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Rick 11-12-2002 05:09 AM

HRH Prince Leopold of Bavaria is currently in Australia, don't ask me why or for how long. He was interviewed on Sunrise (simmilar to NBC's today show)

You might find more info on the Seven networks website just follow news links to sunrise

Julia 03-07-2003 05:31 AM

King Ludwig II of Bavaria was born in Nymphenburg Castle outside Munich in the early hours of August 25, 1845. He was the eldest son of King Maximillian II and Queen Marie, and was named after his grandfather, King Ludwig I.

Ludwig's Childhood
As a boy, Ludwig was given a typical 19th cent. upbringing - an indifferent father and schooling which consisted of constant beatings. It is fairly obvious that he would have been miserable as a child. His favourite times of the year were the summer holidays the family spent at the Royal Castle Hohenschwangau which King Max had restored between 1832 and 1836 in a romantic medieval style. Hohenschwangau's position can only be called magnificent; it is situated beside a blue alpine lake, the Alpsee, and about 2 kilometres from the Austrian border and the Tyrolean Alps.

The Queen enjoyed taking Ludwig and his younger brother Otto on lengthy hikes in the nearby alps and it would have been on these occasions that Ludwig developed his love of the mountains and their solitude, as well as his lifelong devotion to the Schwangau region. He also loved to feed the wild swans that lived around the lake, and several drawings of swans that he made at this time survive today.

The discovery of Wagner

In 1858, when Ludwig was thirteen years old, his governess told him of the upcoming production of Richard Wagner's opera Lohengrin, the story of which centres around the heroic medieval Swan-knight Lohengrin. Since the walls of Hohenschwangau were covered in frescoes featuring Lohengrin, a curious Ludwig acquired a copy of the opera's libretto and he read it voraciously. It wasn't too long before the Prince had learnt the entire libretto off by heart, as well as the libretto of another Wagner opera, Tannhäuser. He was soon devouring every book written by Wagner, and on February 2nd, 1861, Ludwig heard a Wagner opera for the first time.

Appropriately it was Lohengrin and the experience left a profound impression on the Prince. In 1863 he acquired Wagner's recently published Ring Cycle, the preface of which contained a comment about the miserable state of the German theatre. In order for the Ring to be produced, Wagner wrote, a German Prince would need to be found to provide the required funds. To Ludwig, this was a direct message from the master. He would be that Prince.

Ludwig becomes King

On March 10th, 1864, King Max died at the age of 53. Ludwig assumed the throne at 18 years of age. Within days of his ascension, the young King ordered his ministers to track down Wagner and bring him to Munich. The task was not as easy as first thought, but eventually Wagner, running from his creditors, was located in Vienna and brought to the King. To the 51 year old composer Ludwig was a new Siegfried, come to rescue art. To the 18 year old King, Wagner was a god. Ludwig became Wagner's patron, settled his debts, and set him up comfortably in an Italianate-style villa. The two were inseparable, and Ludwig was soon planning the construction of a large festival theatre in Munich. On several occasions Wagner stayed with Ludwig at Schloss Berg, another mock-Gothic summer castle, as well as visits to Hohenschwangau.

The tide turns

Soon, however, Munich society was growing tired of Wagner's arrogance and jealous of his influence on their young King, and the ministers feared Wagner would try to influence Ludwig in political matters. It was only a matter of time before Wagner was forced to leave Bavaria. Eighteen months after his arrival, Wagner left Munich for Switzerland, and to a house rented by Ludwig for him. Ludwig fled to Hohenschwangau. The one thing that was giving him happiness had been taken from him.


The first few years of Ludwig's reign was a series of tragedies and disappointments. In 1866 war broke out between Austria and Prussia, the most powerful of the German states in what became known as the Seven Weeks War. Because of Bavaria's strong links with Austria, she too was drawn into the conflict on the Austrian side. Unfortunately for Bavaria, Prussia was victorious, and the country was thrown into gloom. In a secret treaty Ludwig placed the Bavarian army at the disposal of the Prussian General Staff. A part of Bavaria's independence was lost.


Soon after the end of the war, the Royal family began to notice how much time Ludwig was spending with Sophie, the youngest sister of the Austrian Empress. She was a delicate girl not quite twenty with long ash-blond hair. For Ludwig she had a major characteristic in her favour - she was a fellow Wagner enthusiast. They seemed a perfect couple. They would spend hours discussing the Master's works, and soon began addressing each other as Elsa and Heinrich (both characters from Lohengrin). Within a few months of their first meeting, Sophie's mother demanded Ludwig state his intentions, and through shrewd planning from her, the couple announced their engagement in January 1867. The nation was delighted with the news, and court balls, dinners and theatre performances were held in the couple's honour.

