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Kingen 07-31-2019 03:53 PM

State Visit from the USA to Denmark: September 2-3, 2019 {Cancelled}
 
H.E. President Donald J. Trump and First Lady Melania Trump will pay a state visit to Denmark, upon invitation from H.M. The Queen. The state visit will take place 2-3 September 2019. A detailed program will be published later.

This is the fourth visit from an American President to Denmark. President Clinton's state visit to Denmark in 1997, was followed by a visit by President Bush in 2005 and President Obama in 2009, in connection with COP15.

The Queen, together with Prince Henrik, made a state visit to USA and President George H.W. Bush in 1991.

https://kongehuset.dk/nyheder/usas-pr...soeg-i-danmark

Lumutqueen 07-31-2019 04:09 PM

It’ll be nice to see the jewels and dresses.

Muhler 07-31-2019 04:49 PM

Yes, there were some discussions as to whether this would be a working (and short) political visit. I.e. a government head to government head encounter, with a short cutesy visit to QMII or a state visit.
It is now a full blown state visit - and at very short notice!

It seems there were no plans for a visit at all only a short time ago, but that the Danish government received a hint that the US President would like to be invited to DK.
As USA is a crucial ally to DK such hint will automatically lead to an official invitation on whatever level is desired. In this case a state visit.
The previous three US presidents have all visited DK.
President Clinton got a full state visit treatment at Fredensborg.
President Bush was on an official visit level IIRC and celebrated his birthday here. - He and the then Danish PM were personal friends so that was something the government very much wished for.
President Obama visited DK twice, on both cases on an audience level. Because he was here for other purposes, but a head of state always pays his or her respect to the head of state of the country they are visiting. (Except in very specific circumstances.)

It is no secret that the the politics of the current US administration is not in line with the views of the majority of Danish politicians, and certainly not with the current government. - It will be some baptism of fire our new PM will go through!
Now, why would President Trump like to visit DK of all places?

There are according to political commentators two main security political reasons:
A) DK has been one of the most steadfast allies with USA in regards to sending our military in the front line when requested. The latets request being to send DK soldiers to Syria to advise and support the Kurds there. - In reality they and other European troops going there will be human shields, preventing the Turks from attacking the Kurds. And at the same time President Trump can fulfill a promise of pulling US troops home from Syria.
Apart from that DK still has troops in Irag and Afghanistan.
This visit will be a nod of acknowledgment of that fact.
B) The Arctic.
DK is on behalf of Greenland laying claim to the North Pole. There is a good chance that the international courts will rule in favor of Greenland/Denmark. That will also be (officially) more palatable to Russia than USA or even Canada winning control over the North Pole.
Since DK is a member of NATO and a close ally to USA as well as USA having a large base in Greenland, that means that USA will control the North Pole by proxy.
Why is that important you ask.
Because as the arctic ice is melting rapidly these years, the arctic sea-routes become not only practical for commercial shipping but profitable. That means ships sailing from the Atlantic to the Pacific can sail through Greenlandic and Canadian waters rather than through the Panama canal, which despite being enlarged is pretty congested.
It is also important for Russia, because an alternative route is north of Russia and Russian has an economic interest in shipping going that way.
Shipping means money and security political implication, which necessitate protection. And that means a military build up in the Arctic.
Canada and DK has a co-operation and increased military presence in the Arctic, with USA holding back, in order not to antagonize the Russians (and Chinese) too much.
USA has expressed a wish to enlarge it's military contingent on the base in Greenland. - And that must be seen in the light of the increasing economic interests and possibilities the Arctic now presents.

So President Trump is not coming to DK to enjoy the scenery...

I guess we will not see our Marie and Joachim at the gala dinner. Joachim will after all just have started his course in France.

QMII is a seasoned host and she will no doubt take very good care of the Presidential couple, but as this is a state visit, there will be more than the odd audience. M&F will have an important role to play, not least in regards to accompanying the US First Lady.

polyesco 07-31-2019 07:01 PM

It will be interesting to see the upcoming agenda. As we have seen previously, Frederik with Mary play a huge role during the state visits.

the Queen will be visiting the state of Schleswig-Holstein starting on Sept. 3
H.M. Dronningen aflægger officielt besøg i delstaten Slesvig-Holsten og besøger det danske mindretal | Kongehuset

carina_a 07-31-2019 08:20 PM

That is some very short notice for a state visit for sure. When I saw the title I was expecting at the very end of the year or early next year.

Since DRF is low on manpower these days, sorry Fred & Maz:sad:

gerry 07-31-2019 10:50 PM

I wonder if the US presidential couple is coming to Denmark to check out if you are really the happiest people in the world or perhaps as a reaction to this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryppmnDbqJY
:flowers:

Muhler 08-01-2019 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carina_a (Post 2243407)
That is some very short notice for a state visit for sure. When I saw the title I was expecting at the very end of the year or early next year.

Since DRF is low on manpower these days, sorry Fred & Maz:sad:

Quote:

Originally Posted by polyesco (Post 2243404)
It will be interesting to see the upcoming agenda. As we have seen previously, Frederik with Mary play a huge role during the state visits.

the Queen will be visiting the state of Schleswig-Holstein starting on Sept. 3
H.M. Dronningen aflægger officielt besøg i delstaten Slesvig-Holsten og besøger det danske mindretal | Kongehuset

Very short notice indeed!

I cannot recall anything like this before. an incoming state visit followed by an outgoing official visit the very next day!
Fortunately QMII is in fine shape, but her summer holiday has just ended!
And so I'm afraid has M&F's, because they will shoulder most of the burden.
They may still be away, but they will have to do a lot of reading now!
There will be briefings, meetings with the government, background info to be digested, suggestions on what to do, laying out the details and for Mary in particular in what to wear. All that not least in the light of the well known spontaneity of the current US President.

I wonder if it is the DK government who (no doubt with full backing of the Foreign Political Council (*)) that has suggested this to be a full blown state visit?
Because our new Prime Minister, the Social Democrat, Mette Frederiksen is new on the job, and so are her ministers. This is the first incoming state visit. They will need all the help and support they can get and here the DRF comes in handy.

(*) Foreign Political Council (Udenrigspolitisk Nævn) is a Parlimentary advisory panel, that together with the government, lay out the foreign and security policy for Denmark and offer advise.
That means the government can quickly consult and sound out the opposition and the supporting parties as well. - I.e. what overall line can be agreed on - fast! Without having to go through the formalities of debating in the Parliament, answering questions in the Parliament and inviting spokespersons over for consultations.
And usually the council can work together and agree on an overall line in times of emergencies, after all the opposition may find themselves in a similar situation later on. So party political interests tend to be outweighed by national interests.
Because this is an emergency! Having the US President, who is well known for his frank approach in regards to diplomatic relations, de facto inviting himself over is a considerable challenge to any government!

Kingen 08-01-2019 05:16 AM

Not extremely short notice. The recent Korean state visits to Norway and Sweden were announced about two weeks in advance. That is really short notice!

I guess this will be business as usual in the DRF and how the tasks are divided. The custom nowadays is that F&M take care of the program and QMII only attends welcome ceremony, state banquet and return reception.

carina_a 08-01-2019 05:36 AM

The Court has published more details of QM's official visit to Schleswig-Holstein on 3-6 September 2019. It says that QM will arrive at Flensburg Harbour with Dannebrog on 3 September and upon arrival there will be a reception at the port of Flensburg.

So I guess we can assume that QM will not participate in the return dinner of the state visit?

Stefan 08-01-2019 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carina_a (Post 2243480)

So I guess we can assume that QM will not participate in the return dinner of the state visit?


If there is a return dinner at all. Could be that the Visit already ends in the afternoon of the second day.

Muhler 08-01-2019 06:49 AM

:previous: I too doubt there will be a return dinner. The visit s too short for that - and there are logistic (read: security problems) as well, which will take too long to organize.

https://www.bt.dk/politik/topraadgiv...get-anderledes
An advisor to a former DK Prime Minister has told a little about how such an improvised state visit is handled.
Basically plans for a visit by the US President are being made from around the time he is elected.
That means there are rough blue prints for handling such a visit.

This visit might be different, because President Trump is known to be impulsive.
It is already a slight breach of protocol to announce a visit before the hosting country is informed. - When the news broke, the DK government replied to the press that they didn't know about an upcoming visit, but that the US President is of course always welcome. The DRF didn't know about any visit either.

A state visit is at the highest level and between countries on very friendly terms, especially allies, that means you don't criticize your hosts. In other words: Were President Trump to express his annoyance with DK not spending 2 % (or more) of it's GNP on defense, that's a breach of protocol and can be compared to being invited to a lavish dinner, only to criticize the food...
- So a state visit may be very deliberate... :tongue:

What happens right now is that the Danish Foreign Ministry is contacting other countries that President Trump has visited, to learn about how to handle him. The dos and don'ts. That information is passed back to the PM's office. (And no doubt passed on to the court.)

- That's what friendly countries and allies are for. The same thing would apply had it been a visit by say the Chinese President.

rob2008 08-01-2019 07:14 AM

The reason for the state visit is a little more obvious. Trump is addicted to selfpromotion and the pomp of the British state visit honoured his whole extended family like a medieval monarch - with retinue. The grandeur of a Cristiansborg reception will meet his needs of grandiosity. He has to be honoured in the manner of any average egotistical dictator and the sparkle and dignity of the Danish court on the global stage is a means to that end.

Rudolph 08-01-2019 10:06 AM

Do American Presidents normally address the Danish Parliament during a state visit?

Muhler 08-01-2019 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudolph (Post 2243542)
Do American Presidents normally address the Danish Parliament during a state visit?

No.
Nor do any other foreign heads of states.
It is however customary that a visiting head of state at least meet with the leader with the opposition, in this case former PM, Lars Løkke, whom he has actually met before and seemingly got on with fairly well.
It is also customary to meet the Chairman of the Parliament.

Kingen 08-01-2019 10:28 AM

It will be interesting to see the length of this state visit, considering QMII visit to Germany from the 3rd and that she is scheduled for Public Audiences at Christiansborg on the 2nd (from 10am). I'm not sure, but have understood that the audiences last for a few hours at least.

