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candygirl_68 04-07-2008 04:27 AM

i just think it would be quite strange, as the UK is quite conservative...

PrinceOfCanada 04-07-2008 09:54 AM

Quote:

This is an interesting thread. However, no one to my knowledge has mentioned the fact that in England, the monarch's coronation is a Christian one, with prayers made to Jesus, etc. etc. So, my question is this: how could an English king in good conscience, make the vows to God, Jesus, etc. during the coronation ceremony, while knowingly practicing something that is not condoned by Christianity?

What does everyone else think?

I think, with all due respect, you probably don't know much about Christianity. To deal with this in the simplest possible terms: at no point did Jesus condemn homosexuality. The strictures against homosexuality that are espoused by the Catholic church (as well as a multitude of fundamentalist denominations, and by conservative Christian religious elements in general) are actually found in Leviticus, which as anyone who attended Sunday School knows is part of the Torah (Old Testament in Christian terms). Jesus came as the fulfillment of the Law, and replaced the old Levite laws with the new ones. So, essentially, the Christian argument against homosexuality boils down to "It's icky and I don't like it" with a bunch of half-baked 'justification' that doesn't actually hold up under the light of either serious theological study or basic logic. Meaning: if the statement in Leviticus about 'shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind' is to be taken as true, then logically no Christian should eat pork or shellfish, wear mixed fibres, consult forecasters of weather, etc etc etc--there is a very, very long list of both prohibited behaviours and required behaviours found in Leviticus.

Moving on. Anglicanism is a subset of the family of religious belief known as Christianity. Once you get away from statements actually made by Jesus--as opposed to those from the Torah (let's not forget; Yeheshuah ben Miriam was addressed as 'rabbi') or those made by Paul (whose warped theology is largely responsible for the general misogyny of the RC church through the centuries)--what 'Christianity' does or does not approve of is based on interpretation, which differs from one sect to another, and even within them. Witness the current crisis in the worldwide Anglican Communion over ordination of gay bishops and so forth, for example.

So. Given that the Anglican Church does not condemn homosexuality in any sense, I fail to see how any putative homosexual Sovereign of the UK (& Commonwealth &c &c) could swear their oaths with anything but a clear conscience.

All of that being said, I agree; I doubt the UK is ready for an openly-gay monarch. Sad, but that's how it is. Happily, attitudes worldwide are changing.

And all of THAT being said.. If Frederick is gay, I'll be taking advantage of my UK citizenship to move there. He's quite a dish, and I can be quite a loyal subject..

Martha 04-07-2008 11:17 AM

I have read that Prince Waldemar of Denmark was homosexual. Because He had a relationship with his nephew Prince George of Greece.However, He got married to Marie of Orleans. The couple have many siblings: Margaret, Axel, Vigo.....

PrinceOfCanada 04-07-2008 04:10 PM

Y'know, come to think of it... I think that the British public would probably be more accepting of a lesbian Queen than a gay King. Going all the way back to Victoria's attitudes, there seems to be a lot less visceral distaste for lesbians than for gay men.

betina 04-07-2008 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martha (Post 750687)
I have read that Prince Waldemar of Denmark was homosexual. Because He had a relationship with his nephew Prince George of Greece.However, He got married to Marie of Orleans. The couple have many siblings: Margaret, Axel, Vigo.....

Where did you read that. I have never heard that story before. And a relationship with your own nephew??
He was acsolutely devastated when his wife died at early age, but maybe I am wrong.

Russophile 04-07-2008 08:04 PM

If they were gay, I wonder if they would artificially inseminate?? And whose would they use? Would they marry and use theirs to keep the blood lines?

Warren 04-13-2008 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betina (Post 750858)
Where did you read that. I have never heard that story before. And a relationship with your own nephew??
He was acsolutely devastated when his wife died at early age, but maybe I am wrong.

It is documented that Prince Waldemar of Denmark and Prince George of Greece had a relationship, eg "Northern Crowns" by John van der Kiste, 1996, paperback page 27.

PrinceOfCanada 04-13-2008 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russophile (Post 750935)
If they were gay, I wonder if they would artificially inseminate?? And whose would they use? Would they marry and use theirs to keep the blood lines?

