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Blog Real 10-04-2021 10:17 AM

State Visit from The King and Queen of Spain: November 24-25, 2021
 
We have a state visit from Spain to Sweden on Nov 24th and 25th.

https://www.svenskdam.se/kungligt/ju...aparet/7914479

muriel 10-05-2021 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blog Real (Post 2429465)
We have a state visit from Spain to Sweden on Nov 24th and 25th.

https://www.svenskdam.se/kungligt/ju...aparet/7914479

Look forward to it. Monarchy to monarchy state visits usually give us serious levels of bling.

carlota 10-05-2021 09:20 AM

i am looking forward to this. we haven't had many monachy to monachy state visits lately with COVID, so this will be quite exciting.

Mbruno 10-06-2021 01:13 PM

I saw a picture of King Carl Gustaf and Queen Silvia's state visit to Spain in 1983 and King Carl Gustaf wore the collar of the Order of the Golden Fleece, whereas King Juan Carlos wore the collar of the Order of the Seraphim, see link below.


https://royalwatcherblog.com/2019/03...to-spain-1983/



Like King Carl Gustaf, Queen Beatrix, Emperor Akihito, and King Albert II also chose to wear the collar of the Fleece on state visits, but Queen Elizabeth II famously did not (she only wore the dame's ribbon insignia in 1989 and 2017). King Juan Carlos himself rarely wears the collar. The only time I remember seeing him with the collar was at Prince Felipe's wedding, but there may have been other occasions too which I missed.


Anyway, assuming that the Spanish state vist to Sweden in November is confirmed, can we expect King Carl Gustaf to wear the collar of the Fleece again?



Wikipedia says that Felipe, as Prince of Asturias, was also made a Knight of the Seraphim with collar. Normally, I would expect him to wear only the Grand Cross in Sweden, but, given his father's precedent in 1983 (albeit in Spain, not in Sweden), can we expect King Felipe to wear the collar of the Seraphim too?



It would be quite nice if both monarchs had collars, which is a quite rare sighting!

Stefan 10-06-2021 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 2429829)
King Juan Carlos himself rarely wears the collar. The only time I remember seeing him with the collar was at Prince Felipe's wedding, but there may have been other occasions too which I missed.


!


If i remeber right he wore it also at the wedding of his daughters,.
But interesting to see that Queen Silvia was only awarded the Order of Isabel the catholic and not the Order of Carlos III. which is usually given to Queen Consorts.

Mbruno 10-06-2021 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 2429834)
If i remeber right he wore it also at the wedding of his daughters,.
But interesting to see that Queen Silvia was only awarded the Order of Isabel the catholic and not the Order of Carlos III. which is usually given to Queen Consorts.


Of course! I missed it because I didn't watch the weddings of the Infantas.


You are right. Normally the queens consort receive the Order of Carlos III, but I suppose that is decided by the Spanish government since both the order of Carlos III and the order of Isabella the Catholic are civil (not dynastic) orders. Maybe Queen Silvia will get the Grand Cross of Carlos III this time and CP Victoria might get either the Order of Carlos III or the Order of Isabella the Catholic. Crown Princes normally get the latter, but Prince Charles for example received the former.

An Ard Ri 10-06-2021 02:37 PM

And hopefully queen Letizia will get a Swedish order too!

Stefan 10-06-2021 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri (Post 2429855)
And hopefully queen Letizia will get a Swedish order too!


For sure she will get the Order of the Serpahim.
And Prince Daniel will get likely a spanish Order. This will be then his first from an european Monarchy except Sweden of course.

Mary-Rose 10-06-2021 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri (Post 2429855)
And hopefully queen Letizia will get a Swedish order too!

It seems to be "safe" she will receive the Order of the seraphim.. And For Silvia finally the Order of Charles III as she received just The Order of Isabella the catholic previously.. For Victoria, Daniel, CP and Sofia i expect the Order of Isabella the catholic, If Cristina attend she most likely wears the Isabella Order too(she received 1979) As unlikely it is for Madeleine- If she is in Sweden I could imagine The Order of Merit Grand Cross

BTW the Swedish royal house updated the Calendar for complete November, except November 23-25. I hope its a three days state visit and not just two days ..

https://www.kungahuset.se/kalender.4...ge=3#Kalendern

Blog Real 10-06-2021 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mary-Rose (Post 2429866)
BTW the Swedish royal house updated the Calendar for complete November, except November 23-25. I hope its a three days state visit and not just two days ..

https://www.kungahuset.se/kalender.4...ge=3#Kalendern

I also believe that the visit will last for 3 days. I hope the visit will be officially announced by the end of this month.

An Ard Ri 10-06-2021 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 2429864)
For sure she will get the Order of the Serpahim.
And Prince Daniel will get likely a spanish Order. This will be then his first from an european Monarchy except Sweden of course.


That's very true as I hadn't realized Prince Daniel didn't have any foreign royal orders and currently has the Royal Order of the Seraphim and the Royal Order of the Polar Star from Sweden.

Mary-Rose 10-06-2021 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blog Real (Post 2429869)
I also believe that the visit will last for 3 days. I hope the visit will be officially announced by the end of this month.

I think the German state visit to sweden was announced two weeks before it started. So we might have to wait a bit longer..

Kingen 10-06-2021 03:46 PM

I have also reflected on that Queen Silvia "only" received the Order of Isabella the Catholic. She might get another order this time.

I have been thinking about the order Crown Princess Victoria would receive as well, and it seems there is no logic in previous awards. Willem-Alexander was awarded the Order of Isabella the Catholic, but Crown Prince Haakon the Order of Carlos III. Let us see what practice King Felipe will set

I doubt King Felipe has the Order of the Seraphim with the collar. The Order only has one grade Knight/member, but the collar is seen as special distinction to Heads of State. In practice that means fellow monarchs, or the President from Iceland and Finland. As King Felipe already is a Knight of the Order of the Seraphim it's likely that he will receive the collar during this State visit. On the other hand, if was to be made a Knight during this state visit, he would receive the collar during the next Swedish state visit.

Mbruno 10-06-2021 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingen (Post 2429873)
I have also reflected on that Queen Silvia "only" received the Order of Isabella the Catholic. She might get another order this time.

I have been thinking about the order Crown Princess Victoria would receive as well, and it seems there is no logic in previous awards. Willem-Alexander was awarded the Order of Isabella the Catholic, but Crown Prince Haakon the Order of Carlos III. Let us see what practice King Felipe will set





The King of Spain actually has several options in terms of orders that are awarded as diplomatic courtesy.



The Golden Fleece is more or less like the Garter in the sense that it should be in theory in the personal gift of the King as a dynastic order. There is some debate on whether that is still strictly true today or not, but, in any case, it is a very exclusive order (currently there are only 17 living members, including 3 members of the Spanish Royal Family) and no one in Sweden is expected to receive it other than King Carl Gustaf, who is already a Knight.



The other orders are civil orders in which, according to the statutes, awards are pre-approved in the Council of Ministers and then made by royal decree on the recommendation of a responsible minister, which I interpret as meaning that they are decided by the government. As diplomatic courtesy, three options are used: the order of Charles III (Carlos III in Spanish), the order of Isabella the Catholic (Isabel la Católica in Spanish) and, as mentioned above but often forgotten, the order of Civil Merit. The collar, both of Charles III and Isabella the Catholic, are reserved normally for Heads of State, whereas consorts normally get the Grand Cross, which, in Spain, is a lower grade. As you have mentioned, some Crown Princes (Willem-Alexander and Philippe) received the order of Isabella the Catholic, whereas others (the Prince of Wales and Haakon) received the order of Charles III, so it is mostly unpredictable. In recent years, the Spanish government even awarded only the Encomienda de Número of Isabella the Catholic (equivalent to a grade like Knight Commander) to Princess Anne and Prince Andrew, which I find a little bit rude.



