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Josefine 09-14-2003 06:00 AM

Last Hours, Death, Transfer from France, Funeral and Interment
 
post them here

Martine 09-14-2003 07:40 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Princess Diana's funeral

https://pro.corbis.com

Martine 09-14-2003 07:41 AM

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Princess Diana's funeral

https://pro.corbis.com

Martine 09-14-2003 07:52 AM

10 Attachment(s)
Princess Diana's funeral

1-9. https://pro.corbis.com


10. https://www.topfoto.co.uk

Josefine 09-17-2003 04:47 PM

2 Attachment(s)
From Polfoto

Martine 09-18-2003 12:31 PM

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TopFoto - The Finest Picture Libraries In The World

2.Luciano Pavarotti

3.Sting

4.Cliff Richard

5.Ruby Wax

6.King Constantine of Greece

10.Karl Lagerfeld

Martine 09-18-2003 12:43 PM

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TopFoto - The Finest Picture Libraries In The World

2.Nicole Kidman

3.George Michael

5.Steven Spielberg

10.Tom Hanks

Martine 09-18-2003 12:54 PM

10 Attachment(s)
TopFoto - The Finest Picture Libraries In The World

7. Mohamed Fayed

Martine 09-18-2003 01:06 PM

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https://www.topfoto.co.uk

Martine 09-18-2003 01:17 PM

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https://www.topfoto.co.uk

Josefine 09-26-2003 04:24 PM

Elton Johns song here.....

Josefine 10-15-2003 08:34 AM

was any of you there at the funeral day

maryshawn 05-31-2004 11:37 PM

Princess Diana Laid To Rest
 
This is not meant to be a gruesome topic but I just read some friends of Diana's asked for certain items to be placed in her coffin--letters, personal memorabilia and the like. One was Lucia Flecha de Lima, the Princess' closest friend. The family said "no" but the butler managed to work with the funeral director to get them in the casket before it was closed.

I read her sons placed mementos in there....and I can fully understand that as I did the same with my dad recently. But did the Mother Teresa rosary stay with her? What about her wedding band and the infamous diamond engagement ring? What happened to them?

I feel Diana's family showed enormous pettiness, given the fact she hadn't been speaking to most of them. The way they dispersed gifts to godchildren was equally appalling--some bits of china for Rosa Monckton's daughter. Diana had wanted to leave them something far better, including money.

Even Prince William expressed his views they descended like vultures and tried to put his foot down on the fact they took dresses and items for her "museum." I believe her sons should've made the decisions on dispursement, not her not very supportive during her life sisters, brother and mother.

wymanda 05-31-2004 11:41 PM

I don't know about her wedding ring but I believe that the engagement ring went to Harry.

It's a shame that whatever went into her casket Diana still does not have peace - The public will not let her rest in peace.

sara1981 05-31-2004 11:48 PM

I think little disagree!

her famous sapphire engagement when she got married to Prince Charles in 1981 i think maybe kept at Buckingham Palace or Harry?

her famous dresses at Althorp and Kensington Palace for dresses display her brother owner at Althorp!

before she died she gives credit to Prince William on christies in June 1997 at New York and London, England because Diana needs new dresses than frock famous dresses.

she bury in Island near the water where tomb she been buried.

Sara Boyce

royal_sophietje 06-01-2004 05:24 AM

Dear MaryShawn

Diana is buried with the Mother Teresa rosary and her weddingband. Paul Burrell placed it in her hands when he prepared her for the coffin.
Her engagement ring is now property of William. When he will get engaged his future wife will wear this ring.
I read somewhere that a beautiful portrait of Diana and a portrait of her sons went in the coffin.

maryshawn 06-05-2004 05:18 PM

I thank all of you for all of your thoughts and information. Now, I feel bad saying Diana's family was petty--given the death of her mother.....I hope she rests in peace as her life was no picnic either.

Mary Shawn

Le Chat Noir 06-21-2004 03:12 AM

< ed >
I read somewhere the royal standard flag was ripped from Princess Diana's coffin and replaced with the Spencer flag during the final ceremony. Is it true? Just wondering. I don't know much about Princess Diana and the British Royalty. I don't really pay attention to them that much.

wymanda 06-21-2004 03:20 AM

I heard that too, Black Cat. Again it shows the thorough crassness of Earl Spencer. :angry: :angry: :angry:

Jean 06-21-2004 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wymanda@May 31st, 2004 - 10:41 pm
I don&#39;t know about her wedding ring but I believe that the engagement ring went to Harry.

It&#39;s a shame that whatever went into her casket Diana still does not have peace - The public will not let her rest in peace.

Which one is her wedding ring? The big blue one? Or is that her engagement ring?

:blush:

MoonlightRhapsody 06-21-2004 01:25 PM

The sapphire is her engagement ring...I think she just had a plain gold band as her wedding ring.

tiaraprin 06-21-2004 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moonlightrhapsody@Jun 21st, 2004 - 12:25 pm
The sapphire is her engagement ring...I think she just had a plain gold band as her wedding ring.
Diana&#39;s wedding band was made from a piece of Clogau gold from Wales that made the Queen Mother&#39;s, the Queen&#39;s, Princess Margaret&#39;s, and Princess Anne&#39;s wedding bands. A new piece was given before Andrew&#39;s marriage to Sarah and her band is from this piece and Sophie&#39;s too I would imagine.

