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Somebody 07-31-2020 10:27 PM

Based on Omid's own words I am still convinced that information was exchanged between the couple and Omid in whatever way or form. However, I agree with Pranter and others that them not suing the authors isn't proof that they did provide information (directly and/or indirectly). While they might be prone to sue, they don't sue each and every person/entity that prints a story about them - if so, they would have far more lawsuits going on.

What are they supposed to sue about in this case (the book isn't even out yet)? Because if they sue, it must be about something that they can proof (and are willing to proof - as they've learned that lots of information that they might not want out in the open can be required) is false.

muriel 08-01-2020 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pranter (Post 2331247)
Omid has said 6 ways to Sunday they were not involved. He reiterated it again a couple days ago on Twitter. He's said it in interviews etc as well. You can feel free to ask him, he responds often on his Twitter account.


LaRae

That must make it true! :smile:

tommy100 08-01-2020 04:07 AM

The difference with Lady C's book was that it contained nothing new and was based largely on reports we had already read as gossip about the couple and making a huge fuss about it would actually just draw attention to a book that apart from on forums like this and the odd newspaper report few people had read or were that bothered about. This book has had huge coverage for several days in national and international media with all sources reporting the speculation as to whether H&M were involved at all.

In this book there are clearly details which (if true) could only have come from wither the couple or friends who are remarkably close to them in regular contact (to the extent they'd talk about whether or not they were in the bath when they messaged someone). As such by now, if they had nothing to do with the book, I'd have expected at least a denouncement of the facts by H&M or fallout from friends speaking out- if you want a quiet private life and your closest friends are reporting such minute details as those n the book I'd be telling them I want nothing more to do with them. Of course that could be happening in private so let's just wait and see. If the couple do an interview at any point in the future it would be interesting to see if anyone asks them outright.

As to Omid saying H&M weren't involved - didn't he say they weren't interviewed? Which leaves some wiggle room. Also this is the guy who lied to a Times newspaper reporter about his own age so I'm not yet taking everything he says (including the book) as fact. To be honest it gives credence to the fact the book could be full of lies - but if it is I'd have expected H&M to say so by now.

Denville 08-01-2020 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betsypaige (Post 2331199)
What do you mean by referencing Clarence House? How does Charles have anything to do with this?

I really doubt that Harry and Meghan opened up to staff; IF any staff contributed (and frankly I take anything Omid says with a huge shaker of salt), it's probably more along the lines of things they heard off-hand as opposed to directly from the horses' mouths.

This book is not going to help them. Omid and Durand may have intended one thing, but they're getting another. This book was supposed to be H and M's spin, lol.......that's the pathetic thing. You can not make a silk's purse from a sow's ear.

Tommy:



Most of America doesn't really care about the Monarchy and couldn't care less about Harry and Meghan. Now, in the middle of a devastating pandemic that is ruining lives and livelihoods......in the middle of racial and police crises[......] Now they think the book will help them? I'm sure they will have their fans (those who love Harry because of Diana and love Meghan because of Harry; let's face it, M was not exactly a household name before she dated him)........but most of America doesn't give a fig about them, and if they do read the book, will probably end up rolling their eyes.

They have moved ot the US and intend to work there so they are going to have build some kind of base there. If Americans dotn take any interest in them, how are they going to make a living? They need to be noticed, to have a profile so that they will get speaking engagements or other commercial deals.
I agree that its possible that even if they didn't deliberately help with the book, they at least are hopeful that Omid as a friend, will have produced a book which gives a sympathetic picture of "their side" which will attract Americans to like them and do business with them. And unless Omid made the whole thing up, he had some help from SOMEONE. Probably M and H's staff have spoken to him. Whether with their sanction or not.

Denville 08-01-2020 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pranter (Post 2331249)
If you think he's a liar and Carolyn is a liar that's up to you. Not a thing was said about you not being free to say what you think. I just pointed out what's been said and that you can easily pop over to Twitter and actually ask him or read his previous replies about it.


LaRae

Omid is not going to say taht H and Meg had a direct hand in the book.. and its possibly true, as it was true that Diana did not know Andrew Morton and had never spoken directly to him.. but she was the source for his book. ANd people said at the time that she must have known about it as her friends would not have talked freely without her say so...

Betsypaige 08-01-2020 06:29 AM

Omid has made his recent career on having inside information from Harry and Meghan..If he wrote this book without any sort of cooperation or consent from them, then he’s committing career suicide, since H and M would freeze him out. Then where would that leave him? There are other reasons that I believe H and M consented to the information in the book, but this is the most brutally practical one. This book is not worth the sacrifice of all the other information Omid would be getting over the years...

Denville 08-01-2020 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommy100 (Post 2331284)
The difference with Lady C's book was that it contained nothing new and was based largely on reports we had already read as gossip about the couple and making a huge fuss about it would actually just draw attention to a book that apart from on forums like this and the odd newspaper report few people had read or were that bothered about. This book has had huge coverage for several days in national and international media with all sources reporting the speculation as to whether H&M were involved at all.

In.

Ldy CC always writes something that has a great big chunk of fantasy in it.. its not unusual and AFAIK, she has no real connections with the RF..
If royals were to sue her every time she gets something wildly off beam, they'd do nothing else.
But this is indeed a book by a royal reporter and one who apparently is considered trustworthy and one of the few ones that H and M like.. He HAS got some contact with them, and Im sure also with friends and staff.
SO if his book is not reasonably accurate then if I were H and Meg I'd be annoyed. I'd feel "how can we trust ANYONE if this guy whom we liked and trusted, is making loads of stuff up or getting things wrong."
He may be using his imagination a little bit, over stuff like exactly how H and Meg felt about each other, but its not unreasonable to guess/assume that they felt an emotional connection and that things moved fast.
And I cant imagine him making up stuff about whether Meg was in the bath when she texted someone. That detail must have comes from someone who knew...

Denville 08-01-2020 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betsypaige (Post 2331311)
Omid has made his recent career on having inside information from Harry and Meghan..If he wrote this book without any sort of cooperation or consent from them, then he’s committing career suicide, since H and M would freeze him out. Then where would that leave him? There are other reasons that I believe H and M consented to the information in the book, but this is the most brutally practical one. This book is not worth the sacrifice of all the other information Omid would be getting over the years...

Possbily, if they feel that this book however it was intentioned, ISNT going to make them look good, they will give him the freeze anyway!

Heavs 08-01-2020 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denville (Post 2331292)
Omid is not going to say taht H and Meg had a direct hand in the book.. and its possibly true, as it was true that Diana did not know Andrew Morton and had never spoken directly to him.. but she was the source for his book. ANd people said at the time that she must have known about it as her friends would not have talked freely without her say so...

The fact that five friends of Meghan/the couple talked in detail to People Magazine almost certainly with her blessing is the subject of a court case right now. It's certainly not inconceivable that the same tactic "Will no one tell Omid Scobie our side of the story?!" was used here.

Combined with the details that could only come from sources *very* close to them and acknowledging some of the tabloid stories had some truth but going "here's the couple's side (no they aren't blaming HM!)" smacks of the People story as well.

You should *always* take books like this with a massive dose of salt but it's not like royals, celebrities and this couple in particular haven't done this before despite "nothing but the truth" denials from the writers.

If Omid was writing 99% fantasy fanfiction then it's not going to help his career very much.

Denville 08-01-2020 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heavs (Post 2331321)
The fact that five friends of Meghan/the couple talked in detail to People Magazine almost certainly with her blessing is the subject of a court case right now. It's certainly not inconceivable that the same tactic "Will no one tell Omid Scobie our side of the story?!" was used here.

Combined with the details that could only come from sources *very* close to them and acknowledging some of the tabloid stories had some truth but going "here's the couple's side (no they aren't blaming HM!)" smacks of the People story as well.

You should *always* take books like this with a massive dose of salt but it's not like royals, celebrities and this couple in particular haven't done this before despite "nothing but the truth" denials from the writers.

If Omid was writing 99% fantasy fanfiction then it's not going to help his career very much.

I dont think royal reportage is a career with high standards. However, Its possible that it was something like he approached Meg's friends and staff for info and they either decided off their own bat that Meg would want them to speak about her favorably, and did so... or that they asked her if she'd mind if they helped Omid with his new book and Meg consented because she believed the book would be favourable.

royal staff do leak at times usually I think because they want to boost "their particular Royal" in the press.. or defend them against negative comments.
And they do it sometimes with the tacit consent of their boss. Same with Friends. I think that Di's friends believed that speaking to Morton was going to help Diana, by putting out her story, and hinting that her marriage was in a bad way but not through her fault and that she was lonely and struggling to do a good job. But it probably would have been wiser had they not collabourated with Morton.

Pranter 08-01-2020 08:56 AM

This isn't just Omid's book....there's a co-author. From what I have understood she is fairly well thought of ...I don't think she has a history of lying etc. She has also said the same things Omid has.



LaRae

Betsypaige 08-01-2020 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denville (Post 2331314)
Possbily, if they feel that this book however it was intentioned, ISNT going to make them look good, they will give him the freeze anyway!

With their history, if I'm at all close to them, I wonder when I'll get the freeze......because it doesn't take much with Harry and Meghan to suddenly be cut out of their lives.

QueenMathilde 08-01-2020 12:49 PM

The thing that annoys me the most is that the papers that support them keep saying she "put up with abuse for years". She was barely in the royal family she didn't put up with anything. They left right away.

US Royal Watcher 08-01-2020 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pranter (Post 2331341)
This isn't just Omid's book....there's a co-author. From what I have understood she is fairly well thought of ...I don't think she has a history of lying etc. She has also said the same things Omid has.

LaRae

I understand but her reliability cuts both ways. If the authors are reliable, then we can trust that the stories, such as Meghan communicating with people while bathing bath and Harry's lunch with the Queen, are accurate. Given the intimate detail, if the source(s) weren't Harry and Meghan themselves, it would have to be avery trusted friend. Since I doubt that close of a friend would betray them without their confidence, that indicates that Harry and Meghan indirectly cooperated with the book.

Pranter 08-01-2020 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher (Post 2331366)
I understand but her reliability cuts both ways. If the authors are reliable, then we can trust that the stories, such as Meghan communicating with people while bathing bath and Harry's lunch with the Queen, are accurate. Given the intimate detail, if the source(s) weren't Harry and Meghan themselves, it would have to be avery trusted friend. Since I doubt that close of a friend would betray them without their confidence, that indicates that Harry and Meghan indirectly cooperated with the book.


