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-   -   Death and Funeral of Grand Duke Jean: April 23 & May 4, 2019 (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f69/death-and-funeral-of-grand-duke-jean-april-23-and-may-4-2019-a-46308.html)

leidi 05-04-2019 07:43 AM

Albert and Paola sitting with the rest of the Luxembourg family, shows how close they were to GD Jean.

Biri 05-04-2019 07:44 AM

Another beautiful song now!
What title it is?

Duc_et_Pair 05-04-2019 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leidi (Post 2217463)
Albert and Paola sitting with the rest of the Luxembourg family, shows how close they were to GD Jean.

Logical. Albert's own sister was Jean's wife.

Biri 05-04-2019 07:54 AM

Another beautiful song.

leidi 05-04-2019 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2217468)
Logical. Albert's own sister was Jean's wife.

Yes, but from all the Belgian RF, the only ones were them.
I remember when Fabiola died, all the Luxembourg family were grouped together with the Belgian relatives.
That's why I find it a bit strange that P&M and the rest of the Belgian RF aren't seated with them.

Duc_et_Pair 05-04-2019 07:56 AM

Great to see the Countess Mountbatten of Burma and Lady Elizabeth Shakerley née Anson.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leidi (Post 2217471)
Yes, but from all the Belgian RF, the only ones were them.
I remember when Fabiola died, all the Luxembourg family were grouped together with the Belgian relatives.
That's why I find it a bit strange that P&M and the rest of the Belgian RF aren't seated with them.

Maybe because Luxembourg family is immense. Some 40+ people. Choices had to be made regarding the seating arrangements, I think.

Marchesina 05-04-2019 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leidi (Post 2217471)
Yes, but from all the Belgian RF, the only ones were them.
I remember when Fabiola died, all the Luxembourg family were grouped together with the Belgian relatives.
That's why I find it a bit strange that P&M and the rest of the Belgian RF aren't seated with them.


I think it is only because the Luxembourg extended family is so big the organizers preferred to put the rest of the family with other authorities. Plus this is a State a funeral, Philippe and Mathilde were in in the first row with other monarchs and the other princes/princess were seated among the other authorities.

Biri 05-04-2019 08:00 AM

Irish Guards again playing, as Luxembourgish soldiers carrying the coffin out.

Marchesina 05-04-2019 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biri (Post 2217476)
Irish Guards again playing, as Luxembourgish soldiers carrying the coffin.

Did the Grand Duke serve among them? Why did they play (movingly btw)?

Mbruno 05-04-2019 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leidi (Post 2217471)
Yes, but from all the Belgian RF, the only ones were them.
I remember when Fabiola died, all the Luxembourg family were grouped together with the Belgian relatives.
That's why I find it a bit strange that P&M and the rest of the Belgian RF aren't seated with them.


King Philippe was seated with the other reigning monarchs.

Biri 05-04-2019 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marchesina (Post 2217477)
Did the Grand Duke serve among them?

Yes, during the WWII.

An Ard Ri 05-04-2019 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marchesina (Post 2217477)
Did the Grand Duke serve among them? Why did they play (movingly btw)?

Yes during WWII he served with the Irish Guards.

The late Grand Duc with the Queen and Queen Mother on St Patrick's Day 1995

https://www.gettyimages.ie/detail/ne...embourg-120538

Mbruno 05-04-2019 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marchesina (Post 2217477)
Did the Grand Duke serve among them? Why did they play (movingly btw)?


He was a Colonel of the Irish Guards, I think.

leidi 05-04-2019 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marchesina (Post 2217475)
I think it is only because the Luxembourg extended family is so big the organizers preferred to put the rest of the family with other authorities. Plus this is a State a funeral, Philippe and Mathilde were in in the first row with other monarchs and the other princes/princess were seated among the other authorities.

And the cathedral seems to be much smaller than Brussels', where they could put the families in opposite rows (vertical to the altar), I remember most of the Luxembourg went there, including people like Imre and his wife.

Biri 05-04-2019 08:14 AM

Who is this man supporting King Juan Carlos?

Marchesina 05-04-2019 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leidi (Post 2217483)
And the cathedral seems to be much smaller than Brussels', where they could put the families in opposite rows (vertical to the altar), I remember most of the Luxembourg went there, including people like Imre and his wife.

There you go.

Duc_et_Pair 05-04-2019 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biri (Post 2217484)
Who is this man supporting King Juan Carlos?

I think an aide from the royal escorte.

Mbruno 05-04-2019 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2217488)
I think an aide from the royal escorte.


I am surprised to see the bad shape of the Emeritus King's leg. I had not noticed it before in other occasions. It must be hard for him.

Biri 05-04-2019 08:19 AM

And another man in the Moroccan male dress except Moulay Rachid, who is he?

Duc_et_Pair 05-04-2019 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biri (Post 2217490)
And another man in the Moroccan male dress except Moulay Rachid, who is he?

