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Betsypaige 08-17-2020 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommy100 (Post 2336623)
Interesting because Omid's comments were taken from the interview he did the other day, I believe its a blog/tv show interview so shouldn't be too hard to verify what Omid said.

Oh look, found it...I wont post the clip as its on a troll twitter but I believe it to be real and not doctored at all. He's right he never said "yelled" or "shouted" but he did say Harry phoned the Queen and said "I don’t know what the hell is going on. This woman needs to make this work for my future wife." Its not a comfortable thing to say to your grandmother about one of her closest aides and confidants IMO, never mind if you grandmother is the Queen or not. It is still out of line, still disrespectful, still blaming an employee for his soon to be wife apparently just turning up demanding access to a priceless tiara without warning and still has a nasty undertone to it IMO, especially when the Queen is doing you a favour loaning you one of her tiaras. Note he isn't denying anything else just that he never said "shouted", well to be honest if Harry had shouted at HM I think we'd all of been shocked. Speaking like this to HM is akin to shouting at her IMO.

Whats interesting...is this the only thing that Omid has said that is wrong and therefore thats why its the first thing to be corrected?

I think the reason why it could be interpreted as yelling is because generally when someone uses “hell” like that, it’s because they’re upset...and Harry was clearly upset. Maybe he didn’t scream at his grandmother, but I have no doubt that he raised his voice - fairly loudly - and that can be construed as yelling even if Omid didn’t use that word. It’s unbelievably disrespectful to treat his grandmother like that - shocking, really.

duchessrachel 08-17-2020 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppy7 (Post 2336405)
Final update on the book.

Paranoia.

Narcissism

Impulsivity

Lack of intelligence and understanding.

Reluctance to take advice.

Lacking an understanding of symbiotic relationship with the media and poking the bear.

Ridiculous lack of understanding of how the family split from family to business by negotiating through their staff. Which leads me to think this was all Meghan's doing because Harry had obviously been so uninterested in it before that he didn't realise half the work his staff did.

Shed loads of famous name dropping.

Cry me a river with your tiniest violin. Good luck to them. Best they are gone.

Good luck to your career to Omid after this vapid, narcissistic book. It will make money though.

A dreadful book where the only sense came from.palace insiders on both sides.

Still great family fun on a staycation. But no gossip, nothing much interesting. Just a Meghan manifesto.

This is the best review I have read.

teruterubouzu 08-17-2020 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curbside (Post 2336114)
I wouldn’t care about the shopping part, but the tiara practice seems like a reasonable request. Tiaras look mildly uncomfortable and I wonder how they keep them pinned in place without slipping askew.

Kate's stylist practiced with one from Claire's. They figured out they should sew it to a small braid.

Surely Meghan's could have practiced with something similar.

Sun Lion 08-17-2020 10:25 PM

I don’t understand ...

... “this girl” from William - not okay.

....”this woman” from Harry - okay, no problem.

The rules some people have for others, vs the rules they have for themselves, make them hard to relax around.

Good to be off the egg-shells back at the palace now I guess.

Helen.CH 08-17-2020 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camelot23ca (Post 2336571)
I think the handful of aides in Angela Kelly’s position - the people who have worked very closely with QEII for a long time - likely know her very well and may have a better understanding of overall Windsor family dynamics than most of the actual family members. (Let’s hope Angela Kelly never wants to Find Freedom). I don’t think someone who has been kept on so long would ever overstep, but she no doubt has a finely calibrated sense of how her boss prefers to handle each family member. For example, if Anne has contacted her mother’s closest aides once in the last 30 years upset about an emergency, a second call from her tomorrow would likely he seen in a different way than calls from other family members who seem to have emergencies much more often. It may be part of Ms. Kelly’s unofficial job description to know how long The Queen wants to be shielded from each family member.

exactly, this is how things are handled.

Curryong 08-18-2020 02:25 AM

Does the Queen know that Ms Kelly is performing this 'service' for her or has Angela Kelly just assumed it to be so and taken it on her own shoulders by herself? Because I would certainly be surprised to say the least if I learned that my dresser, however valuable she is to me and the Royal Household, believed that I had to be protected against a much loved grandson of mine and his fiancé.

Plus Omid said in an interview today that weeks had passed since the first try-on of the tiara until three days before the wedding in spite of many many phone calls from staff.
Plus, tiaras are a great deal heavier and less flexible, harder to manoevre than a plastic one from a cheap jewellery store.

muriel 08-18-2020 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curryong (Post 2336655)
Does the Queen know that Ms Kelly is performing this 'service' for her or has Angela Kelly just assumed it to be so and taken it on her own shoulders by herself? Because I would certainly be surprised to say the least if I learned that my dresser, however valuable she is to me and the Royal Household, believed that I had to be protected against a much loved grandson of mine and his fiancé.