Muhler 08-01-2019 10:36 AM

It is very likely the audiences will be cancelled. Especially if the US President will be anywhere near Christiansborg that day.

Here is a BB gallery of QMII at the visits of the previous US Presidents:https://www.billedbladet.dk/kendte/i...e-praesidenter

Rudolph 08-01-2019 10:41 AM

Well I’m looking forward to this visit. It’s important NATO allies keep a close relationship. Denmark is a valued member of the alliance.

Mbruno 08-01-2019 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 2243588)
Here is a BB gallery of QMII at the visits of the previous US Presidents:https://www.billedbladet.dk/kendte/i...e-praesidenter

I thought President Clinton had paid a state visit to Denmark, but the pictures in the link show a business suit dinner (?). I wonder why.

Al_bina 08-01-2019 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 2243368)
Yes, there were some discussions as to whether this would be a working (and short) political visit. I.e. a government head to government head encounter, with a short cutesy visit to QMII or a state visit.
It is now a full blown state visit - and at very short notice!

It seems there were no plans for a visit at all only a short time ago, but that the Danish government received a hint that the US President would like to be invited to DK.
As USA is a crucial ally to DK such hint will automatically lead to an official invitation on whatever level is desired. In this case a state visit.
The previous three US presidents have all visited DK.
President Clinton got a full state visit treatment at Fredensborg.
President Bush was on an official visit level IIRC and celebrated his birthday here. - He and the then Danish PM were personal friends so that was something the government very much wished for.
President Obama visited DK twice, on both cases on an audience level. Because he was here for other purposes, but a head of state always pays his or her respect to the head of state of the country they are visiting. (Except in very specific circumstances.)

It is no secret that the the politics of the current US administration is not in line with the views of the majority of Danish politicians, and certainly not with the current government. - It will be some baptism of fire our new PM will go through!
Now, why would President Trump like to visit DK of all places?

There are according to political commentators two main security political reasons:
A) DK has been one of the most steadfast allies with USA in regards to sending our military in the front line when requested. The latets request being to send DK soldiers to Syria to advise and support the Kurds there. - In reality they and other European troops going there will be human shields, preventing the Turks from attacking the Kurds. And at the same time President Trump can fulfill a promise of pulling US troops home from Syria.
Apart from that DK still has troops in Irag and Afghanistan.
This visit will be a nod of acknowledgment of that fact.
B) The Arctic.
DK is on behalf of Greenland laying claim to the North Pole. There is a good chance that the international courts will rule in favor of Greenland/Denmark. That will also be (officially) more palatable to Russia than USA or even Canada winning control over the North Pole.
Since DK is a member of NATO and a close ally to USA as well as USA having a large base in Greenland, that means that USA will control the North Pole by proxy.
Why is that important you ask.
Because as the arctic ice is melting rapidly these years, the arctic sea-routes become not only practical for commercial shipping but profitable. That means ships sailing from the Atlantic to the Pacific can sail through Greenlandic and Canadian waters rather than through the Panama canal, which despite being enlarged is pretty congested.
It is also important for Russia, because an alternative route is north of Russia and Russian has an economic interest in shipping going that way.
Shipping means money and security political implication, which necessitate protection. And that means a military build up in the Arctic.
Canada and DK has a co-operation and increased military presence in the Arctic, with USA holding back, in order not to antagonize the Russians (and Chinese) too much.
USA has expressed a wish to enlarge it's military contingent on the base in Greenland. - And that must be seen in the light of the increasing economic interests and possibilities the Arctic now presents.
... [snipped].

It is strange to read about " USA holding back, in order not to antagonize the Russians (and Chinese) too much" and "USA has expressed a wish to enlarge it's military contingent on the base in Greenland". Hopefully Russia and China will reciprocate in the Central and South Americas.

Muhler 08-01-2019 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al_bina (Post 2243598)
It is strange to read about " USA holding back, in order not to antagonize the Russians (and Chinese) too much" and "USA has expressed a wish to enlarge it's military contingent on the base in Greenland". Hopefully Russia and China will reciprocate in the Central and South Americas.

Well, I won't comment on that personally.

The whole purpose of this visit is politics and there will be a lot of politics in the translations, summaries and background info I will end up posting in this thread. Certainly in regards to the overall political lines.
All that will be conveyed as unbiased as possible by me and I will keep my personal political opinion to myself while the visit lasts. I have no wish to see this thread closed. This visit is too interesting in every possible way.

The international protocol for state visits is that the host nation will foot the bill for accommodating and feeding the foreign head of state and an entourage of max twenty persons.
The visiting nation will pay for accommodating additional members of the entourage.
The reason is to prevent a head of state from bringing an entourage of ten thousand, who must all be accommodated and fed, lavishly, by the host nation. At a tremendous cost! - An insidious way of annoying another country! :biggrin:
Needless to say a US president brings with him an entourage of considerably more than twenty persons! But they will be paid for by the US taxpayers.

Security.
Will be massive!
According to Danish legislation no foreign police officers or security agents have authority on Danish soil, unless under direct command by Danish police officers. Nor are they allowed to be armed. - An exception is foreign police officers giving chase across the border, until Danish police can take over.
The US Secret Service is armed to the teeth!
A simple way to get around that is to issue the Secret Service agents with diplomatic passports. And diplomatically close the eyes... In that way they are not searched nor questioned and their... peculiar... baggage is not searched nor questioned either. And should the worst thing happen, that there will be an incident, the Secret Service agent enjoy immunity from prosecution.
Pretty routine. Danish police officers and security agents also have diplomatic passports when operating in more high risk places abroad. We have seen that many times with the DRF.

Where will President Trump stay?
Is not known yet.

President Bush and his wife stayed at Fredensborg when he came visiting. That is a plausible. Fredensborg is larger and easier to secure than the guest mansion at Amalienborg. There has to be room for communications, staff, advisors, an office and so. There is room for that at Fredensborg but not Amalienborg.
An alternative if the US embassy. But it's really not that big and it's more difficult to secure.
Other alternatives is to commandeer a hotel or borrow a private manor near Copenhagen.
But so far I believe that Fredensborg is the most likely place. Also because the President can be flown in and out by helicopter.

Where will the gala-dinner take place?
Well, there are only two options:
Christiansborg, which is designed for large events like this. But there is no room for accommodation afterwards. But surrounded by a moat it's easy to secure, even though it's located in the middle of Copenhagen.
Fredensborg is of course the most convenient solution, should the President be accommodated there. It is smaller, but also more intimate and much more beautiful than Christiansborg with a lot of history. And I imagine President Trump will appreciate the tradition with visiting heads of state scribbling their name on a pane of glass which will be placed in one of the windows. Perhaps near the signatures of Winston Churchill and Eisenhower.
Certainly Presidents Bush and Clinton seemed to enjoy the more intimate atmosphere at Fredensborg, but we shall see.

Day one, I'm sure, will be welcoming with the President and QMII in the lead.
Day two however will be more political and here M&F will step in taking care of the First Lady. I imagine there will be a couple of events in the forenoon hosted by M&F perhaps culminating in a lunch at M&F's mansion at Amalienborg, while the President has a business lunch with Danish politicians.

Now, the planners at the Foreign Ministry are very good at making guests feel at ease. So if you can imagine something Donald Trump, not President Trump, but Donald Trump would like to see or experience while in DK, they will do their best to arrange it.

Al_bina 08-01-2019 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 2243640)
Well, I won't comment on that personally.

The whole purpose of this visit is politics and there will be a lot of politics in the translations, summaries and background info I will end up posting in this thread. Certainly in regards to the overall political lines.
All that will be conveyed as unbiased as possible by me and I will keep my personal political opinion to myself while the visit lasts. I have no wish to see this thread closed. This visit is too interesting in every possible way. ... [snipped]

Thanks for your brilliantly diplomatic answer!:flowers::flowers::flowers::flowers:
I am looking forward to seeing Queen Margrethe's grand entrance for the state gala and blue-and-red attired hussars.

HereditaryPrincess 08-01-2019 04:12 PM

Interesting. I'll keep my opinions on Trump to myself during this visit :biggrin: But all I can say, is, rather them than me!

Muhler 08-01-2019 05:05 PM

Additional political background info.

Every single political commentator I have heard and read agree that this visit is not about Denmark. Denmark is at best secondary.
It's about Greenland and the Arctic.

And indirectly China. Greenland has autonomy, except for law enforcement, the courts, foreign policy and defense - that is still under Danish control.
However, there is a considerable movement in Greenland, not least among the political and opinion elite there, for independence. Preferably still with the Danish monarch as head of state, but otherwise independent.
The problem is of course that Greenland has a population of around 60.000 of which around 10 % are Danes, primarily specialists in various fields. (Plus 6-10.000 Greenlanders in DK.)
That is the population of a medium sized Danish municipality and as such way below the critical mass of running a fully independent country. There are simply too few to fill out all the needed functions for a country to work. They will have to import foreign specialists. And Greenland isn't wealthy enough to do that.
In comes China.
China has offered to pay for an extension of the Greenlandic infrastructure. Has offered to pay for drilling and probing for resources, mainly oil and gold. That is something Greenlandic politicians very much hope will form the economic basis for independence. I.e. in the hope that Greenland will become a kind of Arctic Kuwait.
There is already a Chinese presence there in jobs that the Greenlanders are not that keen to take themselves. I.e. in the fishing industry and mines on the isolated east coast of Greenland.
It is obvious that China does not invest in Greenland without a reason.
That is blatantly obvious in Copenhagen and Washington as well.

In case of a Greenlandic independence, which DK will not and cannot prevent if they really want to, the Greenlanders may soon realize that they have exchanged (out of sheer necessity) one "colonial power" for another. Despite being warned repeatedly.
By having economic control over Greenland, China will also have physical and political control over the country. And as such also control over parts of the arctic shipping lane going through Canadian waters. And should China be "invited" by a Greenlandic government to set up a Chinese base in Greenland to help "protect" Greenlandic territory and fishing the situation becomes even more interesting. Also for Russia. Threatening the alternative shipping lane north of Siberia. It become even more interesting should a Greenlandic government decide to cancel the agreement of having as US base there.