ChantalC 06-23-2004 05:18 PM

[COLOR=purple] I read a book called "The Day Diana died" 6 years ago and it said that in her coffin, she had Mother Teresa rosary and pictures of her father and her two sons, Princes William and Harry in her hands. Prince William kept his mother&#39;s engagement ring. Also, She wore the black coatdress that she never wore before in the coffin and she told Prince Charles one time that when she died, she wanted to wear the gold earrings and she wears it in the coffin. That&#39;s what I read in the book.

maryshawn 06-25-2004 12:49 AM

I heard or read that too&#33; That she had a favorite pair of gold earrings she was wearing the night she died and Charles had a fit (on her behalf) as only one was found; the other was later found in the car. He said she never left the house w/o her earrings and he insisted they be found. Some might find that a silly token gesture but I thought it was a very kind, thoughtful thing to do. I had heard recently about the sapphire ring and also heard her simple gold band was on her hand--again, a gesture Charles insisted on. Her favorite designer, Catherine Walker, contributed a black dress Diana had purchased but never picked up. I assume the one borrowed from the Ambassador&#39;s wife and her shoes were either returned or destroyed.

I hope she finally is at peace but I really, really miss her.....and all that might have been.......

I am back to my original position that her blood family--particularly Lord Spencer--are a pack of vultures. Removing the royal standard.....opening up a museum (against William&#39;s wishes), after all his fussing while she was alive about how she couldn&#39;t have a simple cottage on the estate as "it would cause too much commotion." He rode her coattails to get a job on NBC. And now he is doing the same--making money off of her death--not for her Foundation--but for his own comfort and convenience. It&#39;s sickening. He wanted peace and quiet, fine, don&#39;t open a museum and invite crowds in......I bet he has a gift shop in there with mementos and replicas and postcards.....I find it appalling&#33;

Let her rest in peace.

liv 07-30-2005 07:23 AM

Th funeral was almost 8years ago but when I look at this pictures I still feel very moved.I think it was nice that also Fergie was there.

Was Sophie there with the Queen when the coffin passed by at Buckingham Palace I thought I saw her..

iowabelle 08-01-2005 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liv
Was Sophie there with the Queen when the coffin passed by at Buckingham Palace I thought I saw her..

Sophie didn't stand outside Buckingham Palace with the rest of the family. Of course, at the time she wasn't married to Edward yet.

The story I heard was that, because of Sophie's vague resemblance to Diana, it was thought that her presence would be confusing to some people (I guess some people might have thought it was Diana standing there, although Diana was quite a bit taller than Sophie so I don't know how that confusion could really arise).

liv 08-01-2005 01:38 PM

But then sombody similar to Sophie was standing outside.I know they weren´t married, but they were unofficially engaged since 1994. So I thought it could be possible...

Reina 08-01-2005 03:13 PM

This is so sad. I watched the funeral adn the music was so beautiful. Looking at pics of the RF they all look so sad. I hope they were all truly sad. I wonder what they were thinking. It was nice to see Sarah there. She looked very pretty. I wonder was she allowed to be with the RF all day.

branchg 08-01-2005 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reina
This is so sad. I watched the funeral adn the music was so beautiful. Looking at pics of the RF they all look so sad. I hope they were all truly sad. I wonder what they were thinking. It was nice to see Sarah there. She looked very pretty. I wonder was she allowed to be with the RF all day.

Well, according to Sarah, Duchess of York, who is certainly not crazy about her former in-laws, the entire royal family was "shattered" by her death. If nothing else, I'm sure they were all grieving the loss of someone who they all knew and cared about, if not loved, not to mention the pain they felt for William and Harry.

runaway princess 08-01-2005 07:11 PM

Facts
 
Elton John's song @ Diana's funeral was actually talking about Marylin Minroe...that's why from one of the lyrics of the song...says that he was just young when he knew her!!!!...When I look at those pictures I've noticed that Harry was pretty small for a 14 year old kid (I think that was how old he was?)....but he pretty much caught up at Wils' height now!!!And the thing that made me sad about Di's funeral was when I remember that Harry wrote a letter to his mom and it was on top of the coffin...that was really sad!:(

james 08-05-2005 12:34 PM

The person you think was Sophie was Serena Linley.

Lovelydiana 07-02-2006 08:36 PM

I heard that Diana had worn that too. I think I read it in A Royal Duty by Paul Burrell or something.

sassie 07-02-2006 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lovelydiana
I heard that Diana had worn that too. I think I read it in A Royal Duty by Paul Burrell or something.

Paul Burrell said that she was buried "with a few simple rings". Whether that included her wedding band is anyone's guess.

It's unclear what happened to her engagement ring. I am sure it is being kept for her sons, because that would seem most likely, but her will did not itemize jewelry or possessions. Whether William or Harry specifically received it is unknown to anyone but them, really.

sassie 07-02-2006 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Chat Noir

I read somewhere the royal standard flag was ripped from Princess Diana's coffin and replaced with the Spencer flag during the final ceremony. Is it true? Just wondering. I don't know much about Princess Diana and the British Royalty. I don't really pay attention to them that much.

Again, according to Paul Burrell, the only non-family member at the graveside service, Earl Spencer removed the royal standard from Diana's casket upon her arrival at Althorp prior to her burial and replaced it with the Spencer flag.