Omid has said a couple times now (at least) that some of the stories being put out by the tabloids are not accurate to what the book says. He's been pretty adamant about it.

Stories can come from anyone on the inside...and that doesn't automatically mean The Sussexes. It's not exactly unheard of for staff or even family members to talk behind the scenes so to speak.


LaRae

Denville 08-01-2020 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pranter (Post 2331403)
Omid has said a couple times now (at least) that some of the stories being put out by the tabloids are not accurate to what the book says. He's been pretty adamant about it.

Stories can come from anyone on the inside...and that doesn't automatically mean The Sussexes. It's not exactly unheard of for staff or even family members to talk behind the scenes so to speak.


LaRae

Assuming that some of the stories ARE accurate, it seems that Meg and Harry's staff or friends must be talking. I can't imagine Omid deciding to make up a story about Meg being a bath when she texts someone...

Pranter 08-01-2020 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denville (Post 2331404)
Assuming that some of the stories ARE accurate, it seems that Meg and Harry's staff or friends must be talking. I can't imagine Omid deciding to make up a story about Meg being a bath when she texts someone...

Assuming what you are talking about is true...until I read the book myself to see what it really says, I don't trust the media/tabloid take on things since we know they distort and twist to suit their own agendas...and they have not read the book either.

If ppl were talking it's very possible it's staff, friends or even family on the inside of 'palace doors'.



LaRae

Madame Verseau 08-01-2020 06:35 PM

Campbell' s book must not be selling well for her to complain. I guess she thought hers would be the definitive book on the Sussexes.

Curryong 08-01-2020 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenMathilde (Post 2331363)
The thing that annoys me the most is that the papers that support them keep saying she "put up with abuse for years". She was barely in the royal family she didn't put up with anything. They left right away.

The Sussexes didn't 'leave right away' at all. Meghan and Harry were engaged in November 2017. She took part in some events with the Royal Family during her engagement. The couple married in May 2018 and didn't leave the Royal Family until the end of March 2020.

poppy7 08-01-2020 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curryong (Post 2331414)
The Sussexes didn't 'leave right away' at all. Meghan and Harry were engaged in November 2017. She took part in some events with the Royal Family during her engagement. The couple married in May 2018 and didn't leave the Royal Family until the end of March 2020.

They didn't do a lot really. Two trips, a couple, of events, the beginnings of some charity work. She was on maternity, quite rightly, for quite a large proportion. They were only beginning. Sad.

Somebody 08-01-2020 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curryong (Post 2331414)
The Sussexes didn't 'leave right away' at all. Meghan and Harry were engaged in November 2017. She took part in some events with the Royal Family during her engagement. The couple married in May 2018 and didn't leave the Royal Family until the end of March 2020.

They formally didn't leave until end of March but in practice they left the UK after 1 1/2 years (November 2019): Meghan didn't have that many activities in her final year which included both her maternity leave and an extended stay in Canada; so what remains is some behind the scenes projects, their Southern Africa tour and a few other engagements in September/October and some final ones in March.

Given that she made a commitment for a lifetime in May 2018, I would say she at least left very soon...

Mbruno 08-01-2020 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somebody (Post 2331423)
They formally didn't leave until end of March but in practice they left the UK after 1 1/2 years (November 2019): Meghan didn't have that many activities in her final year which included both her maternity leave and an extended stay in Canada; so what remains is some behind the scenes projects, their Southern Africa tour and a few other engagements in September/October and some final ones in March.

Given that she made a commitment for a lifetime in May 2018, I would say she at least left very soon...


Well, she is definitely not getting the Royal Victorian Order for personal service to the Crown.

hel 08-01-2020 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pranter (Post 2331405)
Assuming what you are talking about is true...until I read the book myself to see what it really says, I don't trust the media/tabloid take on things since we know they distort and twist to suit their own agendas...and they have not read the book either.

If ppl were talking it's very possible it's staff, friends or even family on the inside of 'palace doors'.



LaRae

The bath story is literally from a Times exerpt that is bylined Omid Scobie and Carolyn Durant. It's not a description of a story in the book; it is the book.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/m...arry-cc8ctfd6t

Quote:

Sitting in a bath later that night, FaceTiming with a friend, the bride-to-be said she had left her dad a final message, adding: “I can’t sit up all night just pressing send.”
To be clear, the only people this could have come from are Meghan or the friend. It couldn't be someone "behind palace doors" because this conversation - if we are taking Scobie and Durant as reliable narrators - happened the night before the wedding, when Meghan was at the Cliveden House Hotel.

Madame Verseau 08-01-2020 08:24 PM

Another Markle has surfaced regarding the book. Jr is saying Dad is done with the Sussexes

https://www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampp...homas-Jnr.html

First Dad is acting as a witness for Daily Mail in Meghan's lawsuit. How could he except a relationship after that? Meghan is probably advised by her lawyers not to talk to him or risk the appearance of witness tampering. Dad is probably mad that another publication showing multiple people are trashing him (either the five in the lawsuit or a new batch). No telling what else is in the book about him when it's released. Now he wants to travel the world. Good luck during a pandemic.

Sun Lion 08-01-2020 08:27 PM

Really glad to see the Royal Family defending Ms Kelly ...

"But last night a Royal source pointedly said: 'The book's version of what happened would not be everyone else's recollection of events and certainly not those who were close to it'".

A friend of the Susseses says the hairdresser had been flown over from Paris for a practice session and they were frustrated at not having a tiara to use.

"Angela Kelly said she couldn't come to London and Harry went ballistic".

"Meghan demanded access to the tiara ... Harry was very quick to let everybody know of his anger and frustration ... ringing others to put pressure on Angela to bend the rules."

There are a lot of details in the article actually so I won't quote any more, you can read it if interested.

The whole thing appears to have been the Sussexes not following protocol, being awful to people in postions of lesser power, and the Prince ending up getting a dressing-down from Her Majesty.

The Sussexes are so embarrasing to themselves, all this hellish behaviour being dragged out and exposed.

But so good Ms Kelly is being shown to be the innocent party in all the Sussexes' dramatics.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sest-aide.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by hel (Post 2331432)
The bath story is literally from a Times exerpt that is bylined Omid Scobie and Carolyn Durant. It's not a description of a story in the book; it is the book.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/m...arry-cc8ctfd6t



To be clear, the only people this could have come from are Meghan or the friend. It couldn't be someone "behind palace doors" because this conversation - if we are taking Scobie and Durant as reliable narrators - happened the night before the wedding, when Meghan was at the Cliveden House Hotel.


Totally agree hel.

It's now become impossible to defend the Duke and Duchess of Sussex as not being involved with "Finding Freedom".

The alternative is Mr Sobie and Ms Durand are nuts, making up stuff at this level of detail.

And the publishing house and their lawyers, "The Times" and "The Sunday Times" and their lawyers, serious professionals, all going along with it. Why would they? They'd have to be nuts too.

Time to give up trying to sell this idea that the Sussexes didn't speak and that they don't have their hands all over this. That view has been blown out of the water by each new snippet and anecdote.

QueenMathilde 08-01-2020 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curryong (Post 2331414)
The Sussexes didn't 'leave right away' at all. Meghan and Harry were engaged in November 2017. She took part in some events with the Royal Family during her engagement. The couple married in May 2018 and didn't leave the Royal Family until the end of March 2020.


Oh stop it. She wasn't there for years. She was barely there. As for the part where it was before she was engaged SHE was the one who put it out there she was dating Harry. I remember it. She could have kept those years under wraps.



She made little effort to be a member of the royal family. The rest of them put up with all sorts of crap for want of a better word. Those related to the queen and those married on. No wonder why she irritated them so much.

US Royal Watcher 08-01-2020 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pranter (Post 2331403)
Omid has said a couple times now (at least) that some of the stories being put out by the tabloids are not accurate to what the book says. He's been pretty adamant about it.

Stories can come from anyone on the inside...and that doesn't automatically mean The Sussexes. It's not exactly unheard of for staff or even family members to talk behind the scenes so to speak.


LaRae

I agree that it is very possible that Meghan and Harry did not talk directly with the authors. However, I think that is a distinction without a difference. The issue is whether they assisted the authors by allowing friends and family (Doria) to communicate with them. We may never know for sure.

Curryong 08-02-2020 12:24 AM

[QUOTE=QueenMathilde;2331448]Oh stop it. She wasn't there for years. She was barely there. As for the part where it was before she was engaged SHE was the one who put it out there she was dating Harry. I remember it. She could have kept those years under wraps. Quote.

Camilla Tominay broke the news of Harry and Meghan's dating in the Express in October 2016. Meghan didn't say so. It was confirmed by Harry the next month when he wrote an open letter from KP condemning the harrassment and racial abuse by the British Press (tabloids.) Meghan hadn't made any Press statements.

Betsypaige 08-02-2020 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somebody (Post 2331423)
They formally didn't leave until end of March but in practice they left the UK after 1 1/2 years (November 2019): Meghan didn't have that many activities in her final year which included both her maternity leave and an extended stay in Canada; so what remains is some behind the scenes projects, their Southern Africa tour and a few other engagements in September/October and some final ones in March.

Given that she made a commitment for a lifetime in May 2018, I would say she at least left very soon...

AND, they must have been planning the exit for months before January, so they didn’t even give it 1 1/2 years

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Lion (Post 2331435)
Really glad to see the Royal Family defending Ms Kelly ...

"But last night a Royal source pointedly said: 'The book's version of what happened would not be everyone else's recollection of events and certainly not those who were close to it'".

A friend of the Susseses says the hairdresser had been flown over from Paris for a practice session and they were frustrated at not having a tiara to use.

"Angela Kelly said she couldn't come to London and Harry went ballistic".

"Meghan demanded access to the tiara ... Harry was very quick to let everybody know of his anger and frustration ... ringing others to put pressure on Angela to bend the rules."

There are a lot of details in the article actually so I won't quote any more, you can read it if interested.

The whole thing appears to have been the Sussexes not following protocol, being awful to people in postions of lesser power, and the Prince ending up getting a dressing-down from Her Majesty.

The Sussexes are so embarrasing to themselves, all this hellish behaviour being dragged out and exposed.

But so good Ms Kelly is being shown to be the innocent party in all the Sussexes' dramatics.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sest-aide.html


It seems like Harry flies into rages a lot...he has anger management issues, and frankly, both he and Meghan need lessons on how to treat people. It’s really disturbing how rude they are to those of lower rank. Another issue - they just can’t handle the word NO. When someone tells them they can’t do something or have something, even when there’s a reason for it, they take offense to that and consider it bad treatment. It’s ugly, ugly behavior.