That base, the Thule Base, has always been critical as an early warning post in the defense of North America. It is even more critical now that the ice is retreating as a consequence of the climate (at least until the Gulf Stream stops) changing.
There is no way in this world USA, no matter who sits in the White House, will tolerate a Chinese dominance over Greenland, let alone that China has a significant presence there. Greenland must remain under Western control - preferably through Denmark.
That the Greenlanders will have a say in this matter is naive.
If USA don't go in, China will. If China won't another country will go in.

That is the hard political facts and the Greenlanders have been warned.
Should the Greenlanders opt for independence there is no public will in Denmark to assist them more than absolutely necessary. They are on their own!

The head of the Greenland Parliament, Kim Kielsen, will also be invited to both the gala dinner (they always are) and to meet the US President.
https://politiken.dk/udland/art73176...6lles-historie
He looks forward to meeting the President. But he can at best expect a few polite words, the fate of Greenland is not decided in its capital Nuuk.
And despite the fact that USA has requested setting up a diplomatic presence in Greenland. Obviously to influence the Greenlandic politicians.

The climate is politically fashionable here in DK these days. In fact the new government here was elected on doing something for the climate.
The Danish PM has today announced that this issue won't even come up in the discussions with the US President. Which is somewhat ironic, since it's the climate that is part of the reason why things are changing politically in the Arctic these years.

There is a considerable huffing and puffing among a number of Danish politicians who urge the government to bring a number of matters to the attention of President Trump. But that's mainly for domestic political consumption. They know it, the political commentators know it, most of the Danish public know it - and the Americans don't care.

And for those of you who have managed to stay awake so far, I will end this post with these three delightful photos. You have probably seen them before, but here in better quality:
https://bt.bmcdn.dk/media/cache/reso...inton-dk-3.jpg
https://bt.bmcdn.dk/media/cache/reso.../23036623-.jpg
https://bt.bmcdn.dk/media/cache/reso...iockbh2009.jpg

Somebody 08-01-2019 05:59 PM

It sounds as if this state visit is rather 'forced' on Denmark. Of course, after it was made known that the president of the US wanted to bring a state visit on certain dates an invitation was issued, but the fact that it's short and very inconveniently planned for the Danish royal family suggests that it wasn't something the Danish came up with nor a truly joined effort.

Osipi 08-01-2019 08:37 PM

I am looking forward to following this state visit and I'm sure Denmark will be the perfect host to the US entourage. Always love seeing Queen "Daisy" Margrethe dressed to the nines.

I do have one big hope out of everything that will happen with this state visit. I sincerely hope President Trump doesn't lay eyes on what seems to be a trend these days with ugly, brown shoes and rubber galoshes. Perhaps we should email Melania and warn her about those so she can get Donald some blinders. :biggrin:

Muhler 08-02-2019 02:50 AM

Just as much as I love following an official event, the background for such an event and the work behind the scenes is just as interesting, if not more, than the actual event itself.

It is emerging that this visit was far from being such a big surprise. The specific timing may have been at a short notice but not this state visit. On the contrary.

Okay, USA is a vital ally for DK, so various governments are always trying to cultivate good relations to whatever president is sitting in the White House.
That also applies to the previous DK government.
President Trump took office on 20. January 2017. On the 30. March that year the then DK Prime Minister, Lars Løkke, met with President Trump in the White House as one of the first government leaders to do so. Something the DK Foreign Ministry, according to a source was very proud of. On top of that the personal meeting went well. (So did meetings with President Obama with the same PM BTW. Lars Løkke is very good at person to person relations, when he wants to. While being utterly ruthless as a politician when it suits him.) During that meeting an ever standing invitation to the US President to visit DK was extended.

Denmark has for many years now been a hawk among the US allies in Europe. What Denmark is saying matters in itself very little, but it being said out loud is noticed in Washington. Especially in regards to Iran and Russia. Not least when DK, after a foiled assassination plot was attempted in 2018 by an Iranian intelligence branch against Iranian exiles in DK, led to DK persuading EU to put that intelligence branch on the terror-list.
(I remember that clearly. Copenhagen and half the country was in shut-down for 24 hours and the political outrage was genuine across the political spectrum.)
That was something the Foreign Office in USA noticed. And according to a source it was easy for DK to set up meetings with US officials afterwards and the phone was answered when DK called.
Also when Russia detained a number of Ukrainian sailors. (The article says Russian sailors, but they must mean Ukrainian.) DK called for EU to impose further sanctions against Russia. - Something that delighted President Trump's Security Advisor, John Bolton.
That led to a meeting between John Bolton and the then DK Foreign Minister, where talks about expanding the Thule Base in Greenland was initiated.
And political commentators have all (I haven't noticed anyone who didn't) pointed to this being the main purpose of this visit.

There is as yet no official schedule for what will happen politically during this visit, but the new PM, Mette Frederiksen, has stated that topics for discussion will be international security issues, the Arctic and promoting trade and investments. (USA is the second largest market for DK trade.) - That is very much in line with the interests of the previous DK government and in general line with the overall Danish interests, regardless of the government.

So to sum up: This state visit is the culmination of a long standing Danish policy of being on as good footing as possible with the US President at any time.
The former DK PM, Lars Løkke (Liberal), while at times being openly critical, even angry, of President Trump did nevertheless manage to foster a good relationship with him.
His predecessor, Helle Thorning (Social Democrat), cultivated a good personal relationship with President Obama. (Remember the selfies anyone?)
Her predecessor, Anders Fogh (Liberal), developed a personal friendship with President Bush.
And his predecessor, Poul Nyrup (Social Democrat), started the whole process with President Clinton.
And now the current PM, Mette Frederiksen (Social Democrat), has been handed the torch.

Tarlita 08-02-2019 03:04 AM

I well remember George Bush's visit with his daughter. And Fred showing the Obama's the reception room with the fabulous Gobelin tapestries. I wonder how many of Trump's children will arrive with him this time?

Duc_et_Pair 08-02-2019 05:34 AM

That is a nice visit to look forward to. The Danish hosts wil do it -as always- with great style and grace.

Muhler 08-02-2019 06:17 AM

Thanks you.
I simply love this stuff! :biggrin:

The political and commercial and well as PR analyses are pouring in.

Let me start with Melania Trump.
As we all know the First Lady of any country can be just as important in various ways as the actual head of state. Certainly get more attention. That is however unlikely during this visit, which is so much about politics. But nevertheless a visiting First Lady is cultivated just as much as her husband. (We are, I fear, not yet at the stage where a First Husband get a similar coverage.)
And as mentioned before this is where M&F comes in.
Now what do Mary have in common with Melania Trump?
Mary has started the very successful Free from bullying concept here in DK. (Which is now being exported BTW. Thank you for the great idea, Australians. ;) )
Melania Trump has involved herself in net-bullying of children. So this is a field where she and Mary can have serious discussions and perhaps visit a kindergarten where the Free from bullying concept has been implemented.
Fashion is also something the two women have in common. Fashion happens to be one the largest export sectors for Danish commerce. We are talking serious money here! And Danish commerce would be delighted if this was included somehow.
All that based on what Trine Larsen from Billed Bladet has told in the news.
Melania Trump vil også være på arbejde under statsbesøg i Danmark - TV 2

As mentioned before, this visit is very much about Greenland, the Arctic and the North Pole. Politically it is truly a can of worms!
But what about the Danish relationship with Russia in that respect?
A number of nations lay claim to the North Pole. Greenland (aka Denmark) has a good chance of winning the rights to the North Pole. Both geologically as Greenland lies on same underwater plateau as the North Pole but also because Greenland (Denmark) is small enough to be politically palatable for Russia, China and USA who also lay claim on the North Pole.
Now, should Greenland (DK) win the North Pole, that means that Danish territory will extend as far as the shipping lane north of Siberia. - And Denmark is a close ally of USA...
At present Russia is expanding militarily north of Siberia and they actually have a base only a 1.000 km from the east coast of Greenland. That is relatively shorter than the distance between the American base of Thule and the east coast of Greenland.
As you know USA has requested to expand the Thule Base. They have also requested permission for US ships (warships and Coast Guard no doubt) to sail into Greenlandic ports and for US planes to land in Greenlandic airports and airstrips.
The Russians won't like that!
So far USA is still dependent on the Danish navy, because USA, surprisingly, only has one icebreaker. Denmark has several, that can all be deployed to Greenland. Not to mention what is already there.
So far so good, but there is still the little problem with Russia...
It is not in Danish interest to annoy the Russians too much. That can cause problems elsewhere, which we would very much like to avoid. And despite the EU sanctions it's also bad for business.
But the most important thing is that DK is the fifth largest merchant shipping nation, controlling some 12 % of the merchant shipping in the world. Larger than USA and Russia.
It is very much in Danish interests to keep the route north of Siberia open for Danish shipping as well.
So our new PM, Mette Frederiksen, face some very delicate challenges when negotiating with USA. It is unlikely that all US requests can come true. An enlargement of the Thule Base, yes. But US warships and warplanes in Greenlandic ports and airports? Only in "emergencies" I think.
DK simply cannot give USA too much, that would antagonize the Russians too much.
Danmark i klemme mellem stormagter - Trump kan have to ønsker med til Frederiksen - TV 2

President Trump will visit DK on Labor Day, which is US national holiday. It is also a slow news day there, which means that his state visit here, with all the pomp and circumstances there is in visiting a monarchy, may get more coverage than it would otherwise have received...
It is very much speculated that such footage will suit the President well.
News-wise the visit to Poland prior to going to DK is bigger in USA. But as the US press is in the general area anyway, they might just as well cover this visit as well.
Trump besøger Danmark på særlig dag, og det kan give maksimal omtale - TV 2

The climate may after all end up on the agenda, but in a round about way, it is speculated. Climate friendly solutions, know how and technology may be presented in a way that appeals to the businessman Trump.