Whether that is true or not is unknown, since Burrell is the only witness to have said so, and he does have somewhat of an axe to grind with the Spencers. Unless someone else who was there comes forward to affirm or deny his statement, we can't be sure how accurate it is.

naida 07-09-2006 12:04 AM

Princess Diana Island and Statue
 
https://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_disp.asp?n_id=23668&n_tit=Karjat%3A+NRI+Dr+Arjun+Gaur+Creates+Princess+Diana+Island

Quote:

"Humanitarian work played a crucial role in the Princess' life, both at home and abroad. Her overseas missions to Angola, Bosnia, Pakistan and India struck a chord with me." The marble statue of Princess Diana is handcrafted by traditional artisans in Jaipur painstakingly over a period of one year. "I want to leave no stone unturned in my tribute to Princess Diana," says Dr Gaur.


https://www.cambridgeindia.com/

https://img90.imageshack.us/img90/661...statue13xe.gif

ClassicRoyal 07-09-2006 01:46 PM

Althorp was already opened to the public before Princess Diana's death. I visited Althorp on my honeymoon in the summer of 2000. The museum was very tasteful and the gift shop was modest. Her wedding gown was a wondrous sight to see and there were several recognizable dresses on display as well. I met Earl Spencer there and he was very nice. He signed several of the books I bought and posed for pictures. He was a gracious host. The house was such a treat to visit and felt much like a home. There were pictures of Diana and her sons on the grand piano, portraits of the family through the years hanging in the salon. I remembered the stories Diana would tell about them sitting on the steps at Christmas time. There were games under the table in a family living area. We were told that the twins birthday had just occured and Mrs. Shand-Kidd had been there to visit. Walking outside I saw the wall where Diana had stood with her ballet slippers on and it was a special moment to visualize the memory. Touring the Round Oval was quiet and very respectful. This was no tourist trap. Diana's memory can be savored here, after all this is where she grew up. Northamptonshire is a lovely area, much like the countrysides here in Virginia. It is a trip that will forever live in my memory and I plan to return there again in the future.

sassie 07-09-2006 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryshawn
Her favorite designer, Catherine Walker, contributed a black dress Diana had purchased but never picked up.

Actually, Catherine Walker wrote in her autobiography that the dress Diana was buried in was one Catherine selected. It was not one that Diana had ever seen, but, rather, one that Catherine felt Diana would have liked. There were two gowns that Catherine had waiting for Diana to pick up, but that particular dress wasn't one of them. Walker has always kept the details of the dress she donated private.

Lady Jean 07-09-2006 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClassicRoyal
It is a trip that will forever live in my memory and I plan to return there again in the future.

Thank you very much for sharing your experience.

Elspeth 07-09-2006 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sassie
Actually, Catherine Walker wrote in her autobiography that the dress Diana was buried in was one Catherine selected. It was not one that Diana had ever seen, but, rather, one that Catherine felt Diana would have liked. There were two gowns that Catherine had waiting for Diana to pick up, but that particular dress wasn't one of them. Walker has always kept the details of the dress she donated private.

Paul Burrell also claimed to have picked the dress she was buried in. Mind you, he claimed to have picked the Christina Stambolian dress she wore to the Serpentine Gallery, which proved to be such a front-page sensation. People do like to rewrite history!

sassie 07-09-2006 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspeth
Paul Burrell also claimed to have picked the dress she was buried in. Mind you, he claimed to have picked the Christina Stambolian dress she wore to the Serpentine Gallery, which proved to be such a front-page sensation. People do like to rewrite history!

I thought he meant that he selected the dress that Mrs. Jay donated for the Princess to wear temporarily. That is what his book says, or, at least, that he and Mrs. Jay went through her wardrobe and selected it together. Did he claim to have been the one who selected the Walker dress somewhere else?

Elspeth 07-15-2006 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sassie
I thought he meant that he selected the dress that Mrs. Jay donated for the Princess to wear temporarily. That is what his book says, or, at least, that he and Mrs. Jay went through her wardrobe and selected it together. Did he claim to have been the one who selected the Walker dress somewhere else?

Actually I don't recall without going to find the book and looking it up. I know he said he'd asked the Ambassador's wife for a dress Diana could wear in the meantime, which struck me as strange that he didn't think to take one out with him from England but felt it was OK for her to wear a borrowed dress - good thing Mrs Jay was approximately the same size as Diana!

But when I read about the Catherine Walker dress she was buried in, I remember thinking that something about it didn't agree with either Paul Burrell's account of things or someone else's.

sassie 07-15-2006 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspeth
Actually I don't recall without going to find the book and looking it up. I know he said he'd asked the Ambassador's wife for a dress Diana could wear in the meantime, which struck me as strange that he didn't think to take one out with him from England but felt it was OK for her to wear a borrowed dress - good thing Mrs Jay was approximately the same size as Diana!

But when I read about the Catherine Walker dress she was buried in, I remember thinking that something about it didn't agree with either Paul Burrell's account of things or someone else's.

I'd take Catherine Walker's account over Paul Burrell's. She, I think, is motivated by truth rather than self-importance. :)

sara1981 07-16-2006 12:06 AM

when Diana dies and her personal butler bring her favourites clothings from Catherine Walker for burial but i think Paul Burrell wanted bring for her and i dont think Wills and Harry tell him what kind clothes for mother's clothing designer and royals brothers felt betrayal at his own mother's butler.

juliana 05-02-2007 09:26 AM

OK this is an old question but one that I have never had an answer to. When the funeral was being broadcast Barbara Walters described the 3 floral arrangements on Diana's casket/coffin as being from her 2 sons and the Spencer family. The "Diana" rose arrangement became famous because of the envelope with the name "Mummy" written on it and it was supposedly form the boys but Barbara said that was from Harry and the tulip arrangement at the top of the casket had a special meaning and was from Will. (The middle arrangement was the Spencer's). Does anyone remember what the special meaning this arrangement had and if it actually was from Will or was the "Mummy" arrangement the only one from the boys? Have never seen any article about the floral arrangements but hope that someone here might have heard who they were from. The flowers from the royals by the way- the Queen and Prince of Wales- were displayed next to the casket inside the cathedral, so not them either.

