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regardez 12-03-2005 12:57 PM

Reasons for disliking Diana?
 
I hope this thread is allowed. I didn't see anything specifically against it.

I was just wondering what some people's reasons for disliking Diana are (including courtiers, HM the Queen, and the general public).

Before I came to these boards I hadn't heard anything negative about her (besides her emotional problems) so I was curious about what specifically the reasons are.

I mean this stricly in an analytical and intellectual way (i.e. keeping the no name calling rule, etc.) I understand that sometimes people simply don't like a person, but if somebody has reasons (or knows what's been reported by the press about other people disliking her) I would be very interested in hearing it.

Claire 12-03-2005 01:22 PM

I think the first thing you have to realise is that Diana was human like all of us and was just as fallible as we all are. It is pointless to make her into a perfect human being, because noone is and Diana certainly wasn't.

I met Diana and worked with a number of people that me her and worked with her. She was very demanding and needed things to be done her way. Diana certainly had her bad days and I probably saw one. She was visiting a hospital in South Africa, she arrived late, and the press that had gathered wasn't big enough for her, which was was quite unhappy about. Then she turned at the gathered children and asked if there were sicker children available for her to have her photo taken with. I was not the only one who thought that this request was low. Well, then again which works better in PR a beautiful princess with a child that looks near death or ones that are terminally ill and look healthy.
I can certainly understand the press irratation with Diana. She would phone them - some young journalists that don't even cover royal isssues and have long talks over the phone. She would tell them about where is was and what she was doing. But when they arrived to take photos of the event or published the information - she would cry to the Queen and the Press Complaints Commission that they were invading her privacy. It always surprises me that people don't remember that she lied to the Queen and the PCC about her co-operation in the Andrew Morton book and even almost had her own brother-in-law fired, as she had accused him of been the leak from the palace.

Then there is the malevalent and vengful Diana who obviously felt that she had been done wrong by anybody that dared cross her path. She had members of staff fired from Buckingham Palace. Walking up to Tiggy, a friend of Prince Charles, William and Harry and assusing her of having an affair with Charles and apologising 'terrible sarcastically' about a supposed miscarraige, during a well attended royal function. I can understand why the staff thought she might be mentally unstable, the prank phone calls she made to the Queen Mother, for apparently ruining her life, to Camilla Parker Bowles. Even to Sophie Rhys-Jones because Diana believed that as the Queen liked Sophie more, she could became more popular with the British people. The sad thing is as royal telephones are monitored to find stalkers and such. Diana was easily found and the police could only shake their heads.
Diana did not like threats, anyone who threatened her popularity, status. She would find a way of ditching in the press: Sarah, Camilla, Sophie, Helen - even celebrities like Catherine Zeta Jones and Jill Dando.

Sad, actually that Diana was capable of such great things and than could also do this. So I really can't blame people who knew her and worked with her was saying that she had her faults. She was a complicated personality, that I believe was fianlly sorting things out.
But these are not reason to dislike Diana. We are too close to the events of her life and death to possibly make value judgements. In about fifty years from now when the whole truth of Diana is known, I would love to know what the world's historians make of her.

regardez 12-04-2005 02:36 AM

Thank you for your reply! That was very interesting. I had never heard any of that. The American press paints a perfect picture of Diana. Sometimes they would report that the royal family didn't like her but they wouldn't really say why. It is also interesting to hear what the every-day person thinks. It was interesting to hear those things I never knew about the prank calls

Margrethe II 12-04-2005 03:39 AM

Not doubting that you did infact meet Diana and others associated with/ working alongside her, but I find your comment about Diana turning to sick children and asking if there were any sicker ones she could have her photo taken with quite hard to believe (of course not saying it did'nt happen).

"MII"

Skydragon 12-04-2005 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claire
She was visiting a hospital in South Africa, she arrived late, and the press that had gathered wasn't big enough for her, which was was quite unhappy about. Then she turned at the gathered children and asked if there were sicker children available for her to have her photo taken with. I was not the only one who thought that this request was low. Well, then again which works better in PR a beautiful princess with a child that looks near death or ones that are terminally ill and look healthy.
.

I can believe and relate to everything you say. I too have experience of this woman but, I think you are very brave to put your story on here!:)

ysbel 12-04-2005 06:44 AM

It's interesting to hear of your own meeting with Diana. Although we don't know how they are all the time and the comment about sicker children is hard to excuse, I think a lot of celebrities have 'off' days.

One very famous entertainer and a known lover of children visited a primary school in my hometown. I don't know the details of what happened but several teachers and parents were apparently upset at the way he treated the children and every time his name is brought up they still talk about it. This was 40 years ago. It made me think that being a much loved celebrity can be a tricky situation - every one has off days but unfortunately for a celebrity, people remember yours.

I still would hope that people wouldn't hate Diana or any other celebrity just because of meeting them one time or what they see in the news. Its still hard to know a person just from that.

skydragon, are you saying that you actually met Diana?

betina 12-04-2005 08:05 AM

I am not the biggest fan of Diana but I think it is bad to make a thread of why we not like her. She is dead and cant defend herself, so leave her alone in peace.

dakodas 12-04-2005 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betina
I am not the biggest fan of Diana but I think it is bad to make a thread of why we not like her. She is dead and cant defend herself, so leave her alone in peace.

By that argument history books should only report the good things that happened!

Smilla 12-04-2005 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betina
I am not the biggest fan of Diana but I think it is bad to make a thread of why we not like her. She is dead and cant defend herself, so leave her alone in peace.

If she had been an entirely "private" person I might agree, but since she was a person who lived her life in the limelight and was a public figure, I think her role can be analyzed and reassessed even if she is dead. Why not? That's what we do when we read biographies or historical books.

Britters 12-04-2005 11:18 AM

I don't actually dislike Diana-but I thought I'd comment on here to explain my position, as in some posts it may come off as disliking the Princess.

I believe Diana was a woman with GREAT potential to do unbelievable things, however I also believe the reports that she was severly emotionally troubled for whatever reason...therefore my problem comes in when Diana supporters make her into this saint that she wasn't. She was a human, who used the press to portray her in a good light...and while people go on and on about how great she was and how people should let her rest in peace, they can't seem to let her rest... (does that even make sense?)

At any rate, I think she did some amazing things for little known causes and should be recognized and commended for those efforts. However, she was also a young woman who had a lot more growing up to do before her death, and was by no means perfect.

ysbel 12-04-2005 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britters

At any rate, I think she did some amazing things for little known causes and should be recognized and commended for those efforts. However, she was also a young woman who had a lot more growing up to do before her death, and was by no means perfect.

That makes sense Britters. At the same time, I would hope that nobody blames Diana or anyone else for the actions of other people that they don't directly control.

Elspeth 12-04-2005 11:27 AM

Well, I'm not sure how relevant it is that she's dead and can't defend herself because even if she was alive she'd be very unlikely to show up here and respond to critics. She also put her side of things out in the public domain for several years before her death, so it isn't as though we were unfamiliar with her side of things.

