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-   -   Finding Freedom: Harry and Meghan and the Making of A Modern Royal Family (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f61/finding-freedom-harry-and-meghan-and-the-making-of-a-modern-royal-family-47438.html)

Alison H 07-29-2020 12:38 PM

No problem with alternative history - I just find it a bit strange to use real people in it.

Denville 07-29-2020 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betsypaige (Post 2330647)
The most likely explanation is the simplest: Harry and Meghan told the authors this. It’s the most believable and reasonable explanation as far as I’m concerned. I don’t care about H and M’s denials - I believe they absolutely gave their consent to the book and certainly spoke to Omid directly. He’s their friend, so of course they’ve told him things that only they would know; they’ve been doing this all along. If they weren’t, then why would Scooby keep emphasizing in his articles that he has his info directly from the sources? It’s the one thing that sets him apart from other media, at least as he sees it.

probably its through intermediaries..
Omids thing is that he is a supporter of the Sussexes.. If he writes a book on them it is a sympathetic work and is meant to show their POV. and it does gibe with what they themselves have said.. Harry being resentful that he "had to go" from royal life.. Meg feeling the Palace did not protect her, Harry feeling that Will was being snobbish about Meghan...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alison H (Post 2330649)
No problem with alternative history - I just find it a bit strange to use real people in it.

But alternative history IS about real people.. its history. It is a way of analyzing history by wondering "what would happen if..."
Would Britain have won the war if Say Winston Churchill had died in 1940? If Germany had invaded would Britain have gone on fighting or collaborated...

Kataryn 07-29-2020 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osipi (Post 2330646)
The thing is, we don't know for a *fact* that anything that is out about the inner relationships workings of any of the BRF.

Its a whole lot of 4+2=42 and we all know 42 is the ultimate answer to life, the universe and everything. There's 2+2=4 facts woven in. We just have to discriminate between what is fact and what is assumed to be. :smile:


You are so right to bring in the 42 thing here. As in Basic, the first programme language really widely used (and yes, I know about Pascal), the "42" is the sign of the asterisk: meaning "whatever you want me to be". Here, everyone has a slightly different idea what 42 is... Truth? Doesn't matter much, me thinks... :biggrin:

Somebody 07-29-2020 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenMathilde (Post 2330635)
Well according to Harry and Meghan they did not cooperate on this book. However if it's meant to be "their side of the story" from what I've read it makes Meghan and Harry look worse, not more sympathetic. So it was a mistake.

They may not have "cooperated with this book" but they did cooperate and talk to at least one of the authors previously. Omid was even invited to some special Buckingham Palace event that others were not on Meghan's last full day in the UK. In addition, when questioned he kept repeating that he didn't have a formal interview for the book... He never negated that they talked. Which imho can be taken as a confirmation that they very much did talk. He apparently didn't need a formal interview for the book as he already had received lots of information from the couple and probably also from others close to them.

Denville 07-29-2020 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somebody (Post 2330663)
They may not have "cooperated with this book" but they did cooperate and talk to at least one of the authors previously. Omid was even invited to some special Buckingham Palace event that others were not on Meghan's last full day in the UK. In addition, when questioned he kept repeating that he didn't have a formal interview for the book... He never negated that they talked. Which imho can be taken as a confirmation that they very much did talk. He apparently didn't need a formal interview for the book as he already had received lots of information from the couple and probably also from others close to them.

That was my impression that they got on with him and that even though they had refused to cooperated with other newspapers he was one of the ones that they felt was sympathetic and on their side..
So is this guy whom they see as one of their friendly journalists, one of the good guys who hasn't been negative towards them.. Well is this good guy going to write a book that is all made up and has no solid basis of evidence? Are we to say "Omid is one of the journoes that they like and feel comfortable with, who has followed them for some time.. but he's written this pile of nonsense which is all made up and fantasy?"
What would that say about him? or about them for getting on wiht him?

poppy7 07-29-2020 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kataryn (Post 2330623)
You appear as if both Charles and Diana were never talked and written about before they felt they had to present "their" side. Which is laughable!
And even as they talked and others wrote it down, all readers knew they would both not tell an absolute truth but their own side. Which left a lot of things open to interpretation.


