remain. Who and what did she make the tapes for?

Focus: the Diana tapes | UK news | The Guardian

To hear that Raine not only forgave Diana but also came to love her, says more about the true nature of Raine than Diana. But, that Raine forgave her did not alter the fact of what Diana did and said and how ugly it all was. With Diana playing her usual games, she missed out on the warmth and love of a really generous woman who loved her in spite of everything.

anbrida 05-26-2015 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARG (Post 1782918)
To hear that Raine not only forgave Diana but also came to love her, says more about the true nature of Raine than Diana. But, that Raine forgave her did not alter the fact of what Diana did and said and how ugly it all was. With Diana playing her usual games, she missed out on the warmth and love of a really generous woman who loved her in spite of everything.

I do believe love is mutual. There must be some special qualities about Diana which make Raine loved and missed her so much. You won't love someone who is mean to you. One thing I am quite sure that, the "Diana" Raine knew was very different to the "Diana" you knew. So no comparison here.

And it make me feel sick to hear that you call Diana's commitment and effort to help those mine victims as "a game". You might not like her method, but you should not degrade her intention as "playing a game". It is outrageous to me.

Iluvbertie 05-26-2015 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anbrida (Post 1782922)
I do believe love is mutual. There must be some special qualities about Diana which make Raine loved and missed her so much. You won't love someone who is mean to you. One thing I am quite sure that, the "Diana" Raine knew was very different to the "Diana" you knew. So no comparison here.

Love is NOT mutual.

Many people love someone whose love isn't returned. It happens many, many times.

The one thing we do know is that Diana had trouble loving anyone and that many people who loved her had their love and friendship thrown back in their faces.

She had many issues - including trouble keeping relationships because of the way she treated people.

royal rob 05-26-2015 06:30 AM

character assassination is what happens here regrading Diana.
Wouldn't happen with a living princess but she's dead so let's say whatever we like ! I don't understand the hatred people have for her or why they are allowed to be disrespectful when we can't be with any living princess. JMO


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

anbrida 05-26-2015 06:53 AM

I think it is absolute not right for Diana to push her step-mother off a step. But it is arguable whether it is due to her character or her mental illness at that time (bulimia and depression).

But I don't see the necessity to over exaggerate it as Diana wanted to harm Raine intentionally. It is a step not stair. It might be a big step or a small step. I tend to believe it is a small step, because considering there were so many guests and photographers in the event (Charles Spencer's wedding was a big social event at that time), no one and no news had came out to talk about this incident at all. So it is very likely so minor that people didn't even notice.

No doubt the incident had happened. But without any witness, any news, there is no need to exaggerate it. The good news is, Diana and Raine became good friends later and the friendship lasted for many years. There is no need to imagine a story like Raine was an angel, Diana was an evil, and the angel loved the evil so much, she missed the evil long after she died, and made a statement to beg for the justice for the evil to make her rip.

royal rob 05-26-2015 08:28 AM

I guess I just don't understand the length people go to take very part of Diana's life and condemn her. I would never spend my time doing that about someone who is dead. There are so many terrible things happening in the world at the moment I would think a royal forum would be a happy retreat away from the bad of the world. IMO they seems to be more hate than love here. I know I should just not read the Diana's threads. But to me and I'm sure others Diana was someone I loved seeing and reading about. But there's no happiness here anything anyone says that is the least bit nice is slapped down. It's all " but this book or I heard or I teach ". I guess you must enjoy it I just don't understand it.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

Dman 05-26-2015 11:53 AM

Are people still going over the rocky start of Diana's relationship with her stepmother, of which their relationship approved very well and long before Diana died?

Mermaid1962 05-26-2015 02:24 PM

I agree with you, Marg. Raine must be a very forgiving woman. :flowers:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARG (Post 1782918)
To hear that Raine not only forgave Diana but also came to love her, says more about the true nature of Raine than Diana. But, that Raine forgave her did not alter the fact of what Diana did and said and how ugly it all was.

I'm one of those people as well. I prefer to look at my old picture books and think about the young, beautiful princess who was only a year older than I. However, that's only part of the picture. I've had to admit, reluctantly, that there were parts of her character that we very different from the public image. I believe that she did care about the people she served. I think that she had a genuine, unaffected kindness and did 'light up a room.' I don't make comments with the intent of slapping down any happy memories. Perhaps there should be a 'happy memories of Diana' thread here for those who want to remember the good times, free of controversy.:flowers:

Quote:

Originally Posted by royal rob (Post 1782984)
But to me and I'm sure others Diana was someone I loved seeing and reading about. But there's no happiness here anything anyone says that is the least bit nice is slapped down. It's all " but this book or I heard or I teach ". I guess you must enjoy it I just don't understand it.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community