Having said that, I hope the posters here will restrict themselves to talking about their own opinions, as requested in the original post, and not let this thread descend into Diana bashing, Charles bashing, Camilla bashing, or fights with other members. Once that starts, the moderators will be editing or deleting offending posts. It seems as though Diana was a person who elicited strong reactions, both positive and negative, and an exploration of the latter is an appropriate topic of conversation as long as it stays calm and as objective as possible.

While we're well aware that this topic has been covered in previous threads, I don't think it serves any useful purpose to bring those threads up as examples of how not to conduct a conversation about a difficult topic. I'd very much rather see this thread turn into a good-faith attempt at discussing a difficult topic in the right way. I'm sure the members are up to the challenge if they stop and think before posting and don't just rush in with their raw emotions on their sleeves.

Skydragon, if you have any anecdotes about meeting Diana to report, please go ahead; that would be exactly the sort of post regardez was hoping for. Negative comments about other posters, however, are not what we're looking for. You'll probably notice that Claire is still alive and well after having made her post. I have every confidence that that state of affairs will continue.;)

Elspeth

British Royals moderator

corazon 12-04-2005 11:45 AM

diana not was saint or perfect, nobody is, she was human like all of us. we never said ''diana was perfect'' not is this way, but we defend her when the people said lies about her. We not talk for talk, we investigated ( i have 8 years and a little more investigating with different sources) and when I read some is lie I reply refend diana because in some case i know about i talking about, I not know diana from 1 year or one month.

Skydragon 12-04-2005 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspeth
Well, I'm not sure how relevant it is that she's dead and can't defend herself because even if she was alive she'd be very unlikely to show up here and respond to critics. She also put her side of things out in the public domain for several years before her death, so it isn't as though we were unfamiliar with her side of things.

Skydragon, if you have any anecdotes about meeting Diana to report, please go ahead; that would be exactly the sort of post regardez was hoping for. Negative comments about other posters, however, are not what we're looking for. You'll probably notice that Claire is still alive and well after having made her post. I have every confidence that that state of affairs will continue.;)

Elspeth

British Royals moderator

Apologies Elspeth and everyone else, I have duly edited my post.:)

corazon 12-04-2005 11:48 AM

may be the claire's story in africa is true, every of us have bads days, but I need say that was the another diana that visited hospital in the night when the press not was here. She have a very complicatred personality, she was very difficult to understand.

Elspeth 12-04-2005 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skydragon
Apologies Elspeth and everyone else, I have duly edited my post.:)

Well, you haven't edited it to share your experiences, though. Surely they can't have been that bad!;)

Elspeth 12-04-2005 12:26 PM

Corazon, post 13 had better not be accusing anybody on this thread of lying.

This thread is not for defenders of Diana to square off against everybody else. It's for people who didn't like her (and/or who still don't like her) to explain why and to share experiences. You might remember that in Tiaraprin's Diana memorial thread we didn't allow detractors to show up and turn the thread into a fight. In the same way, we're not going to allow the Diana fans to turn this thread into a fight. We're all well aware that there are strong supporters of Diana out there. That isn't what this thread is about. Be warned.

Elspeth

British Royals moderator

corazon 12-04-2005 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspeth
Corazon, post 13 had better not be accusing anybody on this thread of lying.

This thread is not for defenders of Diana to square off against everybody else. It's for people who didn't like her (and/or who still don't like her) to explain why and to share experiences. You might remember that in Tiaraprin's Diana memorial thread we didn't allow detractors to show up and turn the thread into a fight. In the same way, we're not going to allow the Diana fans to turn this thread into a fight. We're all well aware that there are strong supporters of Diana out there. That isn't what this thread is about. Be warned.

Elspeth

British Royals moderator

I not said that HERE, i said in general, when in some place somebody said a lie (not only in forums, in papers too, in tv or radio) the diana fans will defend her. this not is a war, every can feel abiut diana diferent things, Many diana's fans see in diana MNAY diferent things. Many people don's like diana and this is ok.

Elspeth 12-04-2005 12:36 PM

Thank you for the clarification.

Now perhaps we can get back on topic?

corazon 12-04-2005 12:41 PM

;) you're welcome. Not all i said is personal. diana is a concept in general.
of course, we need back the topic.:)

auntie 12-04-2005 01:49 PM

I think that deep down there was this little frightened child who was craving for acceptance and love and would go to any means to get what she wanted, a shame really, but it doesn't excuse any negative behaviour. I remember reading years ago, before Diana died about a lady in a wheelchair wheeling up to her in the opera and not having any greeting back, and she realized that there were no press around... The truth is that we will never know the whole truth!:confused:

Duchess 12-04-2005 02:11 PM

for me it was more "frustration" with Diana. she could have help for her emotional problems but didn't get it. speaking from personal experience...depression is something that she needn't have lived with but instead she chose to and sought out sympathy in any way she could.

Zonk 12-04-2005 02:47 PM

Congrats Ysbel!

Okay..I am going to go out on a limb here...but this is the first that I have heard that Diana would only hug, talk to a person if the press was around. If that was the case....why didn't the Press knew every time that she went to visits hospitals, homeless shelters, etc after hours. Again, its sounds like something that cannot be verified.

Now I am not saying that she didn't speak to everyone who spoke to her..but I am not sure everyone who is in the public eye speaks to EVERYONE who ever talks to them. Sometimes, even if you walk down the street..you need a moment to yourself.

Now if you dislike her (cause everyone is entitled to their opinion) cause they way she handled her marriage break up...well thats totally up to you. And I totally agree with you...as much as I admired Diana, I believe she could have handled that better. But I am not her, nor can I imagine what she was feeling..depression or not. Walk a mile in her shoes, and I am sure we all would have had a different reaction to the break up of the marriage.

As I have stated in the past...only two people know what happened in that marriage (one is dead and the other is not speaking).

Elspeth 12-04-2005 03:22 PM

Well, she did think she had healing abilities, so there may have been a good motive for wanting to see the sickest of the children. However, it was certainly going to come across that she was most interested in her image in the press.

Princejohnny25 12-04-2005 03:43 PM

I thought she was manipulative and vindictive. A bit of a brat. She needed attention and knew how to work the people. She did do a lot of help even if there were alterior motives though. She was a bit of a nut job. She did think she could heal people and that God talked to her. I think she lived in her own imaginary world sometimes. Anyway, if she wastn so keen on getting back at people who "hurt" her and didnt try tactics to get the people on her side I would like her a lot more. She still did a lot of good work though and I admire her for that.

Elspeth 12-04-2005 03:50 PM

Princejonnhy, assuming you never met here, where and when did you get that impression? Was it from watching news footage and reading articles while she was alive, or from the books written since she died?

