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Sun Lion 05-24-2020 12:18 AM

I’m glad we have two, hopefully insightful, books coming out at more or less the same time, and so early after these recent events.

I think the two approaches will give those with an interest in the Royal Couple a chance to get a broader, and I hope deeper, look than just one book.

And I think this book “Finding Freedom”, to make the claim that their exit from the UK was driven more by the Duke, this shows they have in some way co-operated with the authors. I can’t see that being in there without the couple’s ok.

Hallo girl 05-24-2020 03:58 AM

Call me stupid but how can we possibly believe this is the true story when if as is being inferred there was no involvement from H & M it must therefore be based on conjecture and gossip. That is no different to other so called 'true stories'.
If they are involved I do not think IMO they will trash the BRF, possibly the courtiers and the system but not the family.
If there is no detail around Thomas Markle that also infers a certain amount of control because lets be honest that is a big part of the story , and some of that is on the record, not all of it but some.
What I am trying to say badly is that IMO it will be self evident how much input there has been by the detail either included or excluded. It all tells a tale.

Muhler 05-24-2020 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Lion (Post 2315922)
The decision to quit the Royal Family was made by the Duke.

The term “Megxit” angers him.

“The book will explain why it had to happen”.

And there will be no coverage of the situation between the Duchess and her father.

New revelations from Omid Scobie and Carolyn Durand’s forthcoming book.

The 368 page book is due out on August 11th.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/116950...eaving-royals/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...an-Markle.html

Aha.
So it is an official unofficial account by H&M.

It sure won't make things easier for H&M in so many ways! In fact I hardly know where to start! :ohmy:

Okay, Harry has wanted to opt out, or at the very least become a very secondary figure within the BRF, while at the same time working very much in the public eye for carefully selected causes. - That's at best a wishful contradiction. I cannot imagine the public buying that one.

The break was a necessary move. - At that time? With such a short notice? And so abruptly? The phasing out couldn't have been more slow? - I'm afraid the public majority will see that as a confirmation of Harry in particular betraying the BRF, and especially QEII.

Harry is shielding Meghan by taking full responsibility. That's been typical of Harry's behavior regarding his wife. Nothing new there. - Whether the public believes it is an entirely different matter.

One thing is certain, if this book is allowed to stand, without elaboration from H&M, or confirmation by the BRF, it will IMO have the consequence that Harry will have burned quite a few bridges behind him in regards to the British public. (His relationship with the BRF is not something I will go into here, it would be pure speculation.)
It would make it much more difficult for H&M to operate in Britain in connection with the causes them still seem anxious to support. Not to mention returning there at some point. - And whether the public will be impressed in a number of other countries, Canada, Australia and New Zealand in particular, will be interesting to see. That I will leave to the residents of these countries here on TRF to judge.

As for the details about what they had to eat and such, that's either sugary PR or fill, probably both IMO. Because the absolutely most important part of this book is the "explanation and justification" and that's why it will be published.

I'm again left almost numb.
It is IMO a disastrous approach.
Why can't they find a friendly and uncritical reporter on some network and explain themselves quietly? That shouldn't be a problem.
The interview would still cause a huge stir, but at least it's honest and there is a, albeit small, chance the public will accept their explanation.
But this roundabout way will backfire big time!

No matter what. This will not lessen the controversy around H&M and it will not make them look more sympathetic in the eyes of the general public. I simply cannot imagine that happening in this respect.

Hallo girl 05-24-2020 04:20 AM

We could end up with an ' Andrew Morton ' scenario where the subjects deny all involvement but it is obvious by some of the detail that there had to be some communication.

The devil will be in the detail as the saying goes.
Here is a question if they have no involvement and there are things in the book that they disagree with, will they sue

Muhler 05-24-2020 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hallo girl (Post 2315953)
We could end up with an ' Andrew Morton ' scenario where the subjects deny all involvement but it is obvious by some of the detail that there had to be some communication.

The devil will be in the detail as the saying goes.
Here is a question if they have no involvement and there are things in the book that they disagree with, will they sue

Well, if they were in disagreement about the contents of the book, (any serious, decent and professional author surely would have approached H&M with the manuscript for them to comment on, if this is supposed to be a pro-H&M book) I believe H&M would have contacted the author or publisher via a solicitor, to either retract the book or at the very least make it crystal clear that this book is not in any way approved by H&M.
The fact that the book is going to be published, with so much emphasis on their... exit... and in such details, without H&M making it clear they have not contributed to the book or that they feel the book does not represent their views, means it is an official unofficial account.
Silence won't work, as the author is close to them personally.