If Harry and Meghan had a hand in this book, I hope they are content now. If not, they should think about how they made the book possibleor not and eventually sue the author.
We all should know that there is no real truth to be found, that Scobie and his co-author interpreted what was told to them by whoever and that even the people portrayed normally have no objective look at themselves.


Because there is nothing objective about the life and action of people when told by anyone, including themselves. And we should all be well aware of this before we go out and claim to have the right to judge people we never met nor will meet according to articles written in the media or books.




Yes. So he wrote Diana's book. Doesn't make it objective information.

Noting is objective. Ever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osipi (Post 2330646)
The thing is, we don't know for a *fact* that anything that is out about the inner relationships workings of any of the BRF.

Its a whole lot of 4+2=42 and we all know 42 is the ultimate answer to life, the universe and everything. There's 2+2=4 facts woven in. We just have to discriminate between what is fact and what is assumed to be. :smile:

No we don't. You need to be real. This was leaked and everyone said. ' It can't be right. You are being to cruel to them'. They quite obviously communicated with the writers in some way. This is their truth.

Betsypaige 07-29-2020 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyDrx (Post 2330648)
It's from The Wicked Wit of the Royal Family by Karen Dolby.


https://books.google.co.id/books?id=...opera!&f=false

Thank you! I think I couldn’t find it because there was no “bloody” in the actual quote..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somebody (Post 2330663)
They may not have "cooperated with this book" but they did cooperate and talk to at least one of the authors previously. Omid was even invited to some special Buckingham Palace event that others were not on Meghan's last full day in the UK. In addition, when questioned he kept repeating that he didn't have a formal interview for the book... He never negated that they talked. Which imho can be taken as a confirmation that they very much did talk. He apparently didn't need a formal interview for the book as he already had received lots of information from the couple and probably also from others close to them.

Cooperation can mean different things. Did Harry and Meghan sit down for interviews specifically for the book ? I don’t think so. Did they give their consent for the authors to use their personal knowledge (that Omid especially would have) for the book? I think they did.

This idea that only the former instance can mean that H and M knew about and approved what was in the book reminds me of the episode of the Brady Bunch. In it, Mike and Carol forbid Greg from driving their car for a week, so he uses a friend’s car instead to buy tickets to a concert. When his parents punish him for disobeying, Greg claims that their “exact words” were that he couldn’t drive THEIR car, not that he couldn’t drive any car. He wiggles out of the punishment by agreeing that he has to abide by “exact words” from now on, which proves to be impossible. For me, H and M saying they didn’t “cooperate with the book” is like Greg using the “exact words” argument with his parents. Carol and Mike said “you knew exactly what we meant when we said you couldn’t drive our car”, and that’s what I would say to H and M. When people talk about cooperating with the book, it encompasses many things, not just sit down interviews. It includes simply approving the inclusion of stories, etc...that pretty much only close associates of H and M would have access to.

Gawin 07-29-2020 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somebody (Post 2330663)
They may not have "cooperated with this book" but they did cooperate and talk to at least one of the authors previously. Omid was even invited to some special Buckingham Palace event that others were not on Meghan's last full day in the UK. In addition, when questioned he kept repeating that he didn't have a formal interview for the book... He never negated that they talked. Which imho can be taken as a confirmation that they very much did talk. He apparently didn't need a formal interview for the book as he already had received lots of information from the couple and probably also from others close to them.

Scobie did state that the Sussexes did not talk to him for the book, either on or off-record.

But as other forum members have pointed out, we don't know if they allowed their friends to talk.

See the following extract from "She is a biracial woman from the US that was always going to ruffle feathers," The Times, 25 July 2020, p. 10, col. 1 & 2:

"So did Omid and Carolyn have a sit-down with Harry and Meghan? “The book doesn’t claim to have any interviews with Harry and Meghan. And nor do we,” Scobie says. But did they have them? “I don’t claim to have interviews with them.”
But did he have them? “There are no interviews with Harry and Meghan.”
Was there, perhaps, an off-the-record talk? “You’ve read the book. There’s no on-the-record interviews with the couple.”
Was there an off-the-record discussion with them? “No,” he says more quietly, “and I think that you can tell from the reporting, my time around the couple is enough for me to know my subjects.”"