If I had to guess, I would say


Queen Silvia: upgraded to the Grand Cross of Charles III;


Victoria and Daniel: Grand Cross of Isabella the Catholic, or Grand Cross of Charles III for Victoria and Grand Cross of Isabella the Catholic for Daniel (the former as for Philippe/Mathilde and the latter as for Haakon/Mette-Marit);


Carl-Philip and Sofia: no Spanish order, or perhaps the Grand Cross of Civil Merit.


Quote:


I doubt King Felipe has the Order of the Seraphim with the collar. The Order only has one grade Knight/member, but the collar is seen as special distinction to Heads of State. In practice that means fellow monarchs, or the President from Iceland and Finland. As King Felipe already is a Knight of the Order of the Seraphim it's likely that he will receive the collar during this State visit. On the other hand, if was to be made a Knight during this state visit, he would receive the collar during the next Swedish state visit.
The Wikipedia page on "List of Knights of the Seraphim" shows Felipe's coat of arms as Prince of Asturias surrounded by the collar of the Seraphim rather than the grand cross only. However, another page on "List of hono(u)rs of the Spanish royal family by country" lists only Juan Carlos as "Knight with collar", so suppose you are right. In any case, if King Felipe doesn't have the collar yet, it is a good opportunity for him to get it now and even more reason for him to wear it in Sweden.

Kingen 10-09-2021 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 2429880)
The Wikipedia page on "List of Knights of the Seraphim" shows Felipe's coat of arms as Prince of Asturias surrounded by the collar of the Seraphim rather than the grand cross only. However, another page on "List of hono(u)rs of the Spanish royal family by country" lists only Juan Carlos as "Knight with collar", so suppose you are right. In any case, if King Felipe doesn't have the collar yet, it is a good opportunity for him to get it now and even more reason for him to wear it in Sweden.

For some reason all men (Knights) with the Order of Seraphim have the collar pictured at the Coat of arms, while most women (Members) have the blue sash pictured. So the Coat of arms is not the best guidance in this case. Hopefully, it might be a change in how the orders are presented and listed with the reform on orders in Sweden.

lula 10-09-2021 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 2429880)
T
As you have mentioned, some Crown Princes (Willem-Alexander and Philippe) received the order of Isabella the Catholic, whereas others (the Prince of Wales and Haakon) received the order of Charles III, so it is mostly unpredictable. In recent years, the Spanish government even awarded only the Encomienda de Número of Isabella the Catholic (equivalent to a grade like Knight Commander) to Princess Anne and Prince Andrew, which I find a little bit rude.

Prince of Wales received the order of Charles III in 1986, maybe it was a gesture from Juan Carlos, the rest of the Crown Princes received the order of Isabella the Catholic. The change occurs with Prince Haakon in 2006, but it may be because in 2002 there was a change in the order's legislation. Nor is it strange that when they count on an exchange of visits in the near future, they start with the order of Isabella the Catholic, and then go up in importance of the orders with each visit.

In the British case, Queen Letizia and other members of the Spanish delegation did not receive British orders, so due to the principle of reciprocity the British could not have received them, and exceptions were made, but opting for a lower degree than usual.

Mary-Rose 10-13-2021 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mary-Rose (Post 2429866)
BTW the Swedish royal house updated the Calendar for complete November, except November 23-25. I hope its a three days state visit and not just two days ..

https://www.kungahuset.se/kalender.4...ge=3#Kalendern

Unfortunately the Swedish court made an calendar update and added an event for King,Queen and CP Couple for November 23rd. So If this state visit take place i don't think its a three day visit..

lula 10-21-2021 07:36 AM

The Spanish Ministry of Foreign Affairs officially confirms the visit from November 23 to 25

https://www.exteriores.gob.es/Portal/...1_COMU082.aspx

https://twitter.com/alexandropress/s...48029516517378

The king and queen will arrive on the 23rd and the events will be on the 24th and 25th according to the Swedish Royal House.

https://www.kungahuset.se/press/pres...e0a7100c3.html

LadyFinn 10-21-2021 08:28 AM

Press release in english from the Swedish Royal Court
State Visit from Spain - Sveriges Kungahus

An Ard Ri 10-21-2021 08:33 AM

A shorter State visit than normal but to be expected with Covid restrictions and thankfully going ahead.

It will a busy 2 days!

Blog Real 10-21-2021 08:55 AM

Is this the first time the Kings of Spain have been to Sweden since Princess Victoria's wedding?
Felipe and Letizia were not at Princess Madeleine's wedding in 2013 nor were they at Prince Carl Philip's wedding in 2015.

It seems that King Felipe VI and Queen Letizia arrive in Sweden on the 23rd. But it will be a shorter visit than usual.
I'm glad the visit will go ahead.
https://www.abc.es/espana/casa-real/...3_noticia.html

https://www.exteriores.gob.es/Portal...1_COMU082.aspx

Stefan 10-21-2021 10:23 AM

So only a 2 day State Visit. Pity.

Mary-Rose 10-21-2021 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 2432515)
So only a 2 day State Visit. Pity.

I agree its a pity just two days.. so its unlikely there is a return dinner or concert on the second day. ( I cant remember any return dinner during a Spanish state visit abroad but it seems to be Swedish tradition)

lula 11-16-2021 06:42 AM

The programme of the visit

https://www.kungahuset.se/press/pres...a9681b643.html

Royal Decree 1010/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Royal and Distinguished Spanish Order of Charles III is awarded to Her Majesty Queen Silvia of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18858.pdf

Royal Decree 1011/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Isabella the Catholic is awarded to Her Royal Highness, Princess Victoria of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18859.pdf

Royal Decree 1013/2021, of November 16, which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to His Royal Highness, Prince Daniel of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18861.pdf

Royal Decree 1014/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to His Royal Highness, Prince Carl Philip of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18862.pdf

Royal Decree 1015/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to Her Royal Highness, Princess Sofia of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18863.pdf

Royal Decree 1012/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Isabella the Catholic is awarded to the Swedish personalities who are cited.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18860.pdf

Royal Decree 1016/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to the Swedish personalities who are cited.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18864.pdf

Stefan 11-17-2021 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lula (Post 2437840)
Royal Decree 1010/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Royal and Distinguished Spanish Order of Charles III is awarded to Her Majesty Queen Silvia of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18858.pdf

Royal Decree 1011/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Isabella the Catholic is awarded to Her Royal Highness, Princess Victoria of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18859.pdf

Royal Decree 1013/2021, of November 16, which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to His Royal Highness, Prince Daniel of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18861.pdf

Royal Decree 1014/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to His Royal Highness, Prince Carl Philip of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18862.pdf

Royal Decree 1015/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to Her Royal Highness, Princess Sofia of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18863.pdf

Royal Decree 1012/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Isabella the Catholic is awarded to the Swedish personalities who are cited.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18860.pdf

Royal Decree 1016/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to the Swedish personalities who are cited.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18864.pdf


Why does Prince Daniel not get the same Order then his wife?. As far as i remeber Queen Máxima (and then still Máxima Zirreguieta) and queen Mathilde both got the Order of Isabel the Catholic.

Mary-Rose 11-17-2021 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 2437841)
Why does Prince Daniel not get the same Order then his wife?. As far as i remeber Queen Máxima (and then still Máxima Zirreguieta) and queen Mathilde both got the Order of Isabel the Catholic.

It´s a bit strange in my opinion.. I will never understand the order policy of the Spanish royals.. It was strange Camilla has not received any order during the state visit and it was strange Carla Bruni received the Order of Charles III.. And now?? Im not suprised Sofia to receive this low Order but Daniel?? I mean at an state visit in the future Victoria has to receive the Order of Charles III, and someday the Golden Fleece (As Queen) And Daniel? Later on Isabella Order and as Prince Consort Charles III? maybe it makes sense....?
This theory implies that there will be two more spain/sweden state visits in far future..

lula 11-17-2021 05:43 AM

Between 1998 and 2002 there was a reform of the laws that regulate Spanish decorations and the norm is more restrictive. The order of Charles III is more restrictive and that has led to more orders of Isabella or Civil Merit being granted. Even Queen Letizia continues with her Grand Cross of the Order of Charles III and has not yet received the necklace that her mother-in-law does have.