By the looks of it, the only ones this "much loved grandson of mine and his fiancé" need to be protected from are themselves! :rofl:

Curryong 08-18-2020 02:35 AM

That is a matter of opinion. You are entitled to your opinion of course and I am entitled to mine. And in my opinion Angela Kelly has a great deal of power in the Royal Household while the Queen lives, and she knows it. And power can be misused by certain aides and officials within the Household.

muriel 08-18-2020 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curryong (Post 2336658)
That is a matter of opinion. You are entitled to your opinion of course and I am entitled to mine.

Indeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curryong (Post 2336658)
And in my opinion Angela Kelly has a great deal of power in the Royal Household while the Queen lives, and she knows it. And power can be misused by certain aides and officials within the Household.

That is true. But that does not necessarily mean that the power was indeed misused. It could just be a case of Harry jumping up and down shouting "What Meghan wants, Meghan gets!" and things not going quite to plan. :smile:

evolvingdoors 08-18-2020 03:18 AM

[QUOTE=tommy100;2336588]A few places are putting it that way - Meghan and hairdresser turned up at BP and asked for the tiara but Angela was with HM at Windsor and as she was the only one able to grant access it simply wasn’t possible. Even IF someone else had access to the vault Kelly wouldn’t allow people to go in and get the tiara without her being there, as at the end of the day the jewels are her responsibility.
Harry’s way if speaking about Kelly (and speaking to HM, his own grandmother) and them allowing this story to be made public to shame a member of HMs staff, essentially a domestic servant, at the end of the day, is shameful. I’m surprised HM didn’t pull the offer of the tiara loan to be honest.[/QUOTE]

That would have been so much worse!
Can you imagine Meghan’s and Harry’s rage? The cries of racism that would ensue from her fans?

No. I think the queen, the family and her aides has mostly handled all of this very well.

evolvingdoors 08-18-2020 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betsypaige (Post 2336618)
No offense, Osipi (and Sandy), but we JUST had a huge blowout in the Sussex boards about this topic. No matter what you think, there are people who want and need to hear what he's going to say about that Nazi incident.....like Jewish people. There is no statute of limitations on such ugly behavior. Maybe Harry didn't think he did enough. Maybe Harry wants to sincerely express his regrets. Maybe Harry wants to take real action now. I don't know, but for me this is a very good thing. I've criticized him a LOT, for good reason, but (and of course it depends on what he says) I'm looking forward to what he has to say.

Yep!
I do wanna add, I think I would only ever secure in his apology if he had a history of action.
Maybe he has been volunteering quietly for years now, but I feel a great doubt this is the case.
At the moment this feels like him jumping on another bandwagon for publicity sake rather than true sincerity and remorse.

But I have very little respect left for him, and next to non to Meghan.

Darius1 08-18-2020 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curryong (Post 2336658)
That is a matter of opinion. You are entitled to your opinion of course and I am entitled to mine. And in my opinion Angela Kelly has a great deal of power in the Royal Household while the Queen lives, and she knows it. And power can be misused by certain aides and officials within the Household.

I'm sure like any other corporation the Household has processes and procedures and can't just open the vault on a whim. Security must be incredibly tight, and I can't imagine there are a lot of spare keys or access cards lying around. I would guess hazard that two people have the key to this vault HM and Angela Kelly and neither were around and weren't going to run back to London to facilitate Meghan and her hairdresser.

lirienn 08-18-2020 06:13 AM

They started throwing each other under the bus. H&M realised how screaming incident looked badly on them. She threw Harry under the bus as well in the book because it was her book. I was interested more in Harry - going from the palace to the new life. All I can say is that those narcissist keep fighting instead having sweet time with Archie.
Due covid they lost so many opportunities and will be relegated to third thier.
I don't know him obviously but I surely believe with so much hate inside they can't be happy.
Harry really went from being a fun prince to picking battles with everyone. Their life probably starts at reading the news.
The tide has turned. They didn't gain sympathy after FF, on the contrary.

Fem 08-18-2020 06:41 AM

So Omid is making rounds promoting Finding Freedom and talking about the book and BRF. As I finished the book, I finally got to the media reactions and interviews, that I didn't want to read before.