Katymcwaity 07-29-2020 03:28 PM

Seems like the daily mail has a new story every hour about Meghan since they presumably have a copy of book.

Naturally, its another story where the couple don’t come out of it looking good

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...k-reveals.html

Somebody 07-29-2020 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gawin (Post 2330700)
Scobie did state that the Sussexes did not talk to him for the book, either on or off-record.

But as other forum members have pointed out, we don't know if they allowed their friends to talk.

See the following extract from "She is a biracial woman from the US that was always going to ruffle feathers," The Times, 25 July 2020, p. 10, col. 1 & 2:

"So did Omid and Carolyn have a sit-down with Harry and Meghan? “The book doesn’t claim to have any interviews with Harry and Meghan. And nor do we,” Scobie says. But did they have them? “I don’t claim to have interviews with them.”
But did he have them? “There are no interviews with Harry and Meghan.”
Was there, perhaps, an off-the-record talk? “You’ve read the book. There’s no on-the-record interviews with the couple.”
Was there an off-the-record discussion with them? “No,” he says more quietly, “and I think that you can tell from the reporting, my time around the couple is enough for me to know my subjects.”"

He does NOT say that he didn't talk to them off-the record. There was no off-the-record discussion; not sure what the difference is - but apparently, to him it makes a difference. If he had felt comfortable saying that he didn't talk to them, he would have said so but he didn't.

Kataryn 07-29-2020 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppy7 (Post 2330678)
No we don't. You need to be real. This was leaked and everyone said. ' It can't be right. You are being to cruel to them'. They quite obviously communicated with the writers in some way. This is their truth.


When you as a journo are a Royal writer and part of the "rat pack", you have access to all kind of sources, you need not to talk to one of the RF at all to learn most about what happens there.



I am just not willing to believe Harry & Meghan are so stupid to want to see the world reading this! (the things I know from reading the Guardian's report).
Excerpts are always just teasers and/or follow someone's agenda.



I personally am seriously in doubt this guy Scobie is as close to them as he thinks or makes it appear. And he is someone who sells out people for gain.



IMHO they allowed him a lot of access when he planned to write a book about their great romance. Including some of their complaints to give him a proper story. That it turned out as it is? I don't think Harry & Meghan planned it that way and they couldn't stop it once Scobie sniffed the big money. People once asked who answered can be asked again, right? And a lot of people, even those in general supportive, may have made up a different mind once they saw what was planned with "SussexRoyal" and so on.



Meghan has been in over her head with the media and the inner workings at the palaces, Harry is an imbecile with more cotton dreams than real life experience. IMHO!


If my private picture of Diana is correct, she was a woman who knew exactly that to further her son William's claim to the throne could only happen with a good relationship for William with Charles and the queen. Harry OTOH could have been hers. And we know how pushy she was when she wanted something. Which makes it even more tragic for Harry to loose her so early in his life.



But would have been a reason why he was spoiled by William and Charles (and probably the queen, too). I think they were glad he stayed within "their" circle of friends and advisors and went to the army. Coming back he tried to find his place as a working Royal but with Meghan all that changed.



The problem IMHO was that there was always a way out, as she is American, first as a negociation point, maybe a thread but mishandled like they did, it backfired. Plus this book? Oh, what a shitty situation!

Denville 07-29-2020 03:42 PM

So it appears that they are a stupid pair who gave access to someone who was going to write some kind of nonsensical book which will only make them look bad?

QueenMathilde 07-29-2020 03:46 PM

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...k-reveals.html


So what did the tiara she wanted to wear look like?

poppy7 07-29-2020 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kataryn (Post 2330708)
When you as a journo are a Royal writer and part of the "rat pack", you have access to all kind of sources, you need not to talk to one of the RF at all to learn most about what happens there.



I am just not willing to believe Harry & Meghan are so stupid to want to see the world reading this! (the things I know from reading the Guardian's report).
Excerpts are always just teasers and/or follow someone's agenda.



I personally am seriously in doubt this guy Scobie is as close to them as he thinks or makes it appear. And he is someone who sells out people for gain.