Dman 05-26-2015 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 (Post 1783072)
I'm one of those people as well. I prefer to look at my old picture books and think about the young, beautiful princess who was only a year older than I. However, that's only part of the picture. I've had to admit, reluctantly, that there were parts of her character that we very different from the public image. I believe that she did care about the people she served. I think that she had a genuine, unaffected kindness and did 'light up a room.' I don't make comments with the intent of slapping down any happy memories. Perhaps there should be a 'happy memories of Diana' thread here for those who want to remember the good times, free of controversy.:flowers:

She wasn't perfect, but there were lots of good things Diana did and happy memories of her and with her families. A lot of those happy memories get pushed to the deep, dark, and far background in order to make tons and tons of room for the unhappy memories, unfounded rumors and controversy. In the end, those are the memories that stick and are remembered the most. It's just sad.

anbrida 05-26-2015 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 (Post 1783065)
I agree with you, Marg. Raine must be a very forgiving woman. :flowers:

Yes so forgiving that she refused to shake hand with Diana's mother Frances. Raine's explanation is because Frances caused a lot of pain to John Spencer. But don't forget John Spencer was a physical abusive husband too. Even she was right, after so many years she still can not forgive Frances? Doesn't sound like an extremely forgiving person to me.

Don't get me wrong. I don't mean to degrade Raine Spencer, just fed up with the opinion that Raine Spencer loved Diana very much was only because Raine was such an forgiving woman, rather than they just simply had mutual respect and fondness towards each other.

Osipi 05-26-2015 06:41 PM

One thing I do have noticed and need to remark on here. No one is trying to specifically "speak ill of the dead" and degrade Diana. This is a discussion forum and not a teeny bopper fan board and we are here to freely discuss topics in relation to royals. In this sub forum, its Diana.

Diana was human. She was a royal princess that ended up not a royal princess. She did good. She did bad and she did stupid. Just like every one of us if we were honest. She had a short life and was in the public eye. Her mistake was to drag her private affairs and woes of her marriage in front of the camera and press. She did wonderful charity work. She did not get along all the time with people. She died young and tragically. Her life is now frozen in time and the memory of her will fade with time.

We're lucky to have a discussion forum like this to not only remember Diana, but to discuss various facets of her life, her work, her personality and her loves and foibles. To only present the gushing, sweet, gooey things that are Diana is to ignore the total person she was.

Osipi 05-26-2015 07:25 PM

I think what mattered the most is that although there was antagonism between Raine and the Spencer children, Diana and Raine did come to have a good relationship before she died.

soapstar 05-26-2015 09:45 PM

Posts discussing Diana's relationship with Barry Mannakee have been moved to the 'Diana's Friends, Lovers and Bodyguards' thread.

I have had to delete and edit a ton of off-topic posts. This thread is not about religion, Diana's mental health, the relationship she had with Mannakee, or whether or not the younger generation remember her.

I understand that discussions about Diana can be polarizing, but I need to remind everyone that personal attacks against other members are against the forum rules. Any further off-topic posts will be deleted.

MARG 05-27-2015 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anbrida (Post 1782973)
I think it is absolute not right for Diana to push her step-mother off a step. But it is arguable whether it is due to her character or her mental illness at that time (bulimia and depression).
But I don't see the necessity to over exaggerate it as Diana wanted to harm Raine intentionally. It is a step not stair. It might be a big step or a small step. I tend to believe it is a small step, because considering there were so many guests and photographers in the event (Charles Spencer's wedding was a big social event at that time), no one and no news had came out to talk about this incident at all. So it is very likely so minor that people didn't even notice.

No doubt the incident had happened. But without any witness, any news, there is no need to exaggerate it. The good news is, Diana and Raine became good friends later and the friendship lasted for many years. There is no need to imagine a story like Raine was an angel, Diana was an evil, and the angel loved the evil so much, she missed the evil long after she died, and made a statement to beg for the justice for the evil to make her rip.

Trying to whitewash an event that Diana herself talked about on the Settelen Tapes is pointless. It was not a small step, it was not a big step. It was "a flight of stairs" in Diana's own words.
Quote:

"My stepmother and I ended up having this row. And I pushed her down the stairs. Which gave me enormous satisfaction. My father didn't speak to me for six months. I had to go back and say, you know... I love you daddy, etc, etc. I was so angry. I wanted to throttle that stepmother of mine because she brought such grief.
Diana tapes: My troubled childhood | Daily Mail Online

This is a royal forum not a fan site and this thread is about Diana's relationship with her Step-mother. This compulsion to whitewash Diana's behavior and attack anyone who does not agree with you and accuse them of "exaggerating" is totally ridiculous when they are quoting Diana herself. Just as an aside, there is more than one staircase at Althorp.