I’m so glad HM dressed Harry down - her grandson is out of control.

Curryong 08-02-2020 01:51 AM

Why should we believe this article in the Fail any more than all the previous articles in that newspaper that alleged that Meghan and the Queen had a row about an emerald tiara? Tossing around words like 'Royal source' in today's article by Emily Andrews doesn't make it the truth. Emily Andrews has made up several stories in her time.

And Meghan wasn't screaming and shouting, it's Harry that's the villain in this latest episode of 'what the papers say'. If it was Harry all along then it says a lot about Palace staff that they allowed her to be the focus of arguments about choosing tiaras when they have known 'the truth' since May 2018.

Sun Lion 08-02-2020 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betsypaige (Post 2331474)
It seems like Harry flies into rages a lot...he has anger management issues, and frankly, both he and Meghan need lessons on how to treat people. It’s really disturbing how rude they are to those of lower rank. Another issue - they just can’t handle the word NO. When someone tells them they can’t do something or have something, even when there’s a reason for it, they take offense to that and consider it bad treatment. It’s ugly, ugly behavior.

I’m so glad HM dressed Harry down - her grandson is out of control.


I agree with you Betsypaige.

I'm glad Kate stood up for a staff member when Meghan got out of line and that the Queen stood up for another staff member when Harry got out of line.

Good to know the staff are taken care of by the Royals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curryong (Post 2331476)
Why should we believe this article in the Fail any more than all the previous articles in that newspaper that alleged that Meghan and the Queen had a row about an emerald tiara? Tossing around words like 'Royal source' in today's article by Emily Andrews doesn't make it the truth. Emily Andrews has made up several stories in her time.

And Meghan wasn't screaming and shouting, it's Harry that's the villain in this latest episode of 'what the papers say'. If it was Harry all along then it says a lot about Palace staff that they allowed her to be the focus of arguments about choosing tiaras when they have known 'the truth' since May 2018.


It was a friend of the Sussexes being quoted as saying that Harry went "ballistic" Curryong.

Duke of Marmalade 08-02-2020 02:00 AM

It perfectly fits into the 'what Meghan wants, Meghan gets' quote, I can totally believe it.

Osipi 08-02-2020 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Lion (Post 2331478)
It was a friend of the Sussexes being quoted as saying that Harry went "ballistic" Curryong.

Unless the "friend" was actually named, the statement remains as questionable and not credible information. Did someone actually *see* Harry go ballistic or did the story grow from a whispered game of telephone?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade (Post 2331479)
It perfectly fits into the 'what Meghan wants, Meghan gets' quote, I can totally believe it.

Y'know, I've never bought into the statement "What Meghan wants, Meghan gets" in the context that its been portrayed since someone reported Harry to have said that. How I interpreted it is that, like many bridegrooms- to-be, he just wanted Meghan to have the wedding details to be as what would make her happy. If Meghan had wanted a Betazoid wedding, Harry would probably have complied but I do think that both of them would have gotten a lot of flak for it especially as the wedding was going to be televised. :biggrin:

Alison H 08-02-2020 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Lion (Post 2331435)

"Angela Kelly said she couldn't come to London and Harry went ballistic".

"Meghan demanded access to the tiara ... Harry was very quick to let everybody know of his anger and frustration ... ringing others to put pressure on Angela to bend the rules."

That's awful. That's just bullying. A lot of people get Bridezilla-ish, and Meghan wouldn't be the first person who'd upset the mother of one of the bridesmaids over clothes or hair or whatever, but for Harry to hassle a member of staff like that is very poor. It must have been very awkward and upsetting for Angela Kelly. If they were that desperate for a tiara just to practise the hairstyle with, you can get cheap ones from kids' accessories shops!

Lilyflo 08-02-2020 03:42 AM

If the Angela Kelly/tiara story is true, it's another example of what I referred to previously about Harry being the least qualified person to guide Meghan into her role. To be fair, reports of Charles flying into rages at staff are numerous so his own role-model hasn't been brilliant either. It's interesting though isn't it that it was Meghan who has been vilified in the global press for throwing a tantrum about not getting the tiara she wanted and being 'slapped down' by the Queen for it.

RandyDrx 08-02-2020 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curryong (Post 2331470)
Camilla Tominay broke the news of Harry and Meghan's dating in the Express in October 2016. Meghan didn't say so. It was confirmed by Harry the next month when he wrote an open letter from KP condemning the harrassment and racial abuse by the British Press (tabloids.) Meghan hadn't made any Press statements.


Simply because Meghan gave so many hints on Instagram:

1. Wearing matching bracelets.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/...-m-2.jpg?w=620

2. Posting a picture of a guy with a similar profile to Harry.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/...nsta.jpg?w=620

3. Posting a picture of her dog wearing a Union Jack jumper.
https://ugc-01.cafemomstatic.com/gen...v73hcnk02h.png

4. Posting a picture about Brexit.
https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img...le-1188758.jpg

5. Posting a picture of peonies in London.
https://66.media.tumblr.com/7f42d691...7udo1_1280.png

Denville 08-02-2020 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pranter (Post 2331405)
Assuming what you are talking about is true...until I read the book myself to see what it really says, I don't trust the media/tabloid take on things since we know they distort and twist to suit their own agendas...and they have not read the book either.

If ppl were talking it's very possible it's staff, friends or even family on the inside of 'palace doors'.



LaRae

yes taht's waht I said, staff or friends....

Denville 08-02-2020 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppy7 (Post 2331416)
They didn't do a lot really. Two trips, a couple, of events, the beginnings of some charity work. She was on maternity, quite rightly, for quite a large proportion. They were only beginning. Sad.

Its not so much how much work they did, but it seems likely that they were planning a getaway several months AT LEAST before they announced it in January. Possibly there was never a real commitment to the job, I think that Meg may have always intended to pull out of it on a full time basis...
Perhaps she genuinely believed that after a couple of years to raise her profile she and Harry could leave the full time job and be part time business people. Its possible that she didn't realise that that would note be allowed, and what is more dismaying is that Harry didn't seem to realise it either..
He should have put Meg straight on this, but it seems like he too believed it would be possible.
And possibly they intended to stick it out a little longer, but wanted to be part time but when Meg found she wasn't getting as much favourable press as she expected and so on, she wanted to make a quick exit and perhaps she never wanted to come back...

Lilyflo 08-02-2020 05:10 AM

[...]

The shocking bit (if true) is the total lack of planning/communication over when the tiara would be available and for that, nobody should blame a woman who wouldn't have a clue about protocol over keys to royal jewellery. It's Harry's fault for assuming he could just get them unlocked when it suited him and that's probably why he was so enraged because his error was exposed in front of Meghan.

tommy100 08-02-2020 05:48 AM

I suspect the issue perhaps centered around the fact that it seems so few people have access to the jewels so H&M possibly just assumed they could just turn up at BP and there would be plenty of people to open the "vault" and give them the tiara when the hairdresser turned up. However it seems only Angela (and HM herself I suspect) have keys/access and given she was either at Windsor with HM or at her own grace & favour home at Windsor she, quite understandably, wasn't going to undertake a 40 mile round trip with no notice.

In itself the issue isn't that a mistake was made on H&M's part not to forward think about access to the tiara before it was too late. I would expect there to be better organisation between them/their office and Kelly but weddings are stressful and it seems not to be the first thing the was a bit rushed about the wedding. Its the attitude and language used that causes issues because getting stroppy and rude to a member of staff for something that is not her fault is just downright rude (not to say stupid given how close Angela Kelly is said to be to HM) and really shows Harry in a bad light.

Hallo girl 08-02-2020 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppy7 (Post 2331524)
Wouldn't know. But she may have just thought she could ask for it. Or didn't think.

I agree, I dont think there was any big plan to refuse Meghan, or that she was demanding. IMO the hairdresser or whoever needed to come over at a certain time and Meghan thought all she had to do was ask for the Tiara to be brought over, not appreciating it was not as straight forward as that.

Jacknch 08-02-2020 06:48 AM

A number of posts have been deleted which were off topic.

Recent discussion centres around the tiara Meghan chose for her wedding. However, this should NOT result in a broader discussion about her hairdresser, wedding dress or indeed the wedding dresses of other members of the royal family.

In order for ALL members to keep up to date with the various themes contained in the book, we MUST stay on topic. Thank you.

Denville 08-02-2020 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilyflo (Post 2331495)
If the Angela Kelly/tiara story is true, it's another example of what I referred to previously about Harry being the least qualified person to guide Meghan into her role. To be fair, reports of Charles flying into rages at staff are numerous so his own role-model hasn't been brilliant either. It's interesting though isn't it that it was Meghan who has been vilified in the global press for throwing a tantrum about not getting the tiara she wanted and being 'slapped down' by the Queen for it.

I think that ratehr than "What Meghan wants Meg gets" it would be more accurate to say that Harry and Meg both think that they should have whatever they want..... and get annoyed at any refusals.
And in some ways H is more to blame, because he is a royal and should know the restrictions of the role.. whereas there's some excuse for Meg not knowing them. I dont know if He is so attached to Meg that he is sometimes afraid to put her straight on things, because he is so happy that she has married him.. and does not want to lose her...or whether he honestly doesn't know that the job comes with restrictions and rules..
Im very confused about them, as they are so volatile.. I dont know if the decision to leave was a really long standing plan.. maybe thought up by both of them at the time of marriage ro soon after.. Maybe he said to her "OK, this job will have restrictions but we can get out of it in a few years"...
OR maybe she got angry and upset soon after her marriage and wanted out so he was willing to go along with it..

Pranter 08-02-2020 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denville (Post 2331507)
yes taht's waht I said, staff or friends....

And family on the inside...


LaRae

Kataryn 08-02-2020 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osipi (Post 2331485)
Unless the "friend" was actually named, the statement remains as questionable and not credible information. Did someone actually *see* Harry go ballistic or did the story grow from a whispered game of telephone?



Y'know, I've never bought into the statement "What Meghan wants, Meghan gets" in the context that its been portrayed since someone reported Harry to have said that. How I interpreted it is that, like many bridegrooms- to-be, he just wanted Meghan to have the wedding details to be as what would make her happy. If Meghan had wanted a Betazoid wedding, Harry would probably have complied but I do think that both of them would have gotten a lot of flak for it especially as the wedding was going to be televised. :biggrin:


Do you think too many readers are actually Treckies or have an ide3a what is so special on a Betazoid wedding???:biggrin::biggrin:

Denville 08-02-2020 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pranter (Post 2331554)
And family on the inside...