Princejohnny25 12-04-2005 03:57 PM

The Bashir interview made me feel like she was trying to manipulate the public. It was obvious that all of it was planned. The make up, eye liner, tilted head. She always tried to portray herself as a miserable women. She is vindictive in that she just couldnt go through a divorce gracefully. She had to make sure to hurt Charles and Camilla. She was always calling the press to make sure they would get a pic of her crying or something. I think she was stuck in a imagenary world since marring. I think she was stuck in the fairytale and when that ended she wanted her and William to take over the monarchy and be these great and glorious leaders. I think the divorce shocked her back to reality. I liked her a lot after the divorce. She was much more stylish and was free to do a lot more work and the press war ended. If she was stronger mentally I think a lot of the drama would have been avoided.

Elspeth 12-04-2005 04:02 PM

I think that, in the longer term, the Bashir interview didn't do her any favours. It generated a lot of sympathy at the time, but it seems as though people increasingly felt they were being manipulated by it. It's a shame things got to the point where she felt the need to do that interview. The very fact that she kept it so secret from even her closest friends meant that she must have had reservations.

Sammy 12-04-2005 05:37 PM

You know, it's really not appropiate to have this thread. I don't see one for disliking any other member of Royalty.
Yes, supposedly, we are welcome to "voice" our opinions in this forum. But to have a thread devoted to bashing, particularly one found under the persons heading is in poor taste.

Smilla 12-04-2005 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sammy
You know, it's really not appropiate to have this thread. I don't see one for disliking any other member of Royalty.
Yes, supposedly, we are welcome to "voice" our opinions in this forum. But to have a thread devoted to bashing, particularly one found under the persons heading is in poor taste.

I don't know that voicing one's reasons for disliking a person can be equalled to "bashing". It's not true that people don't discuss their dislike for any other royal here. If you read some of the CP Mary threads, you might be surprised.

dakodas 12-04-2005 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sammy
You know, it's really not appropiate to have this thread. I don't see one for disliking any other member of Royalty.
Yes, supposedly, we are welcome to "voice" our opinions in this forum. But to have a thread devoted to bashing, particularly one found under the persons heading is in poor taste.

I think it is entirely appropriate if people can remain civil, which they have. The very fact that there are not threads like this for many others attests to the unique passion Diana inspired in her fans and detractors.

Elspeth 12-04-2005 06:06 PM

In fact, the moderators are trying hard to discourage bashing. Since Diana generated strong reactions from people, a thread exploring the reasons for the people who didn't like her is appropriate as long as the participants stay true to the intent of the thread.

branchg 12-04-2005 06:18 PM

I began losing sympathy for her after the Morton book was published. After reading it, I felt she had fed the author half-truths and it just seemed impossible to me that her life could be so miserable that she tried to commit suicide. I also felt it was unseemly for a princess of the UK and mother of a future king to allow such a gross invasion of privacy by cooperating with the book.

In my opinion, the Morton book was the beginning of Diana's downfall as a member of the royal family. She became addicted to the media spotlight and public adulation without realizing what a double-edged sword that had become. As a princess of the UK, she had a duty to uphold the dignity of the monarchy, not diminish it. If she was unhappy in her marriage, then she should have taken some responsibility for her own behavior, rather than just blaming Charles for everything.

The Panorama interview was obviously contrived and rehearsed, right down to her carefully chosen dark suit and black eyeliner/runny mascara. She was playing a very deadly card and her comments about Charles ascending the throne were appalling to say the least. Divorce was inevitable after that.

ysbel 12-04-2005 06:32 PM

Well one problem with the Morton book is that at first she denied involvement in it but kept such close contact with people who were obviously involved, that everybody assumed she did contribute to it. That turned out to be the right assumption.

That probably got a lot of people wondering what was true and what was not.

Elspeth 12-04-2005 07:46 PM

Quote:

I began losing sympathy for her after the Morton book was published. After reading it, I felt she had fed the author half-truths and it just seemed impossible to me that her life could be so miserable that she tried to commit suicide. I also felt it was unseemly for a princess of the UK and mother of a future king to allow such a gross invasion of privacy by cooperating with the book.
I gather you didn't believe her denials about her involvement in the book?

ysbel 12-04-2005 08:17 PM

Diana said in the Panorama interview that she allowed her friends to talk to Morton and then Morton's publisher last year produced tapes of interviews with her that covered a lot of what was in the book.

branchg 12-04-2005 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspeth
I gather you didn't believe her denials about her involvement in the book?

No, I did not.

branchg 12-04-2005 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ysbel
Diana said in the Panorama interview that she allowed her friends to talk to Morton and then Morton's publisher last year produced tapes of interviews with her that covered a lot of what was in the book.

What Diana left out in her interview is that she later regretted the Morton book and felt it had done great damage to her credibility and reputation, which it did.

Incas 12-04-2005 10:27 PM

Didn't Morton or his publisher produce manuscripts with notes from Diana?

Elspeth 12-04-2005 10:34 PM

Its sad that, having realised the Morton book was a mistake, she repeated her mistake by doing the Bashir interview. She really needed people around her who she trusted and who could give her good advice. So many people were self-serving in their interactions with her.

corazon 12-04-2005 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incas
Didn't Morton or his publisher produce manuscripts with notes from Diana?

diana send to morton 6 cassettes. with that (and photos from spencer family and diana's friend words about her royal life) morton write the book.

regardez 12-04-2005 10:44 PM

Well she made a lot of mistakes with manipulating the press, I can understand why the Queen didn't like her for that. But didn't they have differences even before Diana started that stuff?

Incas 12-04-2005 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corazon
diana send to morton 6 cassettes. with that (and photos from spencer family and diana's friend words about her royal life) morton write the book.

I seems to recall seeing a documentary about how the book came about. It concentrated interviews on Morton, his publisher, and a doctor who was the intermediary between Morton and Diana. It was the segments on that doctor that included shots of Diana's notes on the manuscripts. She made corrections on the '82 fall story among others. I remember the doctor mentioning a funny story about transporting the manuscripts Diana in his bicycle basket. He crashed the bike near KP and the paper went flying down the street. He eventually managed to collect all the paper.

Margrethe II 12-04-2005 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by regardez
Well she made a lot of mistakes with manipulating the press, I can understand why the Queen didn't like her for that. But didn't they have differences even before Diana started that stuff?

I dont think it can be said that HM the Queen didn't like her for that or anything, rather, was dissapointed that someone from within her inner circle broke that sanctity of trust that is expected to observed, especially by members of her own family.

The Queen didn't dislike Diana, but felt helpless, hurt and no doubt very concerned about the circumstances that both her son and daughter in-law were facing and as a consequence, 'the firm' & its image. I can understand this 110%. As Monarch, her position must come first and if someone decides to disgrace the Sovereign institution, they may just aswell slap the Queen in the face.

Until Diana's death, it wasn't uncommon for Diana to call the Queen for conversations and infact go and use the pool at either Windsor or Buckingham Palace, where afterwoods, she would have an audience with the Queen for around 15-20 minutes if possible.