The honeymoon ends

The date for the wedding was first set for August, 1867. Shortly after it was changed to October 12th, the date both Ludwig I and Max II had married. But it was beginning to be obvious that not everything was well. Ludwig and Sophie were seen occupying separate boxes at the theatre, and people remarked that the couple seemed to be lacking a glow. Further evidence of this happened when Ludwig left court balls early and alone in order to catch the final act of plays. The truth was that Ludwig was desperately worried about the wedding. He stated to the Court Secretary that he would rather drown himself in the Alpsee than to marry. As the wedding date dew nearer Ludwig was more agitated and miserable. He wrote to Wagner

"Oh, if only I could be carried on a magic carpet to you . . . at dear, peaceful Tribschen* - even for an hour or two. What I would give to be able to do that!"

But Sophie was just as miserable. She knew that the King didn't love her. Finally she sent a letter offering Ludwig his freedom. But rather than except it, yet another postponement was made, to December. Meanwhile, wild rumours were circulating through Munich, the most absurd being that Sophie had broken Ludwig's heart by having an affair with a local photographer. (This rumour still persists to this day.) In the end it was Sophie's father who ended the affair. He sent word to Ludwig in early October demanding that he set a definite date at the end of November, or withdraw his proposal. Ludwig took the latter option. That night he wrote in his diary,

"Sophie is finished with. The gloomy picture vanishes. I longed for freedom, I thirsted for freedom, to wake from this horrible nightmare."

Ludwig fled to his beloved Alps, and hid there in his dreams. He wrote to Wagner from Hohenschwangau on 21 November, 1867;

"I write these lines sitting in my cosy gothic bow-window, by the light of my lonely lamp, while outside the blizzard rages. It is so peaceful here, this silence is stimulating, whereas in the clamour of the world I feel absolutely miserable.

"Thank God I am alone at last. My mother is far away, as is my former bride, who would have made me unspeakably unhappy. Before me stands a bust of the one, true Friend whom I shall love until death. . . If only I had the opportunity to die for you."

(The following year Sophie married Prince Ferdinand d'Orleans, a grandson of King Louis-Phillipe of France. In 1897 she died in a fire during a charity bazaar in Paris.)

It was from this time onwards in his life that Ludwig began planning and building his castles. The task of being king was far too great for a young man in his early 20's. This is possibly the most important fact that we must keep in mind when dealing with Ludwig. At the age of 20 he signed the order for mobilising the army and joining the Seven Weeks War, and thereby ordering thousands into battle. The traumatic episode of his failed engagement occurred when he was 21. But tragedy was still about to descend on the young King. Two years after his broken marriage plans, Prussia went to war with France, and since Prussia now effectively controlled Bavaria's army, Ludwig ordered his troops into battle once again into what became known as the Franco-Prussian War. During this war Ludwig withdrew from the real world and into a world of make-believe. The plans for both Neuschwanstein and Linderhof date from this period, and the foundation stone for Neuschwanstein was laid now. (In 1869.)

"The Dream King"

Ludwig was quickly changing in both mind and body. Photographs show how his appearance changed from a slender youth to a huge man in just a few years. He began to spend all his time in the mountains, at Hohenschwangau and Linderhof when it was ready to move in to, and his small mock-Gothic castle at Berg, beside Lake Starnberg. He refused to see his ministers and preferred the company of the mountain people. In fact, the only time he stayted in Munich was the annual investiture and banquet given in the Residenz for the Knights of the Order of St. George, Bavaria's highest Order of Chivalry Ludwig was the Grand Master of this Order. From paintings of these dinners, we can see Ludwig enjoyed himself immensely.

The famous "Private Performances" also date from around this time. Sitting alone in the Residenz Theatre or the Court Theatre in Munich, the King would attend plays, concerts and operas put on for him alone. Plays were commissioned by the King to take place in settings designated by him. These settings were invariably exotic; the Himalayas; the court of Louis XIV; Tibet, Imperial China etc.

The final trauma for Ludwig occurred shortly after Prussia's victory in the Franco-Prussian War. Bismark requested Ludwig's approval for Bavaria to enter a unified German Empire with Prussia as leader. After several days procrastinating, Ludwig agreed and wrote a letter inviting Wilhelm II to become Emperor of a united Germany. Bavarian sovereignty became an idea rather than a reality, and Ludwig a figurehead in a constitutional monarchy.