LaRae

I'm not sure why family would talk to a reporter when they very rarely do...As I've said, i think that if approached by Omid, the staff might feel that Meg and H would want them to speak and put forward a favourable view of the couple.. and friends might do the same.

Mbruno 08-02-2020 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kataryn (Post 2331555)
Do you think too many readers are actually Treckies or have an ide3a what is so special on a Betazoid wedding???:biggrin::biggrin:


I am not really a Trekkie, but I know about Betazed weddings. I understand ST is not such a part of popular culture in Europe as it is in America. Should the OP have used a Dr Who reference instead?

Osipi 08-02-2020 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 2331571)
I am not really a Trekkie, but I know about Betazed weddings. I understand ST is not such a part of popular culture in Europe as it is in America. Should the OP have used a Dr Who reference instead?

Just was using an example of a really far out in left galaxy wedding idea that Harry may have gone along with to please Meghan but the rest of us would be wondering if they both should be suited up in pristine white jackets with shiny buckles. :biggrin:

I took Kataryn's post to indicate she knew exactly what I was talking about hence the :biggrin: :biggrin:

BTW: Us Americans also have different meanings for words spelled differently. Naked means you don't have clothes on. Nekkid means you're up to something. :lol:

Moonmaiden23 08-02-2020 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilyflo (Post 2331510)
[...]

The shocking bit (if true) is the total lack of planning/communication over when the tiara would be available and for that, nobody should blame a woman who wouldn't have a clue about protocol over keys to royal jewellery. It's Harry's fault for assuming he could just get them unlocked when it suited him and that's probably why he was so enraged because his error was exposed in front of Meghan.

I distinctly remember reading that Kate and her hairdressing team used a toy tiara to practice with in the runup to the wedding...why was Serge Norment unwilling to consider this?

Were they unable to locate a "tinsel tiara" or was there something about the hairstyle itself that necessitated having the real one handy?

In any case IF this story is authentic, it reflects badly on Harry and not Meghan. How was she to know/understand the protocol of obtaining access to Royal tiaras? Even before he met Meghan I have always gotten the whiff of a truculent, cosseted, not overly bright brat from Harry. I am glad to hear that the queen is not shy about putting him in his place.

This is purely Harry's faux faux pas. Not Meghan's.

Duchess_Watcher 08-02-2020 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pranter (Post 2330803)
Yes and you are choosing to think he is lying based on no evidence or anything to support it.


LaRae

Sorry but he's a good friend of Meghan. How in the heck would anyone know this much private information? Two answers

1. They leaked it to him and he covered for them
2. They leaked it to a friend or Doria and she leaked it to Omid

Either way if they claim they want freedom/privacy, they leaked private information behind the castle/palace grounds and it's attempting to hurt the reputation of William, Kate and the Royal Family. Who else would know that information???

Quote:

Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher (Post 2331042)
To clarify, I am convinced they collaborated. However, people sometimes forget that Charles openly worked with the Dimbleby book, which was critical of the queen and Prince Philip. It took a few years but the relationship has recovered. Harry and Meghan's intent may have been to gain an advantage over other family members but the revelations are pretty mild. If the nastiest thing he can say about Kate is that she didn't take Meghan shopping - she must be a saint.

But the book implies racism towards the Royal family. That one quote is quite damning and it seems Harry/Meghan are upset so they want to harm Kate & William. The comment where Harry claims "William is a snob" for telling his brother not to rush into a marriage um it's likely because he saw they were moving fast and he/Kate have 10 years of history before getting married. Then they complained they didn't get the best royal events umm okay you're sixth in line Harry. You're behind the Queen, Charles, Camila Kate and William. Heck he's now even further down because of William's kids. I will say Meghan was jealous of Kate and she didn't like the how the RF works and she hated standing behind Kate. There's a lot of photos of her unhappy.

I think the book burns all bridges. The Sussex title will be removed, heck they may not ever go back to London and just imagine when William takes the throne later in life. I feel bad for Archie. He's growing up without his cousins and the other half of his family. He'll be wondering why his cousins are Prince, Princesses and he's not, and he won't have any relationship with them.

[...]

Mbruno 08-02-2020 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duchess_Watcher (Post 2331581)

I think the book burns all bridges. The Sussex title will be removed, heck they may not ever go back to London and just imagine when William takes the throne later in life. I feel bad for Archie. He's growing up without his cousins and the other half of his family. He'll be wondering why his cousins are Prince, Princesses and he's not, and he won't have any relationship with them.

[...]

This has been discussed before, but the Sussex title cannot be removed other than by an act of Parliament. I doubt the British government would sponsor a bill to do it.

Harry's title of Prince and the style of HRH can be removed, but I don't think the Queen would do it. I am afraid Archie won't be a prince though when Charles is King, but that is not entirely new as there is already a precedent with James Severn and Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor.


Archie will probably be a duke one day, but the title won't be of much use to him if he grows up and lives in America, which is pretty much a given IMHO.

Denville 08-02-2020 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duchess_Watcher (Post 2331581)
But the book implies racism towards the Royal family. That one quote is quite damning and it seems Harry/Meghan are upset so they want to harm Kate & William. The comment where Harry claims "William is a snob" for telling his brother not to rush into a marriage um it's likely because he saw they were moving fast and he/Kate have 10 years of history before getting married. Then they complained they didn't get the best royal events umm okay you're sixth in line Harry. You're behind the Queen, Charles, Camila Kate and William. Heck he's now even further down because of William's kids. I will say Meghan was jealous of Kate and she didn't like the how the RF works and she hated standing behind Kate. There's a lot of photos of her unhappy.

I think the book burns all bridges. The Sussex title will be removed, heck they may not ever go back to London and just imagine when William takes the throne later in life. I feel bad for Archie. He's growing up without his cousins and the other half of his family. He'll be wondering why his cousins are Prince, Princesses and he's not, and he won't have any relationship with them.

[...]

Its most unlikely that the "Sussex title" will be removed. That has to be done by Parliament and they have other concerns right now. And the queen has not removed Andrews HRH SO its unlikely that she would remove Harry's..
As for Meghan, I cant say I've seen her looking unhappy though I think she was... A lot of the times when H is looking cross or depressed Meg is smiling away gamely...

Heavs 08-02-2020 11:13 AM

If at all true the latest bit about the tiara reflects badly on both of them though obviously much worse on Harry on all fronts, especially being nasty to a woman who isn't even his member of staff and has 1001 and one things to oversee. However it also it says "Meghan demanded access to the tiara" which isn't great if it isn't yours to begin with. It appears to be a sequel to the original "choosing the tiara" uproar which is talked about in the book and also Dan Wooten is standing by his version of events for whatever it's worth.

They won't have their titles removed, though they might get reminded from time to time about using them in commercial contexts. It seems that the BRF isn't exactly happy with the book as this is not the first piece firing back a bit, but we have no way of really knowing how they feel. This isn't the first attempted hit piece or very slanted POV and won't be the last.

Duchess_Watcher 08-02-2020 11:18 AM

If the Queen wants it removed, she will get it removed and the Parliament will follow. The difference between Prince Andrew is that he isn't attacking the other members of his family as they are. The book clearly comes from them or someone they told this information to and it's attempting to harm the future King/Queen.

Anyhow, couldn't they lose their titles in America?

[...]

Osipi 08-02-2020 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duchess_Watcher (Post 2331604)
If the Queen wants it removed, she will get it removed and the Parliament will follow. The difference between Prince Andrew is that he isn't attacking the other members of his family as they are. The book clearly comes from them or someone they told this information to and it's attempting to harm the future King/Queen.

Anyhow, couldn't they lose their titles in America?

[...]

Their titles will *not* be removed. Can I make a suggestion? There's a good thread here that goes into details how titles and styles work in the UK. It can be found here: https://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...itles-258.html

Denville 08-02-2020 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duchess_Watcher (Post 2331604)
If the Queen wants it removed, she will get it removed and the Parliament will follow. The difference between Prince Andrew is that he isn't attacking the other members of his family as they are. The book clearly comes from them or someone they told this information to and it's attempting to harm the future King/Queen.

Anyhow, couldn't they lose their titles in America?

[...]

The queen is not going to interfere in Parliament at any time.. esp now with crises all over the world. Eugenie and Bea's husbands are not going to be given titles and its unlikely that they will be doing any royal work...
And as for "Losing their titles in America" no, America has no power to remove titles.
Possibly that was Meg's intention.. but she's in essence left the RF now.. and she's unlikely to return to UK or royal work.

Duchess_Watcher 08-02-2020 11:52 AM

[...]
I do think it was Meghan's goal to always leave the UK. Even before she was married to Harry they had to make a statement. She wanted the title, fame, Prince but not the royal part and she's partly been given her way.

One of the comments in the book is about her and Kate being on "Equal footing" or something so she thought they would have bonded more. They really aren't on equal footing minus the same title, Kate will one day be a Princess and future Queen.

I am shocked how little regard Harry has for the monarchy he was raised in. He seemed bitter that his brother had better events. Like he should have known William would be King. I wonder if Meghan has been egging him on that he is a lesser.

Osipi 08-02-2020 11:56 AM

Catherine is already a princess of the UK. Princess William. :smile:

Denville 08-02-2020 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osipi (Post 2331620)
Catherine is already a princess of the UK. Princess William. :smile:

Both of them are Princesses of the UK by marriage...

Denville 08-02-2020 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duchess_Watcher (Post 2331618)
One of the comments in the book is about her and Kate being on "Equal footing" or something so she thought they would have bonded more. They really aren't on equal footing minus the same title, Kate will one day be a Princess and future Queen.

I am shocked how little regard Harry has for the monarchy he was raised in. He seemed bitter that his brother had better events. Like he should have known William would be King. I wonder if Meghan has been egging him on that he is a lesser.

so why regret that they've left? IMO they didn't have potential.. because I felt that Meg (even if we allow her the best of intentions) didn't really understand the RF or the UK.. and might find it too hard to adjust.. and I feel that probably I was right. either she never intended to stay.. or she did intend to at least stay part time but found the UK so uncongenial that she couldn't stick it out.. and IM not too sure that Harry really had potential either.. He has akind heart but IMO he seems not to understand the RF much better than MEg does......

Betsypaige 08-02-2020 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 (Post 2331575)
I distinctly remember reading that Kate and her hairdressing team used a toy tiara to practice with in the runup to the wedding...why was Serge Norment unwilling to consider this?

Were they unable to locate a "tinsel tiara" or was there something about the hairstyle itself that necessitated having the real one handy?