Now to a more amusing side of this visit. It is no secret that President Trump is very fond of fast food.
As some you may remember setting up a hotdog stand to provide a night snack at DRF parties has virtually become a tradition. I wonder if the gala dinner won't end in a similar manner? That might be a little touch he might appreciate. We shall see.
DK hotdogs are very addictive! And once you have tasted one... you are hooked. The first one is free... :biggrin:

Tarlita 08-02-2019 07:09 AM

It's funny isn't it how all of a sudden Denmark is thrust onto the world stage, all because the US is interested in Greenland and POTUS is making a State visit. Careful diplomacy must be observed.

MidwestMom 08-02-2019 08:28 AM

Thank you Muhler for your thorough background posts. So far, this hasn't made the news sites in the US - at least not the ones that I follow. Sept. 2 and 3 should be interesting.

Mbruno 08-02-2019 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarlita (Post 2243813)
It's funny isn't it how all of a sudden Denmark is thrust onto the world stage, all because the US is interested in Greenland and POTUS is making a State visit. Careful diplomacy must be observed.


Call me a skeptic if you want, but I doubt Mr Trump has any knowledge about or interest in Greenland or Arctic issues.

polyesco 08-02-2019 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osipi (Post 2243739)
I am looking forward to following this state visit and I'm sure Denmark will be the perfect host to the US entourage. Always love seeing Queen "Daisy" Margrethe dressed to the nines.

I do have one big hope out of everything that will happen with this state visit. I sincerely hope President Trump doesn't lay eyes on what seems to be a trend these days with ugly, brown shoes and rubber galoshes. Perhaps we should email Melania and warn her about those so she can get Donald some blinders. :biggrin:

LOL. That "trend" is over in Norway thanks to Haakon, but so far Frederik has steered clear :cool:.

thank you Muhler for the very informative posts. :flowers:
I hope Frederik with his vast knowledge of Greenland can enlighten a few in the US delegation. Probably a trip to the State of Green will be useful.

Duc_et_Pair 08-02-2019 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 2243826)
Call me a skeptic if you want, but I doubt Mr Trump has any knowledge about or interest in Greenland or Arctic issues.

There is always a reason.

China visiting tiny Monaco. And there comes the monkey out of the sleeve: the principality is the first full 5G network-equipped European state. With gracious cooperation of the Chinese giant Huawei.

The US visiting Denmark: you have something we are veeeeery interested into... (Greenland).

Dalriada 08-02-2019 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarlita (Post 2243788)
I well remember George Bush's visit with his daughter. And Fred showing the Obama's the reception room with the fabulous Gobelin tapestries. I wonder how many of Trump's children will arrive with him this time?



Recently Trump’s children were given a splendid reception in Ireland when they ventured forth into the neighbouring village where they paid for a drink for every person in all five pubs over two nights. Carlsberg too is probably one of the most favourite beverages in Ireland.

Moonmaiden23 08-02-2019 02:42 PM

The Danes are pretty laid back, peaceful people. They won't protest this visit like they did in the U.K.....will they?:ermm:

Pranter 08-02-2019 02:50 PM

Should be interesting to see what comes about AFTER the visit is over in regards to long term policies or actions in some of the areas Muhler has mentioned.



LaRae

Tarlita 08-02-2019 03:28 PM

China visit to Monaco
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2243871)
There is always a reason.

China visiting tiny Monaco. And there comes the monkey out of the sleeve: the principality is the first full 5G network-equipped European state. With gracious cooperation of the Chinese giant Huawei.

The US visiting Denmark: you have something we are veeeeery interested into... (Greenland).


Thank you for that information. For the life of me I couldn't at the time work out why President Xi would visit Monaco. Now we know. Very interesting.
I look forward to seeing the photo's of this visit from Potus to Denmark.

I read an article somewhere that as the ice shelf is melting in Greenland it is exposing the ground to a point where it will be easier for miners to extract the Rare Earth minerals that are so prevalent in Greenland.
This is why Russia, China and the USA are so interested in the place now.
If this is true. Interesting times ahead, especially as we think about potential contamination of a pristine wilderness from mining operations.

Muhler 08-02-2019 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarlita (Post 2243903)
I read an article somewhere that as the ice shelf is melting in Greenland it is exposing the ground to a point where it will be easier for miners to extract the Rare Earth minerals that are so prevalent in Greenland.
This is why Russia, China and the USA are so interested in the place now.
If this is true. Interesting times ahead, especially as we think about potential contamination of a pristine wilderness from mining operations.

You are spot on. :smile:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 (Post 2243887)
The Danes are pretty laid back, peaceful people. They won't protest this visit like they did in the U.K.....will they?:ermm:

There will be protests. And considering that President Trump is a controversial person probably pretty large protests.
There are some extreme left wingers who may try and pick a fight with the police, we must hope they will be contained. As for the rest they will be peaceful and they will no doubt do their very best to ridicule the President, so expect a lot of caricatures.
In contrast to London, the Social Democrat mayor of Copenhagen will not lead any protests. He will not embarrass his capital, his country and his Prime Minister - who as you know is also a Social Democrat. - Things will be difficult enough for her as they are!
There are plans to get the famous/infamous Trump-blimp to Copenhagen. Whether that will be possible is the question. In contrast to London, the mayor has no say in launching air-balloons. That's up to the Ministry of Traffic - under the government. So the chance of the Trump-blimp being launched legally are IMO pretty slim.
However, I doubt President Trump will be anywhere near the protestors anyway. Apart from driving past some here and there. Again, in contrast to London there is little political will to rock the boat too much during this visit. And as such little political will to actually make sure the President is presented, so to speak, to the protestors.

As for the citizens of Copenhagen. I think I can safely say that most already wish this visit was over. So that they can get on with normal business of getting to and from work. Copenhagen isn't larger than this visit will cause major disturbances for the locals.
As for us in the rest of the country this means that an already over-stretched police force will be concentrated in Copenhagen. The burglars are right now polishing their crowbars! Unless you are being murdered the police response time will be around five years from late August. :ermm:
But perhaps we will get a little help from Swedish police? The Scandinavian police forces helping each other with manpower has been seen before at major security events.

Tarlita 08-02-2019 04:51 PM

I think that's a grand idea getting the Swedish police to help out.
If the Queen puts on a State dinner or lunch at the request of her government Mr President will love it.
As Denmark and the DRF put on a splendid pomp and ceremony occasion and he loves that.

ladongas 08-03-2019 12:42 AM

Will there be a white tie occasion? I’m looking forward to seeing President Trump in his evening wear again.

Muhler 08-04-2019 11:18 AM

Perhaps we should look at the formalities behind a state or official visit.

When visiting a foreign country the DK monarch or prime minister will extend a general invitation to the foreign head of state to visit Denmark.
At some point the foreign office in that country will send a note to the Danish Foreign Ministry that their head of state would like to come visiting.
The Danish government will consider that and say OK.
Then the court will be informed that the government would like a state visit by the head of state from country XX to take place. The court (i.e. the Danish monarch) will usually, but not always, say yes.
The foreign ministries in both DK and the other country will talk a little back and forth about when the state visit should take place. - That's usually at least a year or two before it's about to happen.
Then the court will send a personal message to the head of state of the foreign country inviting the head of state to come visiting either on specific dates or at a more unspecific date. Say Primo April 2022.
That invitation will be graciously accepted and some time later the press will be informed that president/king/queen YY will come to Denmark on this and that date (or alternatively in the spring of 2022) on an official state visit.

Then things become busy!
Now there will be talks and meetings back and forth regards all the details of the visit.
The Foreign Ministry together with the court will lay out some suggestions and compare them with wishes expressed by the foreign office of the visiting country and they will agree on an overall plan, usually pretty fast. Both countries will usually have a rough blueprint, which is modified from time to time, lying in a drawer somewhere.
That overall plan, is then published and when further details are in place a more detailed schedule will be published.

There will still be meetings and polishing of all the multitudes of details before a state visit happens though and at some point the press will be informed in more details about the agenda.
And at this point there will usually be a press-meeting with both the Danish monarch as well as the incoming head of state.

And then (fanfare) the state visit takes place.

Follow up.

Of course a state visit or official visit doesn't happen just because say the Vietnamese president wakes up one morning and think: Hmm, how about a state visit to Denmark in 2022?
A) It's a natural culmination of events.
Like a visit to Estonia shortly after the independence. Partly to acknowledge the new country, partly to emphasize friendly relations and partly to celebrate friendly co-operation.
In the case with Estonia DK offered considerable advise on state-administrative level - and Estonia had the opportunity to practice how to set up and handle a visit at this level from a friendly country, that wouldn't be offended by the odd mistakes.

B) Or it's a part of ongoing trade negotiations. And that's something the DRF in particular does a lot!
In the case with Vietnam, DK had for a long time worked on gaining the trust of the back then much more Communist system. And after years of work DK managed to gain a foothold and started serious negotiations and co-operation with both the Vietnamese government and businesses, having learned to overcome local bureaucracy and mutual cultural differences.
So the state visit to Vietnam became a natural culmination of these dealings and a lot of business contracts were signed and even more business negotiations were started during that visit where DK (and Vietnam in DK) was profiled in a hopefully positive light.
- That is today the main functions of the DRF when they go abroad. Promoting and aiding Danish commerce and businesses.

C) Neighborhood visits. State and official visits between in particular the Nordic countries are frequent. Partly because the royal families are not only closely related but also close personal friends.
Partly because there is a strong interest in cementing the good relations between neighboring countries.
And with the added bonus that the courts, the individual royals and the civil servants can practice such visits among friends so to speak. There are always mistakes, but here there is no danger of a diplomatic crisis or contracts being torn apart as a consequence of such mistakes.

D) And then there are incoming visits by heads of states who are also heads of their government, like the US President.
They are often strongly political, but there are still formalities to be respected, especially when it's a full blown state visit, - which in itself is also a political statement.

- I know, I know, most of this is well-known to most of you, but it is my experience that what may be obvious to some may not be obvious to others.