Hendrik-Jan77 10-21-2007 02:29 PM

I read somewhere that the Princess of Wales has been buried in a leaden coffin so it will always remain intact.
I've got the feeling this was a well considered choise because in this way there will always be the option to rebury her somewhere else.
One day, when the present Earl Spencer dies, the estate will be taken over by one of his sons. And it has to be seen if they like the idea of having an aunt buried in their backyard.
I also have the feeling that Prince William one day will, apart from restoring Diana's HRH title, also rebury her at Frogmore. In my opinion the proper restingplace for the mother of a future king.

sirhon11234 11-02-2007 05:17 PM

What exactly is a leaden coffin.

BeatrixFan 11-02-2007 05:35 PM

Well, if someone wants to preserve a body perfectly then they're interred in a coffin that is lined with lead. It's almost unheard of today except in the Vatican arena where Popes are always buried within a lead coffin so that when they're exhumed in their cause for Sainthood their body can be examined for signs of corruption.

sirhon11234 11-02-2007 06:08 PM

So its possible that the Princess of Wales' body is still intact after 10 years.
I wouldn't be surprised if Wills and Harry exhume and bury her elsewhere.

BeatrixFan 11-02-2007 06:16 PM

Well, if she was interred in a lead-lined coffin and embalmed then yes, she'll be preserved. However, the body's state doesn't really affect re-location. It's just the coffin that needs to be in some decent order and even if that's decayed, the bones etc can be put into a new coffin before reburial.

sirhon11234 11-02-2007 06:26 PM

So is every deceased member of the royal family buried in a lead-lined coffin?

BeatrixFan 11-02-2007 06:29 PM

Not that I know of. It isn't customary but it could be arranged by special request. Every Pope is but I'm not sure about Royals. I'd say no because of the risk of desecration but I've never opened the lid of a Royal coffin!

iowabelle 11-05-2007 03:30 PM

I heard it was a lead coffin too, which accounts for the weight that the Welsh Guards struggled with as they carried her. I also heard that there was a glass window so her face was visible (that sounds a little gross to me so...).

Skydragon 11-05-2007 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iowabelle (Post 689067)
I also heard that there was a glass window so her face was visible (that sounds a little gross to me so...).

That was only in the coffin used to bring her through customs in France, many countries insist on opening the lid! :flowers:

BeatrixFan 11-05-2007 04:03 PM

I must say I was suprised it wasn't a glass coffin entirely.

GillW 11-05-2007 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iowabelle (Post 689067)
I heard it was a lead coffin too, which accounts for the weight that the Welsh Guards struggled with as they carried her. I also heard that there was a glass window so her face was visible (that sounds a little gross to me so...).

My friends' nephew (as I've said here before) was one of the (Welsh Guards) pall-bearers of Diana's coffin at the Abbey. I can tell you absolutely for certain that it WAS lead-lined and there was no window in the lid.
:flowers:

BeatrixFan 11-05-2007 04:07 PM

Maybe the lead-lined was chosen with foresight in case of possible exhumation for an inquest/investigation.

GillW 11-05-2007 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skydragon (Post 689069)
That was only in the coffin used to bring her through customs in France, many countries insist on opening the lid! :flowers:

Customs do not normally check things on the way OUT of a country.

Remember this was a private flight not a public, scheduled nor even a holiday charter flight, so normal rules simply did not apply. I'm pretty sure that there was film footage at the time of the car arriving at the airport from the Hospital, the coffin being taken out & put on board and the flight leaving almost at once. On arrival in Britain it came to RAF Northolt and the coffin was then transferred to St James's Palace, London.

BeatrixFan 11-05-2007 04:30 PM

Bodies are a little different. The deceased has to be identified before being allowed out or wanted criminals could easily be smuggled out.

TheTruth 11-05-2007 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 689085)
Maybe the lead-lined was chosen with foresight in case of possible exhumation for an inquest/investigation.

Lol, you might be right BeatrixFan ! Nowadays, you never know what people are capable to think of. For me, I see the choice of the lead-lined as a symbol of "beauty and youth" preservation. Diana died at 36 when she was almost seen like unreal, perhaps a saint (parallel to the Pope's coffin, maybe ...). Honestly, when I hear about her, I can't imagine her aging. Sounds weird but she died when I was only 6 and I'm really not able to imagine how would she look like today.

BeatrixFan 11-05-2007 05:04 PM

Well the Pope's coffin isn't intended to be a sainthood thing - quite the opposite actually. It's considered a common burial and the lead is to ensure that his body doesn't decompose in the normal way. For example, when Pope John Paul II moves to the next stage of canonisation, they'll exhume his coffin, open the lid and if he's decomposed then his remains will be considered corrupt. If they arent then it'll be taken as a sign of sanctity ensuring his almost automatic sainthood. As I understand it. In a similar way, were Diana to be exhumed today then her body probably would be in the same state it was when it was embalmed in 1997.

sirhon11234 11-05-2007 05:14 PM

Wow thats amazing.

BeatrixFan 11-05-2007 05:23 PM

Well it's an easy experiment to do actually. If you put a square of milk chocolate in a box with holes in the lid and check on it in a few months, it'll have gone white and stale. If you do the same in an airtight box, the chocolate will stay the same and will still be edible. It's the lead that serves this effect on a corpse. Without the lead, heat inside the coffin begins to decay the body, the wood decomposes and then the elements can get to the body which begins to decompose quite quickly. The lead keeps the body cool and suspends natural decomposition - hence perfectly preserved corpses which can then be passed off as 'incorrupt' or 'saintly'.

Skydragon 11-05-2007 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GillW (Post 689086)
Customs do not normally check things on the way OUT of a country.

I can assure you, from experience, that any box or coffin containing a corpse being flown back to Britain is opened before it is put on any RAF, ordinary or chartered plane, royal or not. It is checked by customs before it is loaded. The glass window was allowed for Diana, for some unknown reason.