Sovereign and subject (contrary to what many believe) where beginning to correspond and were making constant and sincere efforts to get to know each other again; just as she was with Charles. Diana may have not been an actual member of the immediate royal family anymore, but the Queen still felt the same concern and deep down, the same affection for her just as she did during happier times.

You are only ever hurt by those you love!

I said to a certain confidant on the board that I wasn't planning on posting in the British sub forums again any time soon, but I just wanted to add that little contribution.

My kind regards to all,

"MII"

corazon 12-04-2005 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incas
I seems to recall seeing a documentary about how the book came about. It concentrated interviews on Morton, his publisher, and a doctor who was the intermediary between Morton and Diana. It was the segments on that doctor that included shots of Diana's notes on the manuscripts. She made corrections on the '82 fall story among others. I remember the doctor mentioning a funny story about transporting the manuscripts Diana in his bicycle basket. He crashed the bike near KP and the paper went flying down the street. He eventually managed to collect all the paper.

yes, of course that was a intermediary, morton said the true about diana's participation late diana's death. there is very good movie about the history of the book ''the biographer'' is based in morton's words.

corazon 12-04-2005 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margrethe II
I dont think it can be said that HM the Queen didn't like her for that or anything, rather, was dissapointed that someone from within her inner circle broke that sanctity of trust that is expected to observed, especially by members of her own family.

The Queen didn't dislike Diana, but felt helpless, hurt and no doubt very concerned about the circumstances that both her son and daughter in-law were facing and as a consequence, 'the firm' & its image. I can understand this 110%. As Monarch, her position must come first and if someone decides to disgrace the Sovereign institution, they may just aswell slap the Queen in the face.

Until Diana's death, it wasn't uncommon for Diana to call the Queen for conversations and infact go and use the pool at either Windsor or Buckingham Palace, where afterwoods, she would have an audience with the Queen for around 15-20 minutes if possible.

Sovereign and subject (contrary to what many believe) where beginning to correspond and were making constant and sincere efforts to get to know each other again; just as she was with Charles. Diana may have not been an actual member of the immediate royal family anymore, but the Queen still felt the same concern and deep down, the same affection for her just as she did during happier times.

You are only ever hurt by those you love!

I said to a certain confidant on the board that I wasn't planning on posting in the British sub forums again any time soon, but I just wanted to add that little contribution.

My kind regards to all,

"MII"

is true, for example the queen was VERY happy in william's confirmation when the phtoghapher taken the official photo. (the last photo of charles and diana with the queen was in 1994) charles and diana have a good relationship and the queen was happy for that and for them.

love_cc 12-04-2005 11:58 PM

She should have not discuss her private matters with the media and journalists. She used the media to blame the Royal family and Charles for the problems in her marriage. It was an unfair opnion about what happened in the marriage. She should not have used William and Harry to revenge on Charles even he was unfaithful to her. She should have not taken so many lovers in her marriage but only claimed "there are three in my marriage. So it was bit crowded". She painted herself as the only victim and this was very biased and self-pity. I saw the pains but she should try to look back and think about her mistakes in the marriage.

Margrethe II 12-05-2005 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by love_cc
she should try to look back and think about her mistakes in the marriage.

Um... love_cc...I think that rather impossible, given her current condition :)

"MII"

Avalon 12-05-2005 02:07 AM

I was a way too young to have watched the Bashir interview live or read the Morton book at the time it was published (though I did both a bit later). But my Mom and Aunt were (and are) great Diana fans. They always take her side in every single matter and there is no point to try and explain them that there might be a tiny little bit wrong about their judgments. Both my Mom and Aunt have read the Russian translation of the Morton book and it's even more pro-Diana than yo can imagine (yes, Russians sometimes translate not word-to-word bu what is closer to the plot, in their opinion. Good example are Harry Potter books). Anyway I read it in English and the very first impression I got was “for Heaven’s sake, stop complaining and do something”. I really thought it was too much. I mean Diana would blame everyone and everything except her. Sometimes it’s better to be self-critical rather then criticize the others.

And the Bashir interview made me just terribly sorry for her. But no in the way she meant it. I was sorry that a woman of such beauty, talents and possibilities is able to d things like that, to try and manipulate people, to play on the fact they felt sorry for her. I don’t think that exposing your personal life was the very best thing to do. I had the impression that everything was very carefully staged and it was not exactly a pleasant feeling. The Princess tried to sound natural but that exactly what she lacked. I really was sorry for Prince Charles. I suppose it was after I watched the interview that I tried to look at everything from his point of view.

All of the things I wrote are just my opinion. I admit that I criticized her a lot. I named only the things I didn’t like about her but there are loads of things for which I loved her very much. She was a very good person (I believe in that). Had her life not ended so tragically and unexpectedly, she might do great things in her life. She was no saint but she was a very good human.

Idriel 12-05-2005 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margrethe II
I said to a certain confidant on the board that I wasn't planning on posting in the British sub forums again any time soon, but I just wanted to add that little contribution.

Well M II, I hope you stay around. It is always a pleasure to read you clever and well spoken thoughts.
I dearly agree with your analysis of the Queen and Diana relationship.

I don't dislike Diana per se but I agree with some posters the major reason to dislike Diana (beside any judgement of her personal life), would be the way she acted with the media. No only it wasn't a safe move for her own interest and, more important, the monarchy interest but it was incredibly inconsiderate of her children feelings. Reading about your parents sex-life or nasty-meets-nastier divorce on a day to day basis is not the kind of things young boys need.
I would not have expected to be a silently suffering wife or whatever, but clearly she misunderstood or willingly disregarded what her role meant, what her duties were. I she had no remaining loyalty to her husband (and she shouldn't have imo), she should have had her loyalty to her sovereign intact. And exposing the Royal family dirty secrets through Richard Kay and Morton is not my definition of loyalty.

BTW: I'm glad this thread exist, and even happier that everyone is so courteous.

wymanda 12-05-2005 05:42 AM

I was an avid follower of Diana from 1981 (scrapbooks & all) but I rapidly became disillusioned with her when the manipulation of the press became apparent. Tipping off the press when she was taking William & Harry out just so she could be portrayed as the "good parent" and using William as a sounding board to abuse his father really turned me off Diana. Whilst I will refrain from catagorising her as "a nut job" as someone earlier in the thread did, I think that Diana had a lot of emotional issues that would have made any marriage untennable let alone the one that she pursued & entered into which had such a huge public profile.

Margrethe II 12-05-2005 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idriel
Well M II, I hope you stay around. It is always a pleasure to read you clever and well spoken thoughts.
I dearly agree with your analysis of the Queen and Diana relationship.

Merci beaucoup mademoiselle

Je ne sais pas...lol. ;) Oui, Je crois que oui.

Prends garde et bonne journée.