ADDED.
There are concrete plans of taking the baby-Trump blimp to DK during the upcoming visit, where it will paraded at street level, provided the import license is in place and vat is paid. And it still requires a permit from the local police.
In DK all demonstrations needs a permit from the local police, in order to ensure it won't be too much of a disturbance to public order and traffic, to guide the traffic around the demonstration and to protect the demonstrators.
Spontaneous or unannounced demonstrations are illegal and can be dissolved on the spot.

Mbruno 08-04-2019 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladongas (Post 2243984)
Will there be a white tie occasion? I’m looking forward to seeing President Trump in his evening wear again.

I assume there will be as incoming state visits to Denmark normally include a white-tie gala dinner.

Kingen 08-06-2019 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 2243555)
It is very likely the audiences will be cancelled. Especially if the US President will be anywhere near Christiansborg that day.

Indeed. The audiences have now been scratched from the calendar.

ladongas 08-06-2019 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 2244386)
I assume there will be as incoming state visits to Denmark normally include a white-tie gala dinner.

If so, I hope Trump has visited his tailor for the necessary adjustments to his clothing.

Muhler 08-09-2019 08:09 AM

It is pretty much an open secret that Frederik has long been deeply involved in the day to day administration of the court and also in laying out new guidelines for say the social media the DRF use nowadays. - Of course in co-operation with his mother.

QMII will stay in France for the next ten-twelve days or so, I understand, while Frederik is Regent.
While there she may read up on President Trump. Reading a biography or two I imagine, while having a look at the draft the PM's office has send her, in regards to the speech she will give at the gala.
When she returns home, there will be briefings and final meetings and decisions, I guess. There are after all a number of things only the Monarch can decide.

However, I wonder if she hasn't left Frederik pretty much in charge of the initial handlings and preparations as well as decisions that has to be made in connection with a state visit? Especially if the US President is going to stay at Fredensborg.
There will be a multitude of things that at least needs an OK from the Monarch/Regent. Everything from flower-decorations to the menu, to selecting the entertainment, to accepting or politely declining wishes from the incoming guests and so on and so on.
- Perhaps assisted by Mary?
So that when QMII returns she will do an inspection and add her final touches to the whole show.

So I wonder if QMII has so much confidence in Frederik now being well-drilled enough to run most by himself, that she leaves most to him?
The ultimate on-job-training.

ROYAL NORWAY 08-15-2019 12:15 PM

Thanks to Muhler for his always interesting and well-informed posts! :flowers:

--------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob2008 (Post 2243496)
The reason for the state visit is a little more obvious. Trump is addicted to selfpromotion and the pomp of the British state visit honoured his whole extended family like a medieval monarch - with retinue. The grandeur of a Cristiansborg reception will meet his needs of grandiosity. He has to be honoured in the manner of any average egotistical dictator and the sparkle and dignity of the Danish court on the global stage is a means to that end.

If he wants grandeur, sparkle and dignity: Well, a gala-dinner at the palace in Oslo with two Ballrooms (where guardsmen from The King's guard stand along the procession route - see this post - link) and a Banqueting Hall (where the tables are set with some amazing silver - see this post - link) would give him just as good pictures as those from ''Riddersalen'' at Christiansborg (called The Great Hall in English, although the exact translation is ''The Knights' Hall'').

Yes, just had to say it! Must be the Norwegian in me! LOL.

But when it comes to Danish royal palaces, I prefer the beautiful (although smaller and more intimate) ''Kuppelsalen'' (The Dome Hall) at Fredensborg. However, I'm pretty sure The White House has pointed out that Trump likes it as grand as possible. - And if they have digged a bit, they will have discovered that both Hu Jintao of China and Macron of France had the gala-dinners in their honour at Christiansborg, so that will most likely be the place I think (hope I'm wrong BTW).

rob2008 08-15-2019 02:28 PM

Macron's Garde Républicaine is an impressive sight though.

Muhler 08-15-2019 02:46 PM

:previous: sure is!
And so are the Swedish Drabant Guard, dressed like cuirassiers from around 1715.

polyesco 08-15-2019 06:44 PM

oh dear, I hope he doesn't think he can ask the Queen...:ermm::lol:
"Trump has privately asked aides about the possibility of purchasing Greenland"
https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ring-greenland

Osipi 08-15-2019 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polyesco (Post 2246371)
oh dear, I hope he doesn't think he can ask the Queen...:ermm::lol:
"Trump has privately asked aides about the possibility of purchasing Greenland"
https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ring-greenland

Oh my! I'd love to be a fly on the wall to witness that question. Picture this: Trump asks what the purchase price is for Greenland to Queen Margrethe. The Queen promptly answers "a fair price due on the second Tuesday of next week" with a wink and a giggle as she walks away. Trump stands there for five minutes in silence trying to figure out what Queen Margrethe just told him. :biggrin:

Sorry, had to do it. The temptation was too strong to resist. :whistling:

MidwestMom 08-15-2019 09:19 PM

He wants to buy Greenland???? :bang:

Gawin 08-16-2019 09:33 AM

Perhaps we can persuade Greenland to buy Trump.

Mbruno 08-16-2019 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polyesco (Post 2246371)
oh dear, I hope he doesn't think he can ask the Queen...:ermm::lol:
"Trump has privately asked aides about the possibility of purchasing Greenland"
https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ring-greenland


It may sound ridiculous today, but Russia sold Alaska to the US a little over 150 years ago. And, not so long ago, in 1946 actually, the US did make an actual offer to Denmark to buy Greenland.


Denmark also sold the Virgin Islands to the US in 1917.

Biri 08-16-2019 09:53 AM

And what about the vote of the natives?

Muhler 08-16-2019 10:05 AM

Yes, several US papers refer to two sources saying that President Trump has on several occasions vented the idea of USA buying Greenland and asked his aides to look into the matter - in regards to practicality and economy.

There is actually a precedence. USA bought the Virgin Islands from DK in 1917. But that was in 1917 and the islands were colonies in a time when colonies were common. (It can also be argued that DK had little choice.)
USA has also asked about the price for Greenland in 1867 and again in 1947. In 1947 it ended up with an agreement with USA to set up the Thule Base.

Okay, when the US administration contemplates anything that involves Denmark or rather the Danish Realm, the Danish government and the Parliament has to consider that seriously. No matter how unusual it may appear.

Any proposal of buying Greenland has and will be dismissed out of hand.
There are three reasons for that:
A) We can't sell Greenland. The land and the natural resources there legally belongs to the Greenlanders. Not Denmark.
B) It would, to put it mildly, be extremely complicated legally. Is it even possible according to international law to sell Greenland, an autonomous territory? And as such the Greenlanders? It would be the equivalent of selling North Dakota to Canada. There would be quite a few problems!
C) Should the unthinkable happen that DK actually did sell/rent Greenland, we would hardly win a popularity contest worldwide! Leaving a pristine region like Greenland in the hands of an administration, that by all accounts intends (and just as importantly has to!) to finance the purchase by exploiting the natural resources there would lead to an international outcry the like of which has hardly been seen before.
No price USA is willing to pay could remotely compensate for the bad press DK would get!

Another matter is that should President Trump actually come to Denmark and ask to buy Greenland, it would be considered a direct insult!
A) Not just because of the historical and cultural ties to Greenland.
B) But because such an offer would imply that Denmark is incapable of looking after Greenlandic interest. And while some Greenlanders would no doubt agree, by any international standard Greenland is well looked after. Certainly better than say Puerto Rico, as critics would immediately point out.
C) And last but not least, because such an offer has traditionally been backed up by gunboats... And Danish politicians may not say this, but certainly think: "Is this a way to treat an old ally?!? We haven't even been at war at any point in our history!"

So Greenland is not for sale, rent or lease, period!

It would be an entirely different matter if the Greenlanders themselves wished to switch from being under Danish sovereignty to being under US sovereignty. After a referendum and the proper legal procedures of course. That is something Denmark will not prevent. - It would probably mean that Greenland would have to declare itself independent first and then request joining USA in some form.
Whether the Greenlanders are even interested is another matter. But I write this from a purely Danish perspective. Even though I understand that from what is being written in the Greenlandic press, they are not particularly enthusiastic!

There is a comment I have seen a number of times in the foreign comments sections: Why not just take Greenland?
Well, if Greenland was independent that would IMO be a realistic scenario regardless of who is in office in the White House.
But Greenland is a part of the Danish realm...

Now, that is a hypothetical question that I would love to play and certainly follow! (*)

So is President Trump serious? Or is this simply a scenario, that should be taken into consideration, even if it is unlikely ever to come up?
I don't know.
Political commentators here have speculated that this proposal is not directed at Denmark, but at Russia and China.
It's a signal saying that USA is dead serious about Greenland! So keep your hands off!!

(*) Can the US President even order an invasion of a part of a foreign country, where there is no civil unrest, no emergency, no calls for help, hardly any US citizens and which belongs to a NATO ally, without the consent of the Congress?
It would by International Law be an act of war.
It would certainly by militarily possibly, the Greenlanders and the Danish military there would only be able to put up a minimum of resistance. And the US administration could within a day or two present Denmark and the Congress with a faith accompli. - We've got Greenland, what can you do about it?
A most interesting what if, that is of course outside the scope of this thread.

Tarlita 08-16-2019 10:10 AM

Approximately 50,000 natives.
This is all about Rare Earth Mineral mining and Uranium deposits. Greenland has one of the largest deposits of rare earth minerals.
From what I understand after reading the business news, there is a race between Russia, China and the USA to be granted mining leases in Greenland.
Greenland and Denmark potentially can become very rich from mining royalties. The big concern of course is the impact on the environment.
There is no way that anything connected with the mining venture should affect the marine life in that area, as that is their primary food source.
Some mining already exists I believe or exploration ventures are happening at the moment.
So basically what is needed is someone with very good communication and diplomatic skills to proceed in talks with the Danes and Greenlanders.

Is that person Donald Trump?

Sorry Muhler I was typing as you were posting.

Friedrich Karl II 08-16-2019 12:34 PM

Not so big surprise that Trump speaks about purchasing of Greenland. Altough there was similar proposals already on Truman's era soon after WW2.