In any case IF this story is authentic, it reflects badly on Harry and not Meghan. How was she to know/understand the protocol of obtaining access to Royal tiaras? Even before he met Meghan I have always gotten the whiff of a truculent, cosseted, not overly bright brat from Harry. I am glad to hear that the queen is not shy about putting him in his place.

This is purely Harry's faux faux pas. Not Meghan's.

No, it reflects badly on her for throwing a tantrum...it reflects badly on both of them. They are spoiled, rude, entitled, self-absorbed ...I could go on.

Duchess_Watcher 08-02-2020 12:13 PM

I mean one day Kate will be Princess of Wales, I am sure William will want her to take that title. Camila is entitled to it but no way she'd ever take it of course.

I do think that Meghan did not do enough research on the monarchy. She's an American actress, she seems to think she could just pop in and do as she pleases. It's a tradition and it is unlike any other. She doesn't understand they follow order and Harry's place in line is irrelevant. The only ones who really matter are Queen Elizabeth, Charles, William, George, Charlotte, Louis. Now Prince Harry should have known this - even Phillip, Camila and Kate don't mean much, but Kate could mean something if William dies and she could be the Queen mother but as soon as George is 18 she's irrelevant in the grand sense. She should have done some research on her status.

Duchess_Watcher 08-02-2020 12:16 PM

But to be fair if she wanted to she could have seen herself as a higher status. Her kids could have been Prince and Princess. She'd be the mother to kids in line and their kids would be cousins of the King. Maybe just maybe if Charles is King, he would have them reconsider and as the brothers get older they'll want to repair things for them, their wives and kids.

Osipi 08-02-2020 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duchess_Watcher (Post 2331628)
I mean one day Kate will be Princess of Wales, I am sure William will want her to take that title. Camila is entitled to it but no way she'd ever take it of course.

I do think that Meghan did not do enough research on the monarchy. She's an American actress, she seems to think she could just pop in and do as she pleases. It's a tradition and it is unlike any other. She doesn't understand they follow order and Harry's place in line is irrelevant. The only ones who really matter are Queen Elizabeth, Charles, William, George, Charlotte, Louis. Now Prince Harry should have known this - even Phillip, Camila and Kate don't mean much, but Kate could mean something if William dies and she could be the Queen mother but as soon as George is 18 she's irrelevant in the grand sense. She should have done some research on her status.

Camilla, for your information, *is* The Princess of Wales because she is married to The Prince of Wales. Camilla chose to be styled as The Duchess of Cornwall because she is married to The Duke of Cornwall.

There is also a good thread that goes into detail about the order of precedence. It can be found here: https://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...-who-5580.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duchess_Watcher (Post 2331630)
But to be fair if she wanted to she could have seen herself as a higher status. Her kids could have been Prince and Princess. She'd be the mother to kids in line and their kids would be cousins of the King. Maybe just maybe if Charles is King, he would have them reconsider and as the brothers get older they'll want to repair things for them, their wives and kids.

This is already in place for the most part. Unless Charles changes things up, when he becomes king, the Sussex children will automatically be prince or princess of the UK. ;)

Oh yah... lets not forget that the moment Charles becomes king, Harry becomes The Prince Henry. :smile:

Madame Verseau 08-02-2020 01:04 PM

I still see that the Sussexes are getting 100% the blame for Sussexit, and the BRF and the press bear no responsibility. On her wedding veil 53 flowers of the Commonwealth nations were stitched as a symbol of her desire to work for the Crown. The work she has done - Smart Works, the Hubb cookbook, the Oceania tour, the visit to Ireland to name a few - all of that is being dismissed as if they were nothing. Meghan's crime is not sucking up to the British press and grant access to her family's life and the press trashes her for it . Harry and Archie are not direct line heirs. THE BRF should have provided more support; a Botox story gets shot down faster. The equality with Kate and Meghan is terms of married ins. The Sussexes found their ability to call their shots as an alternative for their happiness. In some quarters the Windsors and the press are looking the WORST. Not everyone is buying palace and press spin.

Claire 08-02-2020 01:30 PM

Yes, I do believe that sooner rather then later it will be obviously that all royal family will be dealing with the spares and the irrelevants differently.
I think it is the mentalist of the generation previous royals sucked it up and got on with it. Can you imagine Princess Margaret or Princess Mary going on in this fashion? I am not saying it is right , it is just what was done. It is not going to happening again, now spares and irrelevant royals run to the press, of course we had the medieval ways this was handled.
Soon, I think we are going to see single child royal families. But the way the BRF deals with Louis and Charlotte will be completely different to
the way they dealt with Andrew.

Claire 08-02-2020 01:40 PM

You might have noticed that I refer to the irrelevants in the above email if case you were wondering who this refers to _ it is everyone below the Duke of York in the succession . They are the ones who phone and get an appointment to see their mother, grandmother, or relative. They are the ones whose engagements are not covered but the rota as they are the boring Windsor and the press office doesn’t give a damn.
These are the people that Prince Harry fears becaming and in the end even if William allowed him more power , would it have continued under George ? Eventually this is where Harry would have ended with the relatives he looks down on and disrespects. You forget he is the son of Diana he is destined for greatness. Regardless of Meghan this was always going to be Harry’s problem, whoever he married.

Elenath 08-02-2020 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helen.CH (Post 2329998)
By the way I 've just heard about this book. if the two do not distance themselves from it it will nail the cut finally. though we do not how the relations are in the RF.
and if H&M collaborated with the authors of the book or even feeded them with details, it is rather odd how much the authors emphasize they never talked to them, how on earth is their mental health? they have their freedom, is the book only to make money or another symbol for the two's immaturity & problems?
All this feels like a rotten teeth, will it ever stop? they produce more and more publitity, they'd really be hypocrites, poor Archie with those two and only one relative around (M's Mum), his future problems are already sure.

They already have, and the authors have already confirmed Harry and Meghan had nothing to do with the book. And where they got their info? I would presume the same way all other "royal biographers" got their info. Mostly secondary sources and in the case of Scobie, he went on tour with them.

Lilyflo 08-02-2020 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claire (Post 2331647)
Eventually this is where Harry would have ended with the relatives he looks down on and disrespects. You forget he is the son of Diana he is destined for greatness. Regardless of Meghan this was always going to be Harry’s problem, whoever he married.

Do you have any evidence that Harry "looks down on and disrespects" his relatives who are "below the Duke of York in the succession" or is it just your opinion and if so, on what do you base it?

Elenath 08-02-2020 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somebody (Post 2330705)
He does NOT say that he didn't talk to them off-the record. There was no off-the-record discussion; not sure what the difference is - but apparently, to him it makes a difference. If he had felt comfortable saying that he didn't talk to them, he would have said so but he didn't.

I believe reporters who used to go on tours with Harry weren't happy with him because after he married Meghan he "changed" and didn't hang out with them anymore. I believe that could count as "off-the-record". I guess these type of reporters know plenty without having to do interviews.

tommy100 08-02-2020 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claire (Post 2331647)
You might have noticed that I refer to the irrelevants in the above email if case you were wondering who this refers to _ it is everyone below the Duke of York in the succession . They are the ones who phone and get an appointment to see their mother, grandmother, or relative. They are the ones whose engagements are not covered but the rota as they are the boring Windsor and the press office doesn’t give a damn.
These are the people that Prince Harry fears becaming and in the end even if William allowed him more power , would it have continued under George ? Eventually this is where Harry would have ended with the relatives he looks down on and disrespects. You forget he is the son of Diana he is destined for greatness. Regardless of Meghan this was always going to be Harry’s problem, whoever he married.

Well Princess Anne is below Andrew and had a ITV 90 min documentary and lots of coverage for her birthday so I’m not sure she is “irrelevant” and in terms of the RF as “Windsor Inc” she is more relevant than even H&M at the moment.

While I think there has been a deliberate decision (by the authors and /or those who contributed and possibly even H&M in terms of friends and stories that they were allowed to share) to focus most of the negativity on W&K and spare HM and Charles to a degree. I can see why this may be thought as a good idea as HM is “the boss” then Charles in time but we have heard throughout this how this drama has brought William and Charles closer and how he has become more involved in the RF workings so maybe it won’t bode well for the future in a way. I think william has part of the same stubborn streak harry does and can see him not letting go of this and it hurting H&M in terms of their role in RF and finances in the future.

US Royal Watcher 08-02-2020 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madame Verseau (Post 2331641)
I still see that the Sussexes are getting 100% the blame for Sussexit, and the BRF and the press bear no responsibility. On her wedding veil 53 flowers of the Commonwealth nations were stitched as a symbol of her desire to work for the Crown. The work she has done - Smart Works, the Hubb cookbook, the Oceania tour, the visit to Ireland to name a few - all of that is being dismissed as if they were nothing. Meghan's crime is not sucking up to the British press and grant access to her family's life and the press trashes her for it . Harry and Archie are not direct line heirs. THE BRF should have provided more support; a Botox story gets shot down faster. The equality with Kate and Meghan is terms of married ins. The Sussexes found their ability to call their shots as an alternative for their happiness. In some quarters the Windsors and the press are looking the WORST. Not everyone is buying palace and press spin.

I don't blame Harry and Meghan for "Sussexit". They did the right thing. I think a year is long enough for them to decide that they did not want to continue. No one should allow their family, media or the public (who are basically a group of strangers) to pressure them into a lifestyle they don't want.

With respect to the royal family: No one is perfect and few people are 100% to blame whenever a relationships becomes strained. I believe the royal family could have done some things differently, but they probably did the best they could. I also believe that Harry and Meghan could have done things differently. Specifically, they could have told their friends not to cooperate with this book. Publicly airing family grievances is never productive. I believe that Harry and Meghan love and care about his family and this book will make it harder to resolve their differences.

tommy100 08-02-2020 02:08 PM

Even HM and Charles have off the record receptions during state/official visits overseas with the press most of the time so its not like Harry was just no longer doing something he started, it is accepted practice in the RF so the press would be expecting it to some degree.

poppy7 08-02-2020 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elenath (Post 2331650)
I believe reporters who used to go on tours with Harry weren't happy with him because after he married Meghan he "changed" and didn't hang out with them anymore. I believe that could count as "off-the-record". I guess these type of reporters know plenty without having to do interviews.

They used to have receptions and things and they would chat at them. But I think all those receptions while on tour has changed for all of them now.

I don't know some are little rose coloured about the past. They were never Harry's favourite people and he could be spikey.