They apply a logic according to which when Victoria becomes queen and they visit Spain, she will receive the Order of Charles III and Daniel the order of Isabella, and when Felipe will visit Sweden again, Victoria will receive the Golden Fleece and Daniel (as Silvia now) the Order of Charles III.

muriel 11-17-2021 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mary-Rose (Post 2437853)
It´s a bit strange in my opinion.. I will never understand the order policy of the Spanish royals.. It was strange Camilla has not received any order during the state visit and it was strange Carla Bruni received the Order of Charles III.. And now?? Im not suprised Sofia to receive this low Order but Daniel?? I mean at an state visit in the future Victoria has to receive the Order of Charles III, and someday the Golden Fleece (As Queen) And Daniel? Later on Isabella Order and as Prince Consort Charles III? maybe it makes sense....?
This theory implies that there will be two more spain/sweden state visits in far future..

I suspect the reason Camilla did not receive a Spanish order is because of the principal of reciprocity. The British do not offer spouses of other royal families with orders. So King Felipe received the Garter, but Letizia did not. I suspect that is why Camilla did not receive one.

lula 11-17-2021 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mary-Rose (Post 2437853)
It´s a bit strange in my opinion.. I will never understand the order policy of the Spanish royals.. It was strange Camilla has not received any order during the state visit and it was strange Carla Bruni received the Order of Charles III.. And now?? Im not suprised Sofia to receive this low Order but Daniel?? I mean at an state visit in the future Victoria has to receive the Order of Charles III, and someday the Golden Fleece (As Queen) And Daniel? Later on Isabella Order and as Prince Consort Charles III? maybe it makes sense....?
This theory implies that there will be two more spain/sweden state visits in far future..

The exchange of decorations is governed by diplomatic rules of reciprocity, so the decorations that are exchanged are of similar rank.

Letizia did not receive any British decorations, and Camilla and Kate did not receive Spanish decorations. Who, by decision of the British Royal House, performed a role of companions on the visit were decorated.

Mary-Rose 11-17-2021 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lula (Post 2437858)
The exchange of decorations is governed by diplomatic rules of reciprocity, so the decorations that are exchanged are of similar rank.

Letizia did not receive any British decorations, and Camilla and Kate did not receive Spanish decorations. Who, by decision of the British Royal House, performed a role of companions on the visit were decorated.

But Harry, Anne, and Andrew received an low class of the Isabella order, why was not the same given to Camilla?

Somebody 11-17-2021 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 2437841)
Why does Prince Daniel not get the same Order then his wife?. As far as i remeber Queen Máxima (and then still Máxima Zirreguieta) and queen Mathilde both got the Order of Isabel the Catholic.

This sounds really strange. Are you saying that Máxima got her order prior to her marriage to Willem-Alexander? Did they visit during their engagement and was she somehow included?

N.B. It is Zorreguieta

lula 11-17-2021 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mary-Rose (Post 2437862)
But Harry, Anne, and Andrew received an low class of the Isabella order, why was not the same given to Camilla?

Because the three of them were chosen by the Queen as companions of the King and Queen in acts of the visit: visit to Westminster Abbey, Guildhall banquet and visit to Francis Crick Institute. And I suppose that according to British logic that means that they did have an active role in the visit and could be decorated.

Stefan 11-17-2021 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somebody (Post 2437863)
This sounds really strange. Are you saying that Máxima got her order prior to her marriage to Willem-Alexander? Did they visit during their engagement and was she somehow included?

N.B. It is Zorreguieta


Yes there was a spanish State Visit top the Netherlands in autumn 2001 where Máxima got the Order of Isabel the catholic.

Mbruno 11-17-2021 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lula (Post 2437840)
Royal Decree 1010/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Royal and Distinguished Spanish Order of Charles III is awarded to Her Majesty Queen Silvia of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18858.pdf

Royal Decree 1011/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Isabella the Catholic is awarded to Her Royal Highness, Princess Victoria of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18859.pdf

Royal Decree 1013/2021, of November 16, which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to His Royal Highness, Prince Daniel of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18861.pdf

Royal Decree 1014/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to His Royal Highness, Prince Carl Philip of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18862.pdf

Royal Decree 1015/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to Her Royal Highness, Princess Sofia of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18863.pdf

Royal Decree 1012/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Isabella the Catholic is awarded to the Swedish personalities who are cited.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18860.pdf

Royal Decree 1016/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to the Swedish personalities who are cited.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18864.pdf


I got all my guesses right, except the Order of Civil Merit for Daniel. I was expecting the Order of Isabella the Catholic.


Note that the royal decree awarding the Grand Cross of the Order of Charles III is countersigned by the Prime Minister (Presidente del Gobierno) and appears in the section of the Office of the Prime Minister. That is because the Prime Minister is the Grand Chancellor of the Order of Charles III. Conversely, both the Order of Isabella the Catholic and the Order of Civil Merit are under the responsibility of the Minister of Foreign Affairs, who countersigns the RDs as Grand Chancellor. The King of Spain of course also signs all the RDs (Felipe R) as the Grand Master of the royal orders and the "fountain of honors" under Art. 62(f) of the Spanish constitution.


Quote:

Article 62 [Competences]
It is incumbent upon the King:
[...]

f) to issue the decrees approved in the Council of Ministers, confer civilian and military positions, and award honors and distinctions in accordance with the law;
[...]
Any news on Swedish orders for King Felipe VI and Queen Letizia?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 2437841)
Why does Prince Daniel not get the same Order then his wife?. As far as i remeber Queen Máxima (and then still Máxima Zirreguieta) and queen Mathilde both got the Order of Isabel the Catholic.


They did indeed. Daniel has been somewhat downgraded compared to other consorts, but at least he got a Grand Cross.

lula 11-17-2021 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 2437866)
Yes there was a spanish State Visit top the Netherlands in autumn 2001 where Máxima got the Order of Isabel the catholic.

The Dutch Royal House considered that the fiancee was part of the Royal Family and participated both in the gala dinner where she wore the family's aquamarine tiara, and in the reception offered by the King and Queen of Spain.

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos...92?s=2048x2048

Previously, Máxima had also come with a tiara to the wedding of Prince Haakon and Mette Marit (for example, Letizia went to the Danish wedding a week before hers, but did not wear a tiara). In short, although she was not married, Maxima was already an official part of the family.

Mbruno 11-17-2021 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lula (Post 2437871)
The Dutch Royal House considered that the fiancee was part of the Royal Family and participated both in the gala dinner where she wore the family's aquamarine tiara, and in the reception offered by the King and Queen of Spain.

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos...92?s=2048x2048

Previously, Máxima had also come with a tiara to the wedding of Prince Haakon and Mette Marit (for example, Letizia went to the Danish wedding a week before hers, but did not wear a tiara). In short, although she was not married, Maxima was already an official part of the family.




Queen Beatrix looked very regal with the collar of the Order of the Golden Fleece and the Württemberg tiara. In fact, they all look nice in the picture despite King JC's odd facial expression.

Stefan 11-17-2021 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lula (Post 2437871)
The Dutch Royal House considered that the fiancee was part of the Royal Family and participated both in the gala dinner where she wore the family's aquamarine tiara, and in the reception offered by the King and Queen of Spain.

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos...92?s=2048x2048

Previously, Máxima had also come with a tiara to the wedding of Prince Haakon and Mette Marit (for example, Letizia went to the Danish wedding a week before hers, but did not wear a tiara). In short, although she was not married, Maxima was already an official part of the family.


Maybe but i still find it nor right to give the an higher Order to a fiancée of an Heir then to a person who is since 11 years married to an Heir. And the changes you have mentioned where apparently already in work by then.

lula 11-17-2021 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 2437874)
Maybe but i still find it nor right to give the an higher Order to a fiancée of an Heir then to a person who is since 11 years married to an Heir. And the changes you have mentioned where apparently already in work by then.

