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Marengo 10-01-2020 02:42 PM

The Princess Delphine & Family, General News & Events Thread; 2020 -
 
The Princess Delphine & Family General News Thread


According to the RTBF (Walloon public television channel), Delphine BoŽl is now officially princess of Belgium.

The court in Brussels has decided that she will be princess of Belgium. The same goes for her children Josephine and Oscar, all with the prefix of Royal Highness. The judgement took place earlier than expected.

According to Het Gazet van Antwerpen her lawyer confirmed to them that she 'will receive a recognition of paternity, the last name of van Saksen-Coburg and the title of Princess of Belgium'. I have not seen the last name being confirmed by either the RTBF or the VRT but updates will surely follow soon.

According to newspaper 'De Standaard' it is still possible that King Albert will appeal against the judgement.

https://www.rtbf.be/info/belgique/de...ue?id=10598252

https://www.gva.be/cnt/dmf20201001_9...gie-meldt-rtbf

https://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/delph...nses~bacbbc01/

Edit I: the VRT now also claims that she can will get the last name of 'van Saxe-Coburg'.
Edit II: according to Wim Dehandschutter (Flemish royalty reporter) the children will continue to use the last name of their father, O'Hare.
Edit III: article in English can be found here: https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/b...gian-princess/


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The old thread about Delphine BoŽl can be found here.

Heavs 10-01-2020 02:45 PM

Wow. I suppose not unexpected after all the recent kerfuffle but still, wow.

S-C-G wouldn't have been a surprise at all.

Does it say anything about the supposed public life and privileges her lawyers were talking about before?

FŁrstin Taxis 10-01-2020 02:49 PM

Wheezing, so much for 'I only want him to recognize me :'( '
Welcome to the world, Princess Delphine, Princess Josephine and Prince Oscar :lol:

Tatiana Maria 10-01-2020 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heavs (Post 2345723)
Wow. I suppose not unexpected after all the recent kerfuffle but still, wow.

S-C-G wouldn't have been a surprise at all.

Yes. While it may seem unsurprising to readers not familiar with Belgian law, it must be underscored that this decision is a major break with the present laws of Belgium. Until now, titles of nobility (1) have been the prerogative of the King and Government, not the courts, and (2) have been transmissible only in legitimate male line, except when a special remainder is stipulated in the patent of creation.

https://diplomatie.belgium.be/en/ser...s/nobility/faq


Quote:

Does it say anything about the supposed public life and privileges her lawyers were talking about before?
My question as well. To be consistent with the arguments of Delphine's lawyers, will the court also order a dotation, a palace, and a formal role?

Is this decision open to be appealed by King Philippe and the Government (given that titles have, until now, been under their authority) or by King Albert?

Tatiana Maria 10-01-2020 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria (Post 2341769)
However, it is extremely ironic that many of the very same royal experts who most severely attack inheritance of royal and noble titles through female lines because it is "a breach with tradition" and "laws cannot change the fact that dynasties are determined by the father" are adamantly declaring that Delphine BoŽl deserves to be an HRH Princess of Belgium because "the times have changed" and "there is no law that explicitly forbids her from becoming one".

I am glad that, at least, the court has been more consistent than these "experts" by extending the titles through the female line to Delphine's children as well.

There are more questions I would appreciate the answers to, as I have not read all of the coverage of this decision:

1. What were the legal arguments applied by the court to reach its decision?

2. Why shouldn't the ruling apply to Delphine's husband as well, given that the spouses of Lorenz and Claire are HRH and Prince/ss of Belgium?

3. Why shouldn't the ruling also apply to Princess Astrid's grandchildren, Princess Anna Astrid and Prince Maximilian? (Anna Astrid was registered in her birth certificate as "Princess" but not "Princess of Belgium" or HRH, in accordance with King Philippe's interpretation of his own Royal Decree.)

Now that the court has apparently ruled that HRH and Prince/ss of Belgium are hereditary entitlements, rather than privileges granted or denied by the King's will, then I do not see any reason why Amedeo's children (and the future children of Maria Laura, Joachim, etc.) are not entitled to it.

leidi 10-01-2020 03:28 PM

My lord what a mess, thank you Albert for not acknowledging your daughter and now leaving this whole issue in the hands of your eldest son.
UGH.

acdc1 10-01-2020 03:45 PM

As someone who doesn't closely follow this family, was this the expected outcome of the announcement? Has there been previous cases where an illegitimate child is given HRH Prince/Princess titles that are hereditary? Are she and her children now in the line of succession?

Blog Real 10-01-2020 03:47 PM

And Delphine is now Princess of Belgium!
She just wanted to be recognized by her father, but after all she wanted more...

Tatiana Maria 10-01-2020 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acdc1 (Post 2345736)
As someone who doesn't closely this family, was this the expected outcome of the announcement? Has there been previous cases where an illegitimate child is given HRH Prince/Princess titles that are hereditary?

See the answer in post #4 above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acdc1 (Post 2345736)
Are she and her children now in the line of succession?