Every country checks your baggage and person when leaving the country, a box/coffin is no different.

BeatrixFan 11-05-2007 05:40 PM

Well I guess it would have been considered disrespectful to open the coffin at two customs points considering the public mood at the time and so the glass window allowed her to remain undisturbed whilst at the same time being practical.

Skydragon 11-05-2007 05:52 PM

I must look suspicious, customs always checks my bags and person when I am checked in! :rofl:

BeatrixFan 11-05-2007 06:04 PM

Do you travel with a coffin though? :ghost:

Skydragon 11-05-2007 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 689149)
Do you travel with a coffin though? :ghost:

As little as possible! :flowers:

TheTruth 11-05-2007 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 689119)
Well it's an easy experiment to do actually. If you put a square of milk chocolate in a box with holes in the lid and check on it in a few months, it'll have gone white and stale. If you do the same in an airtight box, the chocolate will stay the same and will still be edible. It's the lead that serves this effect on a corpse. Without the lead, heat inside the coffin begins to decay the body, the wood decomposes and then the elements can get to the body which begins to decompose quite quickly. The lead keeps the body cool and suspends natural decomposition - hence perfectly preserved corpses which can then be passed off as 'incorrupt' or 'saintly'.

The comparison of Diana, the Pope and chocolate sounds like a surrealist painting lol.
It's indeed the cold that makes a body stay in state. Cryopreservation shows that very well (Cryopreservation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) although if you'd wished that you could reanimate Diana, there's no chance :
Quote:

"Human cryopreservation is not currently reversible"
(link => Cryonics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Moreover, her body wasn't prepared to such a possible experience. It should have been put at 77 K or −196 °C so as to preserve the cells, the brain and the whole blood system.

Skydragon 11-06-2007 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 689119)
Well it's an easy experiment to do actually. If you put a square of milk chocolate in a box with holes in the lid and check on it in a few months, it'll have gone white and stale. If you do the same in an airtight box, the chocolate will stay the same and will still be edible. It's the lead that serves this effect on a corpse. .

It is supposed that a combination of hermetic sealing and the action of lead compounds from the coffin itself cause the action of putrefaction to slow.

Another reason Diana was given a lead lined casket, was to ensure that should the Island flood, it would not be likely to rise up with flood water. The Oak will, I think have already started to come away from the lead.

Diana's coffin, apparently weighed 50 stone (700lbs), which sounds heavy but my BMW in full dress weighs 22 stone (308lbs).

GillW 11-06-2007 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skydragon (Post 689566)
It is supposed that a combination of hermetic sealing and the action of lead compounds from the coffin itself cause the action of putrefaction to slow.

Another reason Diana was given a lead lined casket, was to ensure that should the Island flood, it would not be likely to rise up with flood water. The Oak will, I think have already started to come away from the lead.

Diana's coffin, apparently weighed 50 stone (700lbs), which sounds heavy but my BMW in full dress weighs 22 stone (308lbs).

That island cannot flood and is not waterlogged. If that land was to flood then the whole of Althorp estate would be under water - in fact probably most of Northamptonshire too!

That is a false lake made from a concrete basin and the island is piled earth from that excavation heaped into the centre ring of the "basin" - think of a circular "jelly-mould" construction. This is a manufactured and carefully managed landscape feature, and not a natural soggy hollow with a lump in the middle - that's why its called The Round Oval.

If in doubt go to Google Earth & search for Althorp, Northampton - you can zoom in quite close & see that very clearly (besides which I have been several times, including before the previous Earl died, when the Oval was deserted and rather unkempt - but very lovely anyway) :flowers:

Skydragon 11-07-2007 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GillW (Post 689611)
That island cannot flood and is not waterlogged. If that land was to flood then the whole of Althorp estate would be under water - in fact probably most of Northamptonshire too!

I was aware that the island was a man made feature, but even they can get the drainage blocked. When people pile earth into any construction, concrete or not, it can get waterlogged and even trees can start to float, when burying Diana's casket, it would seem they took all possible precautions. :flowers: I specifically put 'should the island flood', knowing that it would be unlikely for the whole of Althorp and/or Northampton to flood and that the feature was just a concrete bowl, (which could deteriorate over the years).

Jo of Palatine 11-07-2007 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skydragon (Post 689739)
I was aware that the island was a man made feature, but even they can get the drainage blocked. When people pile earth into any construction, concrete or not, it can get waterlogged and even trees can start to float, when burying Diana's casket, it would seem they took all possible precautions. :flowers: I specifically put 'should the island flood', knowing that it would be unlikely for the whole of Althorp and/or Northampton to flood and that the feature was just a concrete bowl, (which could deteriorate over the years).

Such man-made lakes are quite common nowadays when they build motorways through areas where little creeks are. In case of flooding, these lakes are filled first and take all the water, so the streets are not flooded.

We just had such a lake build here in addition to the existing ones (the motorway runs along the northern shore of the Ammersee-lake and was put into a tunnel under our village green to protect the village from the noise). But because there is the lake and acreek coming from the mountains they had to build a new lake to offer even better protection for the tunnel and the village from flooding). I took the opportunity while walking my dog to talk to an engineer supervising the works there and asked him about the lake at Althorp.

He said that when there is an island in the lake, the problem with the water does not come not from the lake itself but from the ground water which cannot go up on the base of the lake due to the concrete sealing but is pressured to mount in the soil of the island. He said it depended on how wet the climate is there and how plain the area is around the gardens of Althorp. If there were heavy rains and Althorp was situated in a valley chances are that the island is flooded from below the ground, even though the rest of the gardens could stay relatively dry. He said that one could see that on looking at the vegetation of the gardens and compare it to the vegetation of the island.