She was 28 years old when she pushed Raine down the stairs, her joy at what she had done and how sorry she was is reflected in the casual way she describes how she had to manipulate her father to placate him. There is no regret at what she had done four or five years before, just irritation that she had to 'kiss up to daddy' to get back into his good books.

I do not hate Diana, how can you "hate" someone you do not know. But what I do hate is the persistent sanctification of her. She was not an angel and she wasn't the devil, but IMO she was not a particularly nice person. As to Raines statement? It is a matter of public record in a court of law.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dman (Post 1783014)
Are people still going over the rocky start of Diana's relationship with her stepmother, of which their relationship approved very well and long before Diana died?

Um, this thread is named:
Princess Diana's Relationship with her Stepmother, Raine Spencer

The Earl Spencer married Raine, Countess of Dartmouth in 1976. Diana pushed her down the stairs in 1989. Hardly the "rocky start of Diana's relationship with her stepmother".

anbrida 05-27-2015 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARG (Post 1783211)
Trying to whitewash an event that Diana herself talked about on the Settelen Tapes is pointless. It was not a small step, it was not a big step. It was "a flight of stairs" in Diana's own words.
Diana tapes: My troubled childhood | Daily Mail Online

This is a royal forum not a fan site and this thread is about Diana's relationship with her Step-mother. This compulsion to whitewash Diana's behavior and attack anyone who does not agree with you and accuse them of "exaggerating" is totally ridiculous when they are quoting Diana herself. Just as an aside, there is more than one staircase at Althorp.

She was 28 years old when she pushed Raine down the stairs, her joy at what she had done and how sorry she was is reflected in the casual way she describes how she had to manipulate her father to placate him. There is no regret at what she had done four or five years before, just irritation that she had to 'kiss up to daddy' to get back into his good books.

I do not hate Diana, how can you "hate" someone you do not know. But what I do hate is the persistent sanctification of her. She was not an angel and she wasn't the devil, but IMO she was not a particularly nice person. As to Raines statement? It is a matter of public record in a court of law.

First my apologize for the misinformation about the situation. I didn't read the newspaper, I watched the video, I think I missed the "s" at the end. However, what she said was "the stairs" not "a flight of stairs". There are a lot of stairs in Althorp, might be the front door or inside the house. Might be two-step stairs or a flight of stairs.

Obviously that was very terrible behavior. However the "seriousness" of the incidence was really questionable. It happen in Charles Spencer's wedding day. There was no injure report, no news report, no picture, no other people even mentioned about the story, all we have just a few words. But with common sense, the incident didn't cause any turmoil, otherwise in such a big social event with so many guests and photographers, there would be too many witnesses available. So I think there is no necessity to imagine Diana had done some serious crime.

About she didn't show regret in the tape. First, definitely she should apologize which finally she did. And if she was talking about this event with Raine, and she didn't show any remorse, that was terrible. However she was talking about this to a third person many years later, and the incidence was not a serious one. From the context, she was talking about how bad Raine treated her mother, how Raine not allowed the children to see their father for 16 weeks, it would be really unnatural to expect her suddenly show great remorse when she talked about that incident.

The event happened because Raine even refused to say "hi" to Diana's mother Frances who was still the groom's mother, which should get full respect in her son's wedding. So don't portrait Raine as some angel who have a huge ability to forgive people and therefore can love anybody no matter how bad they are. Raine was just a normal person.

About Raine's statement in the court. There is no law requiring her to issue any statement. She took the initiative and was the only one in the court to do so. And there was other news which showed she cared about her step daughter a lot.

Finally, I state again, it was terrible for Diana to go physical. And it showed Diana could have huge tantrum. It is arguable whether it is due to her character or her state of mental illness (depression and bulimia).

But I don't think people should just use such a unclear event to define one person. If you notice, this single event was talked from the first post of this thread 9 years ago till today. There were so many lovely stories between Raine and Diana, but the lasting memory was this negative event.

Queen Camilla 05-27-2015 03:37 AM

Normally the family gathers first before the guests arrive which would account for very few people being aware of Diana's temper tantrum and her assaulting her step-mother.

Her father did not speak to her for 6 months, clearly John Spencer consider Diana's actions serious enough to warrant not speaking to his daughter for 6 months.

If you read the entire section both John and Raine did not say hello to Frances. Note the hypocrisy in Diana's words.

Quote:

"My father and stepmother refused to even say hello to my mother. And it got me so angry, the behaviour of these grown-ups, that I ploughed in and screamed at my stepmother and my father. I said it was very bad manners.

