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-   -   George III (1738-1820) and Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz (1744-1818) (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f165/george-iii-1738-1820-and-charlotte-of-mecklenburg-strelitz-1744-1818-a-6572.html)

arrdoc 01-03-2010 03:32 PM

George III
 
You might be interested in my book, Royal Maladies: Inherited Diseases in the Ruling Houses of Europe (Trafford Press 2008), which discusses the issue of porphyria in George III, his ancestors and descendents.
ARRDOC

HM Queen Catherine 01-04-2010 02:21 AM

As an American, I would not classify George III as a tyrant before, during or after the American Revolution. I have no doubt that he was considered one to the Colonists, of course. They had plenty of reasons to dislike British rule, and I'm sure a large part of their malcontent was focused on the King. He was, after all, the head of the government.

But George III was not overly interested in politics.. he was more passionate about agriculture, which is why he earned the moniker "Farmer George".

The historical record has since shown that George III was not responsible for the American Revolution. It appears his worst crime was acting as a constitutional monarch and supporting his cabinet ministers, who made the decisions. He even privately questioned the outcome of some of those decisions.

I find it interesting that the Americans probably had some idea that he was not really involved in Colonial policy.. because the Declaration of Independence clearly states that the king "has abdicated Government here.." referring to the Colonies.

Of course, after the Revolution, George was accused of trying to keep up the war with America.. but as most historians have pointed out, no European monarch at that time would have willingly given up the bulk of their dominions without a fight.. and I can understand this point of view... with the hindsight of several hundred years. I'm sure the Americans of the time felt quite unsympathetic toward Britain or the King or his ministers.

By 1778, George was not only fighting with the Americans, but also with the French since they signed a peace treaty with America in that year. But by 1781, he had to concede his loss of the Colonies and had even drafted a letter of abdication.. but that letter was never delivered to Parliament.

George III told John Adams in 1785: "I was the last to consent to the separation; but the separation having been made and having become inevitable, I have always said, as I say now, that I would be the first to meet the friendship of the United States as an independent power."

It was around this time that his health problems became more pronounced. George's first episode of serious derangement came in the fall of 1788, over 30 years before his death. I think that before the Regency began in 1811, most if not all, of the political decisions were made by Parliament and the King's ministers.

I have quite a bit of sympathy for George III. I think he had many admirable qualities as a man in his time.
He wasn't the greatest of monarchs.. but I would never consider him a tyrant.

silverstar 02-02-2010 12:48 PM

Maybe Gentry is right and George 3rd was
a good guy who believed in God, believed in the institution of marriage... was very moral
and faithful to his wife... Queen Charlotte.
He was trying to set a new moral tone after the decadence of King George 2nds court.
He had also married a good woman in Charlotte.. from Mecklenburg-Strelitz.. the daughter of a German Duke

go here
Celebheaven • View topic - Queen Charlotte... wife of George 3rd


.

Vasillisos Markos 02-07-2010 10:02 AM

I would like to know more about the friendship between Queen Charlotte and Marie Antoinette. Were any letters saved between the two women?

ricland 01-19-2011 04:00 AM

Prince William's African Heritage?
 
First, let's dispense with the nonsense promoted by Valdez Y Concom regarding Queen Charlotte's (consort Geo. III) supposed lineage to fifteenth century Portuguese moors. Not credible at all.

But what is credible is this quote from Baron Stockmar's memoir published in 1872 by his son.

"Small and crooked with the face of a true Mulatto."

Memoirs of Baron Stockmar - Google Books

Please note the word "true" and the capitalization of the word "mulatto."

Stockmar was a medical doctor. He arrived at the British court in 1816 serving as Physician-in-Ordinary to Prince Leopold on the occasion of Leopold's marriage to Princess Charlotte (Queen Charlotte's granddaughter) in 1816.

Queen Charlotte (by this time Queen Mother) died in 1818. As part of the Royal family Stockmar surely had enough time to render an informed opinion of what she looked like.