If the island was very mossy instead of having grass on it or has trees that grow in rather wet soils then the island is endangered of being flooded. But even then you could bury somebody there on introducing a concrete foundation for the coffin instead of just lower it into the earth. But still it would be a wet place...

GillW 11-09-2007 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skydragon (Post 689739)
I was aware that the island was a man made feature, but even they can get the drainage blocked. When people pile earth into any construction, concrete or not, it can get waterlogged and even trees can start to float, when burying Diana's casket, it would seem they took all possible precautions. :flowers: I specifically put 'should the island flood', knowing that it would be unlikely for the whole of Althorp and/or Northampton to flood and that the feature was just a concrete bowl, (which could deteriorate over the years).

Can I just clarify a couple of points? :smile:

The Round Oval is very old and was not designed nor constructed purposely for the burial of Diana nor anyone else.

Quote from Althorp House Garden - a Gardens Guide review -

"The Round Oval, as the lake is known, was cleaned out and re-filled in 1868. The Summerhouse at the lakeside was bought in 1901 by John Poyntz, Fifth Earl Spencer for Charlotte Spencer who wished to have it erected in the pleasure grounds. The Summerhouse was moved to the south of the Round Oval in 1926 where it stands today, dedicated to the memory of Diana, Princess of Wales. Diana was buried on the island in the Round Oval in 1997 - it is a peculiarly appropriate spot and attracts large numbers of visitors"

It is quite hard to describe how it is constructed but please do not think of it as a simple saucer-type of bowl with a pile of soil in the centre. You have to imagine the kind of doughnut-shape-in-reverse (see this illustration: https://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...jellymould.jpg) the "island" in the centre is quite outside of the concrete structure, in exactly the same way as are the surrounding paths. I can't think of another way of describing it.

Because of this the trees etc are not planted into "earth piled into the construction" (pardon the paraphrase), but directly into the good solid Northamptonshire earth, and surrounded by a hoop-shaped pool. The type & size of trees which are there could not grow in the other circumstances.

The drainage for the water in the pool is an easily accessible grating at each of the ends and these are well maintained and cleaned so there is no build up of debris to cause any kind of blockage or overflowing onto the land area of the central island - which is actually a little higher than the surrounding pathways.

Hope this helps everyone visualise the construction and to understand that the earth where Diana lies is firm & dry just like the rest of the Althorp estate.
:flowers:

Jo of Palatine 11-09-2007 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GillW (Post 690651)
Can I just clarify a couple of points? :smile:


Hope this helps everyone visualise the construction and to understand that the earth where Diana lies is firm & dry just like the rest of the Althorp estate.
:flowers:

Thank you for the explanation. still, I think the point the engineer talked about is valid: once you seal of part of the surrounding soil with concrete, the rest of the "open" land attracts more ground water when it rises due to strong rainfalls. Thus, the island could potentially flood from within after strong rain but that's not the constant situation but only occassionally so - just like normal graveyards sometimes are "land under".

I accept that the idea with the isalnd was probably a good one in order to keep people from coming to close to Diana's grave, but still - the island was used to bury the dead pets of the Spencer's and now there is allegedly the grave of the mother of the future king? If they had erected a little chapel there with a crypt for Diana, I could believe in the story but the way it is it is suspicious for me. I for one wouldn't have buried my brother on such an island as if he was a pet of mine....

I still believe Diana's body was removed and replaced with stones or something else and then Earl Spencer took the Royal standart for her real grave and put his sister's body into another coffin or a case which could be used as such till it was possible to remove her from Althorp and bury her wherever. I'm convinced prince Charles and William and Harry were not informed but at a later point.

BeatrixFan 11-09-2007 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheTruth (Post 689168)
The comparison of Diana, the Pope and chocolate sounds like a surrealist painting lol.
It's indeed the cold that makes a body stay in state. Cryopreservation shows that very well (Cryopreservation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) although if you'd wished that you could reanimate Diana, there's no chance : (link => Cryonics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Moreover, her body wasn't prepared to such a possible experience. It should have been put at 77 K or −196 °C so as to preserve the cells, the brain and the whole blood system.

I thought that once you were dead that was it even with cryogenics. Don't you have to be frozen whilst alive so you can be defrosted later? If cryogenics don't work once you're dead then Walt Disney must be turning in his fridge.

PR Princess 11-09-2007 01:42 PM

I know she met some celebrities, but I was wondering did she meet all those celebrities who went to her funeral? The famous I know was Elton John who was her good friend.

PR Princess 11-09-2007 01:47 PM

That is so nice, I would like to go there. I didn't even know they made a tribute statue of her, and in India...now that speculation her memory will never live long in the future, is definitely false.

TheTruth 11-09-2007 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 690711)
I thought that once you were dead that was it even with cryogenics. Don't you have to be frozen whilst alive so you can be defrosted later? If cryogenics don't work once you're dead then Walt Disney must be turning in his fridge.

Lol. I think it would be possible to bring someone to life and, with the technology of the future, cure the wounds of a person who died in an accidental way like Diana. But I'm not doctor so it's just a guess ...

Christo's Girl 11-13-2007 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR Princess (Post 690720)
I know she met some celebrities, but I was wondering did she meet all those celebrities who went to her funeral? The famous I know was Elton John who was her good friend.

That is one question I too have still today. For instance, how well did she really know someone like Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman? I can't help thinking that if Diana had passed away in 2007 not 1997 the world would have seen a much different funeral. The boys would have known who to invite and who not too. Her resting place may have been different as well.

Do you think if the William and Harry ever requested that her remains be moved to the family crypt or somewhere else he would comply?

sirhon11234 11-13-2007 04:26 PM

Spencer would have to she is their mother.