The most important change was in 2002 that restricted the use of the order of Charles III, and that led to other orders being used. Before that date the use of the order of Charles III was more extended even among Heads of State, and the use of the Civil Merit order was strange. The change in the late 90s, was only to eliminate the "lady" version of the orders and make the same for men and women (until the early 80s the Order of Charles III was only for men).

Mbruno 11-17-2021 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 2437874)
Maybe but i still find it nor right to give the an higher Order to a fiancée of an Heir then to a person who is since 11 years married to an Heir. And the changes you have mentioned where apparently already in work by then.


There is a different King and a different government in Spain right now, so the criteria for decorations may have changed.

Stefan 11-17-2021 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 2437889)
There is a different King and a different government in Spain right now, so the criteria for decorations may have changed.


Maybe but Empress Masako also got the Order of Isabel the catholic as Crown Princess and after just looking at pics even Princess Kiko. And that was during King Felipe's reign. At last they are wearing it in 2017.

Tatiana Maria 11-17-2021 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 2437874)
Maybe but i still find it nor right to give the an higher Order to a fiancée of an Heir then to a person who is since 11 years married to an Heir. And the changes you have mentioned where apparently already in work by then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 2437889)
There is a different King and a different government in Spain right now, so the criteria for decorations may have changed.

Was there previous Spanish precedent for giving the spouse of an heir a lower order than the heir / the same order as the younger sibling of an heir?

lula 11-17-2021 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 2437892)
Maybe but Empress Masako also got the Order of Isabel the catholic as Crown Princess and after just looking at pics even Princess Kiko. And that was during King Felipe's reign. At last they are wearing it in 2017.

They had already received them when Juan Carlos and Sofia visited Japan in 2008, so on 2017 visit no member of the Imperial family received a more important order. The emperors of Japan had been in Spain in 1994, and Juan Carlos and Sofia in Japan in 1980 with emperor Hirohito.

Now Haakon and Naruhito are knights of the order of Charles III, but their wives have the order of Isabella. They both received it in 2008 (after 2002 reform), and on Juan Carlos' second visit to their country.

Kingen 11-17-2021 02:30 PM

A bit weird that Prince Daniel gets a lower order than some Court officials. However, this is not everything. With the times he will get another one.

And it must be a bit fun for Queen Silvia to receive a Royal Order, that can't be often anymore.

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Somebody 11-17-2021 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingen (Post 2437975)
A bit weird that Prince Daniel gets a lower order than some Court officials. However, this is not everything. With the times he will get another one.

And it must be a bit fun for Queen Silvia to receive a Royal Order, that can't be often anymore.

Sent from my SM-A725F using The Royals Community mobile app

That's indeed the weirdest part: awarding Daniel as spouse of the heir a lower order than Fredrik Wersäll, Marshall of the King (since 3 years), and Baroness Kirstine von Blixen-Finecke, Mistress of the Robes (since almost 6 years).

An Ard Ri 11-17-2021 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somebody (Post 2437977)
That's indeed the weirdest part: awarding Daniel as spouse of the heir a lower order than Fredrik Wersäll, Marshall of the King (since 3 years), and Baroness Kirstine von Blixen-Finecke, Mistress of the Robes (since almost 6 years).

I know even the Dukes of Sussex and York both received the Order of Isabella the Catholic in 2017.

lula 11-17-2021 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri (Post 2437980)
I know even the Dukes of Sussex and York both received the Order of Isabella the Catholic in 2017.

They received the Commendation which is one rank less than Grand Cross.

I repeat that this exchange is agreed, so it will be necessary to see what the Swedes grant. I do not know what categories the high positions of the Swedish Court have, but in Spain the Head of the House of the King has a rank equal to that of a Minister of the Government.

Mbruno 11-17-2021 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri (Post 2437980)
I know even the Dukes of Sussex and York both received the Order of Isabella the Catholic in 2017.


But, as pointed out before by Lula, the Dukes of Sussex and York got only the Encomienda de Número, which is approximately equivalent to the grade of Knight Commander in the UK. If they had been given the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit, it would have been a higher award in my opinion as, at least in the British order of precedence, a Knight Grand Cross outranks a Knight Commander, even when the former belongs to a lower order than the latter.


As Lula also pointed out, the Order of Isabella the Catholic is normally awarded observing diplomatic reciprocity. It is customary on state visits for the Spanish government to award it to diplomats, government officials and, in this case, members of the Royal Court of the visited country, expecting in return a reciprocal award to Spanish officials (which, in the case of Sweden, would be the Order of the Polar Star). As for the royals, Queen Letizia, I assume, will get the Order of Seraphim, the reciprocal of which would be Queen Silvia being awarded the Order of Charles III. The decorations awarded to Prince Daniel, Prince Carl Philip and Princess Sofia are being given out, on the other hand, with no reciprocal award in return really, which is actually a sign of courtesy extended to the Swedish RF. At least, that is how I see it.

Stefan 11-17-2021 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 2437992)

As Lula also pointed out, the Order of Isabella the Catholic is normally awarded observing diplomatic reciprocity. It is customary on state visits for the Spanish government to award it to diplomats, government officials and, in this case, members of the Royal Court of the visited country, expecting in return a reciprocal award to Spanish officials (which, in the case of Sweden, would be the Order of the Polar Star). As for the royals, Queen Letizia, I assume, will get the Order of Seraphim, the reciprocal of which would be Queen Silvia being awarded the Order of Charles III. The decorations awarded to Prince Daniel, Prince Carl Philip and Princess Sofia are being given out, on the other hand, with no reciprocal award in return really, which is actually a sign of courtesy extended to the Swedish RF. At least, that is how I see it.


But then Queen Sofia got the highest swedish order already at her State Visit to Sweden however Queen Silvia did not get the highest spanish Order.
And sometime ago it was mentioned that usually the visiting country awards more Order then country which is visited.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingen (Post 2437975)

And it must be a bit fun for Queen Silvia to receive a Royal Order, that can't be often anymore.

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She also has no british Royal Order as Queen Elizabeth II. doesn't bestow Orders on foreign Queen Consorts. Perhaps there is a chance that this gets changed in the next reign which actually is overdue.

Tatiana Maria 11-17-2021 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lula (Post 2437988)
I repeat that this exchange is agreed, so it will be necessary to see what the Swedes grant.

The Spanish heiress does not have a spouse and will not be taking part in the state visit, so I don't think the exchange will shine any light on the reasons why Prince Daniel was treated as equal in rank to Prince Carl Philip and Princess Sofia rather than equal to the Crown Princess.

lula 11-17-2021 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 2437995)
But then Queen Sofia got the highest swedish order already at her State Visit to Sweden however Queen Silvia did not get the highest spanish Order.
And sometime ago it was mentioned that usually the visiting country awards more Order then country which is visited.

Queen Silvia received the highest distinction of that time for a woman. Until then only Queen Sofia exceptionally, and Juliana and Margrethe as Heads of State had received the Order of Charles III.

The Order of Charles III was only for men, for women there was the Order of Queen María Luisa, but with the restoration of democracy the order of María Luisa was not recovered and women were given the Order of Isabella, until the regulations of the order of Charless III were modified. . For example, the infantas did not receive the order of Charles III until 1988.

An Ard Ri 11-17-2021 04:18 PM

Hopefully queen Letizia will receive The Order of Seraphim.

Stefan 11-17-2021 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lula (Post 2438000)
Queen Silvia received the highest distinction of that time for a woman. Until then only Queen Sofia exceptionally, and Juliana and Margrethe as Heads of State had received the Order of Charles III.

The Order of Charles III was only for men, for women there was the Order of Queen María Luisa, but with the restoration of democracy the order of María Luisa was not recovered and women were given the Order of Isabella, until the regulations of the order of Charless III were modified. . For example, the infantas did not receive the order of Charles III until 1988.