As the book was fairly negative towards Catherine - I find these comments from Omid very interesting:

“In Meghan’s refusal to do certain things- like show Archie the day he was born- and in sharing her feminist views- that made Kate look incredibly old fashioned,” he says, “And I think there have been many times in which Megan's progressiveness highlighted Kate's almost sort of past-era persona that she has as the perfect Duchess of Cambridge.”

“I think if Meghan had come in and was the subservient wife and did everything that she was supposed to, at all times and didn't question anything, it may have been different. But Meghan just wasn't ever going to fit that sort of cookie-cutter Duchess role.”

It wasn't even 10 years ago that we had this evil portrayal of Kate Middleton, modernizing the royal family, introducing new ways that were supposed to be the downfall of the monarchy. It's been almost 20 years of constant, very often negative and hurtful press, of mistakes and mishaps and ignoring the awful comments and hard work to come to the fact that she's a perfect "past-era persona" and fit in a "cookie-cutter Duchess role". And all I can think is that in many situations you'll find more success with soft words and steel spine, because that's what's allowing the person to move forward when the times get tough.


ETA: Source: https://www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/ar...edom-interview

tommy100 08-18-2020 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darius1 (Post 2336722)
I'm sure like any other corporation the Household has processes and procedures and can't just open the vault on a whim. Security must be incredibly tight, and I can't imagine there are a lot of spare keys or access cards lying around. I would guess hazard that two people have the key to this vault HM and Angela Kelly and neither were around and weren't going to run back to London to facilitate Meghan and her hairdresser.


I think its been said Angela is the only one allowed to handle the jewels and with access to them all. Even if other people have access I can't see Angela letting them take out the tiara to give to Meghan simply because she has shown up unannounced as its on her head if anything were to happen. If enough notice could have been given maybe Kelly would have been happy to have someone else be on hand to give out the tiara after she herself had packed it up, checked it over etc. The issue seems to be that Harry didn't feel Kelly has being accommodating enough to find a date or make herself available on the date they wanted but seemingly Meghan and he hairdresser, despite nothing being confirmed, still turned up asking for the tiara. Well of course, if only Angela is authorised to hand over jewels and she is at Windsor then there is a problem.

The bit I would like to know is why they couldn't fix a date between Meghan and Kelly. I know some people on here think Angela may have become 'too big for her boots' but even she wouldn't be immune from getting into trouble if she was wilfully ignoring legitimate requests from Meghan (or their team) for use of the tiara (if this has been agreed) so either -

a) there had been no agreement/expectation/discussion about an extra session with the tiara for a hair styling. It seems Kate had not used the actual tiara for hers but a toy/replica one so maybe Angela wasn't expecting them to need another use of the tiara other than the wedding weekend

b) Kelly was given little notice of the extra date needed - if for example the only dates H&M offered or asked for were ones when Kelly was with HM at Windsor or elsewhere then it would be hard to fit in and could look like she is being stubborn when in fact she can hardly tell HM - sorry can't you change your plans...

c)Kelly really disliked Meghan so wilfully ignored requests from her in the expectation that HM (Harry's grandmother and the woman who had gone out of her way to welcome Meghan) would protect her from any fallout. This must be a very personal issue as under Kelly (or n her time with HM) the Queen has begun lending out much more jewels (to Kate and Sophie)

or IMO the more likely option d) Harry & Meghan are the original source, we are only hearing one side that overlooks something like the fact this was all in a tight time frame, that an extra date hadn't been discussed, it was their team dragging their feet or something that would make it all seem more understandable and is quite likely a bit of a filing on both sides (H&M and Kelly) and is really just a bit of a misunderstanding. Harry or Meghan have moaned / bragged either to Omid or friends who have then spoken to Omid, that an example of how they were mistreated is the tiara -
'we didn't get it when we wanted which was so inconvenient because the hairdresser was so fabulous he came from America and the slow Royal Household couldn't get us the tiara in time so we showed up (because thats what you do, thats what we nearly had to do when HM wouldn't see us after our stroppy demands went public you know!) and that mere employee Kelly wasn't even there to give it to us! Well what an inconvenience for us that my tiara wasn't ready, Harry was so furious he phoned the Queen to kick off.'

And that is where the narrative comes from, between their friends this is acceptable, it plays up to how hard done to H&M are and is just omitting a few facts so not lying in their eyes. Then suddenly this is being printed in a book and talked about and the public isn't (like their friends perhaps were) on H&Ms side but on HM's - how dare you speak to your grandmother like that, the tiara isn't yours but was being graciously loaned etc. So its time to say it didn't happen and give a - probably - more accurate telling but different from the one (slightly 'embellished') you were happy to tell to friends to help it make your point.