"They were just indulging themselves and this was Charles's day and Victoria's. Do we have to live in the past every time mummy walks in the house?"https://cdn.theroyalforums.com/forums...or/menupop.gif

"My stepmother and I ended up having this row. And I pushed her down the stairs. Which gave me enormous satisfaction. My father didn't speak to me for six months. I had to go back and say, you know... I love you daddy, etc, etc. I was so angry. I wanted to throttle that stepmother of mine because she brought such grief.

"She kept saying to me, 'Oh, but Diana. you're so unhappy in your own marriage. You're just jealous of daddy's and my relationship.' And jealousy was not high on the agenda. It was behaviour I was after. She said, 'You don't know how much we've suffered because of Frances.' I said, 'Suffering, Raine? You don't know the word. I see suffering of such magnitude in my role that you would never even understand.'

"I really spat it out at her. I said, 'We've always hated you. You've ruined our family life. You've done a great job there, Raine. Great job. Made us really unhappy. I hope you're pleased about that.'"

Diana tapes: My troubled childhood | Daily Mail Online

anbrida 05-27-2015 05:55 AM

I think we better look at a bigger context. Here is what Queen Camilla missed out

Quote:

We used to behave like homing pigeons to him. Lovely house. Everything else -- she moved in. It's out.
She is a bully, she doesn't know how to treat individual.
They say, the expert say, the stroke was brought on by the tension between the four children and a step-mother, which is very true, I am sure.
She wouldn't let us see him for about 16 weeks in hospital.
However This is only a very casual, private non-formal dialogue between two persons, when obviously Diana was in a bitter mood, when her marriage was falling apart. It is not a formal statement. The tapes were never supposed to be disclosed to the public. Does it really surprise everyone that when she was in a bitter mood, she would use extreme words, she would be not fair enough? What is the point to put such scrutiny on EVERY WORD she said in that tape, and then being so judgmental.

About showing no remorse. Obviously when the tape was made, she was bitter towards her step-mother, no matter she was right or wrong. But there is no good judge for family affair. Within the context, how can one moment she show bitterness towards one person, and then suddenly show remorse to the same person. Diana had bulimia not schizophrenia.

I just restate it again. That is only a casual, private, non-formal dialogue, when Diana was in a bitter mood as her marriage was falling apart. In my opinion, it is irrational to put such scrutiny on every words she said in this tape. No one would wish their private, casual words to be examed one-by-one in such strict and judgmental manner.

XeniaCasaraghi 05-31-2015 10:50 PM

Holy crap, I just discovered Raine had her own children. How have I never heard this before?

Osipi 05-31-2015 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi (Post 1785060)
Holy crap, I just discovered Raine had her own children. How have I never heard this before?

She has 4 children from a previous marriage to Gerald Legge, 9th Earl of Dartmouth. They married in 1947 and divorced in 1976). Children are William, Rupert, Charlotte and Henry.

Another interesting fact is that a year after the death of Johnnie Spencer, she remarried again to Comte Jean-François Pineton de Chambrun and they subsequently were divorced in 1995.

Ish 05-31-2015 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osipi (Post 1785064)
She has 4 children from a previous marriage to Gerald Legge, 9th Earl of Dartmouth. They married in 1947 and divorced in 1976). Children are William, Rupert, Charlotte and Henry.



Another interesting fact is that a year after the death of Johnnie Spencer, she remarried again to Comte Jean-François Pineton de Chambrun and they subsequently were divorced in 1995.


So... both of Diana's sons and her granddaughter share names with her step-siblings?

Osipi 05-31-2015 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ish (Post 1785066)
So... both of Diana's sons and her granddaughter share names with her step-siblings?

It looks that way doesn't it. :biggrin:

I think too that among the aristocratic set, some names are just very, very British and very, very popular. I'm just glad that Rupert was put to the side. Its not a name I really care for much.

Frelinghighness 05-31-2015 11:57 PM

Raine was such a disaster, the whole divorce was such a terrible scar on the family especially for Diana and her younger brother. That any of the children ever spoke to her, after her truly taking over their father and the estate and selling so many of the treasures, is a miracle.
Of course, people love to blame the women, but it was john spencer who allowed his new wife so much power.

Osipi 06-01-2015 12:27 AM

Althorp was definitely a bone of contention in the Spencer family. It wasn't only Raine that was selling off but actually the entire family. There were various differences of opinion on just what should be done. Charles Spencer, at the time was the manager of the estate for his father and Raine wanted to redecorate the rooms at Althorp in ways that the children did not agree with.

I did find an old article that was published around the time of the Battle at Althorp.

Princess Di vs. Wicked Stepmother : Royalty: Countess Spencer is selling off family heirlooms against her stepchildren's wishes, insiders say. The British are all atwitter over tiff. - latimes


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