I know but then Queen Sofia should also only have gotten the Order of the Polar Star and not the Seraphim.

Duc_et_Pair 11-17-2021 04:28 PM

It is really very strange that HRH Prince Prince Daniel of Sweden gets a lower order than a Miss Máxima Zorreguieta Cerruti who was "just" the fiancée to the Prince of Orange...

Look at this picture: three members "lower" in status than Daniel but nevertheless with the Orden Isabel la Católica: picture

This is really most remarkable because when Victoria is Queen, the Consorts usually get the Orden Carlos III. So Daniel would then skip the "Isabel" or receives it as a Consort which is lower than Claus, Henrik, Bernhard, Philip, etc.

Mary-Rose 11-17-2021 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2438007)
It is really very strange that HRH Prince Prince Daniel of Sweden gets a lower order than a Miss Máxima Zorreguieta Cerruti who was "just" the fiancée to the Prince of Orange...

Look at this picture: three members "lower" in status than Daniel but nevertheless with the Orden Isabel la Católica: picture

This is really most remarkable because when Victoria is Queen, the Consorts usually get the Orden Carlos III. So Daniel would then skip the "Isabel" or receives it as a Consort which is lower than Claus, Henrik, Bernhard, Philip, etc.

Even after Lulas Explanation it seems "unfair" Daniel will not receive the higher order.. For your picture, I think Margriet and Peter received the Order already in 1980 when they had a different Order Policy.. It will be interesting to see If Mary might receive the same Order as Daniel and Frederik the same as Victoria, Of course just if there is an state visit in Margrethe reign.. In that case Benedikte has an higher order then Mary, she already has the Isabella Order..

lula 11-17-2021 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 2438004)
I know but then Queen Sofia should also only have gotten the Order of the Polar Star and not the Seraphim.

No, because both received the highest decoration that the country gave according to their rank at that moment. It was impossible for Silvia to receive the order of Charles III as it was impossible for her to receive the Golden Fleece.

Regarding Daniel's order, you are focusing this decision on the Spanish, when both countries have agreed on the exchange. In the case of countries that give several decorations and not the same to the whole family, Victoria and Daniel do not receive the same decoration, and Daniel receives the same as his brother-in-law. So it seems that this is a common pattern in Sweden.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ily_by_country

Somebody 11-17-2021 05:55 PM

I can find only one such example from a republic (when Victoria already had an order and Daniel not yet - taking place only seven months after their wedding; those with order (Victoria, CG and Silvia) got a higher one, the others (Daniel and CP) got the one that the others had previously). I don't think we can take that as a general rule.

Moreover, you seem to suggest that Sweden can order Spain to hand out specific orders. While I am sure some consultations are taking place, that doesn't mean that this was Sweden's preference.

Mbruno 11-17-2021 06:03 PM

I don’t think the situations of Spain and Sweden are directly comparable in this case. Currently the King of Sweden has only two orders to bestow; the Order of the Seraphim and the Order of the Polar Star, and, according to regulations, the Order of the Seraphim can be awarded only to Heads of State or people of equivalent rank. King Carl Gustaf already stretches the rules by awarding the Seraphim to consorts and even to Crown Princes.

JR76 11-17-2021 08:27 PM

As was discussed on the forums a few days ago in the thread about precedence Daniel at the moment seems to be the lowest ranking (male?) member of the Swedish Royal family. If that is the case he is awarded his order correctly according to his rank.

Stefan 11-18-2021 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 2438027)
I don’t think the situations of Spain and Sweden are directly comparable in this case. Currently the King of Sweden has only two orders to bestow; the Order of the Seraphim and the Order of the Polar Star, and, according to regulations, the Order of the Seraphim can be awarded only to Heads of State or people of equivalent rank. King Carl Gustaf already stretches the rules by awarding the Seraphim to consorts and even to Crown Princes.


One can also say the King of Sweden is more generous in awarding Orders then the King of Spain who has more Orders to bestow.

For example i noticed that King Felipe was already bestowed the Order of the Seraphim in 1991 (don't know which occasion) but CP Victopria still has no spanish Order.

LadyFinn 11-18-2021 02:58 AM

Beridna Högvakten (The Mounted Guard) at its website:

A new chance to see our nice horses in a cortege.
TM King Felipe VI and Queen Letizia of Spain pay a state visit to Sweden on 24–25 November 2021 at the invitation of H.M. The King.
The cortege from The Royal Stables to the Royal Palace on Wednesday 24 November, around 11.40.
Statsbesök 24 november – Beridna Högvakten

Duc_et_Pair 11-19-2021 08:20 AM

It is true that the Heirs already receive Sweden's highest Order (Kungliga Serafimerorden) but there is still a difference:

Sovereigns usually have the Serafimerorden with collar: picture.

Heirs usually have the Serafimerorden without collar: picture.

So Don Felipe de Borbón will receive the collar belonging said Order he already wears.




----



Then about the discrimination of Prince Daniel by King Felipe, not awarding him the Orden Isabel la Católica.

I found out that Prince Consorts not always have the Seraphim, see Prince Claus: picture but another Prince Consort did receive the Seraphim: picture.

So the Swedes themselves are not consistent in policy towards Consorts, so to see.

Mbruno 11-19-2021 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2438349)
It is true that the Heirs already receive Sweden's highest Order (Kungliga Serafimerorden) but there is still a difference:

Sovereigns usually have the Serafimerorden with collar: picture.

Heirs usually have the Serafimerorden without collar: picture.

So Don Felipe de Borbón will receive the collar belonging said Order he already wears.




Yes, that is correct and, I suspect, a recent innovation that in practice has created two de facto grades for the Order of the Seraphim: Knight with Collar and Knight.

Originally, and the Swedish experts here can either confirm or deny it, I believe all Knights of the Seraphim were supposed to receive the collar, as the Knights of the Garter, the Knights of the Thistle, or the Knights of the Golden Fleece.

Maybe the change began when women were admitted as "Members" (term used for ladies and clergymen, instead of "Knight"). Queen Beatrix, however, and other female Heads of State now have the Collar too, but female members of the Royal Family like Queen Silvia do not. Prince Carl Philip has the Collar, which he wore at Victoria's wedding, but does Victoria herself have it? Her coat of arms shows the collar, but heraldic representations are not always reliable.

LadyFinn 11-19-2021 10:53 AM

The Order of the Seraphim
The collar can be awarded to Knights (and Members) of the Order of the Seraphim as a special honor and is not automatically included in the grant. It can, for example, be awarded to a head of state during a second state visit, if the head of state has already received the Order of Seraphim.
Serafimerorden - Sveriges Kungahus

In english version
The Collar of the Order is only bestowed as a mark of special distinction.
The Order of the Seraphim - Sveriges Kungahus

Tarja Halonen, the President of Finland, at a state visit to Sweden in 2000
Image Upper.com - Free Image Hosting - View Image
At a visit in 2009
Image Upper.com - Free Image Hosting - View Image

Tatiana Maria 11-19-2021 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lula (Post 2438012)
Regarding Daniel's order, you are focusing this decision on the Spanish, when both countries have agreed on the exchange. In the case of countries that give several decorations and not the same to the whole family, Victoria and Daniel do not receive the same decoration, and Daniel receives the same as his brother-in-law. So it seems that this is a common pattern in Sweden.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ily_by_country

I don't think there was any suggestion of disagreements or a lack of consultations, but only by focusing on Spanish precedents can we determine whether the pattern is "Swedish" or "Spanish".

It would not be surprising if, as you suggest, the King of Sweden directed the King of Spain to accord the crown princess's consort a lower-ranked order. As discussed in the below thread, King Carl XVI Gustaf accords the crown princess's consort a lower rank than the crown princess's younger siblings at the Swedish court (which is not the practice for other European consorts, male or female).

https://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...ml#post2437248

Mbruno 11-20-2021 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria (Post 2438396)
I don't think there was any suggestion of disagreements or a lack of consultations, but only by focusing on Spanish precedents can we determine whether the pattern is "Swedish" or "Spanish".

