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-   -   Finding Freedom: Harry and Meghan and the Making of A Modern Royal Family (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f61/finding-freedom-harry-and-meghan-and-the-making-of-a-modern-royal-family-47438.html)

Denville 08-03-2020 10:57 AM

I believe that she is stubborn and wilful and so is Harry. So its essentially true.

ACO 08-03-2020 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denville (Post 2331876)
I believe that she is stubborn and wilful and so is Harry. So its essentially true.

I don’t disagree. Personally I think they all are which is likely why they clashed. Type A types butting heads. I do suspect William and Meghan never really got along. It happens.

Nico 08-03-2020 11:46 AM

I came across this sentence in an article, and i do think it summarizes well all the problematic :

"The Queen and the Royal Family have a sense of Duty, Harry and Meghan have a sense of Injustice"

Betsypaige 08-03-2020 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fem (Post 2331832)
Yes - the article is making it seem like William was in favour of the Sussexes having a bigger team around them, not actually going with an independent office at Windsor. But for me, it's a sensible middle between what the Sussexes wanted and working completely with BP's offices. If it's true, it's just making me like William even more, smart thinking on this one!

I completely agree, for me everything is in the details. It's just weird and not something one would think of while writing a book about the Sussexes, because it's actually not important at all in the grand scheme of things.

If that's not a pattern of behavior, I don't know what is. He didn't get what he wanted, so he left. And that's a shame, because the army time truly shaped Harry - he could've stayed longer.

I've always liked Harry but damn, his reputation (and people's opinion of him) is taking blow afer blow... And I'm guessing things won't get better after this book comes out.

Exactly...I think William is on the same late in many ways with his father and grandmother. Allowing Harry and Meghan to have their own “court” would have been a dangerous precedent...and it would have been a bad idea, period. These two are rogue, they know no boundaries, they want to do their own thing and they don’t respect the rules. The way they exited, and pretty much all of their behavior since, proves that the decision to not allow H and M their own “court” was a wise one.

Sadly, Harry has earned every bit of his poor reputation ...and he’s really inflicting this damage on himself.

Betsypaige 08-03-2020 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nico (Post 2331894)
I came across this sentence in an article, and i do think it summarizes well all the problematic :

"The Queen and the Royal Family have a sense of Duty, Harry and Meghan have a sense of Injustice"

Not a fan...I would change the second part to sense of Entitlement.

tausi 08-03-2020 12:39 PM

Generally, I believe William is very cautious on who he decides to trust. He has spoked about this before. I don't blame him. You have to earn his trust, and I imagine that added some tension to the group.

Meghan doing a Vanity Fair cover "Mad about Harry" even before marriage, I don't think that sat well with William. I imagine he likely became even more guarded. I would have been too, if I was in his position.

Denville 08-03-2020 12:49 PM

I think that William was worried that H was rushing with the relationship with Megan and just tried to suggest that he slow down. I didn't realise, I must admit how volatile H was.. but I think now that he was very up and down and desperate to find a wife and perhaps Will felt that this might make him too hasty to get married. And when he met Meg, I suspect taht William felt that she might not mean any harm but she wasn't all that well up on royal life and would find it hard to fit in and Harry might get caught in the middle.

Heavs 08-03-2020 01:01 PM

What he's alleged to have said is very mild to me. Who wouldn't be concerned about a sibling potentially rushing in to marriage during a long distance relationship where you're both on best behaviour for the short amount of time you spend together? Then add in the insanity of being a potential royal wife and Duchess without knowing much about it. All of which was echoed in the media and here at the time.

It's not like William didn't have personal experience about waiting despite the ever present Men in Grey Suits allegedly trying to organise a wedding the second they left uni.

We all get why they could wait very long but 18 months (possibly only a year if the "secret engagement" is true) and not living in the same country 90% of that time is not long in this situation. And that was partly borne out in the 18 months (1 year if excluding maternity leave and planning time) they gave it before fleeing the country.

acdc1 08-03-2020 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betsypaige (Post 2331905)
Exactly...I think William is on the same late in many ways with his father and grandmother. Allowing Harry and Meghan to have their own “court” would have been a dangerous precedent...and it would have been a bad idea, period. These two are rogue, they know no boundaries, they want to do their own thing and they don’t respect the rules. The way they exited, and pretty much all of their behavior since, proves that the decision to not allow H and M their own “court” was a wise one.

Sadly, Harry has earned every bit of his poor reputation ...and he’s really inflicting this damage on himself.

I do think that giving them their own Court would have been an unwise decision. What do you think they would have done had they be given their own court that would have made it so dangerous? Would it have given them more freedom to do what they wanted with fewer boundaries?