BeatrixFan 11-13-2007 04:42 PM

It depends on the executors of her estate I believe.

Skydragon 11-13-2007 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR Princess (Post 690722)
now that speculation her memory will never live long in the future, is definitely false.

That must be why so many children, youths and adults pass the statues in London and have no idea who they are of. It is sad, but that's life.
Quote:

Do you think if the William and Harry ever requested that her remains be moved to the family crypt or somewhere else he would comply?
I think it unlikely that any of them would want to disturb her final 'resting place'. By the time William is old enough to have any say in digging up and then burying the body anywhere else, I would think they will have accepted that her corpse is better left at rest in the artificial island.

It would not just be a case of them deciding to dig up and relocate the body, they would have to apply for permission from the authorities and in 20 -30 years who knows whether the government would approve.

BeatrixFan 11-13-2007 05:18 PM

She isn't buried in the ground though is she? I thought she was in a tomb thing.

sirhon11234 11-13-2007 06:21 PM

I thought Diana was buried in the ground.

Russophile 11-13-2007 08:07 PM

I think the idea was that they (Earl Spencer) didn't WANT you to know whether she was in a tomb or ground.

Skydragon 11-14-2007 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 692691)
She isn't buried in the ground though is she? I thought she was in a tomb thing.

From what I remember reading, at the time, there was not time to line the grave with concrete, but they were making a lining of brick, (available for extra even in public cemetarys) or granite/marble, (again available in public cemetarys).

It is still a below ground grave and to remove the corpse or casket, they would have to apply to the Home Office, therefore it would be reliant on how the government of the day feels. :flowers:

Once Harry reaches 25, the executors of her estate have no further input into any decisions, they are only there to facilitate her orders with regard to distribution of her money and property. Had she specifically asked to be cremated, they and the family were under no obligation to follow her wishes, the same way that they decided to give her godchildren gifts, rather than money! :eek: When writing a will it pays to be absolutely specific about what you want to leave and in what form.

Skydragon 11-14-2007 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine (Post 690698)
Thank you for the explanation. still, I think the point the engineer talked about is valid: once you seal of part off the surrounding soil with concrete, the rest of the "open" land attracts more ground water when it rises due to strong rainfalls. Thus, the island could potentially flood from within after strong rain but that's not the constant situation but only occassionally so - just like normal graveyards sometimes are "land under".

Absolutely right Jo. :flowers: The explantion given also does not cover the points that anyone with a knowledge of the concepts behind landscaping would know, namely that any concrete structure is 1. Reliant on the substrate. 2. The Rebar. 3. Oxidisation
If the Rebar becomes oxidised, it starts to expand, (this has been a problem with many artificial lakes or islands). 4. Those naughty tree roots that have a habit of destroying many man made structures.

When burying Diana, they had to look at all and any possibilities, one of which would have included, IMO, the possibility of a rare occurence, such as excessive water being unable to drain or soak away!

Princess B 04-17-2008 10:44 AM

does anyone have a list of people who attended the funeral?

TheTruth 04-17-2008 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess B (Post 754907)
does anyone have a list of people who attended the funeral?

From this website, here's a few people who attended the funeral :

Quote:

Lady Hillary Clinton, British Prime Minister Tony Blair, former premiers, including John Major and Margaret Thatcher, have been invited -- as has a New Jersey couple who once hired Diana as a babysitter in London for their 1-year-old son before she entered the royal spotlight, New York's WCBS radio reports. Elton John, a close friend of the princess's, plans to be at the service but denied reports he had been invited to sing, saying that decision was still "up in the air."

Of course, we can add her former lover Hasnat Khan, Luciano Pavarotti and his wife, Tom Cruise, Nicole Kidman, Steven Spielberg, Tom Hanks, ... .

GillW 04-17-2008 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess B (Post 754907)
does anyone have a list of people who attended the funeral?

Do you mean everyone at the funeral service in London, or just those at the graveside burial at Althorp?

:ermm:

pinkie40 04-18-2008 09:12 PM

Paul Burrell who attended the burial ceremony on the island himself hints at in his book "Royal Duty" that Diana could have been buried elsewhere at a later time. I do remember Earl Spencer going out the next day in a row boat to scatter the petals of the flowers left at the gates of Althorp.

My thoughts are on the same wavelength as Paul's...I believe she was allowed to rest in an earthy grave for a bit and then dug up and cremated to be buried in the Spencer vault with her father and multiple generations of her family. .

I do think that somewhat twisted brother of hers also stated he put metal plates at different points in the island should grave robbers somehow gain access to the island and try to find a coffin with a metal detector.

Mermaid1962 04-18-2008 09:19 PM

Given the possibility of people looking for "trophies", I don't think that this is necessarily a strange idea.:flowers:

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkie40 (Post 755550)
I do think that somewhat twisted brother of hers also stated he put metal plates at different points in the island should grave robbers somehow gain access to the island and try to find a coffin with a metal detector.


pinkie40 04-18-2008 11:38 PM

Yes, there are ghouls out there. Some of the editorial cartoons in the days after her burial featured depictions of the paparazzi with a camera in one hand and a shovel in the other...That's why I hope she is with her father in the family vault.

sirhon11234 04-19-2008 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkie40 (Post 755550)
Paul Burrell who attended the burial ceremony on the island himself hints at in his book "Royal Duty" that Diana could have been buried elsewhere at a later time. I do remember Earl Spencer going out the next day in a row boat to scatter the petals of the flowers left at the gates of Althorp.

My thoughts are on the same wavelength as Paul's...I believe she was allowed to rest in an earthy grave for a bit and then dug up and cremated to be buried in the Spencer vault with her father and multiple generations of her family. .