And then there's the portraits of Charlotte that appear to confirm Stockmar's mulatto quote. Granted, these portraits are dramatically at odds with the tens of others that are now are held forth as more accurate; yet, how are mulatto portraits such as the following explained:

https://www.blacknewsnet.net/wp-conte...lattoproof.jpg

https://www.blacknewsnet.net/wp-conte...11/01/afro.jpg

The last one to my mind, clearly depicts a girl with a mulatto afro. As does this one:

https://www.blacknewsnet.net/wp-conte...largeeyes1.jpg

And there are the other comments made about her:

“She was undoubtedly a plain young girl with a large mouth, with a rather swarthy complexion and, her nostrils spreading wide, with something of the appearance of a mulatto.”

George III A Personal History
by Christopher Hibbert 2000
George III A Personal History - Google Books

---------------------------------------

The last of the cocked hats: James Monroe & the Virginia dynasty:

“the small, mulatto-faced Queen Charlotte, whose wide-slit mouth was reminiscent of the rigid demarcation line she set between virtue and vice…”
University of Oklahoma Press, 1945 Arthur Styron
The last of the cocked hats: James ... - Google Books

------------------------------------------------------

Queen Charlotte was in reality a spiteful, narrow-minded woman, obstinate of will…. She had a face like a mulatto, with enormous nostrils and a wide slit for a mouth. “

The stranger in the house: a life of ... - Google Books

-------------------------------------------------------------

There are more, but I'll pause here.

How is all this explained?

Hastings 04-13-2011 09:39 AM

I am writing a book and would like to know if Queen Charlotte spoke English with a German accent. Does anyone have any information on this or could you refer me to a book on her? I have not had any luck with my library reference desk. This is probably of little interest to casual history buffs, but when trying to write dialogue it is a "must know". Thanks so much.

Kataryn 04-13-2011 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hastings (Post 1231350)
I am writing a book and would like to know if Queen Charlotte spoke English with a German accent. Does anyone have any information on this or could you refer me to a book on her? I have not had any luck with my library reference desk. This is probably of little interest to casual history buffs, but when trying to write dialogue it is a "must know". Thanks so much.

Aquote form a contemporary and confidante of Queen Charlotte on her accent:
"She speaks English almost perfectly well, with great choice and copiousness of language, though now and then with foreign idiom, and frequently with a foreign accent. Her manners have an easy dignity, with a most engaging simplicity, and she has all that fine high breeding which the mind, not the station, gives, of carefully avoiding to distress those who converse with her, or studiously removing the embarrassment she cannot prevent."

Excerpt from: Burney, Fanny: The Diary of Fanny Burney. Selected and edited by Christopher Lloyd. London, 1948. p. 96-97, 103-104.
If you check google books, you'll find various editions of her diaries and letters, which should give you plenty of information.

Another potential source of information;
Horace Walpole wrote about her arrival as a young bride in Britain:
She talks a great deal--is easy, civil, and not disconcerted. At first, when the bride-maids and the court were introduced to her, she said, "Mon Dieu, il y en a tant, il y en a tant!" She was pleased when she was to kiss the peeresses, but Lady Augusta was forced to take her hand and give it to those that were to kiss it, which was prettily humble and good-natured. While they waited for supper, she sat down, sang, and played. Her French is tolerable, she exchanged much both of that and German with the King, the Duke, and the Duke of York.

Excerpts from The Letters of Horace Walpole, Earl of Orford, v. 4 (1759-1764). London, 1840. p. 169-171.

About her letters to her brother, which are kept at the Mecklenburgische Landeshauptarchiv: "Her letters are written in the typical 18th century French of the European courts, with a smattering of German. In both languages, Queen Charlotte exhibits her own peculiar use of grammar and spelling. "

More information about Queen Charlotte and her everyday life can be found here:

Queen Charlotte, 1744-1818: A Bilingual Exhibit



HM Queen Catherine 04-13-2011 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hastings (Post 1231350)
I am writing a book and would like to know if Queen Charlotte spoke English with a German accent. Does anyone have any information on this or could you refer me to a book on her? I have not had any luck with my library reference desk. This is probably of little interest to casual history buffs, but when trying to write dialogue it is a "must know". Thanks so much.