The alternative is indeed to sue. But that means appearing in court where H&M will be forced to say what is incorrect in the book.

No matter what H&M are forced to at some point personally account for themselves, their motives, their approach and their reasoning.
This book will raise more questions than it answers. The foremost in my mind being: Is what the book says correct?

H&M have painted themselves even more into a corner.

Fem 05-24-2020 04:56 AM

I may not like the situation, but damn, the more information we have about this book it just seems more and more interesting.

(And before I get attacked here, yes, I fully believe Meghan and Harry did not gave an interview for this book, as it was said, but come on, an interview is not the only way they could supply Omid with information.)

Quote:

The reality is Harry drove that decision. The book will make that clear and explain why it had to happen. The truth is Harry had been unhappy for a long, long time. He wanted to move in the direction that they did and had been considering it for more than a year.
Look at this quote from "insider publisher" - if the book truly explains that situation fully, I don't believe it happened without some form of cooperation from Meghan and Harry. And tbh, I don't think they had anything nefarious in mind, they just wanted to get their version of the story out and choose this way. The BRF have a rocky history with going public with their life (the 1969 documentary, Morton's book, Diana's Panorama interview, Prince Charles interview, Sussexes documentary with ITV, Prince Andrew interview...) - it's like they should stop doing that because it never ends well :lol: But maybe this book will be different, who knows.

Also interesting are the quotes from Omid:
Quote:

Duke and Duchess of Sussex enjoyed a low-key anniversary celebration, spending part of the day looking back at their 2018 wedding with a number of people over video calls—including some of the vendors who helped bring their Windsor Castle ceremony and receptions to life.
Quote:

“They all reminisced about what a beautiful and magical day it was,” says a source, who adds that the couple also Zoom-called close friends and family members throughout the day.
Quote:

And with the Sussexes now based in Los Angeles, it only seemed right to celebrate with a Southern Californian favorite: Mexican food. The couple, who also exchanged cotton-based gifts per tradition, enjoyed a number of favorite dishes together, washed down with margaritas.
Yeah, so I don't have a good opinion about the guy, but damn, if that's true he has some sources at hand to talk to. There was a hundred of ways to keep their second anniversary private and yet, it seems like Scobie got what he wanted either way. I don't know if it means that the Sussexes want that information out there or they can't stop their friends from talking or the author is simply making it up, but it's still very, very interesting.

(Quotes come from Scobie's article in HB: https://www.harpersbazaar.com/celebr...y-celebration/)

Muhler 05-24-2020 05:33 AM

The details from their anniversary should be easy to obtain.
Omid could simply have called Meghan and asked how they celebrated their anniversary. With Meghan simply answering: Oh we had a few margaritas and some Mexican takeaway quietly here at home. - Yeah, X and Y called too.
- Even a mediocre author should be able to write a story based on that.

Back in the 80s there was a Page-3 girl (Maria Whittaker) I found very interesting - mainly for her brains and personality of course...
At the tender age of seventeen her autobiography (very well illustrated BTW...) was published. Now, there is usually a limit to how much a seventeen year old girl has experienced, so an entire chapter was devoted to her budgie. - No kidding!

Omid is IMO at that level.
These trivial (and no doubt sugary) details about H&M's anniversary is his contribution to this book.
Interviewing friends of H&M, and perhaps H&M themselves, and putting what these people said into coherent sentences is above Omid's level. It requires experience, insight and maturity, hence why the second author was brought in.
Omid provided the contacts, the other author (can't remember her name off hand) did the real work.
And as for motives, that's of course pure speculation. My guess is that Omid did the book, because he is genuinely very pro-H&M.
The other author because there is very good money in this book!
If she manages to put the exit-chapter together in an interesting and not too biased way. i.e. merely quoting people - then she can expect to be asked to write columns in the future and be called in for comments as a "royal expert on H&M." She won't even have to compromise her professional integrity that much.

Omid will no doubt be like a fish in the water at talkshows, but he would be ripped to pieces by any critical journalist.

Denville 05-24-2020 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curryong (Post 2315935)
The couple are certainly both the product of broken marriages and tumultuous divorces. I suppose that's where the 'broken wings' analogy comes from. However they are happy together so far. And no, I don't think they will return to royal life, though in some ways I wish they would.

I find it more interesting Sun Lion that (a) Lady Colin can pronounce on what type of male and female Harry and Meghan are without ever meeting either of them (though she may have seen Harry a few times as a small child I've never believed she was ever a Diana confidante.)