I do think that somewhat twisted brother of hers also stated he put metal plates at different points in the island should grave robbers somehow gain access to the island and try to find a coffin with a metal detector.

If what you are saying is true, then Spencer has been cheating people out of their money when they paid to see the island where his sister is buried.
Then that makes him nothing but a dog.

Jo of Palatine 04-19-2008 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirhon11234 (Post 755592)
If what you are saying is true, then Spencer has been cheating people out of their money when they paid to see the island where his sister is buried.
Then that makes him nothing but a dog.

I doubt anyone goes there only to see her grave. Ther eis so much more to see and that alone should be worth the money.

Skydragon 04-19-2008 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkie40 (Post 755550)
Paul Burrell who attended the burial ceremony on the island himself hints at in his book "Royal Duty" that Diana could have been buried elsewhere at a later time.

Would this be comparable to his 'secrets' at the inquest, Later proved to be known to everyone or the 'Red Herrings' he claimed to have laid?:whistling:

Charlotte1 04-20-2008 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirhon11234 (Post 755592)
If what you are saying is true, then Spencer has been cheating people out of their money when they paid to see the island where his sister is buried.
Then that makes him nothing but a dog.

Earl Spencer doesn't charge people to see the island where his sister is buried! Althorp House has been open to the public and charging people to come and see it since the 1970's, it was Diana's father who first opened it up to the paying public. A very small percentage of people who go to Althorp go there because of the Diana connection, and its official website reflects this, there are no pictures of Diana on its Homepage and just one link to the Diana exhibition. There are several pages of the various events, Literary Festival, Concerts, Garden show, fundraisers for cancer research and Christmas Fair. Plus pages on various famous Spencers through history ( Diana not included)
The Estate also hosts corporate events and that's what they make money on, not the dwindling number of people who want to visit the Diana exhibition. ( It looses money so that's why it now travels, it's been in Sydney for the past few months)

TheTruth 04-23-2008 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkie40 (Post 755550)
Paul Burrell who attended the burial ceremony on the island himself hints at in his book "Royal Duty" that Diana could have been buried elsewhere at a later time. I do remember Earl Spencer going out the next day in a row boat to scatter the petals of the flowers left at the gates of Althorp.

My thoughts are on the same wavelength as Paul's...I believe she was allowed to rest in an earthy grave for a bit and then dug up and cremated to be buried in the Spencer vault with her father and multiple generations of her family. .

I do think that somewhat twisted brother of hers also stated he put metal plates at different points in the island should grave robbers somehow gain access to the island and try to find a coffin with a metal detector.

I think the security around her grave isn't too much. There are many weird people out there : fetishists and all the bunch of freaks.
Here's a screencap from Google Earth.
We can clearly see some obstacles around the island. I wonder how this sort of system can prevent a possible coffin robbery though.

tinkerbell1948 04-24-2008 12:06 AM

I went to Althorp House in 1982 when we were in England. We were in England when Prince William was christened. Of course then Diana's father was still alive and it was open for longer than it is now. The museum of her dresses wasn't there but there was a gift shop in I think the old stables or coachouse. A lot of the stuff was trinkety and rather trashy, including fake engagement rings with a big blue stone

Raine Spencer was accused of cashing in on Diana because of it I do remember going up the "main " staircase I suppose you could say and there was a gallery of family portraits of all past Spencers/wives/descendants etc and they were all rather sombre colours beige/brown/black and there in the middle was a much larger portrait of Raine in bright pink you couldn't miss it if you wanted too:lol:

Not saying anything against Raine it was just my perception at the time :flowers:

Somewhere I still have the brochure. We were not allowed to take any photos AT ALL not even outside I was going through my o/s album the other day and tried to remember why I had no photos of the grounds of Althorp and I'm sure that was the reason. Also it stated that the grounds/house could be closed at any time for security reasons and we could be "turfed out"......put much more politely than that of course

I remember Charles Spencer saying when Diana died that one of the reasons he buried her on the island was he didn't want her grave to be turned into a sideshow/pilgrimage/hordes of tourists etc and I'm inclined to agree with him there. It was a very difficult situation as she was no longer an HRH or married to Prince Charles therefore there was no obligation on the part of the RF to afford her a Royal burial

Then again Charles Spencer was so bitter at the time that I am sure that if the RF even approached him to offer a Royal burial as the mother of the future King he would have flatly refused

I think his speech at her funeral was rather ironic his scathing veiled attack on the RF , talking about her "blood family" when his own life and exploits have been rather scandalous and fodder for the gossip columns and I'm not really sure how much he sees of the boys at all .Of course they are now grown men, but Charles speech at the funeral indicated that the Spencers would be very much "hands on" in the rearing of the boys but I doubt there was very much at all

tinkerbell1948 04-24-2008 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine (Post 690698)
I accept that the idea with the isalnd was probably a good one in order to keep people from coming to close to Diana's grave, but still - the island was used to bury the dead pets of the Spencer's and now there is allegedly the grave of the mother of the future king? If they had erected a little chapel there with a crypt for Diana, I could believe in the story but the way it is it is suspicious for me. I for one wouldn't have buried my brother on such an island as if he was a pet of mine....

I still believe Diana's body was removed and replaced with stones or something else and then Earl Spencer took the Royal standart for her real grave and put his sister's body into another coffin or a case which could be used as such till it was possible to remove her from Althorp and bury her wherever. I'm convinced prince Charles and William and Harry were not informed but at a later point.

Yes I remember a friend of mine saying it creeped her out to think that Diana was buried in a pet's graveyard it reminded her of the Stephen King novel, "Pet Sematary"

What you say does make sense


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