In the case of the British royalty, they would be required to marry, as legitimate heirs must be born in wedlock.

candygirl_68 04-14-2008 03:05 PM

but what about another royal families?

Russophile 04-14-2008 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrinceOfCanada (Post 753154)
In the case of the British royalty, they would be required to marry, as legitimate heirs must be born in wedlock.

You know, that's one of those things where you want to know but you really don't want to know. . . .

PrinceOfCanada 04-22-2008 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russophile (Post 753484)
You know, that's one of those things where you want to know but you really don't want to know. . . .

I don't follow?


Oh, and I was thinking re: titles.. there is excellent precedent for a man to take the title of his husband; all spouses of men take their husband's title.

Russophile 04-22-2008 08:07 PM

What if both were high ranking? Would they give the title of the one they didn't use to their child instead?

PrinceOfCanada 04-22-2008 08:36 PM

Children of peers are already entitled to lesser titles of their parents, as a courtesy. However, almost all Letters Patent indicate that succession goes to 'heirs of the body'.. so the child would be able to take only the lesser title (and, later, the greater) of the biological parent.

Little_star 08-16-2008 11:09 AM

I recently came across this link which claims that Sultan Qaboos of Oman and King Mohammed VI of Morocco are gay. Does anybody else have anymore information about this? Thanks in advance.
DIRELAND: UNSPEAKABLE LOVE: Gay and Lesbian Life in the Middle East (Book Review)

Warren 08-16-2008 12:01 PM

The book in Little_star's interesting link above has been written by Brian Whittaker, the Middle East Bureau Chief of the respected UK newspaper The Guardian. Sultan Qaboos bin Said of Oman is the only Middle Eastern ruler who is named in the book as being gay, but the article suggests that Morocco's King Mohammed VI can be added. It states that the Belgian newspaper Le Soir "outed" the new King in an article coinciding with his accession to the throne in 1999 by making claims about his student life in Brussels. Algeria's President Bouteflika is also mentioned and the statement is made that knowledge of his homosexuality is "widespread" in his country. Unfortunately, the article does not provide much further detail and apart from naming the Sultan, Mr Whittaker's book doesn't appear to either.

Odette 08-16-2008 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by branchg (Post 309710)
Waldemar was in a lifetime relationship with his nephew, HRH Prince George of Greece and Denmark, son of the former Prince Wilhelm of Denmark who became King George I of the Hellenes. George married HIH Princess Marie Bonaparte, a very wealthy heiress who owned a large share of the casino in Monaco. She had affairs throughout their marriage as well.

Prince Michel of Greece wrote a book about Marie Bonaparte. She sounds like she was a very eccentric person.

Winnie 08-16-2008 03:41 PM

I personally don't believe that a King (let us just say William of the UK) being openly gay [or by-sexual] would be the end of the world. I also think that once over the "shock" of it all, people would just accept the fact. If the relationships were done with class and not "thrown in people's face with outlandish clothes and behavior" it might do a lot towards eliminating silly hatred. I would like to think that I was mature enough to accept people for what they are in their private lives -- just don't want to have anyone try and change me or flaunt their differences when there is no reason. Having said that, I doubt that we will ever see this happening in our lifetime.

Smilla 08-16-2008 03:46 PM

Since any monarchy is a lot about images and traditions, I doubt that things would be so easy. Sure, people would probably accept a gay monarch and make not a lot of fuss (what else could they do without seeming to be intolerant bigots?), but many of them would be disappointed (no pretty princess whose gowns you can gossip about for days on end etc.) and support for the monarchy (though not for this particular monarch) might decline.

Winnie 08-16-2008 04:11 PM

Well, you do have a good point, but what if it was the female that was gay. Do you honestly think that it would make a difference? She would still be in those pretty gowns, etc., plus men seem to be intimidated by homosexual women. It would just be so very interesting, to say the least. The female monarch would also beable to deliver her own child (who cares how she conceived) so the monarchy would survive.

Smilla 08-16-2008 04:15 PM

I guess the monarchy would survive a gay monarch anyway - a Lesbian monarch, too. If they were prudent, they'd play the whole thing down and not bring their partner to the press's attention. I don't know how this would play out if a female monarch were gay - it would be a very interesting situation.


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