TLLK 08-03-2020 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Queen Claude (Post 2331747)
Here is what I am referencing:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...household.html


Although the headline states that William supported the Sussexes getting their own household, the detail of the article focuses more on William supporting the Sussexes getting a larger budget. This is from a podcast, I will try and locate a link to the podcast to see if that sheds more light.

I also believe that William was very supportive of the Sussexes having their own Instagram account.

carlota 08-03-2020 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heavs (Post 2331919)
We all get why they could wait very long but 18 months (possibly only a year if the "secret engagement" is true) and not living in the same country 90% of that time is not long in this situation. And that was partly borne out in the 18 months (1 year if excluding maternity leave and planning time) they gave it before fleeing the country.

the rapidity of how quickly events advanced between this two is quite surprising indeed:

June 2016: met, shortly after they began a relationship
August 2017: visited Botswana and Victoria Falls
September 2017: appeared together in public (some say they were already engaged at this point)
November 2017: engagement was announced
May 2018: marriage
October 2018: pregnancy announced; first overseas tour
May 2019: archie born
January 2020: announced that they were stepping back

so in 3.5 years, they went from being bachelors living in 2 opposite sides of the world doing completely different things with their lives, to them becoming husband and wife, meghan becoming royal, becoming parents... and then in less than 1.5 years after marriage leaving the RF. it's all rather puzzling when looked from the outside.

Alison H 08-03-2020 01:40 PM

I've known people in workplace situations act as if the end of the world was nigh because someone used a black biro instead of a blue biro, or stopped for a cup of tea at half 10 instead of 11 o'clock. Quite seriously. People are very resistant to change and anyone wanting to do things differently. Given time, maybe things could have been changed to suit Harry and Meghan, but they seem to have wanted to change everything in five minutes, in a very rigid and formal set-up, and been unwilling either to compromise or to go gradually.

Osipi 08-03-2020 01:50 PM

I don't think it was in any way a snub to H&M to not allow them to have their own court. There's a lot more involved in these movings and shakings that aren't immediately visible. It is my opinion that the moves are all part and parcel of a gradual transition in preparation for Charles' reign.

As Duke of Cornwall and, perhaps, Prince of Wales, William will need his own household, staff, offices as he moves into the position of heir to the throne. Even now, Charles' household is pretty much its own entity that works in conjunction with the "Firm" and BP.

Moving Harry and Meghan and their staff and offices to BP sets them up separately from William's household when Charles becomes king. As it is now, Harry depended on Charles' household for public and private funding. Should they have remained, when Charles becomes king, they would still be under Charles' wing in all respects. They would have been moved away from William's household sooner or later anyways. Its the natural progression of things.

None of the Queen's children other than Charles have their own households. Why should Harry be any different? its the way the "Firm" works and going against the "Firm" wanting one's own way in things just isn't going to happen. H&M tried hard to change things to suit themselves and how they wanted things to be. It didn't float and was rejected and they had the option then of toeing the line according to "Firm" operations or leave. They chose to leave. It was their choice. Whatever happens now after the split happens and they'll have to make the best of it. Sink or swim.

Family feuds, what someone "might" have said and "might" have done and who caused what and rehashing every little tidbit of palace gossip isn't going to change one little thing than give us all something to fill pages of posts with and a chance to character analyze every little move a royal made since they urped a burp that was heard around the world or flashed a wee bit of panty line. We are never really going to know the inner workings of the BRF's family dynamics or their innermost thoughts and feelings.

poppy7 08-03-2020 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alison H (Post 2331931)
I've known people in workplace situations act as if the end of the world was nigh because someone used a black biro instead of a blue biro, or stopped for a cup of tea at half 10 instead of 11 o'clock. Quite seriously. People are very resistant to change and anyone wanting to do things differently. Given time, maybe things could have been changed to suit Harry and Meghan, but they seem to have wanted to change everything in five minutes, in a very rigid and formal set-up, and been unwilling either to compromise or to go gradually.

Amen to this. It is so so true. Certain institutions are very conservative and all are bureaucratic. Change happens but it is slow.

Helen.CH 08-03-2020 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Queen Claude (Post 2331735)
There was a report (don't remember how credible it was) that William supported Harry getting his own court but ultimately it was decided by The Queen and Prince of Wales that Harry not get his own court and he and Meghan ended up joining the Buckingham Palace organization.

How wise this decision was, if true, look what H&M have done since "free",
leaving ruins everywhere they step in, sueing, complaining, whining hypocrites.