IMHO they allowed him a lot of access when he planned to write a book about their great romance. Including some of their complaints to give him a proper story. That it turned out as it is? I don't think Harry & Meghan planned it that way and they couldn't stop it once Scobie sniffed the big money. People once asked who answered can be asked again, right? And a lot of people, even those in general supportive, may have made up a different mind once they saw what was planned with "SussexRoyal" and so on.



Meghan has been in over her head with the media and the inner workings at the palaces, Harry is an imbecile with more cotton dreams than real life experience. IMHO!


If my private picture of Diana is correct, she was a woman who knew exactly that to further her son William's claim to the throne could only happen with a good relationship for William with Charles and the queen. Harry OTOH could have been hers. And we know how pushy she was when she wanted something. Which makes it even more tragic for Harry to loose her so early in his life.



But would have been a reason why he was spoiled by William and Charles (and probably the queen, too). I think they were glad he stayed within "their" circle of friends and advisors and went to the army. Coming back he tried to find his place as a working Royal but with Meghan all that changed.



The problem IMHO was that there was always a way out, as she is American, first as a negociation point, maybe a thread but mishandled like they did, it backfired. Plus this book? Oh, what a shitty situation!

Harry and Meghan don't think the book is bad. Because it is their story. It won't do their mental health any good when they see people's responses.

William was always going to be King regardless of any type of relationship.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denville (Post 2330709)
So it appears that they are a stupid pair who gave access to someone who was going to write some kind of nonsensical book which will only make them look bad?

Well they are not that bright. She always appear to talk with such confidence and intelligence but it's the Ameeicsn confidence seeing her through. They aren't the sharpest but then neither are lots of others.

Denville 07-29-2020 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppy7 (Post 2330714)
Well they are not that bright. She always appear to talk with such confidence and intelligence but it's the Ameeicsn confidence seeing her through. They aren't the sharpest but then neither are lots of others.

but thats not the point. They must be pretty damn stupid, if Omid has taken advantage of them to such an extent...According to my understanding he was a favoured reporter.. and now he's written a book which according to some posters is all his imagination since Meg Harry etc haven't helped him with it..

Alison H 07-29-2020 03:58 PM

I think Diana had a lot of issues stemming from the fact that her own parents were very bitterly divorced and that their children, especially Diana and her brother as they were so young when their parents split, were made to feel like piggy in the middle between them. Then William and Harry got caught up in the War of the Waleses, and then Diana died when they were both still so young. And now, if this goes on, Archie is going to grow up in a situation where his parents don't speak to one of his grandparents and have abused the other side of his family all over the world's media. It'd be great as a 1980s soap opera like Dallas or Dynasty, but it's pretty horrible in real life.

Helen.CH 07-29-2020 03:59 PM

There is never the truth, there are always many various truths.
It is a matter of respect to accept somebody's truth or let's say respect the way the person has developped feelings because of his or hers truth when dealing with somebody directly.

poppy7 07-29-2020 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denville (Post 2330709)
So it appears that they are a stupid pair who gave access to someone who was going to write some kind of nonsensical book which will only make them look bad?

Well they are not that bright. She always appears to talk with such confidence and intelligence but it's the American confidence seeing her through. They aren't the sharpest but then neither are lots of others.

poppy7 07-29-2020 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denville (Post 2330715)
but thats not the point. They must be pretty damn stupid, if Omid has taken advantage of them to such an extent...According to my understanding he was a favoured reporter.. and now he's written a book which according to some posters is all his imagination since Meg Harry etc haven't helped him with it..

No one actually believes that? Do they?

Denville 07-29-2020 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alison H (Post 2330716)
I think Diana had a lot of issues stemming from the fact that her own parents were very bitterly divorced and that their children, especially Diana and her brother as they were so young when their parents split, were made to feel like piggy in the middle between them. Then William and Harry got caught up in the War of the Waleses, and then Diana died when they were both still so young. And now, if this goes on, Archie is going to grow up in a situation where his parents don't speak to one of his grandparents and have abused the other side of his family all over the world's media. It'd be great as a 1980s soap opera like Dallas or Dynasty, but it's pretty horrible in real life.

I think the ships' sailed re Archie's grandfather - if you mean TOmas Markle.


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