But now we live different times altough Trump hardly undersand that. There is not way how USA could buy Greenland. Denmark can't do that without will of Greenlanders. And I doubt that they want that. Greenland would be just American colony where mining companies would steal all natural resources and destroy enviro,mnent. Well, unfortunately it not look very good anyway.

carlota 08-16-2019 01:10 PM

well, given the history of US buying land, as indicated above (alaska, virgin islands) it is hardly an unfounded request that of trump. but like mulher said, i highly doubt that greenland will be sold. not a dumb question to raise, given the natural resources it has. i get the impression that every time trump speaks a word he is condenmed, even if there is some truth/sense in what he says. and, yes, there's many things for which he is condenmnable, but he is after all the elected president of the US and of the free world and deserves a bit more respect than he gets.

anyway, coming back on topic, i am excited about this visit and to see pictures in due course. is frederik really organising the state visit this time around, given QM is on holiday?

Al_bina 08-16-2019 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 2246477)
.... [snipped]
So is President Trump serious? Or is this simply a scenario, that should be taken into consideration, even if it is unlikely ever to come up?
I don't know.
Political commentators here have speculated that this proposal is not directed at Denmark, but at Russia and China.
It's a signal saying that USA is dead serious about Greenland! So keep your hands off!!


(*) Can the US President even order an invasion of a part of a foreign country, where there is no civil unrest, no emergency, no calls for help, hardly any US citizens and which belongs to a NATO ally, without the consent of the Congress?
It would by International Law be an act of war.
It would certainly by militarily possibly, the Greenlanders and the Danish military there would only be able to put up a minimum of resistance. And the US administration could within a day or two present Denmark and the Congress with a faith accompli. - We've got Greenland, what can you do about it?
A most interesting what if, that is of course outside the scope of this thread.

Mr Anders Fogh Rasmussen will always justify positive sides of leasing/selling Greenland to USA. The Danish government will find reasons to acquiesce a US request (example, Nord Stream II https://finans.dk/politik/ECE1147476...os/?ctxref=ext).

On a different note... USSR was/Russia is the Arctic super power with most ice-breakers and other military vessels and bases. As usually, China plays a multifaceted game, which is impossible for barbarians to comprehend.

Muhler 08-18-2019 01:39 PM

The financial advisor to President Trump has confirmed to Fox that a purchase of Greenland is an option that is looked into.
https://politiken.dk/indland/art7338...-ikke-til-salg

The advisor, Larry Kudlow, says: "Denmark owns Greenland. Denmark is an ally. Greenland is a strategic place. They have a lot of valuable minerals.
The President, who knows something about buying real-estate, would like to look into it."

The Danish PM, Mette Frederiksen, has for the first time responded directly:
Grønland er ikke til salg. Grønland er ikke dansk. Grønland er grønlandsk. Jeg håber vedholdende, at det ikke er noget, der er alvorligt ment
"Greenland is not for sale. Greenland is not Danish. Greenland belongs to Greenland. I sincerely hope that this is not meant seriously."

- Well. As mentioned in my previous post, the PM has a full Parliament to back her up. Denmark will not and cannot sell 56.000 citizens.

But what if this is serious? What is the US administration does wish to officially inquire about a possible purchase of Greenland by USA during the upcoming state visit?
Well, as mentioned before, it would be considered a huge insult, by a guest no less! And completely rejected.
It would be the equivalent of asking the British government to consider selling Wales. Or the equivalent of the Chinese President flying to Washington to ask to purchase the state of Oregon - and it's citizens... - I cannot emphasize too much that it is in that light this is seen in Denmark and in particular in Greenland.
But what would be the Danish reaction? A total rejection and refusal to discuss this matter further is a certainty.
Would it influence the US-Danish negotiations in regards to US wishes to increase the base at Thule? And the wishes of allowing US planes and ships to use Greenlandic facilities?
That would be the interesting question! That the Thule Base will be expanded is IMO a certainty, that's in Danish/Greenlandic security interests as well. But it would certainly make the task of the US negotiators much more difficult. - It's after all more tricky to negotiate with someone you have just insulted.
The worst possible scenario if that the US administration go public with a wish to purchase Greenland prior to the visit. That could lead to a first: That an allied country about to receive an incoming state visit by the US President might actually cancel that visit.

However, the underlying signal is hard to miss: That the US administration consider Greenland to be so vital, that it is willing to go to such length as to considering purchasing a foreign country, that is a part of a realm of an allied country!

Ista 08-18-2019 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 2246922)
The financial advisor to President Trump has confirmed to Fox that a purchase of Greenland is an option that is looked into.
https://politiken.dk/indland/art7338...-ikke-til-salg

The advisor, Larry Kudlow, says: "Denmark owns Greenland. Denmark is an ally. Greenland is a strategic place. They have a lot of valuable minerals.
The President, who knows something about buying real-estate, would like to look into it."

The Danish PM, Mette Frederiksen, has for the first time responded directly:
Grønland er ikke til salg. Grønland er ikke dansk. Grønland er grønlandsk. Jeg håber vedholdende, at det ikke er noget, der er alvorligt ment
"Greenland is not for sale. Greenland is not Danish. Greenland belongs to Greenland. I sincerely hope that this is not meant seriously."

As an American, this is so embarrassing. I could go on (and on, and on) but I'll stop there.

- Well. As mentioned in my previous post, the PM has a full Parliament to back her up. Denmark will not and cannot sell 56.000 citizens.

But what if this is serious? What is the US administration does wish to officially inquire about a possible purchase of Greenland by USA during the upcoming state visit?
Well, as mentioned before, it would be considered a huge insult, by a guest no less! And completely rejected.
It would be the equivalent of asking the British government to consider selling Wales. Or the equivalent of the Chinese President flying to Washington to ask to purchase the state of Oregon - and it's citizens... - I cannot emphasize too much that it is in that light this is seen in Denmark and in particular in Greenland.
But what would be the Danish reaction? A total rejection and refusal to discuss this matter further is a certainty.
Would it influence the US-Danish negotiations in regards to US wishes to increase the base at Thule? And the wishes of allowing US planes and ships to use Greenlandic facilities?
That would be the interesting question! That the Thule Base will be expanded is IMO a certainty, that's in Danish/Greenlandic security interests as well. But it would certainly make the task of the US negotiators much more difficult. - It's after all more tricky to negotiate with someone you have just insulted.
The worst possible scenario if that the US administration go public with a wish to purchase Greenland prior to the visit. That could lead to a first: That an allied country about to receive an incoming state visit by the US President might actually cancel that visit.

However, the underlying signal is hard to miss: That the US administration consider Greenland to be so vital, that it is willing to go to such length as to considering purchasing a foreign country, that is a part of a realm of an allied country!

As an American, this is all so embarrassing. I could go on (and on, and on...) but that pretty well covers it.

Nordic 08-19-2019 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlota (Post 2246518)
i am excited about this visit and to see pictures in due course

Don't get your hopes up just yet...;) 2 weeks to go but Trump hasn't quite made up his mind yet :ermm:


"- I'm considering going there. I'm not sure I will, but it may be. We are going to go to Poland, and then we may go to Denmark, Trump said."

https://jyllands-posten.dk/politik/E...kommer-maaske/

Osipi 08-19-2019 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 2246922)
However, the underlying signal is hard to miss: That the US administration consider Greenland to be so vital, that it is willing to go to such length as to considering purchasing a foreign country, that is a part of a realm of an allied country!

Greed and dollar signs can push people into thinking of doing things they never would ordinarily think of doing. This, IMO, is what I see behind Trump's thinking he can buy Greenland for all the rare earth minerals. I also believe that it would be a huge mistake to even contemplate asking for a purchase price from either Denmark or Greenland and there's a very good reason why.

Now, I'm not too informed on politics and policy of both Greenland and Denmark but thanks to our own Muhler, his input got me to do a little bit of research. I do honestly hope that Trump and his administration do the little amount of research I did, find out what I did and then scrap the idea of buying Greenland.

First off, Trump is of the opinion that "The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive.". I respect his opinion as his own and there are a *lot* of people out there that don't see global warming as being anything of a problem. But wait.... there's the other side of the coin to look at here.

If any country is feeling the effects of global warming and adapting to it, it is the citizens of Greenland. Its their home that is witnessing more and more of the changes that are occurring. Denmark, if I'm to believe this article, is also making the problem of global warming a priority. As recently as June, 2019, it was reported that "in a deal with other left parties, the Social Democrats agreed to raise the country’s climate targets and place the green transition at the heart of policy."

So we have both Greenland and Denmark on the opposite side of the fence from Trump when it comes to facing the problem of climate change and global warming. It would seem preposterous for either Greenland or Denmark to even consider selling out and allowing the rape of the earth in Greenland and totally deplete resources that may end up being Greenland's life blood for their economic survival as their country keeps changing.

Two articles that helped form my opinion here:

https://www.climatechangenews.com/20...hest-priority/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKCN1P41EC

stellam 08-19-2019 02:00 AM

I heard on CNN news earlier today, according to Trump, Denmark spends $US700m on Greenland every year and Denmark cannot afford that! How the heck does he know that?

Duc_et_Pair 08-19-2019 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stellad (Post 2247001)
I heard on CNN news earlier today, according to Trump, Denmark spends $US700m on Greenland every year and Denmark cannot afford that! How the heck does he know that?


Of course Denmark can afford that. It is one of Europe's wealthiest countries.
It is all so toe-wrangling... Brrrr...

:ermm:

Mbruno 08-19-2019 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2247007)
Of course Denmark can afford that. It is one of Europe's wealthiest countries.
It is all so toe-wrangling... Brrrr...

:ermm:

It is a wealthy country in per capita terms, but in absolute terms it is a relatively small economy as expected for a small country .

Tarlita 08-19-2019 08:32 AM

If rare earth minerals are allowed to be extracted by whichever company no matter which country it belongs to, Denmark and Greenland will become very wealthy indeed via mining royalties.

And I am confident that Very strict rules will be part of any mining contract regards to operations and of course the eventual rehabilitation of the mine site. That is the cleanup and restoration of the mine site once the mine is exhausted.

MARG 08-19-2019 08:48 AM

Unfortunately, in the US we are talking about an administration that wants to build the largest open cast mine in the world in Alaska endangering the previously protected spawning grounds for sockeye salmon.