Leopoldine 08-02-2020 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Lion (Post 2331435)
Really glad to see the Royal Family defending Ms Kelly ...

"But last night a Royal source pointedly said: 'The book's version of what happened would not be everyone else's recollection of events and certainly not those who were close to it'".

A friend of the Susseses says the hairdresser had been flown over from Paris for a practice session and they were frustrated at not having a tiara to use.

"Angela Kelly said she couldn't come to London and Harry went ballistic".

"Meghan demanded access to the tiara ... Harry was very quick to let everybody know of his anger and frustration ... ringing others to put pressure on Angela to bend the rules."

There are a lot of details in the article actually so I won't quote any more, you can read it if interested.

The whole thing appears to have been the Sussexes not following protocol, being awful to people in postions of lesser power, and the Prince ending up getting a dressing-down from Her Majesty.

The Sussexes are so embarrasing to themselves, all this hellish behaviour being dragged out and exposed.

But so good Ms Kelly is being shown to be the innocent party in all the Sussexes' dramatics.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sest-aide.html




Totally agree hel.

It's now become impossible to defend the Duke and Duchess of Sussex as not being involved with "Finding Freedom".

The alternative is Mr Sobie and Ms Durand are nuts, making up stuff at this level of detail.

And the publishing house and their lawyers, "The Times" and "The Sunday Times" and their lawyers, serious professionals, all going along with it. Why would they? They'd have to be nuts too.

Time to give up trying to sell this idea that the Sussexes didn't speak and that they don't have their hands all over this. That view has been blown out of the water by each new snippet and anecdote.



I think this will test their lawsuit vs. Mail on Sunday.

Roderick 08-02-2020 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher (Post 2331652)
I don't blame Harry and Meghan for "Sussexit". They did the right thing. I think a year is long enough for them to decide that they did not want to continue. No one should allow their family, media or the public (who are basically a group of strangers) to pressure them into a lifestyle they don't want.

With respect to the royal family: No one is perfect and few people are 100% to blame whenever a relationships becomes strained. I believe the royal family could have done some things differently, but they probably did the best they could. I also believe that Harry and Meghan could have done things differently. Specifically, they could have told their friends not to cooperate with this book. Publicly airing family grievances is never productive. I believe that Harry and Meghan love and care about his family and this book will make it harder to resolve their differences.

How exactly do you believe Harry and Meghan 'love and care about his family'? Maybe it is just me, but I don't see evidence of this at all.

Hallo girl 08-02-2020 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leopoldine (Post 2331656)
I think this will test their lawsuit vs. Mail on Sunday.

That is an interesting point.

Betsypaige 08-02-2020 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommy100 (Post 2331651)
Well Princess Anne is below Andrew and had a ITV 90 min documentary and lots of coverage for her birthday so I’m not sure she is “irrelevant” and in terms of the RF as “Windsor Inc” she is more relevant than even H&M at the moment.

While I think there has been a deliberate decision (by the authors and /or those who contributed and possibly even H&M in terms of friends and stories that they were allowed to share) to focus most of the negativity on W&K and spare HM and Charles to a degree. I can see why this may be thought as a good idea as HM is “the boss” then Charles in time but we have heard throughout this how this drama has brought William and Charles closer and how he has become more involved in the RF workings so maybe it won’t bode well for the future in a way. I think william has part of the same stubborn streak harry does and can see him not letting go of this and it hurting H&M in terms of their role in RF and finances in the future.

Or, maybe Harry is just plan angrier at his brother than his father and grandmother...He seems to think William and Kate have been deliberately snobby/etc. to he and Meghan. Honestly, I wouldn’t blame William if he chooses not to let it go, because aside from the fact that H completely twisted his attempt to help him, H and M have hurt Kate...and of course he’s going to be protective of her. I really hope that things can get better between all of them if H visits for Christmas. I’m sure it’s killing Charles to see his sons at odds.

Nico 08-02-2020 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madame Verseau (Post 2331641)
In some quarters the Windsors and the press are looking the WORST. Not everyone is buying palace and press spin.

Who cares ?
At the end the Crown always wins. As far i can see the BRF is not one single second endangered by this mediocre book, more entertaining than anything else really. The institution has seen much much worse and , above all, has better things to do nowadays.
The UK, her Majesty's subjects and , thankfully, the vast majority of people don't give a damn about it , as they don't care about the opinion of some peripheric die hard American fans of the Sussexes (namely the intended audience).
World has changed. This book was published at the worst time possible, and is counterproductive as possible. Not for the Royal Family mind you, but for the Sussexes themselves, because, and i know it as a fact, people in the UK, in these times of hardship, have so much to worry about right now than pitying two highly privilegied people living abroad. All of this melodrama appear now so irrelevant, if not indecent...
So despite your sympathetical and multiple preaches, i'm affraid the Sussexes files are now closed for good, institutionally, dynasticly, and publicly, especially the UK. Remain of course some semi-celebrity networks in California maybe. But, again, who cares ?

Moonmaiden23 08-02-2020 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madame Verseau (Post 2331641)
I still see that the Sussexes are getting 100% the blame for Sussexit, and the BRF and the press bear no responsibility. On her wedding veil 53 flowers of the Commonwealth nations were stitched as a symbol of her desire to work for the Crown. The work she has done - Smart Works, the Hubb cookbook, the Oceania tour, the visit to Ireland to name a few - all of that is being dismissed as if they were nothing. Meghan's crime is not sucking up to the British press and grant access to her family's life and the press trashes her for it . Harry and Archie are not direct line heirs. THE BRF should have provided more support; a Botox story gets shot down faster. The equality with Kate and Meghan is terms of married ins. The Sussexes found their ability to call their shots as an alternative for their happiness. In some quarters the Windsors and the press are looking the WORST. Not everyone is buying palace and press spin.

Cultivating a realistic relationship with the Press is part of the job. You call it "sucking up". The hard, cold, cruel fact of life is that the relationship between press and public is a symbiotic one for ANY public person...Royal, sports figure, TV star, politician.

They need you. You need them. So it would behoove everyone to develop a very thick skin and play ball.:ermm:

Meghan is highly intelligent and worldly. But there was NEVER going to be any "equal footing as married ins" with Kate. Kate will be Princess of Wales and queen of England. Even if Harry had married an aristocrat or a foreign Royal, his wife would have not been treated as a married in equal with William's wife.

My suspicion is that Meghan is a supremely self confident young woman who is used to "winning". But given her pragmatic and goal oriented approach to life, it seems more and more evident that she didn't do any real homework before marrying into the BRF. Did she read Royal biographies?Study the history of the institution...good and bad? And yes...race and class distinctions are a BIG part of the picture. :sad:

Did Meghan study the trials and errors of any of the other modern young women who have married into European royalty? Reach out and cultivate key relationships within the family ...fellow actress Sophie Winkelman(now Lady Frederick Windsor)perhaps?

Did she seek to be mentored by ANYONE other than her resentful immature husband and her showbiz confidants?

All this-and more- is what I personally would have done in Meghan's shoes.

Hallo girl 08-02-2020 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betsypaige (Post 2331661)
Or, maybe Harry is just plan angrier at his brother than his father and grandmother...He seems to think William and Kate have been deliberately snobby/etc. to he and Meghan. Honestly, I wouldn’t blame William if he chooses not to let it go, because aside from the fact that H completely twisted his attempt to help him, H and M have hurt Kate...and of course he’s going to be protective of her. I really hope that things can get better between all of them if H visits for Christmas. I’m sure it’s killing Charles to see his sons at odds.

The fact that William attended the Sandringham meeting, speaks volumes, I believe I am correct in saying he was also involved in the decisions around Prince Andrew. He is stepping up, so now has a voice in these discussion, going forward an even bigger voice.

The photograph taken at the Commonwealth service, with Kate staring ahead and William looking at her IMO spoke volumes also.

Fem 08-02-2020 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madame Verseau (Post 2331641)
I still see that the Sussexes are getting 100% the blame for Sussexit, and the BRF and the press bear no responsibility. On her wedding veil 53 flowers of the Commonwealth nations were stitched as a symbol of her desire to work for the Crown. The work she has done - Smart Works, the Hubb cookbook, the Oceania tour, the visit to Ireland to name a few - all of that is being dismissed as if they were nothing. Meghan's crime is not sucking up to the British press and grant access to her family's life and the press trashes her for it . Harry and Archie are not direct line heirs. THE BRF should have provided more support; a Botox story gets shot down faster. The equality with Kate and Meghan is terms of married ins. The Sussexes found their ability to call their shots as an alternative for their happiness. In some quarters the Windsors and the press are looking the WORST. Not everyone is buying palace and press spin.

I don't think it's getting the blame, but the Sussexes are responsible for the "Sussexit" - in the end, they were the one who made the decision to leave. Seems pretty normal to me.

I don't understand what do you mean by the "palace spin", tbh. And it's good to remember that the Crown always wins and a war with the press never ends well, because you can never win with them. It's a delicate balance that the BRF worked out with british press and with the Sussexes both sides are responsible for rocking the boat.

As far as Windsors looking bad, I don't see even one example or situation where they look worse than the Sussexes. I'd even go on the other end of the spectrum - if a book that was meant to be pro-Sussexes shows them as whiny, spoiled, self-centered people who don't respect the rules, tradition, the Crown nor the family (from what we've seen of it), then I'd say Sussexes are looking really, really bad.

Hallo girl 08-02-2020 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madame Verseau (Post 2331641)
I still see that the Sussexes are getting 100% the blame for Sussexit, and the BRF and the press bear no responsibility. On her wedding veil 53 flowers of the Commonwealth nations were stitched as a symbol of her desire to work for the Crown. The work she has done - Smart Works, the Hubb cookbook, the Oceania tour, the visit to Ireland to name a few - all of that is being dismissed as if they were nothing. Meghan's crime is not sucking up to the British press and grant access to her family's life and the press trashes her for it . Harry and Archie are not direct line heirs. THE BRF should have provided more support; a Botox story gets shot down faster. The equality with Kate and Meghan is terms of married ins. The Sussexes found their ability to call their shots as an alternative for their happiness. In some quarters the Windsors and the press are looking the WORST. Not everyone is buying palace and press spin.

That is why it is all so sad, those early days were really good.
They had so much to offer to the country, the family, everybody.
The press has not been easy, but a great deal of what we have heard from the book, are moans re the family and courtiers. We are in a pandemic, millions of British people might lose their jobs when furlough stops, kids may or may not go back to school in the next few weeks, Exam results are about to be announced for exams that nobody actually sat, future options for university are doubtful, there is a real threat of a second spike and we are reading that Meghan was upset and Harry was angry that her hairdresser who she flew over from Paris could not use the priceless diamond tiara for a wedding trial......... we have more important things to think about..they just do not get it.