"MII"

Sorry about my bad French Idriel. Definitly wont take it up as a day job anytime soon.lol.

ysbel 12-05-2005 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by love_cc
she should try to look back and think about her mistakes in the marriage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margrethe II
Um... love_cc...I think that rather impossible, given her current condition :)

"MII"

I think part of the healing process when a person starts to get over the emotional difficulties like Diana's is realizing the mistakes you made and then choosing a new healthier path.

It was the lack of taking stock of herself and her situation during the period from 1992 to 1997 that was a little disturbing. Before that she hadn't taken matters into her own hands but after she tried some things that didn't work out one hoped for a little enlightenment of what was healthier for her and her sons.

branchg 12-05-2005 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corazon
is true, for example the queen was VERY happy in william's confirmation when the phtoghapher taken the official photo. (the last photo of charles and diana with the queen was in 1994) charles and diana have a good relationship and the queen was happy for that and for them.

In the last year of her life, by all accounts, the Queen and Diana had a very good relationship, much like with Prince Charles, and things were changing rapidly for the better.

Princejohnny25 12-05-2005 09:51 AM

I think the divorce shocked her back to reality and matured her. I think the Queen saw the good the princess can do and developed a relationship with her. I think she was hurt but I dont think they had a bad relationship. If she had lived I think things would have gotten better. If she wasnt so intent on hurting Charles and making his life hard and portraying herself as a perfect women with no faults a lot more people would like her. She should have been herself and blamed herself for her part. But, she is gone and time has moved on to a different Royal Family.

fandesacs2003 12-05-2005 10:03 AM

I was not a fanatic supporter of Diana, when she was alive. Basically I found her not extremely clever, infantil and manipulator, and her marriage problems did not touch my very deeply, it's not the first timeb such problems arrive, and in women much weaker that her.

Of course she got married young, full of illusions, and she has been cheated on her fairytale expectations ...., this was bitter and difficult to handle for a young girl:confused: .... so, normal she became unstable and depressed...

On the other hand, she obtained a glorious divorce, of course it's sad to divorse, and after that she used all her energy to become an icon, but why it's bad? It's human and understandable for a person who considered herself as fully cheated.... So she did not face such an enormeous tragedy, she was not the only woman whose marriage broke up, it's quite commun. But she managed to present her story in the saddest way, and to gain full of sympathy, this was well prepared and well done with a dose of Machiavelism.

I watched also the Bashir interview, it was obvious for me that she made a wonderfull manipulating performance (make up, dressing, etc), but basically did she lie??? No, I do not think :( , she did tell the truth!

But now she is dead, and she left 2 young orphans, I do not know if it's really appropriate to continue talking about her, in any way, positive or negative. She was a public person, but what about her private side? What do you think that her boys would feel when reading all these topics? They have their own remembers from their mother, which may have been fully different in private that all these press images.

I think the best think we should do for the young Princes it's to forget her. History will come in a couple of years, and put her in her right position, but as WE ALL are not history writers, for William and Harry let her be forgotten. Only them have the right to remember her, not as a public icon, just as their mother.

Princejohnny25 12-05-2005 10:14 AM

They are not orphans, they do have a father. No one is critizing her role as a mother or private person. We are critizing her public life which by her fault includes a "tragic" version of her personal life. She should no be forgotten because she is a warning to keep quite, be gracious and rational and a reminder of the good that royalty can do.

una 12-05-2005 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fandesacs2003

I watched also the Bashir interview, it was obvious for me that she made a wonderfull manipulating performance (make up, dressing, etc), but basically did she lie??? No, I do not think :( , she did tell the truth!

There were 'lies' in this interview, though I'm not sure that lies had the same import to Diana as to most of us, or even that she always knew she was doing it.

lashinka2002 12-05-2005 11:14 AM

Of course Diana was only human, that is why this thread bothers me so! Let's discuss all of her faults that made us dislike her! I never considered her a saint and it's silly that people imply or think that she was. What people see through the eyes of the media or what the catch in person during a fleeting moment in time does not and should not define what you think of Diana for the rest of your lives. Everyone knows that the almost every media outlet exagerates every story out there. As for Diana asking for the sickest child, from a PR point of view as bad as it may sound the sickest looking child would certainly generate the most attention towards her charity cause. Charles may have never slandered Diana publically but he certainly did not defend her, the mother of his children either!

Princejohnny25 12-05-2005 11:26 AM

This is a mature discussion to help others understand why some people are not fans of hers and dont like her as much as others. Why would charles focus extra time on a dead women. The truth is revealed and her good work continues. Charles would have to have been seriously depressed to not move on with his life and focus on his now wife and kids. Diana is gone and is fading into history. Her work continues and that is all that matters.

Smilla 12-05-2005 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princejonnhy25
This is a mature discussion to help others understand why some people are not fans of hers and dont like her as much as others. Why would charles focus extra time on a dead women. The truth is revealed and her good work continues. Charles would have to have been seriously depressed to not move on with his life and focus on his now wife and kids. Diana is gone and is fading into history. Her work continues and that is all that matters.

Thanks for this balanced view!

Oppie 12-05-2005 11:32 AM

I enjoyed reading the other side of the story because a lot of stuff I haven't heard before and this is the side of the story that was never told.

ysbel 12-05-2005 11:51 AM

I've just deleted a lot of references to other threads and topics that have nothing to do whether one likes Diana or not. As Elspeth already mentioned, references to other contentious threads increases the chance that this one will become contentious and most of us want to avoid that.

Making a post asking moderators to close a thread also increases the chance that this thread will be contentious so please don't make any posts here asking us to close the thread. If you have a concern, please send us a private message.

ysbel
British forums moderator

Princejohnny25 12-05-2005 11:56 AM

Wow ysbel has got all moderatery. Weird. Is there a pamphlete that comes along with being a moderator.LOL. I admire Diana for her work and being a great mother. I think she did a lot of good but there are reasons I dont like her. She exagerated her story and it is sad that after realizing it was a mistake there are people who still use the morton book and bashir interview against other royals. I would let it go if others did.

Elspeth 12-05-2005 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princejonnhy25
Wow ysbel has got all moderatery. Weird. Is there a pamphlete that comes along with being a moderator.LOL.

No, we just gave her a minor lobotomy...:D

Princejohnny25 12-05-2005 12:07 PM

Quote:

No, we just gave her a minor lobotomy...:D
Haha, funny. That made my day.

ysbel 12-05-2005 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princejonnhy25
Haha, funny. That made my day.

Elspeth forgot to tell you about the infusion of vampire's blood they give you in the initiation ceremony. Come to think of it, she forgot to tell me! :eek: ;) :D

Princejohnny25 12-05-2005 12:22 PM

haha, becoming a moderator sounds like loads of fun. :rolleyes:

corazon 12-05-2005 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by branchg
In the last year of her life, by all accounts, the Queen and Diana had a very good relationship, much like with Prince Charles, and things were changing rapidly for the better.

yes, is true, i read some tme 8I don't know if is true) taht cahrles said ''if she is happy i am happy too'' about diana and dodi affair.