It would not be surprising if, as you suggest, the King of Sweden directed the King of Spain to accord the crown princess's consort a lower-ranked order. As discussed in the below thread, King Carl XVI Gustaf accords the crown princess's consort a lower rank than the crown princess's younger siblings at the Swedish court (which is not the practice for other European consorts, male or female).

https://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...ml#post2437248


Princess Maxima for example, as the consort of the Prince of Orange, was not treated equally as her husband by King Carl Gustaf: she got the Grand Cross of the Order of the Polar Star while Willem-Alexander received the Order of the Seraphim (without collar) and Queen Beatrix obviously got the Order of the Seraphim with collar. But Maxima got the same order and the same grade within that order as Princess Margriet and Pieter van Vollenhoven (also Commanders Grand Cross of the Order of the Polar Star).

Because King Felipe has more orders to bestow than King Carl Gustaf, he can stratify further the awards. Looking at the Spanish orders bestowed on the Swedish royals, we have
  1. The King of Sweden: the Grand Cross with Collar of the Order of Charles III ( the highest civil order decoration in Spain) and, later, the Order of the Golden Fleece (mirroring Queen Elizabeth's policy in the UK of awarding the Order of the Garter to European monarchs after first awarding them the Royal Victorian Chain for example).
  2. The Queen consort: the Grand Cross (without collar) of the Order of Charles III (highest award now available to the consort of a King).
  3. The Crown Princess: the Grand Cross (without collar) of the Order of Isabella the Catholic (highest award normally bestowed on a Crown Prince , as the collar is awarded only to Heads of State, e.g. presidents of republics like Sergio Mattarella in the recent Italian state visit).
  4. The consort of the Crown Princess, the King's younger son and the King's younger son's spouse: the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit (they are being treated as being of the same rank, and lower than the former, as King Carl Gustaf treated Princess Maxima, Princess Margriet and Peter van Vollenhoven).

Looking at it this way, it seems pretty reasonable to me. A possible alternative would have been to raise Victoria as CP to the same rank as he Queen consort (i.e. Grand Cross without collar of the Order of Charles III), as it was done in the case of the Prince of Wales or CP Haakon, which would leave room for Daniel to receive a higher order. But, even in that scenario, which has not been the recent Spanish practice, Daniel would still have gotten a lower award than his wife, just as Mette-Marit for example received the Grand Cross of Isabella the Catholic (lower, therefore, than Haakon's decoration and, most importantly, the same award as Princess Astrid's).

On the issue of precedence, again the Duke of Edinburgh held the highest position in the male order of precedence (below his wife only) when Elizabeth II became queen, but I am not sure if that was true when King George VI was still alive. Did the Duke of Edinburgh, as Princess Elizabeth's husband, outrank for example the Duke of Gloucester (the King's brother) when not accompanied by his wife?

Blog Real 11-21-2021 05:25 AM

Official program of the visit:

23/11/2021
Quote:

At noon, the Kings who will travel accompanied by the Minister of Foreign Affairs, European Union and Cooperation, José Manuel Albares, will be dismissed from the State Pavilion of the Adolfo Suárez Madrid Barajas Airport.

In the afternoon, Don Felipe and Doña Letizia will receive the Spanish community residing in Sweden at the Spanish Embassy in Stockholm.
24/11/2021
Quote:

The following day, the official welcome ceremony will take place at the Royal Palace in Stockholm. In the afternoon, the Kings will go to the Nobel Museum where they will tour the exhibition “Synopsis. Art and science of Spain. From Ramón y Cajal to our days ”, an exhibition to disseminate the work of Spanish scientists that takes as its starting point the drawings of neurons by Nobel Prize winner Ramón y Cajal.

Later, Don Felipe will visit the Swedish Parliament where he will meet with his president and Doña Letizia, accompanied by the Queen of Sweden, the Karolinska University Hospital.

In the middle of the afternoon, his Majesty the King will hold a meeting with the Prime Minister of Sweden. Late in the day, the Kings of Sweden will host a dinner in honor of Their Majesties the Kings.
25/11/2021
Quote:

The day of Thursday, 25 will begin with a meeting of Don Felipe with businessmen and the inauguration of a Business Seminar. At mid-morning, the King accompanied by the King of Sweden will visit the Royal Institute of Technology KTH, with content oriented towards sustainable, intelligent and safe mobility of people and goods in a post-pandemic scenario.

For her part, Doña Letizia will visit the Bernadotte Library in Stockholm's Royal Palace, where the promotion of Spanish and Swedish languages will take place, with the collaboration of the Cervantes Institute and the Swedish Institute.

At noon, the Kings will attend the lunch offered by the president of the Citizen Council and the mayor of Stockholm in her honor. Next, Don Felipe will visit the Royal Swedish Academy of Engineering Sciences.

A reception hosted by Their Majesties the Kings in honor of Their Majesties the Kings of Sweden will bring the state visit to an end.
Source: casareal.es

Where will King Felipe VI and Queen Letizia be staying during the state visit?

lula 11-21-2021 05:59 AM

The Spanish embassy in Sweden is located at Byströms Villa. This villa was a royal residence, Prince Carl and Princess Ingeborg (and their daughters Martha, future princess of Norway, and Astrid, future queen of Belgium) lived in this house which was later bought by King Alfonso XIII. So it is an embassy with royal history.

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystr%C3%B6ms_villa
https://svenskamagasinet.nu/artikel/...ens-sedan-1928
https://friendlysocietyblog.wordpres...rens-residens/

Stefan 11-21-2021 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blog Real (Post 2438709)
Where will King Felipe VI and Queen Letizia be staying during the state visit?


Probably in the State Guest Appartements at the Royal Palace of Stockholm

maria-olivia 11-21-2021 06:57 AM

Is the Order of Charles III (jellow) higher as the Order of Isabella la Catolica (light blue)?
The President of Italy and his Daughter received the Yellow one and Carla Sarkozy the pale blue Sash. It is confused to me !

Duc_et_Pair 11-21-2021 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maria-olivia (Post 2438719)
Is the Order of Charles III (jellow) higher as the Order of Isabella la Catolica (light blue)?
The President of Italy and his Daughter received the Yellow one and Carla Sarkozy the pale blue Sash. It is confused to me !

It is the other way round: Carlos III is light blue and Isabel is yellow.

Stefan 11-21-2021 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maria-olivia (Post 2438719)
Is the Order of Charles III (jellow) higher as the Order of Isabella la Catolica (light blue)?
The President of Italy and his Daughter received the Yellow one and Carla Sarkozy the pale blue Sash. It is confused to me !




Yes the order of Carlos III. is hogher then Isabel the catholic. But you have mixed the colours as Caros III. is blue/white and Isabel is yellow/white.
Interesting that Carla Brunio got the order of CArlos III. Was that always the case during Kung Carlos reign or was thatn an exception?. Because i think at recent State Visits from republic the wives of presidents usually got Isabel the catholic.

Kingen 11-21-2021 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 2438712)
Probably in the State Guest Appartements at the Royal Palace of Stockholm

That is a fair guess, but we don't know really. Since the restauration of the west facade towards the Outer Courtyard, where the State Guest Apartments are located, we haven't seen any pictures from the Apartments.

Usually during an incoming state visit in Sweden, the group picture is taken in the Melager Salon in the State Guest Apartments. The last picture taken there was at the Canadian state visit in February 2017. For the next incoming state visit in January 2018 from Iceland, and since then, the group pictures have been taken in the Pillar Hall at the Bernadotte Apartments.

The reason for this change is unknown, at least to my knowledge. But I guess that it depends on the restauration of the facade just outside the windows of the Apartment. The restauration of the west facade have been done in two parts, starting in 2017, and the parts outside the State Guest Apartments started in 2018. The work was completed this week, making the entire facade and Outer Courtyard completed.