Somebody 08-03-2020 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlota (Post 2331928)
the rapidity of how quickly events advanced between this two is quite surprising indeed:

June 2016: met, shortly after they began a relationship
August 2017: visited Botswana and Victoria Falls
September 2017: appeared together in public (some say they were already engaged at this point)
November 2017: engagement was announced
May 2018: marriage
October 2018: pregnancy announced; first overseas tour
May 2019: archie born
January 2020: announced that they were stepping back

so in 3.5 years, they went from being bachelors living in 2 opposite sides of the world doing completely different things with their lives, to them becoming husband and wife, meghan becoming royal, becoming parents... and then in less than 1.5 years after marriage leaving the RF. it's all rather puzzling when looked from the outside.

I included some other key events - others might want to add even more.

Early July 2016: met for the first time
Mid/Late July 2016: Harry asked Meghan to join him for holiday in Botswana which she did
November 2016: Statement by Harry confirming relationship
March? 2017: Meghan closing TIG
June 2017: interviewed for cover article in VF
August 2017: visited Botswana and Victoria Falls
September 2017: cover article in VF published & appeared together in public at Invictus Games
November 2017: engagement was announced
May 2018: marriage
October 2018: pregnancy announced; first overseas tour
May 2019: Archie born
September 2019: Southern Africa tour with Archie
November 2019: Family leaves for Canada
January 2020: announced that they were stepping back

Helen.CH 08-03-2020 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denville (Post 2331818)
I really don't know. I find them hard to follow. I begin to think more and more that Harry wasn't really committed to the royal role.. and Meg even less so. Perhaps they undertook it in a spirit of "we'll give it a go but if we're not happy in it, or aren't free to do things the way we want to, we can quit fully or partially.."
I think that when they did decide to leave it was "we'll stay part time" because that would give them security of being royal, the various financial helps like free security adn Frogmore as a base in the UK .. and the rest of their time they'd spend in the US making money...
and possibly they were thinking that if the money making did really well, they would still do a bit of charity work, and work for the queen but the business career would take precedence.
Neither of them seemed to realise that they could not be half in and half out.. and I think that Harry was quite sullen about it.. as well as Meg....


Making money is a point I cannot understand, they have enough money, heritage to come and like the Yorks have shown before, the firm would even pay if things went wrong . So what on earth does motivate them to make more money?
But of course this is in the dephts of human character.
And this rivalry between the brothers, If it's true it's just another proof how far H's opinion is from reality, he had all the chances and what did he do? Working or I say playing a little bit soldier but when not being protected and filmed in Afghanistan he got bored of it. Going out in Naziuniforms or playing strip poker, how old was he then? Instead of creating his own career he played along, has no working experience, no studies done, just nothing and now he wants to save the world with his c-class actress?
I just cannot believe any of their points. If he and them really deeply think they are going to make a difference, it is pretty sick.
The book is just another sign how things go wrong when you let those two run their own thing, I think the firm can be really happy they're off.
I think 2020 will kill their idea and if there is a time after Covid nobody will take much notice of H&M, if they really wanted a quiet life, here you are.

Eskimo 08-03-2020 04:48 PM

The revelations so far in the book have done nothing to change my mind. I think H&M view themselves as the Patron Saints of Perpetual Victimhood

Betsypaige 08-03-2020 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heavs (Post 2331919)
What he's alleged to have said is very mild to me. Who wouldn't be concerned about a sibling potentially rushing in to marriage during a long distance relationship where you're both on best behaviour for the short amount of time you spend together? Then add in the insanity of being a potential royal wife and Duchess without knowing much about it. All of which was echoed in the media and here at the time.

It's not like William didn't have personal experience about waiting despite the ever present Men in Grey Suits allegedly trying to organise a wedding the second they left uni.

We all get why they could wait very long but 18 months (possibly only a year if the "secret engagement" is true) and not living in the same country 90% of that time is not long in this situation. And that was partly borne out in the 18 months (1 year if excluding maternity leave and planning time) they gave it before fleeing the country.

Oh I agree....also, Harry has had a couple of relationships that ended because his girlfriends didn’t want that kind of lifestyle. William was only showing how much he cared about his brother, but of course Harry took it as something personal against him and Meghan. It must be hard to deal with him when anytime someone expresses concern Harry gets so upset.

Betsypaige 08-03-2020 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acdc1 (Post 2331923)
I do think that giving them their own Court would have been an unwise decision. What do you think they would have done had they be given their own court that would have made it so dangerous? Would it have given them more freedom to do what they wanted with fewer boundaries?

I think they would have tried to do a lot more, they’d have tried to push the boundaries, change from within. IMO, they couldn’t be trusted. Harry and Meghan wanted to do things their way; they aren’t team players, they don’t respect the Institution.


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