Nor, what is perhaps more disagreeable, decide to write a biography of them without ever even speaking to them. Still, I suppose the profit motive rules.

Lots of biographies are written without the writer meeting the subject. What about historical biographies.

Lumutqueen 05-24-2020 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hallo girl (Post 2315950)
Call me stupid but how can we possibly believe this is the true story when if as is being inferred there was no involvement from H & M it must therefore be based on conjecture and gossip. That is no different to other so called 'true stories'.


Came here to say exactly this!

We’re being told they had no involvement in this book, so what Omid and Carolyn have written is “their” interpretation of events.

This book can’t be two things at once.

muriel 05-24-2020 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hallo girl (Post 2315950)
Call me stupid but how can we possibly believe this is the true story when if as is being inferred there was no involvement from H & M it must therefore be based on conjecture and gossip. That is no different to other so called 'true stories'.
If they are involved I do not think IMO they will trash the BRF, possibly the courtiers and the system but not the family.
If there is no detail around Thomas Markle that also infers a certain amount of control because lets be honest that is a big part of the story , and some of that is on the record, not all of it but some.
What I am trying to say badly is that IMO it will be self evident how much input there has been by the detail either included or excluded. It all tells a tale.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 2315952)
Aha.
So it is an official unofficial account by H&M.

It sure won't make things easier for H&M in so many ways! In fact I hardly know where to start! :ohmy:

I have to agree, this just seems to confirm that the book has the support and involvement of H&M.

This is even more dissappointing as Harry does not appear to have paid heed to the obvious lessons from Diana's liaisons with the press, and the issues that followed.

I do wish them well in their future lives, but IMO, it is very clear that Harry has made a number of serious errors of judgement in recent years. As to what is causing these errors of judgement, could include any or a combination of a) Harry just not being very bright and msreading the situation b) Obstinacy c) The grass is greener on the other side syndrome d)Clear direction from Meghan, and unwillingness of Harry to be able to either stand up to her or moderate her ask. All in all, it seems like a real waste, as they had real potential in their royal careers, but that chapter of their lives appears to be well and truely over.

Queen Claude 05-24-2020 07:48 AM

The authors have stated that neither Harry nor Meghan were interviewed for the book, however the Amazon description of the book has the following:

Quote:

With unique access and written with the participation of those closest to the couple...
I interpret that to mean that the authors interviewed multiple people close to the couple. Either these people knew very well what was went on and provided information that they were well-versed on, and if it was something that they were not well-versed on they went to Harry, Meghan or someone else to confirm or get further details.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hallo girl (Post 2315950)
If there is no detail around Thomas Markle that also infers a certain amount of control because lets be honest that is a big part of the story , and some of that is on the record, not all of it but some.

Good point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hallo girl (Post 2315950)
If they are involved I do not think IMO they will trash the BRF, possibly the courtiers and the system but not the family.

I think that the Sussexes are indirectly involved. Those involved probably know not to take a hard line especially against The Queen. Having said that, a brief anecdote or even quote involving another member can have considerable traction and can define the book. My understanding is that Prince Charles' marriage and romantic relationships were a relatively small part of Jonathan Dimbleby's biography and interview but the biography and especially the interview is remembered for the brief segment that touches on his marriage and extra-marital affair.

I have felt for a long time that the relationship with courtiers, leaks to the media by staffers and other actions like the Sussexes not getting their own court and then having to be part of Buckingham Palace court played a major role in making the Sussexes unhappy and more importantly believing that it is unlikely that things would improve. If that is the case and is touched on in the book, I would not be surprised if there is blowback on members of the BRF.

Pranter 05-24-2020 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curryong (Post 2315935)
The couple are certainly both the product of broken marriages and tumultuous divorces. I suppose that's where the 'broken wings' analogy comes from. However they are happy together so far. And no, I don't think they will return to royal life, though in some ways I wish they would.

I find it more interesting Sun Lion that (a) Lady Colin can pronounce on what type of male and female Harry and Meghan are without ever meeting either of them (though she may have seen Harry a few times as a small child I've never believed she was ever a Diana confidante.)

Nor, what is perhaps more disagreeable, decide to write a biography of them without ever even speaking to them. Still, I suppose the profit motive rules.


I would love to see them return..I hold out hope that in a few years (perhaps when Charles is King) they will return. That said, I don't think it's likely to happen...but I think it is an option.