For that reason I don't think that any guests have stayed there since the Presidential Couple of Iceland, which necessarily didn't stayed there either. Where the incoming guests have stayed in this period is unclear, maybe in another Apartment at the Royal Palace, at Drottningholm Palace, Grand Hotel or their Embassy/residence?

That said, we have to wait and see where the King and Queen of Spain stay during the visit to Stockholm, as the work now is completed.

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maria-olivia 11-21-2021 08:12 AM

Thanks Stefan.
Some Guests are wearing the Collar with the Sash , others only the Collar. What is the way to wear it.

Mbruno 11-21-2021 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maria-olivia (Post 2438730)
Thanks Stefan.
Some Guests are wearing the Collar with the Sash , others only the Collar. What is the way to wear it.

In my very humble opinion, the collar should not be worn with the sash of the same order. King Albert II always wore collars correctly, i.e. either the collar alone (with no sash), or with a sash of a different order.

Having said that, many dignitaries wear both the sash and the collar of the same order simultaneously nowadays, especially presidents of republics, like Signore Mattarella on his recent state visit to Spain (and literally all Latin American presidents I can recall during state visits to Spain). Even King Juan Carlos did it at Prince Felipe's wedding where he wore the sash of the collar of the Order of Charles III with the collar itself of the same order (plus the collar of the Golden Fleece). That was somewhat weird. Note that King Carl Gustaf wore the collars of the Seraphim and of the order of Vasa (I think?) at CP Victoria's wedding with no sash.

In the UK, where all orders of chivalry actually have a collar, the collar is, however, worn only on very special days. Queen Elizabeth II e.g. only wears the Garter collar on Garter Day, or for the state opening of Parliament.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maria-olivia (Post 2438719)
Is the Order of Charles III (jellow) higher as the Order of Isabella la Catolica (light blue)?
The President of Italy and his Daughter received the Yellow one and Carla Sarkozy the pale blue Sash. It is confused to me !

It is indeed a little confusing. Normally, on a first state visit, the King of Spain awards the collar of the order of Isabella the Catholic (yellow sash) to presidents and the grand cross of the same order to first ladies. On a second state visit, they may be both upgraded to the order of Charles III (light blue sash). European monarchs and queens/princes consort, however, normally get the order of Charles III (respectively with and without collar) right on their first state visit; sometimes the same distinction is also accorded to some presidents like the French president for example (?). European monarchs subsequently normally receive the order of the Golden Fleece, but that honor is extended only to the king or reigning queen, not to consorts.

The current official order of precedence in Spain no longer accords precedence based on nobility and knighthood as in the UK (only the King and the Queen consort, the Prince or Princess of Asturias and his/her consort, and the Infantes or Infantas have official precedence), but the precedence of the orders is in practice implied by the seniority (year of order creation) and the conditions for award (e.g. how exclusive the order or a grade therein is). Based on those implicit criteria, the hierarchy for the orders that are relevant to the current discussion is (with year of creation under parenthesis):

1. Order of the Golden Fleece (1430)
2. Order of Charles III (1771)
3. Order of Isabella the Catholic (1815)
4. Order of Civil Merit (1926)

Hans-Rickard 11-21-2021 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blog Real (Post 2438709)
Where will King Felipe VI and Queen Letizia be staying during the state visit?

During the last state visits, the guests has been staying at either in a Suite at Grand Hotel, or at the residence of their Ambassador...

Don’t know if the Guest Apartments at the Royal Palace
is ready yet... It has to my knowledge not been used since 2017 due to ongoing restoration work

wartenberg7 11-21-2021 11:01 AM

Royal (and imperial japanese) state visits included a trip in the royal barge "Vasaorden" to the Stockholm town hall - I guess this this won´t be done this time?

Hans-Rickard 11-21-2021 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wartenberg7 (Post 2438751)
Royal (and imperial japanese) state visits included a trip in the royal barge "Vasaorden" to the Stockholm town hall - I guess this this won´t be done this time?

It hasn’t been done on any state visit since Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko visited in 2000, so not likely.

The royal barge is used very rarely as it takes a lot restoration work and training of a large crew to get it ready. Last time was at Victoria and Daniel’s wedding 11 years ago.

wartenberg7 11-21-2021 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans-Rickard (Post 2438752)
It hasn’t been done on any state visit since Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko visited in 2000, so not likely.

The royal barge is used very rarely as it takes a lot restoration work and training of a crew to get it ready. Last time was at Victoria and Daniel’s wedding 11 years ago.

Yes, I couldn´t recall which was the last time, Japan or Belgium. It´s a pity really that these days everything seems to be considered too costly, too much of an effort...

LadyFinn 11-21-2021 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wartenberg7 (Post 2438751)
Royal (and imperial japanese) state visits included a trip in the royal barge "Vasaorden" to the Stockholm town hall - I guess this this won´t be done this time?

The Royal Barge Vasaorden hasn't been used after Victoria and Daniel's wedding.
The Armed Forces announced in August that the Royal Barge Vasaorden is in for a thorough renovation
https://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...ml#post2421119

lula 11-21-2021 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 2438723)
Yes the order of Carlos III. is hogher then Isabel the catholic. But you have mixed the colours as Caros III. is blue/white and Isabel is yellow/white.
Interesting that Carla Brunio got the order of CArlos III. Was that always the case during Kung Carlos reign or was thatn an exception?. Because i think at recent State Visits from republic the wives of presidents usually got Isabel the catholic.

Sarkozy had already received the Grand Cross of Charles III as Minister of the Interior of France, so when he traveled to Spain as President he received the Collar of Charles III and his consort the Grand Cross. He also received the Golden Fleece, being one of the two foreign politicians to whom Juan Carlos awarded it.

He is an exceptional case. For many years the collaboration of France in the persecution of the ETA terrorists was little, and it changed with the arrival of Sarkozy to the Ministry of the Interior. Since then and during his different political mandates, collaboration with Spain against terrorism was very important, and for this he was exceptionally recognized.

Duc_et_Pair 11-21-2021 11:38 AM

The non-use of the Vasaorden looks the same as the royal barge in the Netherlands: restored into excellent state but when will it ever, ever be used? The State Visits tend to become shorter and shorter, with more business networking in it and less protocol or ceremonial events.

Stefan 11-21-2021 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2438759)
The non-use of the Vasaorden looks the same as the royal barge in the Netherlands: restored into excellent state but when will it ever, ever be used? The State Visits tend to become shorter and shorter, with more business networking in it and less protocol or ceremonial events.

At last the Vasaorden was used at the Wedding of the Crown Princess. So probably it wall also be used when Princess Estelle marries, but hopefully we will not have to wait so long.

Hans-Rickard 11-21-2021 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 2438760)
At last the Vasaorden was used at the Wedding of the Crown Princess. So probably it wall also be used when Princess Estelle marries, but hopefully we will not have to wait so long.

I sincerely hope the Royal Family, or at least The King and Queen will take a tour with the ”Vasaorden” during the Golden Jubilée celebrations in 2023.

The King becomes the first swedish monarch ever to reach 50 years on the throne (and the royal barge itself turns 100 years old), so there should be no reasons to plan for a low budget party ;)

Stefan 11-22-2021 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans-Rickard (Post 2438819)
I sincerely hope the Royal Family, or at least The King and Queen will take a tour with the ”Vasaorden” during the Golden Jubilée celebrations in 2023.

The King becomes the first swedish monarch ever to reach 50 years on the throne (and the royal barge itself turns 100 years old), so there should be no reasons to plan for a low budget party ;)

Would be nice but if a grerat restoration of it is needed it could that it is not availible in 2023.

Duc_et_Pair 11-22-2021 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans-Rickard (Post 2438819)
I sincerely hope the Royal Family, or at least The King and Queen will take a tour with the ”Vasaorden” during the Golden Jubilée celebrations in 2023.