Duc_et_Pair 08-19-2019 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 2247032)
It is a wealthy country in per capita terms, but in absolute terms it is a relatively small economy as expected for a small country .


Denmark is one of the EU countries with a triple A-rating, the highest degree of creditworthiness, fully able to meet financial commitments and consequently running an almost zero risk of defaulting. I have not the slightest worry about the "financial burden" which Greenland possibly is for Denmark.
:lol:

Muhler 08-19-2019 10:37 AM

Well, as you know by now, President Trump himself said that purchasing Greenland is considered, albeit not as a high priority.
But it is, in diplomatic terms, only a step or two away from an official inquiry.

He has also expressed doubts as to whether he will even go to Denmark.

Okay, that is a big breach of diplomatic protocol. A state visit is the big thing. And you normally only cancel for very good reasons. Not because you suddenly change your mind. That's considered an insult to the host nation, not least because DK has spend quite a lot of money preparing for this visit - and so has the American taxpayers.
The reactions and comments are of course pouring in, but there is a general consensus across the political spectrum, as expressed by senior politicians. The government has said that they expect the US President to come visiting in two weeks, and that's what they work from. The DRF has declined to comment but refer to the PM's office.
But back to the comments. It is widely believed that President Trump casting doubt as to whether he will go to Denmark, is a direct response to the rejection of the Danish (and Greenlandic as well) government to sell Greenland let alone discuss such a sale.
Or alternatively that it is a form of pressure from the US administration for Denmark to reconsider.
- Should the latter be the case, President Trump would have miscalculated. Despite the money spend on the preparations and despite the affront it would be, there would, as things are right now, be a quiet sigh of relief should the visit be cancelled.
It is one thing to reject the President's proposals from a distance, it's an entirely another matter to do it face to face. Things could easily turn ugly.
Normally a visit by the US President, whomever it may be, would be considered a feather in the hat and a pad on the shoulder, but if such a visit leads to serious souring of the relationship between DK and USA, it's better to do without.

But what about the Thule Base, I hear you ask? And the US military interests in Greenland, that the US administration, wished to expand?
Well, at least legally speaking DK holds the upper hand. DK can as a retaliation simply say no to further expansions - for the time being. It will in any case make things a lot more difficult for the US negotiators!
But what if US just go ahead? Simply expand the Thule Base without asking?
That would of course be a serious breach of international law and national sovereignty. - Even if it on a long term basis is an advantage for DK and Greenland in particular.
But that's moving into the realm of pure speculations and that is for now, outside the scope of this thread.

President Trump suggested that the Danish subsidy to Greenland is a huge drain in our finances and we can hardly afford it. (That's certainly a common perception I have seen from comments sections.)
No it isn't.
The Danish economy is booming. We can easily afford to send 700 million $ to Greenland each year. It's a minor irritant for the Danish taxpayers, but hardly something the economists are concerned about.

It is also a common misconception that Denmark will benefit from the raw-materials in Greenland.
No, we won't. Danish companies might get orders and Danes by their thousands might find jobs there, in fact that's likely. But taxes from their income will go to the Greenlandic treasury, not the Danish. And all resources in Greenland belongs to Greenland, not Denmark.
Provided of course it is even practical, let alone profitable, to mine in Greenland.

Osipi is correct, the new Danish government was mainly elected on a pledge to try and make a serious difference in regards to the climate - in Denmark.
What the Greenlanders wish to do with their country is their business.
If they wish to strip-mine the whole island it will be their decision. If they wish to preserve as much of Greenland as possible untouched, it will be their decision.

There have among some of the comments I have seen, been many who have suggested compensating each Greenlanders for the purchase of Greenland. A figure of one million Dollars has come up frequently.
The reaction in Greenland is absolute fury!
It's the same thing as asking the average American to accept selling their state and becoming say Chinese citizens, in return for one million Dollars.
- The Greenlanders are patriots too.

It has also been suggested in many comments that the Greenlanders are poor. That is also a misconception.
Greenland itself is relatively poor. With 56.000 inhabitants and a limited number of businesses, there is a limit how big the tax-revenue is. Hence the subsidy from Denmark.
But average Greenlanders have a pretty decent living standard. Some of them a very good living standard! But prices are of course high, as can be expected on a fairly isolated island.
Of course Greenland sure has their fair share of social problems, but that is hardly due to the economy. Usually that stems from addiction, mainly alcohol.
Unfortunately the Greenlandic government seem somewhat reluctant to really address the issue of social problems, to the point that some Danish politicians have suggested taking over.

Duc_et_Pair 08-19-2019 10:48 AM

:previous:

We have had the same recently. The President was invited for the 75th commemoration of the Battle of the Scheldt and this was announced on the website of the Royal House. This would never ever have been published without signals between the Dutch amd US Foreign Departments, between the Dutch and US Embassies. In the end Mr Trump is not coming...

But this is another step further, this is a State Visit. I can not imagine the President insulting Denmark by outright cancelling it... Even from Trump this would be an affront.

:ohmy:

rob2008 08-19-2019 11:32 AM

Well done everyone. You are reacting as planned to a cynical premeditated tactic. The aim was to get everyone talking about him for no particular reason. The subject is so irrational and absurd, it proves the power of the presidency. And this pointless situation - where he is centre of attention - proves that a reckless, unprincipled holder of the office has been able to so fully achieve the dream of a narcissist. Like a screaming spoiled child, all stop to listen and to placate the little prince. Daisy will not be pleased. A state visit is about partnership and the visitor is already making so much noise so it is all about him alone. And this all happens because it is permitted.

Moonmaiden23 08-19-2019 12:47 PM

*Sorry, Danish friends**:ermm:

carlota 08-19-2019 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nordic (Post 2246998)
Don't get your hopes up just yet...;) 2 weeks to go but Trump hasn't quite made up his mind yet :ermm:


"- I'm considering going there. I'm not sure I will, but it may be. We are going to go to Poland, and then we may go to Denmark, Trump said."

https://jyllands-posten.dk/politik/E...kommer-maaske/

how strange. this is a state visit where he has been invited by an allied head of state. :ermm: surely once you commit to coming you don't back out?

ladongas 08-19-2019 01:50 PM

If Trump does indeed ‘no-show’ for this royal visit, he can probably forget about any further invitations to visit with European monarchs.

Muhler 08-19-2019 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladongas (Post 2247129)
If Trump does indeed ‘no-show’ for this royal visit, he can probably forget about any further invitations to visit with European monarchs.

IMO that will not make a difference. Political necessities outweigh hurt feelings, or more correctly annoyance.
But US representatives can expect snide remarks: He is going to come, right?

It is even likely that DK would again extend an invitation, should President Trump wish to be invited again - but perhaps not a state visit though.

The Danish PM is touring Greenland these days and at the same time the government has declared it's intention of building up the military presence in the Arctic. Nothing new in that, that has slowly been going on for twenty years now.

These last days has been a rude wake-up call for many Greenladers though. A brutal lesson in real politics: When it's about strategic interests they don't matter. So this might actually strengthen the bonds between Denmark and Greenland. We shall see.

The ironic thing is that USA could easily and with a minimum of costs take control of Greenland's economy and as such politics. An investment of ten-fifteen billion Dollars over the next ten-twenty years in Greenland, would put American companies in a domineering position and the Greenlanders would even welcome the investments. - At least initially...
It could be done at a trifle of the cost of "buying" Greenland and the net result would be pretty much the same. - The Chinese tried and got close to succeeding.
I have said it before and I will say it again: There will be no such thing as an independent Greenland. No matter what, Greenland will be dependent of another country, the question is which they prefer.

There are already remarks from Danes in the comments sections basically saying: Well, there you are, Greenlanders. You matter so little, they don't even bother talking to you. So perhaps a little gratitude for our tax-money, we send to you, would be in order!

Duc_et_Pair 08-19-2019 03:19 PM

Ow, is the relationship between Denmark and Greenland a bit frictioned? I would say: "owning" the world's biggest island on such a strategic place only enhances Denmark's intrinsic weight in the world. And for Greenland, having access to the economic giant EU via Denmark, is also a pro. It works both ways.

Muhler 08-19-2019 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2247170)
Ow, is the relationship between Denmark and Greenland a bit frictioned? I would say: "owning" the world's biggest island on such a strategic place only enhances Denmark's intrinsic weight in the world. And for Greenland, having access to the economic giant EU via Denmark, is also a pro. It works both ways.

It does, but for the average taxpayer that doesn't really matter in the day to day life.

As I said in a previous post, we can easily afford to subsidize Greenland, but it's a minor irritant for the Danish taxpayers. And it is hardly something the Danish taxpayers think about more than a few times a year, when watching the news or something like that.

The reason is, and here I interject my personal opinion, that the Greenlanders are pretty spoiled.
They have autonomy as well as seats in the Parliament.
They have full rights to their resources, they have full rights to a free/or heavily subsidized higher education in Denmark and they have free access to advanced medical treatment in Denmark.
There is no conscription for Greenlanders, so it's almost exclusively ethnic Danish soldiers who patrol and uphold Greenlandic territorial sovereignty.
And they have been guaranteed independence when they want it.

- All that is fair enough, in the minds of the vast majority of Danes I'd say. They are after all a part of the realm. And with the exeption of a number of Greenlanders who have ended up as addicts in Denmark, all Greenlanders here are fully integrated and hardly distinguishable from ethnic Danes.

But it's money from the Danish taxpayers who keep Greenland running.
So when the Danish press and politicians point out that there are severe and unaddressed social issues in Greenland, not least involving children and the response is: Mind your own business!
Or when there are warnings from Denmark: Look out, your are being bought by the Chinese! And the response is: Mind your own business!
That is an irritant.

Okay, so while there is no way the Danes will allow USA to buy Greenland. (you simply don't buy people and countries. That is so last millennium.) There is nevertheless a certain glee to be read in some of the comments sections, that I have seen.
And I dare say that should the Greenlanders of their own free will wish to be bought up by US investments or somehow wish to join USA in some way. I will without hesitation claim that the majority of Danes will say: Suit yourself then, bye, bye.