LaRae

Fem 05-24-2020 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 2315961)
The details from their anniversary should be easy to obtain.
Omid could simply have called Meghan and asked how they celebrated their anniversary. With Meghan simply answering: Oh we had a few margaritas and some Mexican takeaway quietly here at home. - Yeah, X and Y called too.
- Even a mediocre author should be able to write a story based on that.

Oh, of course, but my question is... why do we need to know? Why is there this incentive to put everything in the media? No one needs to know what they were doing. And the person who gave Omid this information (be it Meghan or a friend) could simply say "no comment" and keep things private.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Queen Claude (Post 2315980)
The authors have stated that neither Harry nor Meghan were interviewed for the book (...)
I interpret that to mean that the authors interviewed multiple people close to the couple. Either these people knew very well what was went on and provided information that they were well-versed on, and if it was something that they were not well-versed on they went to Harry, Meghan or someone else to confirm or get further details.

You know they could obtain information directly from Meghan and Harry and not call that an interview, right? This was the first thing that was a bit off-putting. We got this info quite fast, but no one actually said that the Sussexes have nothing to do with this book, they did not cooperate at all and are distancing themselves from what was written. Which means that they like the contents. Which means they had some control over it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hallo girl (Post 2315950)
If there is no detail around Thomas Markle that also infers a certain amount of control because lets be honest that is a big part of the story , and some of that is on the record, not all of it but some.
What I am trying to say badly is that IMO it will be self evident how much input there has been by the detail either included or excluded. It all tells a tale.

I agree 100%. But it also does not surprise me in the slightest that Omid would leave out the Markle family drama if Meghan and Harry asked him to. (Which, in my eyes, makes him completely not suitable to write a book about them...)

These two are self-destroying with their actions. Any attack, even the slightest, at BRF will be blown up by the media out of proportion and it'll burn bridges between them and british public - well, those that weren't burnt already...

Muhler 05-24-2020 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fem (Post 2315988)
Oh, of course, but my question is... why do we need to know? Why is there this incentive to put everything in the media? No one needs to know what they were doing. And the person who gave Omid this information (be it Meghan or a friend) could simply say "no comment" and keep things private.

We don't.
Sugar coating? Fill? Creating a positive image, a "they are just like the rest of us" picture?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fem (Post 2315988)
You know they could obtain information directly from Meghan and Harry and not call that an interview, right? This was the first thing that was a bit off-putting. We got this info quite fast, but no one actually said that the Sussexes have nothing to do with this book, they did not cooperate at all and are distancing themselves from what was written. Which means that they like the contents. Which means they had some control over it.

Absolutely.
Off the record. No quotes. Based on informal conversations.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Fem (Post 2315988)
I agree 100%. But it also does not surprise me in the slightest that Omid would leave out the Markle family drama if Meghan and Harry asked him to. (Which, in my eyes, makes him completely not suitable to write a book about them...)

These two are self-destroying with their actions. Any attack, even the slightest, at BRF will be blown up by the media out of proportion and it'll burn bridges between them and british public - well, those that weren't burnt already...

Nor me.
A few questions springs to mind:
What is the purpose of the book?
Who has an interest in this book being written?
How does the author and/or H&M view Thomas Markle?
Is the book supposed to benefit anyone? If so who?
- My own answers to these questions leads me to the conclusion that there is no room in this book for Thomas Markle - at all!

----------------


Quote:

Originally Posted by Denville (Post 2315962)
Lots of biographies are written without the writer meeting the subject. What about historical biographies.

The difference is the authors personal link to H&M.

You or I can easily write a book about H&M and even base it on some interviews.
But since the distance between us and H&M (and the BRF too) is so big, it cannot be anything but speculations - and as such something H&M can simply ignore with no harm done.

But this book is co-authored by a personal friend of H&M and seemingly based on info from people with personal links to H&M.
That makes it almost impossible for H&M to ignore it and claim plausible deniability in regards to whether they personally okayed the book.

Osipi 05-24-2020 09:46 AM

I think what bothers me mostly about the publication of this book is that it will not be an unbiased telling of a supposedly "true story". I believe it will serve to paint H&M in the most favorable light possible with skirting over issues and events where H&M could have been found to be lacking, uncooperative or even at fault. It doesn't surprise me either that Thomas Markle will be excluded. The reason for that may actually be that its something very painful to Meghan and personal and not for public consumption about her relationship with her father.