These incidences, then, were responsible for his reclusive existence, and his alleged "madness". The world had never been kind to him, and he withdrew from it into a world of his own making. This was the reason for his castles.

From the early 1870's until his death, Ludwig concerned himself with three major things -

* Building his castles

* Wagner's operas

* The theatre

Julia 03-07-2003 05:34 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Portrait of King Ludwig II of Bavaria....

Biography and portrait from:King Ludwig II of Bavaria

Count Von Schonborn_Wiesentheid 10-18-2003 07:39 PM
HSH Princess Maria Filippa, Princess zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn with her husbund Count Vittorio Mazzetti d'Albertis
HSH Prince Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn with his sister, HSH Princess Maria Filippa, Princess zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn
Countess Maya von Schoenburg

source -

Count Von Schonborn_Wiesentheid 10-18-2003 07:49 PM

Various German Royals
HSH Prince Alexander zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn with his spouse Gabriela and daughter Alexandra
HSH Prince Peter zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn with actress spouse Sunnyi Melles
Count Rudolf von Schönburg-Glauchau with spouse Marie Luise

source -

Count Von Schonborn_Wiesentheid 10-18-2003 08:03 PM
Countess Mariae Gloria von Schoenburg-Glauchau
Countess Mariae Gloria von Schoenburg-Glauchau
Countess Mariae Gloria von Schoenburg-Glauchau
Countess Mariae Gloria von Schoenburg-Glauchau

source -

Count Von Schonborn_Wiesentheid 10-18-2003 08:07 PM

Princess Marie Louise *Lilly* zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg

source -

hrhcp 10-18-2003 08:47 PM

Much appreciate your posting of German Royals Count Von Schonborn_Wiesentheid. Please continue.

hrhcp 10-18-2003 08:49 PM

There is some visual similarity (and shock value) with the Countess Gloria of Thurn und Taxis when she was just married.

Count Von Schonborn_Wiesentheid 10-18-2003 09:21 PM

King Christian:

I know, but I am using their Birth Name.

Count Von Schonborn_Wiesentheid 10-18-2003 09:31 PM
Princess Alexandra zu Fuerstenberg
Princess Alexandra zu Fuerstenberg with daughter Talita Natasha
Princess Alexandra zu Fuerstenberg wither her husbund Prince Alexander zu Fuerstenberg and daughter Talita Natasha
Countess Diana Bernadotte, Civil Wedding on September 28, 2003

source - worldroots

Count Von Schonborn_Wiesentheid 10-18-2003 09:41 PM
Countess Diana Bernadotte, Civil Wedding on September 28, 2003
Countess Diana Bernadotte, Civil Wedding on September 28, 2003
Wedding of Clarissa, Countess zu Toerring-Jettenbach and Tassilo Metternich-Sandor, Prince of Ratibor and Corvey on July 4, 1999 in Winhoering, Bavaria

source - worldroots

Count Von Schonborn_Wiesentheid 10-18-2003 09:54 PM
Wedding of Duchess Fleur of Wuerttemberg and Count Moritz von Goess *1966 on August 9, 2003
Wedding of Duchess Fleur of Wuerttemberg and Count Moritz von Goess *1966 on August 9, 2003
Wedding of Prince Carl Christian von Wrede Countess Katalin de Bethlen

source - wroldroots

Count Von Schonborn_Wiesentheid 10-18-2003 10:06 PM
Prince Leopold *Poldi* of Bavaria on his 60th Birthday Party on June 21, 2003
in Rottach-Egern am Tegernsee, Bavaria
Prince Ernst of Hanover with spouce Princess Caroline and Prince Leopold *Poldi* of Bavaria
Princess Elisabeth of Saxe-Weimar

source - worldroots

Count Von Schonborn_Wiesentheid 10-18-2003 10:16 PM

Wednesday, 3 October, 2001, 18:28 GMT 19:28 UK
German princess dies in motorway crash

The princess married in June 2001

A woman who died when a camper van crashed on the M5 in Somerset has been named as a German princess.
Filippa Prinzessin zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn, 21, a photographer and former model, was a distant relative of the Duke of Edinburgh.

A man who died following the accident has been identified as Roberto Porqueddu, 36, a photographer, from Florence, Italy.

The Winnebago camper van in which they were travelling collided with a council vehicle on the hard shoulder of the M5 near Clevedon on Sunday morning.

The 20-year-old driver of the van died in hospital

The princess was one of five people in the van.

They had been on a photographic assignment in Cornwall.

An Italian man in his 30s died later in Weston General Hospital, Weston-super-Mare.

The driver of the van, a 20-year-old man from South Africa, was taken to Frenchay Hospital, Bristol, with serious leg injuries.