CasiraghiTrio 12-05-2005 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betina
I am not the biggest fan of Diana but I think it is bad to make a thread of why we not like her. She is dead and cant defend herself, so leave her alone in peace.

I agree. It's annoying when people either paint her as a saint or as some evil, calculating manipulative person. Why can't people just accept her for what she was, someone who could be great as a humanitarian, yet also could be crabby, cranky, tired, jet-lagged, annoyed, angry, sad, happy.... just like the rest of us? Diana was just a person. She was not Evil Cruilla d'evil. Nor was she Saint Diana. She was just Diana. People tend to be very understanding of the flaws of Prince Charles, granting him lenience for being selfish at times because of how he was raised. Why can't Diana have the same sort of slack? She was barely a grown woman when she was pushed into royal life. It took her years to "find herself" and figure out what she was about. She made many mistakes along the way.If she sometimes used the press for her public image, for power, it was because she was a single woman up against a very powerful system.

ysbel 12-05-2005 02:53 PM

People tend to be more understanding of the mistakes of the person they most identify with. Some identify more with Diana and some identify more with someone else.

Princejohnny25 12-05-2005 03:04 PM

I think the reason people wont give Diana any slack, and this is why I still take out some of my fustration at Diana, is because some of her fans use her to hurt others. They use the Morton book and Bashir interview to get back at others and try to punish them. I admire Diana for her work and motherhood. She stood up to the old fashioned ways of raising children and did a great job with Charles raising the kids. But, her interviews and books were a huge mistake filled with overexagerations and lies. Diana realized that they were a mistake and moved on. She matured and developed a good relationship with Charles and the Queen. I would like to put Diana to a peacefull rest with her good works continuing but as long as people use one side of Diana to make life harder for the current Royal Family then it will very hard for people to stop disliking Diana. I accept her as a person and always have but it fustrates me when people still use her to be vindicive. She moved on and I would like the rest of the world to move on too.

sara1981 12-05-2005 03:05 PM

i dont hate Diana

im sure but Diana recalled HM Queen and Queen Mother in the taboilds all the times for more reasons and HM Queen dislike Diana very much.

Princejohnny25 12-05-2005 03:09 PM

I believe the Queen tried to heal and mend her relationship with Diana after the divorce. She obviously saw the good that she could do and the asset she could be to the monarchy especially with the War of the Walses over. Sadly, she died before anything could come of it. Didn't Dianas mother say that, contrary to popular believe, the Queen and Diana got along very well and had a mutual respect for each other.

Margrethe II 12-05-2005 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princejonnhy25
the Queen and Diana got along very well and had a mutual respect for each other.

They most certainly did "PJ", a very deep respect for one another.

"MII"

Princejohnny25 12-05-2005 03:25 PM

"PJ", I know it is something obvious and something I heard before but I am baffeled. Can you decifer it for me MII.

Princejohnny25 12-05-2005 03:27 PM

Wow I am a idiot, only after reading it ten times did I get the "PJ" is me. I feel stupid.:( :) :D

CasiraghiTrio 12-05-2005 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princejonnhy25
I think the reason people wont give Diana any slack, and this is why I still take out some of my fustration at Diana, is because some of her fans use her to hurt others. They use the Morton book and Bashir interview to get back at others and try to punish them. I admire Diana for her work and motherhood. She stood up to the old fashioned ways of raising children and did a great job with Charles raising the kids. But, her interviews and books were a huge mistake filled with overexagerations and lies. Diana realized that they were a mistake and moved on. She matured and developed a good relationship with Charles and the Queen. I would like to put Diana to a peacefull rest with her good works continuing but as long as people use one side of Diana to make life harder for the current Royal Family then it will very hard for people to stop disliking Diana. I accept her as a person and always have but it fustrates me when people still use her to be vindicive. She moved on and I would like the rest of the world to move on too.

I don't think everyone who admires Diana is out to get "the other side". It's not so black and white for everyone. I love Charles and Diana equally. For me, they both made terrible mistakes and they were immature and foolish in their own ways for their own reasons. I cut them both a great deal of slack. For Charles, I think his upbringing is the fault for some weaknesses, and for Diana, it was also a traumatic childhood, but she was also at disadvantage because of her age. I think the whole situation is very complicated and very grey. But for the most part, I think a lot of Diana's mistakes were made by a woman who felt pretty powerless in a world of very powerful people.

Princejohnny25 12-05-2005 03:37 PM

I agree with you Casiraghi trio. But, there are still those few who wont give it up. They both had faults due to their childhood. They both moved on and that chapter ended with the divorce. Sadly, Diana wasnt able to continue her new chapter in life and it ended that night in Paris. She is gone in a better place and we should be happy that Charles was able to move on and continue his new chapter. We have to leave the pain in the past. Dwelling on it hampers the future. Look at the good the Royal Family is doing today. They are getting good publicity and there are many young royals to carry on the tourch and be good people and role models. To be good humans.

CasiraghiTrio 12-05-2005 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princejonnhy25
I agree with you Casiraghi trio. But, there are still those few who wont give it up. They both had faults due to their childhood. They both moved on and that chapter ended with the divorce. Sadly, Diana wasnt able to continue her new chapter in life and it ended that night in Paris. She is gone in a better place and we should be happy that Charles was able to move on and continue his new chapter. We have to leave the pain in the past. Dwelling on it hampers the future. Look at the good the Royal Family is doing today. They are getting good publicity and there are many young royals to carry on the tourch and be good people and role models. To be good humans.

True. I guess bettina really hit the nail on the head when she said that we should not discuss Diana's faults here because she's not alive to defend herself. So I guess Diana deserves more slack than Charles for not being in a position to defend herself against the criticism. You're right, PJ. Charles is in his new chapter and he has the chance now to prove how he has grown up, evolved, and to make things better for himself, his sons, his new wife and , well, everyone, especially those directly impacted by his work. I'm so glad Charles can finally do something for himself. He spent so long doing things only because they were expected of him. Now he has actually chosen his partner instead of having her chosen for him.
:)

ysbel 12-05-2005 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
True. I guess bettina really hit the nail on the head when she said that we should not discuss Diana's faults here because she's not alive to defend herself. So I guess Diana deserves more slack than Charles for not being in a position to defend herself against the criticism.
:)

Well I know it was four pages ago but I read a very good reply to that very question that betina brought up. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspeth
Well, I'm not sure how relevant it is that she's dead and can't defend herself because even if she was alive she'd be very unlikely to show up here and respond to critics. She also put her side of things out in the public domain for several years before her death, so it isn't as though we were unfamiliar with her side of things.


branchg 12-05-2005 04:39 PM

The problem was never with The Queen, who was actually one of Diana's strongest supporters, but with the Queen Mother and Prince Philip, who both later came to believe that Diana was destroying the monarchy and betrayed the Queen's trust. But, by all accounts, The Queen firmly stood her ground and insisted the Princess deserved support and understanding as the mother of a future king.