Lee-Z 08-02-2020 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 (Post 2331663)
Meghan is highly intelligent and worldly. But there was NEVER going to be any "equal footing as married ins" with Kate. Kate will be Princess of Wales and queen of England. Even if Harry had married an aristocrat or a foreign Royal, his wife would have not been treated as a married in equal with William's wife.

My suspicion is that Meghan is a supremely self confident young woman who is used to "winning". But given her pragmatic and goal oriented approach to life, it seems more and more evident that she didn't do any real homework before marrying into the BRF. Did she read Royal biographies?Study the history of the institution...good and bad? And yes...race and class distinctions are a BIG part of the picture. :sad:

Study the trials and errors of any of the other modern young women who have married into European royalty? Reach out and cultivate key relationships within the family ...fellow actress Sophie Winkelman(now Lady Frederick Windsor)perhaps?

Seek to be mentored by ANYONE other than her resentful immature husband and her showbiz confidants?

All this-and more- is what I personally would have done in Meghan's shoes.

If half of what emerge from this 'sympathatic' book is true, it does seem indeed that she wasn't prepared for this job, specifically for one aspect:
this is the only job in the world where popularity, or hard working, or performing better than some on else, does not get you the top position.
There is no audition for it.
Your fanclub counts for nothing.
How many magazines or clicks your face sells means nothing.
She was not in a contest with the DoCambridge, Catherine will become queen some day, no matter if she had been bland, lazy, unpopular (she is none of the three), and the DoCornwall will be queen before her.

If hard work would make you a monarch P.Anne would be the one...

imo ofcourse

DuchessMia 08-02-2020 03:30 PM

Harry & Meghan wanted their lives to matter, but they couldn’t overshadow the other members of the family. Harry wanted his wife to be treated fairly and not as some interloper. None of that is wrong or deserving of 3 years of racist, biased, misogynistic lies and stories. What I don’t understand is the uproar about this book as compared to others that are written with and without the approval of the BRF. Is it because it pulls the veil back and exposes the machinations of the royal houses?

The Windsors care deeply what the public thinks of them. All the pageantry, nationalism, photo exclusives, tours are meant to further the monarchy beyond Elizabeth’s death. Hence the 4 generation picture at Christmas. Everything is to ensure the monarchy is strong enough to withstand political upheaval, Brexit, feckless heirs and unpopular heirs. The public must never question their funding of the family. Books like Finding Freedom show this family is no better than your neighbors.They have petty jealousies. They allow their employees to run amok. There are misunderstandings and slights. All the Windsors have are titles and gobs of money they inherited, not earned. Strip all of the pomp & circumstance away and they are simply a dysfunctional family with a creaking, antiquated business run by a CEO, who should step down and allow new blood in. I actually hope things do change so the next generation won’t be stifled in their pursuit of their happiness. That Charlotte, Louis’ lives will matter beyond their usefulness to Future King George.

poppy7 08-02-2020 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuchessMia (Post 2331673)
Harry & Meghan wanted their lives to matter, but they couldn’t overshadow the other members of the family. Harry wanted his wife to be treated fairly and not as some interloper. None of that is wrong or deserving of 3 years of racist, biased, misogynistic lies and stories. What I don’t understand is the uproar about this book as compared to others that are written with and without the approval of the BRF. Is it because it pulls the veil back and exposes the machinations of the royal houses?

The Windsors care deeply what the public thinks of them. All the pageantry, nationalism, photo exclusives, tours are meant to further the monarchy beyond Elizabeth’s death. Hence the 4 generation picture at Christmas. Everything is to ensure the monarchy is strong enough to withstand political upheaval, Brexit, feckless heirs and unpopular heirs. The public must never question their funding of the family. Books like Finding Freedom show this family is no better than your neighbors.They have petty jealousies. They allow their employees to run amok. There are misunderstandings and slights. All the Windsors have are titles and gobs of money they inherited, not earned. Strip all of the pomp & circumstance away and they are simply a dysfunctional family with a creaking, antiquated business run by a CEO, who should step down and allow new blood in. I actually hope things do change so the next generation won’t be stifled in their pursuit of their happiness. That Charlotte, Louis’ lives will matter beyond their usefulness to Future King George.

Harry was not stifled by anyone. By accident of births maybe but the family just asked him to do his job believe me they covered up and buried loads about him.

That his wife found the job to not be what she thought and the fact that he loves her and wanted to make it work meant they left. So be it.

This is if news because nothing is new. The papers were in a way right about most things.

Hallo girl 08-02-2020 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuchessMia (Post 2331673)
Harry & Meghan wanted their lives to matter, but they couldn’t overshadow the other members of the family. Harry wanted his wife to be treated fairly and not as some interloper. None of that is wrong or deserving of 3 years of racist, biased, misogynistic lies and stories. What I don’t understand is the uproar about this book as compared to others that are written with and without the approval of the BRF. Is it because it pulls the veil back and exposes the machinations of the royal houses?

The Windsors care deeply what the public thinks of them. All the pageantry, nationalism, photo exclusives, tours are meant to further the monarchy beyond Elizabeth’s death. Hence the 4 generation picture at Christmas. Everything is to ensure the monarchy is strong enough to withstand political upheaval, Brexit, feckless heirs and unpopular heirs. The public must never question their funding of the family. Books like Finding Freedom show this family is no better than your neighbors.They have petty jealousies. They allow their employees to run amok. There are misunderstandings and slights. All the Windsors have are titles and gobs of money they inherited, not earned. Strip all of the pomp & circumstance away and they are simply a dysfunctional family with a creaking, antiquated business run by a CEO, who should step down and allow new blood in. I actually hope things do change so the next generation won’t be stifled in their pursuit of their happiness. That Charlotte, Louis’ lives will matter beyond their usefulness to Future King George.

Does that mean you think the details in the book are accurate, and if so, where do you think the personal detail was sourced. ?

Lilyflo 08-02-2020 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hallo girl (Post 2331670)
That is why it is all so sad, those early days were really good.
They had so much to offer to the country, the family, everybody.
The press has not been easy, but a great deal of what we have heard from the book, are moans re the family and courtiers. We are in a pandemic, millions of British people might lose their jobs when furlough stops, kids may or may not go back to school in the next few weeks, Exam results are about to be announced for exams that nobody actually sat, future options for university are doubtful, there is a real threat of a second spike and we are reading that Meghan was upset and Harry was angry that her hairdresser who she flew over from Paris could not use the priceless diamond tiara for a wedding trial......... we have more important things to think about..they just do not get it.

I agree that the timing of this book is extremely disadvantageous to the Sussexes. I think they could have made a valuable contribution to many charities and I abhor false stories/misrepresentation (of anyone) so I understand if they felt overwhelmed by published lies whizzing around the world. I hope this book can correct those falsehoods but unfortunately for them, it seems it also includes real incidents that do them no favours, particularly now when so many less privileged people are struggling with health and financial worries.

Lee-Z 08-02-2020 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppy7 (Post 2331674)
Harry was not stifled by anyone. By accident of births maybe but the family just asked him to do his job believe me they covered up and buried loads about him.

That his wife found the job to not be what she thought and the fact that he loves her and wanted to make it work meant they left. So be it.

This is if news because nothing is new. The papers were in a way right about most things.

That last part to me is why this book is so much more interesting than the others that were recently published. Of the others i expected gossip and from the stuff i read on these forums it was, so i don't believe anything from those books (maybe some of it was true, but to me more by accident than by skill of the author)

*This* book however is thought to be sympathatic to the Sussexes.
It spills some beans on the RF's working, but they don't surprise me, i have no romantic, pink cloud idea of a monarchy; it is a company and some persons are good at their work, others...less..
But what this book also does, to me, even (as i said in a previous post) only half of it is true, is that it confirms things about the Sussexes that i thought were gossip, trash talk by cheap media...

i am one of those people who never clicks on daily mail links, or the sun, or what have you, so i only get the gossip from this board, and everytime in the past there was a daily mail link included, i considered the post gossip and to be taken with a grain of salt.

But it turns out there was truth in it...that is to me, the most shocking thing about 'Finding Freedom'..

IF, and to me it's still a big if, the book actually does contain the stuff that has been published recently (but that some of the quotes were published in The Times, made a big difference for me...)

DuchessMia 08-02-2020 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hallo girl (Post 2331675)
Does that mean you think the details in the book are accurate, and if so, where do you think the personal detail was sourced. ?

I actually don’t care if their friends, the courtiers or outsiders were the sources for the book. At the end of the day, these are real people. Harry & Meghan are actually entitled to their feelings. And if they found William high handed and hypocritical, they can. If they found Kate, cold and unwelcoming, they can. If they thought Angela Kelly should have been more accommodating about the tiara, guess what? They can. Marrying into that family shouldn’t take away who they are. Yes, there are compromises to be made, but total subjugation of their rights & feelings because it might reflect badly on the monarchy is ridiculous. Especially when the Sussexes have done nothing nefarious or illegal. They aren’t being accused of anything serious. Just not being grateful enough for the privilege of being members of the BRF and acquiescing properly to those who will rank above them.

Nico 08-02-2020 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuchessMia (Post 2331673)
Harry & Meghan wanted their lives to matter, but they couldn’t overshadow the other members of the family. Harry wanted his wife to be treated fairly and not as some interloper. None of that is wrong or deserving of 3 years of racist, biased, misogynistic lies and stories. What I don’t understand is the uproar about this book as compared to others that are written with and without the approval of the BRF. Is it because it pulls the veil back and exposes the machinations of the royal houses?

The Windsors care deeply what the public thinks of them. All the pageantry, nationalism, photo exclusives, tours are meant to further the monarchy beyond Elizabeth’s death. Hence the 4 generation picture at Christmas. Everything is to ensure the monarchy is strong enough to withstand political upheaval, Brexit, feckless heirs and unpopular heirs. The public must never question their funding of the family. Books like Finding Freedom show this family is no better than your neighbors.They have petty jealousies. They allow their employees to run amok. There are misunderstandings and slights. All the Windsors have are titles and gobs of money they inherited, not earned. Strip all of the pomp & circumstance away and they are simply a dysfunctional family with a creaking, antiquated business run by a CEO, who should step down and allow new blood in. I actually hope things do change so the next generation won’t be stifled in their pursuit of their happiness. That Charlotte, Louis’ lives will matter beyond their usefulness to Future King George.