Mbruno 08-18-2020 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curryong (Post 2336658)
That is a matter of opinion. You are entitled to your opinion of course and I am entitled to mine. And in my opinion Angela Kelly has a great deal of power in the Royal Household while the Queen lives, and she knows it. And power can be misused by certain aides and officials within the Household.


Isn't that the reality of any organization though?



Many people know the classic Britcom "Yes, Minister" where we are told in a satyrical way that British ministers are just pawns in the hands of the civil servants who are the ones who actually run the show. And, if Downton Abbey is to be believed, it looked like valets and lady's maids were the actual lords/ladies of the house or so they thought as the show suggests they could manipulate the actual lord/lady to do their bidding whenever they wanted to.


Fiction aside, when Tony Blair became PM, there was a lot of tension with the permanent civil service because he introduced the American custom of bringing in outside consultants and advisors and gave them positions of power in Downing Street conflicting with the way the place was traditionally run before. That trend continued in other premierships, including nowadays with Boris Johnson, and is part of what is called the "Americanization" or "presidentialization" of the office of PM, which is still highly controversial in the UK.



Anyway, I am pretty sure the royal household has its own pecking order and some people, as in all Courts throughout the history of royalty, are favored even when the hierarchy is institutionally very clear and respected. Having said that, I don't think Angela Kelly did anything wrong or behaved improperly.

Mirabel 08-18-2020 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommy100 (Post 2336736)
The issue seems to be that Harry didn't feel Kelly has being accommodating enough to find a date or make herself available on the date they wanted but seemingly Meghan and he hairdresser, despite nothing being confirmed, still turned up asking for the tiara. Well of course, if only Angela is authorised to hand over jewels and she is at Windsor then there is a problem.



Really, I don't see why anyone would accuse Kelly of not being accommodating enough, if Meghan had five tiaras to choose from.

Kate only had three choices, so I don't see why she would be considered favored above Meghan.

poppy7 08-18-2020 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fem (Post 2336734)
So Omid is making rounds promoting Finding Freedom and talking about the book and BRF. As I finished the book, I finally got to the media reactions and interviews, that I didn't want to read before.

As the book was fairly negative towards Catherine - I find these comments from Omid very interesting:

“In Meghan’s refusal to do certain things- like show Archie the day he was born- and in sharing her feminist views- that made Kate look incredibly old fashioned,” he says, “And I think there have been many times in which Megan's progressiveness highlighted Kate's almost sort of past-era persona that she has as the perfect Duchess of Cambridge.”

“I think if Meghan had come in and was the subservient wife and did everything that she was supposed to, at all times and didn't question anything, it may have been different. But Meghan just wasn't ever going to fit that sort of cookie-cutter Duchess role.”

It wasn't even 10 years ago that we had this evil portrayal of Kate Middleton, modernizing the royal family, introducing new ways that were supposed to be the downfall of the monarchy. It's been almost 20 years of constant, very often negative and hurtful press, of mistakes and mishaps and ignoring the awful comments and hard work to come to the fact that she's a perfect "past-era persona" and fit in a "cookie-cutter Duchess role". And all I can think is that in many situations you'll find more success with soft words and steel spine, because that's what's allowing the person to move forward when the times get tough.


ETA: Source: https://www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/ar...edom-interview

Omid. Omid. Omid. Whatever. Yes they are different but Kate has her own charities and had worked in the most modern way to date, with William and Harry before, to bring these charities into a new working model.

I am.not sure exactly how Meghan was modernising. A person of colour (accidential), speaking out about matters (can be problematic), wanting to change the way the media operated (ill advised). Edited vogue (fluff). I thought the same when Kate was on the cover. So what, those things are nor important.

Sure she was great at her engagements. People thought she was great. She definitely worked hard. But she herself wasn't actually that modernising beyond the fact she is a new generation. She just wanted her own way and to deal with the media like a celebrity and to keep.working with American sensibilities when she was in a British context.

Helen.CH 08-18-2020 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 2336739)
Isn't that the reality of any organization though?



Many people know the classic Britcom "Yes, Minister" where we are told in a satyrical way that British ministers are just pawns in the hands of the civil servants who are the ones who actually run the show. And, if Downton Abbey is to be believed, it looked like valets and lady's maids were the actual lords/ladies of the house or so they thought as the show suggests they could manipulate the actual lord/lady to do their bidding whenever they wanted to.