CasiraghiTrio 12-05-2005 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by branchg
The problem was never with The Queen, who was actually one of Diana's strongest supporters, but with the Queen Mother and Prince Philip, who both later came to believe that Diana was destroying the monarchy and betrayed the Queen's trust. But, by all accounts, The Queen firmly stood her ground and insisted the Princess deserved support and understanding as the mother of a future king.

You really think the relationship between Philip and Diana was as antagonistic as has been reported on? I suppose I may be more unwilling than many to believe Philip is a monster because I admire so many things about him and I truly want to believe the best of him, so I resist those reports that say he hated Diana and vice versa. I don't know about the Queen Mum. She is very enigmatic to me. I don't understand her at all. On the one hand, there's the domineering Queen Mother. On the other hand, there's the grandmother who coddled Prince Charles. So the reports about her conflict each other so much.

branchg 12-05-2005 07:26 PM

I never said Prince Philip was a monster nor do I believe he "hated" Diana. If anything, I think he tried very hard to be supportive of the Princess and, according to Burrell's book, he later came to see how her view of the situation was certainly valid as well.

I think the Queen Mother was very enthusiastic about Diana at first because she was, after all, very fond of Lady Fermoy and had great expectations for the marriage. When those expectations later turned out to be Victorian, rather than suitable to modern reality, she rapidly turned sour on the Princess. She blamed her for not keeping Charles happy, as if that were totally up to Diana to do, and had very little sympathy for Diana's problems and related behavior.

It is clear from many accounts, however, that Prince Philip and the Queen Mother later came to share the view that Diana was a great threat to the standing to the monarchy and greatly distrusted her media manipulations. By the time Panorama aired, they were both finished with her.

CasiraghiTrio 12-06-2005 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by branchg
I never said Prince Philip was a monster nor do I believe he "hated" Diana. If anything, I think he tried very hard to be supportive of the Princess and, according to Burrell's book, he later came to see how her view of the situation was certainly valid as well.

I think the Queen Mother was very enthusiastic about Diana at first because she was, after all, very fond of Lady Fermoy and had great expectations for the marriage. When those expectations later turned out to be Victorian, rather than suitable to modern reality, she rapidly turned sour on the Princess. She blamed her for not keeping Charles happy, as if that were totally up to Diana to do, and had very little sympathy for Diana's problems and related behavior.

It is clear from many accounts, however, that Prince Philip and the Queen Mother later came to share the view that Diana was a great threat to the standing to the monarchy and greatly distrusted her media manipulations. By the time Panorama aired, they were both finished with her.

All of those are very good points. I guess the Queen Mother was not anticipating Diana to have postnatal depression, bulimia or any emotional problems for that matter. A 19-year-old girl from a balanced and healthy background may have been able to slide into the royal family and adjust to public life with ease. I think Camilla certainly would've handled it better. By all accounts, Camilla seems to have been raised by loving parents and to have had lots of support in her life. Poor Diana. No one seems to have anticipated what being Princess of Wales all of a sudden would do to a girl whose self-esteem was non-existent to start off with. I think, in reference to this thread topic, most people like Diana, but sadly, she was her worst critic. No one was harder on Diana than Diana herself.
:(
I saw an old post of someone just now. I don't remember who said it, but the post said that Diana should have sought help for her emotional problems. Didn't she? She had many doctors. She had a psychiatrist (or two) and she saw an eating disorder specialist.
She did seek help, I believe. Professional help.

love_cc 12-06-2005 03:06 AM

Camilla has a much healthier character than Charles or Diana. Camilla keeps a good character at most times. She is important to Charles because she makes up the flaws in his character. That's why Charles wants to be with Camilla because he needs her optimism, understanding and stablity. Camilla can always calm his emotional swings and cheer him up.

I just felt sorry for Prince Charles and Diana. Both of them are badly affected by their miserable childhood and potential character flaws. Their personalities are huge challenges for them to live with each other. Charles needs a more matured and loving wife who can put him above everything even herself. That's what Camilla is about. Diana broke her slience about her marriage and it was no point of return for her with Charles in a marriage. Queen and Duke tried to see Charles's faults but Queen Mother wanted to protect Charles from any harm. That's a big difference. Actually, I think Camilla is too protective of Charles and Charles relies on her protection of emotional harms.

ysbel 12-06-2005 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
I guess the Queen Mother was not anticipating Diana to have postnatal depression, bulimia or any emotional problems for that matter. A 19-year-old girl from a balanced and healthy background may have been able to slide into the royal family and adjust to public life with ease.

You bring up a good point there CasiraghiTrio. I think a lot of Diana's hurts originally came from her childhood but its harder to blame your own family for your feelings of dejection than it is to blame a husband who is not caring.

The Royal Family was definitely not expecting Diana to have these problems and with Diana coming from the family she did, it amazes me that they weren't. A lot of Diana's behavior was very similar to the rest of her family - her parents had a public and nasty divorce, Sarah, who Charles had been dating, had been battling eating disorders, and the whole family was rather impulsive.

One doesn't have to look that far to see why Diana did the things she did; she learned it from her parents and older siblings.

CasiraghiTrio 12-06-2005 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by love_cc
Queen and Duke tried to see Charles's faults but Queen Mother wanted to protect Charles from any harm. That's a big difference.

So you think that the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh (I'll try to get into the habit of using the correct titles!
;) being two very pragmatic people, took a practical, problem-solving approach, trying to figure out where both sides went wrong? While the Queen Mother took a more emotion-based approach and jumped to Charles' defense?
That is a very interesting possibility.

una 12-06-2005 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by branchg
It is clear from many accounts, however, that Prince Philip and the Queen Mother later came to share the view that Diana was a great threat to the standing to the monarchy and greatly distrusted her media manipulations. By the time Panorama aired, they were both finished with her.

The Queen had a duty to ensure the smooth succession of the crown to Diana's child. She had to keep a positive working relationship with her. If Diana had got the idea that the Queen had turned against her, think what she might have done. I think that is the difference between the Queen and her husband/mother. She didn't have the luxury of disliking Diana except in her most private self.

Princejohnny25 12-06-2005 11:09 AM

Quote:

If Diana had got the idea that the Queen had turned against her, think what she might have done.
Thats another reason why people turned against her. She was vindictive and dangerous. You had to stay on her good side. But, I think Diana and the Queen had a genuine relationship after the divorce. Here is my conclusion from what I learned from the board. Diana had a tough childhood which lead to emotional instability. She was very dangerous and did stupid things that hurt the monarchy and her kids. She realized the mistake, finally divorced, and moved on with her life. Also, it may not be Diana herself that turns off many people, but some of her "fans" who use one side of Diana to hurt others. If everyone let her go to a peacefull rest than the everything would be fine.

Incas 12-06-2005 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princejonnhy25
If everyone let her go to a peacefull rest than the everything would be fine.