If the court accepted the arguments of Delphine's lawyers that she is entitled to the same privileges as her siblings, they should be in the line of succession, and Delphine should be entitled to a taxpayer-funded allowance, a taxpayer-funded residence, and an official public role representing the country.

An Ard Ri 10-01-2020 03:50 PM

Perhaps the king wants closure this has been going on for far too long but I did not expect to see a Princess Delphine of Belgium.

REAL COUNTESS 10-01-2020 03:54 PM

Well wonder if K Albert would do it again if he would sit on the Throne . How could he do this to his family. Sadly just because he was CP at the time? he sure did not think with his head between his shoulders. What a mess. So the Kings new/old sister will be at every function, Daddy Dearest at her side? Maybe the Judge wanted to teach him Albert a lesson. But I don't see how her children will be HRH as well. Now we have to see and wait. God help them all.

Marchesina 10-01-2020 03:56 PM

I did not expect this. At all. I had always thought that dynastic laws were above any national law.
Does HRH expects to have a dotation, a house (in Laken maybe) and official engagements too?
One may be born from a king but a royal is another thing and it is more and more rare to find these days...
I pity Philippe who has to deal with all that now when his father has most of his life to do it but never wanted to.

acdc1 10-01-2020 03:58 PM

So this means she’s going to join the family at every official function, have public/royal duties, and be a full-fledged member of the family? Did she have a relationship with her half-siblings and father at all? That will be so incredibly awkward, I’m rather shocked by this ruling.

Marengo 10-01-2020 04:00 PM

I am not sure if a dotation is likely. The 2014 law states that only the king and the heir will receive a dotation, with a temporary transition arrangement for Astrid and Laurent. As Delphine has nothing to transition from I am not sure how a dotation can be justified.

Michiru-Kaiou 10-01-2020 04:07 PM

I have to say, I am quite happy with this. I always thought this legitimacy thing is incredibly unfair and discriminatory, treating children born out of wedlock like dirt, like some shame that has to be hushed and covered up. Something unworthy of the 21st century. And I really hope this also means Belgium has a new 17th, 18th and 19th in line-of-succession.

Anyway, congratulations for this victory, Your Royal Highness!

best wishes Michiru

Tatiana Maria 10-01-2020 04:08 PM

The ruling of the court could have been a landmark decision in protection against discrimination, had it simply struck down the laws restricting the inheritance of titles of nobility to legitimate male lines.

Instead, by maintaining these laws (I assume) but making an exception for Delphine, it is simply a case of special treatment being granted to one person because of their royal blood, which can hardly be said to be modern.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 2341918)
The good thing about this case is that it will force the Belgian courts to settle once and for all what "Princes and princesses" mean in the context of the royal decrees of 1891, 1991 and 2015.

From what I gathered from press reports, Delphine's attorneys simply ignored those three words, even omitting them when they quoted from the decree. The court may have done the same.


Quote:

Originally Posted by leidi (Post 2345732)
My lord what a mess, thank you Albert for not acknowledging your daughter and now leaving this whole issue in the hands of your eldest son.
UGH.

Given King Philippe's years of moves to restrict titles, taxpayer funding, state housing, and public engagements, even for his own close family members with whom he has a personal relationship (and to the point where it reportedly sparked arguments between him and his sister and brother), I cannot imagine that he is pleased with this ruling.


Quote:

Originally Posted by REAL COUNTESS (Post 2345744)
But I don't see how her children will be HRH as well.

In the same way that she will be HRH: By the decision of the court.

crm2317 10-01-2020 04:08 PM

Iím not surprised she got the surname Saxe Coburg but I am totally shocked that she has been given titles! She is illegitimate and this doesnít change that!

An Ard Ri 10-01-2020 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria (Post 2345740)



If the court accepted the arguments of Delphine's lawyers that she is entitled to the same privileges as her siblings, they should be in the line of succession, and Delphine should be entitled to a taxpayer-funded allowance, a taxpayer-funded residence, and an official public role representing the country.

If accepted then Princess Delphine and her children would come after HRH Prince Aymeric in the line of succession.

ACO 10-01-2020 04:10 PM

Wow. This has the potential to change a lot of things for some other illegitimate people of royal families. This is definitely fascinating.

Tatiana Maria 10-01-2020 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michiru-Kaiou (Post 2345755)
I have to say, I am quite happy with this. I always thought this legitimacy thing is incredible unfair and discriminatory, treating children born out of wedlock like dirt, like some shame that has to be hushed and covered up. Something unworthy of the 21st century. And I really hope this also means Belgium has a new 17th, 18th and 19th in line-of-succession.

Anyway, congratulations for this victory, Your Royal Highness!

best wishes Michiru

I'm not sure how this is a victory for illegitimate children, given that (unless the early reports are incomplete) they continue to be barred by law from inheriting titles.

And given that all women are barred by law from transmitting their titles to their children (whether legitimate or illegitimate), why would your description of "treated like dirt" not apply to the children of noble women?


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