Duc_et_Pair 08-20-2019 05:12 AM

Words fail me....




:ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy:




https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...reenland-tower

Osipi 08-20-2019 07:25 AM

Perhaps if Trump does go through with the state visit to Denmark, as a welcoming gift, Queen Margrethe could give him a wonderful new set of Legos to play with? :hiding:

rob2008 08-20-2019 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osipi (Post 2247318)
Perhaps if Trump does go through with the state visit to Denmark, as a welcoming gift, Queen Margrethe could give him a wonderful new set of Legos to play with? :hiding:

Today's photoshopped image was a child shouting out: "Look at me, look at me!"

wartenberg7 08-20-2019 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudolph (Post 2243560)
Well I’m looking forward to this visit. It’s important NATO allies keep a close relationship. Denmark is a valued member of the alliance.


Trump is not interested in NATO - some say he even wants to destroy it. So he, of all people, is not interested in keeping close NATO relationships at all...

By the way, is Denmark the only scandinavian country he will visit? Normally, when long travelling heads of state from Asia or the US visit europe, they do cover at least 2 countries or take part in a summit and do one state visit.

Muhler 08-20-2019 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wartenberg7 (Post 2247415)
Trump is not interested in NATO - some say he even wants to destroy it. So he, of all people, is not interested in keeping close NATO relationships at all...

By the way, is Denmark the only scandinavian country he will visit? Normally, when long travelling heads of state from Asia or the US visit europe, they do cover at least 2 countries or take part in a summit and do one state visit.

He is going to Poland first.

Moonmaiden23 08-20-2019 02:39 PM

Poland is the only country outside of his MAGA rallies here in the US where he can draw huge, adoring crowds.

Wild horses wouldn't keep him away. :cool:

Muhler 08-20-2019 03:48 PM

It appears there a few specific plans for what is going to happen when/if President Trump comes visiting in only two weeks.
Seemingly there are few if any wishes expressed from the US side as to what they would like to do, and few if any responses to the danish suggestions.

So what is clear is that there will be political talks and a gala dinner, these are a given thing anyway, but apart from that...?

So until anything new in that field surface, let's have a closer look at the President's arguments regarding Greenland.

Let us begin with the public reactions on the street and the workplaces. Surprisingly for me at least, it's hardly the talk of the town. It is mentioned with a few words at lunch or family gatherings, but apart from that the reaction, from my own experience, here in DK is pretty laid back.
Greenland is not for sale, so the whole thing is not taken seriously and as such hardly discussed.
Even on the main news, this comes as a second or third item.
It is of course a different matter in Greenland.

So would the Greenlanders be interested in a closer affiliation with USA? No doubt. But not as a part of USA.
To the point of being closer to USA than Denmark? Not in a foreseeable future IMO. We are talking at least two generations before that would happen, if it ever will.
It seems more likely to me that the Greenlanders will eventually join a kind of Arctic political league together with indigenous peoples from Canada, Alaska and perhaps Russia.

Can DK afford to keep subsidizing Greenland? - That has already been covered and the answer is yes.
Can DK afford to invest heavily in Greenland? - Now, that's a much more tricky question. Dk is already investing in Greenland, in particular the infrastructure and of course also with an increasing military presence there, which is about to be increased even more, with heavier ships and perhaps even fighters as well, according to the new government. That is going to be expensive but will also create jobs in Greenland, both for the locals as well as Danes.
But how about additional investments in regards to mining and businesses?
Well, the military investments are a direct response to the changed security situation in the Arctic and also very much a dear wish by both NATO and USA.
But apart from that, President Trump, does have a point.
DK can certainly afford to invest say 25 billion DKK (about 5 billion US Dollars) in Greenland over the next ten years or so. But it's a difficult one to sell for the Danish politicians. Because the Danes would immediately point out that such an investment is also very much needed in Denmark. We could easily use the money to recruit more health workers or police officers or build another bride between east and west-Denmark. Or simply to give the welfare system a much needed boost after more than a decade of tight budgets. (Which BTW is the reason DK got so lightly through the latest financial crisis.)
So investing heavily in Greenland for the money collected from Danish taxpayers is not something that will get you re-elected if your are a Danish politician!

But how about Danish businesses? Well, they have a better in depth knowledge of Greenland and fewer means to waste, so to speak, than some international companies.
A company like Mærsk, could well afford to invest in building a large modern port in Greenland, but it would be a bad investment. The largest town in Greenland holds 16.000 inhabitants. Way too few for a modern port to pay itself.
But how about fishing and tourism? Is there room for investments there?
Yes and no. - It's not attractive for Danish businesses. The Greenlanders can handle that well on their own, they just need a little Danish help in regards to international promotions and trade - and they get that. The DRF being instrumental in that regard BTW.
As for tourism. Tourists mainly go there, because the land is unspoiled. Who want's to go to Greenland only to stay at a hyper-modern hotel? A Greenland overrun by weekend-tourists flying in from USA by the plane-loads may be counter-productive in the end. - It's an area where investments can be made, the questions is whether there can be too many tourists?

Mining. That's not an area where Danish businesses have much experience and so far mining is not productive in Greenland. It is simply too expensive currently simply to mine anything, not to mention the logistics.
And again, there will be considerable opposition in Greenland against exploiting the resources too much.
The same goes for off-shore drilling. And this is a field where Danish and Norwegian business have considerable experience, but certainly in Denmark off shore drilling is rapidly becoming the energy-source of yesteryear. Currently Denmark export oil and gas from our own shores. But the oil-fields are being emptied and replaced by windmills.
So could Greenland become an exporter of sustainable energy? Wind, sun (they do have 24 hours of daylight in the summers there), wave-energy perhaps even thermal energy? Yes, very much so! But... there is a long way from Greenland to their customers in North America!
So until sustainable energy can be stored efficiently and transported by ship south that is out of the question.

So to sum up: The two biggest obstacles in regards to investments in Greenland is its low population and remoteness.

Pranter 08-20-2019 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wartenberg7 (Post 2247415)
Trump is not interested in NATO - some say he even wants to destroy it. So he, of all people, is not interested in keeping close NATO relationships at all...

By the way, is Denmark the only scandinavian country he will visit? Normally, when long travelling heads of state from Asia or the US visit europe, they do cover at least 2 countries or take part in a summit and do one state visit.


There are many Americans who would support the US leaving (stop supporting) the U.N. NATO would be on that list as well.



LaRae

Tarlita 08-20-2019 07:13 PM

Mining ore would have to be shipped out. That means a substantial port has to be built. Good roads to truck the ore body. You wouldn't use an existing port. Lots of infrastructure has to be built if / when mining companies go full steam ahead.
Mining companies are also looking to extracting uranium from Greenland. They have the go ahead for that from what I've read.
So lots of jobs in building and construction before any ore leaves the country.
I think the big consideration for mining companies before they invest millions/billions is the political climate between China and the USA.
Climate change is a given and the mining companies can adjust to that. But the Political climate is a bit wild west territory for them at the moment.
Deals and agreements don't appear to be worth much these days. Too much renegging going on.
JMO.

soapstar 08-20-2019 08:24 PM

Trump just announced on Twitter that he has cancelled his upcoming meeting with Denmark’s PM because she didn’t want to discuss Greenland.

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1163964473432072192

Mbruno 08-20-2019 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soapstar (Post 2247477)
Trump just announced on Twitter that he has cancelled his upcoming meeting with Denmark’s PM because she didn’t want to discuss Greenland.

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1163964473432072192

Does that mean the state visit is canceled too ?

rob2008 08-20-2019 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 2247478)
Does that mean the state visit is canceled too ?

Every time someone asks a basic, simple question like this, just a few more crucial CCs of oxygen are pumped into his leathery innards.

Moonmaiden23 08-20-2019 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pranter (Post 2247464)
There are many Americans who would support the US leaving (stop supporting) the U.N. NATO would be on that list as well.



LaRae

I often agree with you, but not here. It would be catastrophic for the U.S. to abandon our NATO allies, and ill-advised to leave the UN.

I literally do not know ONE fellow American who feels otherwise.:ermm:

soapstar 08-20-2019 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 2247478)
Does that mean the state visit is canceled too ?

As of now the State visit is still on. He’s only cancelling his meeting with the PM.

Tarlita 08-20-2019 08:41 PM

Is Denmark breathing a sigh of relief.?

Gawin 08-20-2019 08:42 PM

Oh dear, that mean prime minister took his toy away.

Somebody 08-20-2019 08:57 PM

According to NBC News - with a reference to the White House - the entire (state) visit is cancelled ('at this time' - as you never know what happens next I assume).

It would be rather unheard of if he is on a state visit to a country and refuses to meet the PM. Yet, first ordering a state visit and next cancelling that same state visit because you don't get what you want is rather unheard of as well - but well, what else to expect nowadays...

Blog Real 08-20-2019 09:07 PM

Will the visit be canceled? Should the visit really take place, it will be extremely uncomfortable for the Queen and the Danish politicians to be with Trump after all this controversy. Refusing to be with a prime minister from another country just because they don't give in to what he wants is crazy.

Gawin 08-20-2019 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blog Real (Post 2247489)
Will the visit be canceled? Should the visit really take place, it will be extremely uncomfortable for the Queen and the Danish politicians to be with Trump after all this controversy. Refusing to be with a prime minister from another country just because they don't give in to what he wants is crazy.

Welcome to the United States of America.

soapstar 08-20-2019 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somebody (Post 2247487)
According to NBC News - with a reference to the White House - the entire (state) visit is cancelled ('at this time' - as you never know what happens next I assume).

It would be rather unheard of if he is on a state visit to a country and refuses to meet the PM. Yet, first ordering a state visit and next cancelling that same state visit because you don't get what you want is rather unheard of as well - but well, what else to expect nowadays...

Think of all of the hard work and preparations that went into this visit and he’s cancelling just because he didn't get what he wanted. All I can say is wow. How unbelievably rude.

Blog Real 08-20-2019 09:22 PM

Danish website bt.dk says the visit has been canceled!


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