The King becomes the first swedish monarch ever to reach 50 years on the throne (and the royal barge itself turns 100 years old), so there should be no reasons to plan for a low budget party ;)


Wow I would never have guessed the Vasaorden is younger than 100 years! It is very baroque.

An Ard Ri 11-22-2021 04:14 AM

Looking forward to seeing Felipe and Letizia in the carriage procession as they wouldn't be used to such pomp in Spain.

LadyFinn 11-22-2021 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2438853)
Wow I would never have guessed the Vasaorden is younger than 100 years! It is very baroque.

The original royal barge was destroyed in a fire in 1921 and a replica was built in 1923.

King Carl Gustaf, queen Silvia, crown princess Victoria and prince Daniel got today a briefing prior to the state visit from the Ministry for Foreign Affairs.

JR76 11-22-2021 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2438853)
Wow I would never have guessed the Vasaorden is younger than 100 years! It is very baroque.

The original Vasaorden was built in 1774 and destroyed by fire in 1921. The current boat is an exact replica of the original. As other posters have stated it's currently being renovated and the linked article from the Armed forces says that it will be done by 2023. One of the main causes for the need of repairs are said to be because it's used to little.
The following link about the renovation has been posted before, but seems to have passed some members by.

https://www.forsvarsmakten.se/sv/akt...den-renoveras/

iceflower 11-23-2021 07:14 AM

King Felipe and Queen Letizia have departed from Madrid Airport:


** gtresnews gallery ** rex gallery ** ppe gallery **


** gettyimages: ESP: Spanish Royals Depart To Sweden ** hola article **

Mbruno 11-23-2021 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceflower (Post 2439040)
King Felipe and Queen Letizia have departed from Madrid Airport:


** gtresnews gallery **


The military honors due to the holder of the Spanish Crown when departing for or arriving from official visits overseas are described in the Royal Decree 684/2010 , see Chapter 2 (Al Rey, a la Familia Real y a los Infantes de España).

Blog Real 11-23-2021 08:25 AM

King Felipe VI and Queen Letizia are fired with honors from the Adolfo Suárez Madrid Barajas Airport.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYHYqBh7D44

LadyFinn 11-23-2021 09:46 AM

Margareta Thorgren said to Svensk Damtidning that Felipe and Letizia are staying at the Grand Hotel. And that were will not be any masks at the gala dinner. But due to the pandemic there wll be less guests at the dinner.
https://www.svenskdam.se/kungligt/sm...ckholm/8049685

The court at its social media
Tomorrow, TM The King and Queen of Spain a two-day state visit to Sweden.
In 2005, the Spanish royal couple, who were then Prince and Princess of Asturias, paid an official visit to Sweden. They were also guests at the Crown Princess Couple's wedding in 2010.
The last incoming Spanish state visit took place in 1979 when Spain's then royal couple, King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia, visited Sweden. The King and Queen of Sweden then paid a state visit to Madrid in 1983.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CWnpgkiKz3I/

On November 24 and 25, Sweden will be visited by the king and queen of Spain. This means that traffic and accessibility to certain parts of Stockholm's inner city will be affected.
On Wednesday, a cortege with horses goes from Hovstallet to the Royal Palace, which means that the traffic along the prepared cortege route at 11:00-12:00 can be stopped completely. The route is: Strandvägen, Hamngatan, Kungsträdgårdsgatan, Strömgatan, Norrbro, Skeppsbron and Slottsbacken.
The police authority has decided to camera monitor parts of Stockholm's inner city, with the help of UAS, Unmanned Aerial Systems, also called drones.
Camera surveillance with UAS may, if necessary, take place at locations within the recording area shown on the map.
The need for UAS camera surveillance is judged to exist in order to prevent or detect disturbances of public order and safety and to limit the effects of such disturbances.
Innerstadstrafiken påverkas av statsbesök från Spanien _ Polismyndigheten

AnaC 11-23-2021 10:17 AM

Thanks LadyFinn. I thought they could be staying at the Spanish Embassy since they are hosting a reception later today and on Thrusday in honor of the Swedish King and Queen.

Somebody 11-23-2021 10:55 AM

I was a bit surprised that the king and queen start the state visit with a reception for Spaniards in Sweden - even before they have been officially welcomed by their hosts, which is scheduled to take place tomorrow.

lula 11-23-2021 12:51 PM

Meeting with the Spanish residents in Sweden at the Embassy of Spain

https://twitter.com/Villarejo/status...01327610220552

https://images.gtresnews.com/es/featu...CTUALITY_TODOS
https://www.hola.com/realeza/casa_es...estado-suecia/
https://www.semana.es/casas-reales/f...123-002418750/
https://okdiario.com/look/casa-real/...344404/fotos/3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9Qjr38ca-4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyPsQpOzU0w

Mbruno 11-23-2021 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyFinn (Post 2439069)
The court at its social media
Tomorrow, TM The King and Queen of Spain a two-day state visit to Sweden.
In 2005, the Spanish royal couple, who were then Prince and Princess of Asturias, paid an official visit to Sweden. They were also guests at the Crown Princess Couple's wedding in 2010.
The last incoming Spanish state visit took place in 1979 when Spain's then royal couple, King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia, visited Sweden. The King and Queen of Sweden then paid a state visit to Madrid in 1983.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CWnpgkiKz3I/

On November 24 and 25, Sweden will be visited by the king and queen of Spain. This means that traffic and accessibility to certain parts of Stockholm's inner city will be affected.
On Wednesday, a cortege with horses goes from Hovstallet to the Royal Palace, which means that the traffic along the prepared cortege route at 11:00-12:00 can be stopped completely. The route is: Strandvägen, Hamngatan, Kungsträdgårdsgatan, Strömgatan, Norrbro, Skeppsbron and Slottsbacken.
The police authority has decided to camera monitor parts of Stockholm's inner city, with the help of UAS, Unmanned Aerial Systems, also called drones.
Camera surveillance with UAS may, if necessary, take place at locations within the recording area shown on the map.
The need for UAS camera surveillance is judged to exist in order to prevent or detect disturbances of public order and safety and to limit the effects of such disturbances.
Innerstadstrafiken påverkas av statsbesök från Spanien _ Polismyndigheten


I am looking forward to the events tomorrow, especially considering that the last Spanish state visit to Sweden was, as the press release said, in 1979 (!) and the visit involves two major European royal houses.

Mary-Rose 11-23-2021 06:30 PM

Live stream for the Gala Dinner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2DkXTHGrVM

LadyFinn 11-24-2021 01:59 AM

Their Majesties King Felipe VI and Queen Letizia of Spain, together with Their Majesties King Carl XVI Gustav and Queen Silvia of Sweden, will receive a guided tour of the exhibition entitled Synapses: Science and Art in Spain, from Ramón y Cajal to the 21st Century. In addition to Cajal's drawings, the exhibition will feature works by a number of people who had contact with him, including poet Federico García Lorca and artist Salvador Dalí. It will also display works by five contemporary visual artists who have been strongly influenced by Cajal. These works are connected in various ways to international scientific projects.
Nobel Prize Museum _ Art and science meet when the Nobel Prize Museum displays Cajal’s nerve cell drawings

AnaC 11-24-2021 03:58 AM

Felipe VI: "Sweden, a world leader in innovation and research, should inspire us"

The King and Queen begin their 48-hour visit: "We want to contribute to promoting a greater Spanish business presence in Sweden"

Quote:

The King and Queen have started their State visit to Sweden this afternoon with a marked scientific and technological character, as Don Felipe himself recalled in his first speech before the Spanish community in the Scandinavian country.

In a meeting held at the residence of Ambassador Cristina Latorre, Felipe VI stressed that "Sweden, a world leader in innovation and research, should inspire us."
https://www.abc.es/espana/casa-real/...7_noticia.html

Blog Real 11-24-2021 04:24 AM

First photo of the Royal Palace in Stockholm, with the flags of Sweden and Spain, before the start of the state visit.
https://www.facebook.com/10004464387...9898911841568/


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