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-   -   Delphine Boël, daughter of King Albert II (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f181/delphine-bo-l-daughter-of-king-albert-ii-6319.html)

Pranter 06-07-2020 10:33 AM

I can't remember the particulars of Belgium law ...would she have to be a legitimate daughter to qualify for a title?


LaRae

Tatiana Maria 06-07-2020 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pranter (Post 2319081)
I can't remember the particulars of Belgium law ...would she have to be a legitimate daughter to qualify for a title?

The general rule of the Belgian nobility is that titles are only recognized for descendants in legitimate male line, though special remainders have occasionally been granted. I am not sure of the particulars of law - as a matter of fact, there seems to be some confusion around what legislation the rule is founded on.

Pranter 06-07-2020 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria (Post 2319084)
The general rule of the Belgian nobility is that titles are only recognized for descendants in legitimate male line, though special remainders have occasionally been granted. I am not sure of the particulars of law - as a matter of fact, there seems to be some confusion around what legislation the rule is founded on.

Ok so at this point, really all we are talking about is her *right* to use the last name of her father. Which seems to be fairly obvious that she would from what I understand.

Although if they can't decide on what basis the law is founded on perhaps, assuming she wants a title, she might have grounds eventually.


LaRae

leidi 06-11-2020 11:35 PM

So let me get this straight: Delphine will not be in the sucession line but she might get a title?

Duc_et_Pair 06-12-2020 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leidi (Post 2319925)
So let me get this straight: Delphine will not be in the sucession line but she might get a title?

In Belgium titles are usually inherited by legitimate descendants. But special reminders can be issued. For so far there is no any talk of a title as Ms Boël herself stated she was not interested in titles.

KellyAtLast 06-12-2020 02:52 AM

is a "special reminder" the Belgian version of the British Letters patent?

Mbruno 06-20-2020 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pranter (Post 2319086)
Ok so at this point, really all we are talking about is her *right* to use the last name of her father. Which seems to be fairly obvious that she would from what I understand.

Although if they can't decide on what basis the law is founded on perhaps, assuming she wants a title, she might have grounds eventually.


LaRae




I am not surprised that Mrs. Boël might petition to use the title of "Princess of Belgium" with the style of Royal Highness, as I have long believed that has been her intention from the start despite public claims to the contrary.



Keep in mind that royal titles are a separate class from titles of nobility and subject to a different set of regulations. My understanding is that Mrs. Boël's possible claim to the HRH is based on Art.2 of the Royal Decree of November 12, 2015, which reads:


Quote:

Art. 2. Dans les actes publics et privés qui les concernent, les Princes et les Princesses, enfants et petits-enfants, issus de la descendance directe de Sa Majesté le Roi Albert II portent le titre de Prince ou de Princesse de Belgique à la suite de leur prénom et, pour autant qu'ils les portent, de leur nom de famille et de leur titre dynastique et avant les autres titres qui leur reviennent de droit par leur ascendance. Leur prénom est précédé par le prédicat Son Altesse Royale.
Note that text of the Royal Decree does not make any explicit reference to legitimacy, but rather only to the "children and grandchildren, coming from the direct descendancy of His Majesty the King Albert II." There is a catch though: the article applies specifically only to the "Princes and Princesses" who are children or grandchildren originating from King Albert II's descendancy. There is a possible interpretation that "princes and princesses" should be read here as meaning "dynasts" in the sense of "princes du sang" in the old French monarchy, which would in turn imply legitimacy. It will be a great opportunity for the Belgian courts to clarify and settle this matter once and for all.



Even if Delphine gets the HRH, she probably will not be in the line of succession as the Belgian constitution, unlike the 2015 royal decree, is pretty clear about legitimacy:


Quote:

Art. 85


Les pouvoirs constitutionnels du Roi sont héréditaires dans la descendance directe, naturelle et légitime de S.M. Léopold, Georges, Chrétien, Frédéric de Saxe-Cobourg, par ordre de primogéniture.
EDIT: Just another comment, it is important to stress that Prince/Princess is a dignity in Belgium that is prefixed to the name and is not necessarily associated with the title of "Prince of Belgium", used after the name and other dynastic titles when appropriate (e.g. S.A.R la Princesse Élisabeth, Duchesse de Brabant, Princesse de Belgique). Indeed, a prince or princess may not be a "Prince / Princess of Belgium" or an HRH as is the case for example of Anna-Astrid and Maximilian. The recent royal decree on royal coats of arms also makes that distinction as there are now separate arms for the King, the emeritus King (after abdication), the Duke or Duchess of Brabant , the Princes and Princesses of Belgium who are not the Duke or Duchess of Brabant, and the princes and princesses who are not "Princes / Princesses of Belgium". As I said, I look forward to the Belgian courts finally clariying the meaning of "princes and princesses" in the royal decrees of 1891, 1991 and 2015, as that has been a very controversial issue here on TRF for quite some time.

maria-olivia 06-20-2020 09:06 AM

She never want to be Princess , She just want to have a Father and Grandfather for her Childfen.

Mbruno 06-20-2020 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maria-olivia (Post 2321514)
She never want to be Princess , She just want to have a Father and Grandfather for her Childfen.