Fiction aside, when Tony Blair became PM, there was a lot of tension with the permanent civil service because he introduced the American custom of bringing in outside consultants and advisors and gave them positions of power in Downing Street conflicting with the way the place was traditionally run before. That trend continued in other premierships, including nowadays with Boris Johnson, and is part of what is called the "Americanization" or "presidentialization" of the office of PM, which is still highly controversial in the UK.



Anyway, I am pretty sure the royal household has its own pecking order and some people, as in all Courts throughout the history of royalty, are favored even when the hierarchy is institutionally very clear and respected. Having said that, I don't think Angela Kelly did anything wrong or behaved improperly.

It is, there are even some the head has nothing to do but to function and as HM is said not to be too willing to disagree but rather addicted to harmony as we all are to a certain level of course plus there are structures to protect the head from many things who knows what happened.
i think its ridiculous how much energy is put into this tiara thing.
most probably it was a mixture of it all, misunderstandings, Harry expecting too much, Meghan being new and unpatient, a hairdresser who doesn't know his job, servants who ignored or used their power, plus kelly who was surely surprised by all this....

Heavs 08-18-2020 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppy7 (Post 2336741)
Omid. Omid. Omid. Whatever. Yes they are different but Kate has her own charities and had worked in the most modern way to date, with William and Harry before, to bring these charities into a new working model.

Always interesting the way that history gets rewritten. Now Kate's had a cookie cutter perfect life for a Duchess and gone about everything in a traditional, (read subservient and dull) way. But that wasn't the case a decade ago and before they were married there were stories that the "vipers/Men in Grey" or whatever you want to call them wanted to replace her with an aristocrat because it was too modern for a future Queen Consort to be from a self made family. And that's apart from anything else.

Quote:

Sure she was great at her engagements. People thought she was great. She definitely worked hard. But she herself wasn't actually that modernising beyond the fact she is a new generation. She just wanted her own way and to deal with the media like a celebrity and to keep.working with American sensibilities when she was in a British context.
The BIB is a good point whenever there has been a new generation come to take on duties and roles you can find people excited that "this is a new beginning and a modern take on the Monarchy (or anything else). She was very good at engagements and prepared for them well as was new and fresh and appeared enthusiastic. I just don't see how you can think that you can change a large organisation with so many moving parts and people that is also part of the government to suit your needs and goals in less than a year (maternity leave and planning to get out taken off). Never mind over everyone else's needs whether there's a hierarchy in place or not. Life just doesn't work that way in general in a lot of organisations or in a lot of families. That's without the probability that a lot of the changes they wanted to make might well have caused deep trouble constitutionally for the BRF and politics.

Quote:

IMO the more likely option d) Harry & Meghan are the original source, we are only hearing one side that overlooks something like the fact this was all in a tight time frame, that an extra date hadn't been discussed, it was their team dragging their feet or something that would make it all seem more understandable and is quite likely a bit of a filing on both sides (H&M and Kelly) and is really just a bit of a misunderstanding. Harry or Meghan have moaned / bragged either to Omid or friends who have then spoken to Omid, that an example of how they were mistreated is the tiara -
'we didn't get it when we wanted which was so inconvenient because the hairdresser was so fabulous he came from America and the slow Royal Household couldn't get us the tiara in time so we showed up (because thats what you do, thats what we nearly had to do when HM wouldn't see us after our stroppy demands went public you know!) and that mere employee Kelly wasn't even there to give it to us! Well what an inconvenience for us that my tiara wasn't ready, Harry was so furious he phoned the Queen to kick off.'

And that is where the narrative comes from, between their friends this is acceptable, it plays up to how hard done to H&M are and is just omitting a few facts so not lying in their eyes. Then suddenly this is being printed in a book and talked about and the public isn't (like their friends perhaps were) on H&Ms side but on HM's - how dare you speak to your grandmother like that, the tiara isn't yours but was being graciously loaned etc. So its time to say it didn't happen and give a - probably - more accurate telling but different from the one (slightly 'embellished') you were happy to tell to friends to help it make your point.
I think this is quite likely, although I personally think they were deliberately telling Omid this version and leaving out details that reflect badly on them just as other incidents we know about were either omitted or glossed over in the book.

I've done it myself leaving out the bits that don't fit my narrative to friends and sympathetic listeners. It's quite common when hearing stories like this to be "hey wait, there's something missing here" that changes the entire narrative.

Any version of the tiara story whether Harry shouted or not just shows the height of "if it's us it's ok if it's someone else doing the same thing they're out to get us" which pervaded a lot of the parts of book I read before giving up and the quotes and summaries I've read here.


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