It's a great sentiment, however, since some of the things she did had a nasty habit of lingering on. The things she may or maynot have given to Burrell and others contributed to his trial, and dragging Charles, William and Harry into it. The tape of alleged rape led to more unkind coverage of Charles. Not to mention her letters to Hewitt and allegation of harm to her car,etc, etc. Her behavior as a grown woman, is more appropriate coming from an impulsiving two year old who wanted different things from moment to moment, without any concept of consequence.

CasiraghiTrio 12-06-2005 01:14 PM

It's true Diana had an ugly side to her personality. She could be irrational. The Panorama interview was a very bad idea. That episode of her life was horrible. She should not have done that interview. Not only was it in poor taste and hurtful to those closest to her, but the interview itself was a disaster. Diana came across seeming like a crazy person! I don't say that to be mean because I adored her. She was a big-hearted woman, but I'm sorry, in that interview, she seemed like a crazy person!

Yes, Diana was at many times irrational and impulsive. Her son Harry takes after her in a sense.

Diana's first mistake was marrying Charles. Her second mistake was staying married to him for so long, hoping he would miraculously change or take pity on her or something. But I suppose even when she must have realized he would never change his heart or forget Camilla or whatever, she probably stayed because of the kids and she didn't want a divorce like her parents.
These are all glaring flaws, but nonetheless all of her mistakes were understandable. They could've happened to anyone.

Idriel 12-06-2005 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
She should not have done that interview. Not only was it in poor taste and hurtful to those closest to her, but the interview itself was a disaster. Diana came across seeming like a crazy person!

On the contrary, that interview was a blazing success in regard of her campaign to sell her 'Poor Diana' image. With time, and with what we now know of her personality and of the consequences this interview had on her life, it IS a disaster, but at the time, she had the most positive coverage, which was the aim.

ysbel 12-06-2005 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idriel
On the contrary, that interview was a blazing success in regard of her campaign to sell her 'Poor Diana' image. With time, and with what we now know of her personality and of the consequences this interview had on her life, it IS a disaster, but at the time, she had the most positive coverage, which was the aim.

Interesting that you say that, Idriel.

Andrew Morton, who I don't necessarily believe all the time, said that Diana was not unusually conniving - not because she was too honest to be cunning but because she never thought too far in advance.

He said her attitude at the time of the book was that her life was so horrible, things could not get worse and she had to do something, so she wanted the book published. Again with the interview, she wanted people to understand and sympathize with her hurt and she succeeded wildly but that apparently was as far as her thought processes went.

She apparently didn't think of the implications of some of her statements in the interview. When talking about James Hewitt, she mentioned that after Hewitt's book came out, William brought a box of chocolates to her and said, "Mummy, I think you've been hurt"

At that time, William was a teenager at Eton, an all boys British boarding school and undoubtedly the other boys must have teased him mercilessly about giving chocolate to his Mummy. Yet ironically Diana and Charles had insisted that their children go to Eton and not to Gordonstoun because Charles had been bullied so much by other boys at Gordonstoun.

So she was apparently concerned with other boys bullying her sons in school, but she apparently forgot that when she shared with the world her story about William giving chocolates to Mummy.

That's just one example but there are several.

Idriel 12-06-2005 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ysbel
Andrew Morton, who I don't necessarily believe all the time, said that Diana was not unusually conniving - not because she was too honest to be cunning but because she never thought too far in advance.

Yes I totally agree with that statement.
I think her lack her foresee was due to inexperience during her youth, then to the very complicated life she lead afterward. She had to much things going on to really have time to sit calmly and think about the consequences of her acts.
He main problem was that she needed the drama, and if it would not create by itself, she would provoke it and thus get involve with people and in situations she would later regret (those holidays with Dodi -the most boring man on earth by all accounts- are a classic example).

CasiraghiTrio 12-06-2005 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idriel
On the contrary, that interview was a blazing success in regard of her campaign to sell her 'Poor Diana' image. With time, and with what we now know of her personality and of the consequences this interview had on her life, it IS a disaster, but at the time, she had the most positive coverage, which was the aim.

How different was my reaction at the time from yours! I watched it when it was live. I remember exactly where I was, in New York at some friends' apartment for holidays, don't remember the exact timeframe, Thanksgiving? and I remember thinking she seemed like she was sedated or on some other drugs!

ysbel 12-06-2005 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
How different was my reaction at the time from yours! I watched it when it was live. I remember exactly where I was, in New York at some friends' apartment for holidays, don't remember the exact timeframe, Thanksgiving? and I remember thinking she seemed like she was sedated or on some other drugs!

I think what Idriel meant was that the interview was very successful at selling the 'poor Diana' image with the media and with the general public.

I had mixed reactions from it. It seemed rehearsed. I expected more spontaneity from Diana. I was surprised that she denied any compatibility issues between herself and Charles and I was dumbstruck when she mentioned William bringing her the chocolates. I couldn't believe that as concerned as she was with sheltering her sons from too much publicity that she would divulge a mother-son confidence.

If she had acknowledged the compatibility issues though, it may have lessened the sympathy that she gained from the media and the public. Or maybe she just didn't see them herself.

corazon 12-06-2005 07:14 PM

the interview was a bad idea, I dont know why exactly she do it, may she was desesperate, Diana look ''to the defensive'', was a interview .......mmmmm......rare for my. Diana said ''her'' true, charles have a interview similar in 1994 but diana was more...crude

CasiraghiTrio 12-06-2005 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ysbel
I think what Idriel meant was that the interview was very successful at selling the 'poor Diana' image with the media and with the general public.

I had mixed reactions from it. It seemed rehearsed. I expected more spontaneity from Diana. I was surprised that she denied any compatibility issues between herself and Charles and I was dumbstruck when she mentioned William bringing her the chocolates. I couldn't believe that as concerned as she was with sheltering her sons from too much publicity that she would divulge a mother-son confidence.

If she had acknowledged the compatibility issues though, it may have lessened the sympathy that she gained from the media and the public. Or maybe she just didn't see them herself.

I just remember feeling embarrassed for her. I do not think she was a druggie but she just seemed so out of it the entire interview. I don't think it was good judgement. It may have impressed the Diana-is-a-goddess people, adding to her "poor Diana" image, but it made her look very strange to me. If a member of the royal family (as she still was at that time; she wasn't divorced yet, I don't think?) is going to do a TV interview, I think they need to find the time and luxury to work out everything and do it right. And doing it with Martin Bashir on Panorama? No. It should be done more like Charles did it, with a biographer selected by the Palace Guard, someone you trust completely.

WillowDawn 12-07-2005 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princejonnhy25
I thought she was manipulative and vindictive. A bit of a brat. She needed attention and knew how to work the people. She did do a lot of help even if there were alterior motives though. She was a bit of a nut job. She did think she could heal people and that God talked to her. I think she lived in her own imaginary world sometimes. Anyway, if she wastn so keen on getting back at people who "hurt" her and didnt try tactics to get the people on her side I would like her a lot more. She still did a lot of good work though and I admire her for that.

I think this is my feelings as well.


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