And the worst World crisis in ages is showing that this "antiquated business" is stronger and relevant than ever.
People are not stupid, they pretty now that the Windsors are not perfect, they are humans. Still the system works, the "CEO " is, basically venerated by an entire nation and all the senior royals are more popular than ever because, despite their flaws, they knew how to react in a time of crisis.
The uproar is very much about an insanly ill timed book who does'nt even show its main subjects in a good light. It will go down in the flush of 2020 in few months (if not weeks with the already laughable Lady Campbell's coming up), the Monarchy , as an institution, is safe and sound for the next century.

Mirabel 08-02-2020 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee-Z (Post 2331672)
If half of what emerge from this 'sympathatic' book is true, it does seem indeed that she wasn't prepared for this job, specifically for one aspect:
this is the only job in the world where popularity, or hard working, or performing better than some on else, does not get you the top position.

I can understand that Meghan wasn't prepared for that, but I'm wondering if Harry was either?

Yes, he's always known that William would be the heir, but recently it's been suggested that he was becoming increasingly aware of the huge gap between him and William. At one time they were similar, but now?

It's well-known that Charles is assuming more and more royal duties, and William is also stepping up. This probably had an impact on Harry.

Nico 08-02-2020 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuchessMia (Post 2331681)
Marrying into that family shouldn’t take away who they are. Yes, there are compromises to be made, but total subjugation of their rights & feelings because it might reflect badly on the monarchy is ridiculous. Especially when the Sussexes have done nothing nefarious or illegal. They aren’t being accused of anything serious. Just not being grateful enough for the privilege of being members of the BRF and acquiescing properly to those who will rank above them.

Like any other firm, if you don't respect the hierachy and you don't agree with the terms of the contract (worse : if you try to change them even if you pretty knew them since you were born), well, you have to leave, it's as simple as that.
The Sussexes just did that, so kudos to them, but at the same time are, apparently, blaming the firm, the boss and the tools.
Now that's rich !

poppy7 08-02-2020 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nico (Post 2331690)
Like any other firm, if you don't respect the hierachy and you don't agree with the terms of the contract (worse : if you try to change them even if you pretty knew them since you were born), well, you have to leave, it's as simple as that.
The Sussexes just did that, so kudos to them, but at the same time are, apparently, blaming the firm, the boss and the tools.
Now that's rich !

Exactly. You don't like the kitchen. Get out. But it won't change for you. And don't criticise the existential existence of it for the fact you left. It is the way it is.

US Royal Watcher 08-02-2020 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roderick (Post 2331658)
How exactly do you believe Harry and Meghan 'love and care about his family'? Maybe it is just me, but I don't see evidence of this at all.

I don't think that Harry's actions over the past year are evidence that he does not love and care for his family. Stepping away from his royal duties does not prove that he doesn't love his family. Not doing what someone else may want you to do does not prove that you don't care and love that person, it just means you want to make your own decisions.

The public announcement that they were stepping back and this book (if he did cooperate with it) may have been hurtful, but who among us has never done anything to hurt people we love. And if Meghan loves Harry, which I believe she does, she cares about his family as well.

DuchessMia 08-02-2020 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher (Post 2331698)
I don't think that Harry's actions over the past year are evidence that he does not love and care for his family. Stepping away from his royal duties does not prove that he doesn't love his family. Not doing what someone else may want you to do does not prove that you don't care and love that person, it just means you want to make your own decisions.

The public announcement that they were stepping back and this book (if he did cooperate with it) may have been hurtful, but who among us has never done anything to hurt people we love. And if Meghan loves Harry, which I believe she does, she cares about his family as well.

Well said.

US Royal Watcher 08-02-2020 04:39 PM

I appreciate your point of view, DuchessMia but I don't agree with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuchessMia (Post 2331681)
Harry & Meghan wanted their lives to matter, but they couldn’t overshadow the other members of the family.

Harry and Meghan’s lives do matter and while they were “senior royals” they were working on causes they believed in. They didn’t get every assignment they wanted, but they weren’t self-employed. Even those who own their own business are rarely free to pick and choose what they want to do.

Quote:

Harry wanted his wife to be treated fairly and not as some interloper. None of that is wrong or deserving of 3 years of racist, biased, misogynistic lies and stories.
Nothing justifies racists or misogynistic lies and stories, but that was a small percentage of their media coverage. Not every criticism is based on racism or sexism. Harry and Meghan received some critical coverage, as have William, Kate, Charles, Camilla, and even the Queen have. It is unfortunately, part of being a public figure.

Quote:

What I don’t understand is the uproar about this book as compared to others that are written with and without the approval of the BRF.
Fair point.

Quote:

Is it because it pulls the veil back and exposes the machinations of the royal houses?

I don’t know that it “pulls the veil back”. It has been widely reported that there is sometimes infighting and machinations among the various royal houses. In other words the royal family and their employees are human beings with faults. Nothing new here.

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The Windsors care deeply what the public thinks of them. All the pageantry, nationalism, photo exclusives, tours are meant to further the monarchy beyond Elizabeth’s death. Hence the 4 generation picture at Christmas. Everything is to ensure the monarchy is strong enough to withstand political upheaval, Brexit, feckless heirs and unpopular heirs. The public must never question their funding of the family.
Of course the royal family cares what the public think of them but I think it is cynical to assume that they are only out to bilk the public and maintain their status. I think that the Queen and the rest of the royal family are convinced that the tradition of the monarchy benefits the U.K. and that those benefits outweigh the cost – and it seems that a majority of Britons agree with them. Yes, the family enjoys some benefits from their position but there are costs to it as well. Personally, I believe that Queen would have been just as happy if not happier, to be a wife and a mother. Charles would have been happy working at a non-profit and William definitely would have chosen a different career. But they all have decided to devote their lives to an institution that they believe benefits their country.

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All the Windsors have are titles and gobs of money they inherited, not earned.
I disagree that the royal family has not earned their money. Their family has worked for the U.K. for generations. You may believe they have been overcompensated but the people of U.K. don’t seem to agree. The Queen is 94 years old and Charles is 70 years old and they are still working for the people of the U.K. I don't know of many other 94 year old people who are still working. I'm sure there are many days when she would prefer to do something else and those days are becoming more frequent.

If the monarchy was abolished tomorrow, the Windsors would still be very wealthy and although their living standard would decline and they would lose their status, they would have the right to choose their own professions and spouses without worrying about public pressure, which may be a win for them. However, they continue to carry on because they believe it is their duty to their country.

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Strip all of the pomp & circumstance away and they are simply a dysfunctional family with a creaking, antiquated business run by a CEO, who should step down and allow new blood in. I actually hope things do change so the next generation won’t be stifled in their pursuit of their happiness. That Charlotte, Louis’ lives will matter beyond their usefulness to Future King George.
I don’t think the Windsors are any more dysfunctional than any other family. Few people could withstand the scrutiny that the royal family receives. Some believe the Queen should step aside, and she may want to (she is 94 years old) but the majority of Britons do not and it looks like she will carry out her duties until she physically can't.

I believe that Charlotte and Louis’s lives will continue to matter, just as Anne, Andrew and Edward’s lives matter. Anne has been able to indulge her love of horses while working on her charities. Andrew has been a trade representative and Edward continues to represent the Queen and the UK. None of them (except Andrew for different reasons) seem unhappy. Younger siblings may not get the headlines but their lives do matter - and I believe the Queen appreciates their work on behalf of the U.K. and those less fortunate.

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Harry & Meghan are actually entitled to their feelings. And if they found William high handed and hypocritical, they can. If they found Kate, cold and unwelcoming, they can. If they thought Angela Kelly should have been more accommodating about the tiara, guess what? They can. Marrying into that family shouldn’t take away who they are.
Agreed, but Harry and Meghan are not the only ones entitled to their feelings. If William thought that Harry was moving to quickly, he could. If Kate did not want to be friendlier and take Meghan shopping, she could. If the Queen and Charles are hurt by Harry and Meghan's actions, they can be. Most of the criticism I have read about this book is not because Harry and Meghan had feelings but because they may have cooperating with an author who was out to hurt William and Kate. For me, although I understand the feelings, complaining about things like not being able to access an expensive tiara when she wanted to or Kate not offering to go shopping with Meghan, comes across as petty and trivial.

Betsypaige 08-02-2020 05:07 PM

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Originally Posted by Hallo girl (Post 2331664)
The fact that William attended the Sandringham meeting, speaks volumes, I believe I am correct in saying he was also involved in the decisions around Prince Andrew. He is stepping up, so now has a voice in these discussion, going forward an even bigger voice.

The photograph taken at the Commonwealth service, with Kate staring ahead and William looking at her IMO spoke volumes also.

Indeed....Charles is mentoring William the same way George VI mentored his daughter; it has to be that way, and Harry needs to understand that. It’s not William’s fault that he’s going to be King, but you wouldn’t know it by H’s behavior. It seems to me that H is bitter and resentful of his brother’s place in the pecking order, and that colors his feelings about him. I feel like nothing William and Kate could do would ever assuage H and M because they can’t do anything about the thing that irks the Sussexes the most.

Denville 08-02-2020 05:19 PM

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Originally Posted by Roderick (Post 2331658)
How exactly do you believe Harry and Meghan 'love and care about his family'? Maybe it is just me, but I don't see evidence of this at all.

Harry possibly does though I am not too sure of that now.. and Meghan Im very sure doesnt

Heavs 08-02-2020 05:32 PM

Harry won't have the position or privileges that William does and will but he also had a lot more freedom to do his own thing as well. William and Kate will always be in the spotlight no matter what they do (assuming the monarchy survives) and didn't have the option of having their children be plain M-W. Or the option of considering leaving on a short term or long term basis without a constitutional crisis.

Look at Anne and Edward. After some rocky times both appear to be happy with their lives, they get the perks, carry out engagements have their own personal charities and causes (Sophie has travelled extensively promoting girls health and education but gets a fraction of the publicity for it) and live their private lives as they see fit. If they had gone about it differently then they might have even been able to have a little more in/out leeway.

Even Andrew had previous had roles he loved as official trade envoy etc.

It seemed like important roles were being lined up for them, especially with the Commonwealth, as well as things like the National Theatre which is no small potatoes.

But that's not even the thing about this book. The extracts we've seen and reviews by people that have read the whole book don't lay out why the Sussexes couldn't stand to be there beyond petty and somewhat trivial slights and resentments or what they'll be able to do that's so much better now they're out. Or why they had to announce it half cocked in January and not when it was all sorted out.


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