Two other people in the camper van, both women who live in London, were treated for cuts, bruises and shock in hospital. They were later released.

Council workers at the scene of the crash were also treated for shock.

A spokesman from Avon and Somerset police said the princess died instantly at the scene after sustaining "horrific head injuries".

Lived in Florence

Filippa, who was born Princess Maria Filippa Johanna Elisabeth Fernanda Yvonne zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn at Koblenz on July 23, 1980, was married to an Italian duke and lived in Florence.

Her father Alexander is the seventh Prince zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn, descended from Count Ludwig Franz (1694-1750) and the Catholic branch of the German princely family.

The Duke of Edinburgh, whose family were related to the kings of Prussia and whose sisters married German princes, is a distant relative.

Filippa's mother, Countess Gabriela, told a German newspaper: "Not everyone is as lucky as to have had an angel on earth for 21 years.

"God lent her to us, now he has taken her back. She was taken from us at the height of her happiness."

The Princess's husband, Duke Vittorio Graf Mazzeti d'Albertis, was not travelling with his wife at the time of the crash.

Filippa, the fourth born, had six brothers and sisters.

"The Princess was a cousin of Prince Ernst of Hanover who is married to Princess Caroline of Monaco," said Burke's Peerage publishing director Harold Brooks-Baker.

"The Duke of Edinburgh is a distant relative."

source - BBC

hrhcp 10-19-2003 06:39 PM

You mean to inform me,
Count Von Schonborn_Wiesentheid

That "Countess Mariae Gloria von Schoenburg-Glauchau"

is none other than

Fuerstin Gloria of Thurn und Taxis ?

hrhcp 10-19-2003 06:55 PM


Count Von Schonborn_Wiesentheid  Posted: Oct 18th, 2003 - 9:16 pm

Wednesday, 3 October, 2001, 18:28 GMT 19:28 UK
German princess dies in motorway crash

I was just about to post a comment that you have good taste in pictures ... when I came across the picture at the end of the quoted post !

Sean.~ 10-19-2003 08:11 PM

Technically, they are not 'royalty'. They are Princely and Countly Houses. Just like the Princely family of Monaco is not Royal. Rather, they are a Princely family.

The only German royal families were the royal familes of Prussia, Bavaria, Wurrtemburg, Saxony, and the Grand Ducal families.

If you don't mind my asking, how are you related to the Countly Schonborn family, or is it just a screen name?


Adeema 10-20-2003 01:06 AM

Hello all, my information comes from here,

Count Alexander, in your profile you have your date of birth, :o I find it difficult to believe that you are 12! :o

Thank you for all your pictures
, did you take them yourself? :unsure:

This must be you,

Alexander Maximilian (b.Würzburg 17 Jun 1991)

son of PAUL Anton Gf von Schönborn-Wiesentheid (b.Lisbon 15 May 1962);
m.Venice (civ) 17 Apr 1989 (rel) 22 Apr 1989
Ctsa Damiana Lovatelli
(b.Lima, Peru 31 Mar 1961)


That "Countess Mariae Gloria von Schoenburg-Glauchau"

is none other than

Fuerstin Gloria of Thurn und Taxis ?

Yes, the Countess married a Prince and became a Princess. :D

JOHANNES Baptista de Jesus Maria Louis Miguel Friedrich Bonifazius Lamoral Fst von Thurn und Taxis
(Schloß Höfling bei Regensburg 5 Jun 1926-Grosshadern 14 Dec 1990);
m.Regensburg (civ) 30 May 1980 (rel) 31 May 1980
Maria Gloria Gfn von Schönburg-Glauchau (b.Stuttgart-Degerloch 23 Feb 1960)

Count Von Schonborn_Wiesentheid 10-22-2003 10:41 AM


I did not take these photos myself, but where you see my second cousin, Filippa getting married, i was at the wedding, which was six months before she was killed in England. I am 12 years of age, I just never teel people directly. My mother is Contessa Damiana Lovatelli and my father is Count Paul Anton von Schönborn-Wiesentheid as you know. I have four brothers' and one sister. We are all close at age by one or two years apart. Countess Mariae Gloria von Schoenburg-Glauchau is also known as "Mariae Gloria, Princess Thurn und Taxis." Mariea Gloria has been in debt since her husbund died in 1990.


I am Alexander von Schönborn-Wiesentheid, I just never tell people my real identy because some people tried to take advantage of me in the past. Those are the Royal Houses of Germany, there are others however. The others are the Mecklenburg-Strelitz Royal Family and the Mecklenburg-Schwerin Royal Family.

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