I think you can safely assume that Charlotte did have a German accent when speaking English. She was born in Germany of German parents, and lived there until she was 17 years old.

She may have spoken with less of an accent in later years, but I doubt she ever entirely lost it.

Certainly, George III could both read and write in German and one presumes he could speak the language as well.. so it isn't a far stretch to assume that he communicated with his wife in German sometimes.

Hope this helps :)

Hastings 04-13-2011 03:31 PM

Queen Charlotte's accent
 
Thanks to Kataryn and HM Queen Catherine,

Your information is very helpful. It is rare, in the bios that I have read, that they mention an accent.
I have just recently discovered that the Duke of Wellington didn't have an Irish Brogue. In the past year have met many transplants from England and two from Ireland. At least half didn't even know that he was Irish. When I remonstrated with them about their history classes, one gentleman said that Wellington was too new. Their history classes taught the Battle of Hastings (1066) and the invasion of the Normans. Nothing as new as the 19th century.

Thanks again

Lenora 07-10-2011 02:20 AM

It was interesting to find out that George III was married to another woman and his marrige was annulled
BBC - History - British History in depth: George III and History's Poisoned Well

Furienna 07-14-2011 02:36 PM

Wasn't that George IV?

Zonk 07-14-2011 03:14 PM

I believe it was George IV that was secrety (or not so secrety) to Maria Fitzherbert.

George III was rumoured to to have been interested in other ladies (Lady Sarah Lennox comes to mind) but I have never heard that he was secretly married.

XeniaCasaraghi 07-28-2011 06:36 AM

Didn't George III and his wife having so many children cause some controversy?

Vasillisos Markos 07-28-2011 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi (Post 1293379)
Didn't George III and his wife having so many children cause some controversy?

My dear Xenia,

I am not sure. I do know that Parliament complained about Queen Victoria having so many children because it caused a drain on the civil list or whatever they called it at that time.

What I do know is that the public was upset with the behavior of George III's sons' dissolute lifestyles and this caused controversy, especially after the tragic death of Princess Charlotte. This caused those dissolute sons to put aside their mistresses in order to seek suitable and sanctioned marriages.

XeniaCasaraghi 10-12-2011 02:26 AM

I'm Watching the Madness of King George right now. Helen Mirren is of course fantastic, and DANG do I hate the Prince of Wales. Someone accidentally push him down that spiral staircase and take one for the team.

Vasillisos Markos 10-12-2011 11:48 PM

I loved that movie! I think Helen Mirren won Best Actress at Cannes for her portrayal of Queen Charlotte.

Furienna 10-15-2011 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi (Post 1325520)
I'm Watching the Madness of King George right now. Helen Mirren is of course fantastic, and DANG do I hate the Prince of Wales. Someone accidentally push him down that spiral staircase and take one for the team.

I've only partly seen that movie, and that was some years ago, but I remember thinking that the Prince of Wales did have a good motive for how he treated his ill father: He wanted to marry a commoner, which his father never would have allowed, if he only had been well.

Vasillisos Markos 10-15-2011 10:01 PM

My dear Furienna,

I did not make that assumption, although I can see how you reached that conclusion. What struck me about his commoner wife was her devotion and piety towards the King. Despite what it might mean to her, and the Prince of Wales, she was devoted to the monarchy and supported the King. This showed great character in my opinion.

XeniaCasaraghi 10-16-2011 12:58 AM

Wasn't the Prince of Wales already married at this time? Or are you just referring to the movie.
If you're wondering why don't I know the answer, its because I am watching the movie on Youtube very slowly, George just got better and his son fainted.

Vasillisos Markos 10-17-2011 12:09 AM

From the movie it appeared that he did marry her but I don't know if that happened in reality. I don't know much about George IV, both before and after he became King.


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