A telling of a "true story" leaves nothing out. Exposes the good, the bad, the ugly and the warts. If history is written by the victors, then this "true story" is written by supporters of one side of the issues and events. ;)

Fem 05-24-2020 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 2315989)
Nor me.
A few questions springs to mind:
What is the purpose of the book?
Who has an interest in this book being written?
How does the author and/or H&M view Thomas Markle?
Is the book supposed to benefit anyone? If so who?
- My own answers to these questions leads me to the conclusion that there is no room in this book for Thomas Markle - at all!

I think we all know who is the book supposed to benefit and it's closely connected to the fact that they're skipping the Markle drama. But the thing is, I'm not sure it will do that - I think this will be another fail (another one on the list), the tabloids will drag Meghan and Harry personally for every word and they'll end up worse than they started.

But let's be honest, I haven't understood what those two were doing for the longest time and I'd kill for someone to make sense of it :lol:

Claire 05-24-2020 10:15 AM

I really think this book is more about Omid's relationship and view of the Sussex's then anything else - yes the other writer, sorry forget her name will try to balance the effort and hopefully we wont have a fluff piece

However as Omid is well known as Meghan's mouth piece - it must have been known how this book will be seen. So even if Meghan and Harry had nothing to do with it - this version will be seen as 'official' So Meghan's fans will see it like that and her not so loving followers will as well.

Omid knows that he cannot hold Meghan's favor forever and he needs to make money now while the fire is hot. Either the couple will stop sharing with him or they will no longer draw the money he is looking for. It is very possible he feels he is doing them a favor himself - showing his worth.
You must see that when Meghan and Harry left the royal family - there were a number of their court that suddenly saw their golden geese flying away. This is really all Omid has and he will milk it as long as he can.

Somebody 05-24-2020 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fem (Post 2315955)

Also interesting are the quotes from Omid:
Duke and Duchess of Sussex enjoyed a low-key anniversary celebration, spending part of the day looking back at their 2018 wedding with a number of people over video calls—including some of the vendors who helped bring their Windsor Castle ceremony and receptions to life.
“They all reminisced about what a beautiful and magical day it was,” says a source, who adds that the couple also Zoom-called close friends and family members throughout the day.


Yeah, so I don't have a good opinion about the guy, but damn, if that's true he has some sources at hand to talk to. There was a hundred of ways to keep their second anniversary private and yet, it seems like Scobie got what he wanted either way. I don't know if it means that the Sussexes want that information out there or they can't stop their friends from talking or the author is simply making it up, but it's still very, very interesting.

(Quotes come from Scobie's article in HB: https://www.harpersbazaar.com/celebr...y-celebration/)

The part that is really weird to me is them calling their vendors! That really shows that they think the world of themselves. Who in their right mind would call their wedding vendors to celebrate their second wedding anniversary?!

Of course, especially in the case of a royal wedding, it is imperative to send them a thank you-note within about a month of the event. But calling their vendors two years later seems too much. Having a skype/Zoom call with some family members and your witnesses/best man etc would make sense (and hopefully the best man was indeed included in the 'close family members' they talked to) but this?!

Heavs 05-24-2020 10:31 AM

Without including at least some of the Markle drama the story will be incomplete, even from a very favourable H&M perspective. Whatever one thinks of the various members of the BRF's role in this, her family's contributions to the insane atmosphere surrounding the couple before and after their marriage both publicly and privately is something that has to be hugely impactful.

If Harry has really been desperate to walk for years, he should have done so before the wedding, that would have been a good time for a clean break. If they had been planning this for over a year say since the Australia tour then they shouldn't have rushed out a disasterous list of demands that were unviable and B) not accepted so many important patronages and other things whilst planning an escape.

MARG 05-24-2020 10:43 AM

Since I was old enough to indulge my interest in the BRF in books I believe the majority are public information is written through the lenses of "biographers" supposedly connected to their mealticket, subject, sorry subject.

Biographers seem given to amazing flights of fancy commensurate with the standing or their subject(s) and anyone who is not a friend of long standing seem to get all excited and gush effusively over their friend's and everyone is horrified at the end.

I find it hard to believe that Harry would have gone down the same road as his mother seeing that it totally ended any connection with anyone other than Charles. She didn't realise that she had literally burnt her bridges.

Would Harry stab his father and grandparents in the heart and end up only returning to the family as the outcast who walks behind the guncarriage of his father and grandparents just like his great uncle David, once the jewel in the. Crown but then an exile who is expected to leave his wife behind and leave the country as soon as is decently possible?

Something is odd to me about the Sussexes role in all this.


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