I find it unlikely that King Albert's lawyer would mention the issue of titles if it were not an issue that is expected to come up in hearing.

Prinsara 08-10-2020 03:05 PM

https://www.vanitatis.elconfidencial...lgica_2710112/
https://www.rtbf.be/info/societe/det...oi?id=10557734

Delphine gave an interview a few days ago. (Google Translate). Understandably, she's still not entirely happy. (Aside from which, it must be awful to have this drawn out legal limbo.)

"It hurts me that people say that I have done it for money or interest. There are more important things for me."

maria-olivia 08-11-2020 04:12 AM

She has her Painting Exhibitons now in Knokke - le Zoute . I wonder if she will sell a lot of her Provocating Paintings. She gave interviews in her gallery.

Tatiana Maria 08-11-2020 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prinsara (Post 2333933)
https://www.vanitatis.elconfidencial...lgica_2710112/
https://www.rtbf.be/info/societe/det...oi?id=10557734

Delphine gave an interview a few days ago. (Google Translate). Understandably, she's still not entirely happy. (Aside from which, it must be awful to have this drawn out legal limbo.)

"It hurts me that people say that I have done it for money or interest. There are more important things for me."

I wonder who it was that she says asked her to move even further away than London.

Prinsara 08-11-2020 08:33 AM

Has Delphine ever made any art about her grandmother Queen Astrid? She's certainly got the right to, she wants to explore her heritage, and there's so much mutual sadness there. Mental health tends to necessitate you take breaks from what constantly hurts and infuriates you.

Helen.CH 08-12-2020 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maria-olivia (Post 2321514)
She never want to be Princess , She just want to have a Father and Grandfather for her Childfen.

Unusual way to get there, goung to court&press does not get her love&emotukns which she once had, as far as it was reported Albert had a relationship with his daughter plus she had a dad Mr.Broel.

Denville 08-12-2020 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helen.CH (Post 2334334)
Unusual way to get there, goung to court&press does not get her love&emotukns which she once had, as far as it was reported Albert had a relationship with his daughter plus she had a dad Mr.Broel.

Mr Boel was not her "dad", he married her mother to give her a name, and there was apparnetly no relationship. Albert rejected her..

amaryllus 08-12-2020 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maria-olivia (Post 2321514)
She never want to be Princess , She just want to have a Father and Grandfather for her Childfen.


She Always had a Father and Grandfather for her children But ok.

So she has gone through this circus to get recognized. Whoopi doo. She will get money. Great. But she and the courts can’t force the RF accept her or want her near them much less love her or her kids as family.

Denville 08-12-2020 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amaryllus (Post 2334342)
She Always had a Father and Grandfather for her children But ok.

So she has gone through this circus to get recognized. Whoopi doo. She will get money. Great. But she and the courts can’t force the RF accept her or want her near them much less love her or her kids as family.

My understanding was that Albert rejected her because he was afraid of the scandal coming out. Her mothers' husband was not a father to her..
She can't force people, true but if she wants to go through the case to get official recognition, I dont blame her.

Tatiana Maria 08-12-2020 10:01 AM

Jonkheer Jacques Boël married Baroness Sybille de Sélys Longchamps several years before Delphine's birth and did not divorce her until Delphine was a teenager. Therefore, applying the law, he was automatically Delphine's father. Likewise, Prince (later King) Albert was automatically the father of Philippe, Astrid, and Laurent by dint of being married to their mother, and did not require a court process or DNA testing to be acknowledged.

Acknowledgement of parentage | Federal Public Service Foreign Affairs

Although Jonkheer Boël provided financial support, as acknowledged during the court case, Mrs. Boël and her lawyers have indeed described the relationship as a painful one without any fatherly affection.

They have also indeed described King Albert rejecting and cutting off contact with her a short time after their relationship was disclosed to the public.

If both King Albert II and Jonkheer Jacques Boël actually had a loving relationship with their daughter up to today, I suspect that the court case would never have arisen.

Heavs 08-12-2020 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amaryllus (Post 2334342)
She Always had a Father and Grandfather for her children But ok.

So she has gone through this circus to get recognized. Whoopi doo. She will get money. Great. But she and the courts can’t force the RF accept her or want her near them much less love her or her kids as family.

She appears just as stubborn has he does.

If money was all she wanted then she would have stuck with her step father as her legal father.

I assume she knows she's not going to be invited to family events but she appears to want to force the open acknowledgement of who her father is even if she never sees him. Possibly stemming from the fact that he cut off contact once rumours started getting out when she was a child.

It seems quite a sad and complicated case all around but I side eye Albert more. Children never ask to be born.

Prinsara 08-12-2020 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heavs (Post 2334363)
I assume she knows she's not going to be invited to family events but she appears to want to force the open acknowledgement of who her father is even if she never sees him. Possibly stemming from the fact that he cut off contact once rumours started getting out when she was a child.

Possibly stemming from the fact that she and her children were placed on a list with terrorists and criminals due to being "politically exposed" (Delphine was told she could be taken off if she stopped "claiming" to be the King's daughter.) Albert either was behind that or just didn't care.

Delphine and Albert had contact and some sort of an amicable relationship until she was about 31 or so.

Nobody likes to be called a liar, not by their father and not by the public.


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