All royals are accompagnied by an escorte. We could see one of the King's aides-de-camp and a hofdame escorting Princess Beatrix. We could see an aide-de-camp escorting the Prince of Monaco. We may assume the gentleman in traditional costume was an escort to Prince Moulay Hassan.

Biri 05-04-2019 08:35 AM

And there was another boy except Princes Gabriel and Noah; it was probably 8-year-old Count Leopold of Limburg Stirum, eldest son of Count Rodolphe and Countess Marie Christine, nee Archduchess of Austria.

An Ard Ri 05-04-2019 08:42 AM

Queen Paola looks very dignified in her black lace mantilla.

wartenberg7 05-04-2019 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 2217489)
I am surprised to see the bad shape of the Emeritus King's leg. I had not noticed it before in other occasions. It must be hard for him.


Well, not very surprising as he had these kind of problems since a couple of years by now and, of course, continually aging is not helping either.

Generally I thought, my Goodness, everyone looked so old, many of them still relatively fit a few years ago, even frail...:ermm: Even those I, a short time ago, would have called the "younger generation" of the Royals (apart from the 3 lads present and the Duchess of Brabant), so obviously suddenly aging...! Reminds me how old I myself slowly get.

leidi 05-04-2019 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biri (Post 2217496)
And there was another boy except Princes Gabriel and Noah; it was probably 8-year-old Count Leopold of Limburg Stirum, eldest son of Count Rodolphe and Countess Marie Christine, nee Archduchess of Austria.

The one in shorts?
I think that wasn't very appropiate, boys (no matter how young) should wear trousers for a funeral IMHO :ermm:

tommy100 05-04-2019 08:45 AM

I missed parts of it but caught the foreign royals leaving at the end so I assumed it was over but having just glanced back on a live stream it seems the Grand Ducal family are just leaving now, did they attend another smaller service or ceremony after the main one?

I thought (as ever) Prince Guillaume and Princess Sibylla were very graceful and polite in the way they ensured they were either side of the elder Queen Paola and king Albert II of Belgium when they got to the steps to help them down.

Mbruno 05-04-2019 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommy100 (Post 2217504)
I missed parts of it but caught the foreign royals leaving at the end so I assumed it was over but having just glanced back on a live stream it seems the Grand Ducal family are just leaving now, did they attend another smaller service or ceremony after the main one?

I thought (as ever) Prince Guillaume and Princess Sibylla were very graceful and polite in the way they ensured they were either side of the elder Queen Paola and king Albert II of Belgium when they got to the steps to help them down.




I believe they were replaying the Grand Ducal Family's exit from the cathedral. They were obviously the first to leave.



I don't think there was a separate ceremony as the commending of the body was already done at the end of the mass, but I may be wrong.

Duc_et_Pair 05-04-2019 09:02 AM

There was the interment in the crypt, for family only.

Mbruno 05-04-2019 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2217526)
There was the interment in the crypt, for family only.


Yes, but was it broadcast ? Maybe what Tommy referred to was the family leaving the interment then. I didn't see it.

Hans-Rickard 05-04-2019 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marchesina (Post 2217477)
Did the Grand Duke serve among them? Why did they play (movingly btw)?

Grand Duke Jean trained for and served with the Irish Guards during World War 2. He was also their Honorary Colonel between 1984-2000.
His grandson Prince Sébastien is currently serving with the Irish Guards so the Luxembourg Royal Family have close ties with them.

"Highland Cathedral" was played when the coffin was carried out.

LadyFinn 05-04-2019 09:19 AM

Article at the website of the swedish royal court, also about the Seraphim ringing done today at 12.00-13.00.
Kungen vid begravning i Luxemburg - Sveriges Kungahus
Translation

Blog Real 05-04-2019 09:45 AM

It was a beautiful and emotional ceremony. The entire Grand Duchy Family and members of almost every royal family in Europe were present. Now the Grand Duke Jean can rest in peace.

Valerie Rose 05-04-2019 09:52 AM

A very beautiful, solemn and moving service; I'm so grateful I was able to watch it.

iceflower 05-04-2019 10:46 AM

.

Here's another gallery and an article from today:


** ppe gallery **


** dm article: Grand goodbye: Princess Anne joins royalty from across the world for funeral of Duke of Luxembourg as nation mourns for WWII hero..**

Muhler 05-04-2019 11:49 AM

A photo of QMII at the funeral: https://www.billedbladet.dk/kongelig...-af-luxembourg

LadyFinn 05-04-2019 12:14 PM

At Instagram of swedish royal court are short videos of Seraphim ringing and grand duke Jean's Coat of arms of the knight of the Order of the Seraphim taken from the Royal Palace to Riddarholm Church.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BxCplDVhupn/

Queen Silvia has got cold and couldn't attend.
- It's nothing serious but she felt so cold that she didn't want to risk infecting others. She is home and cures herself at Drottningholm, says Margareta Thorgren.
Thorgren says that it was for the other guests' sake Silvia chose not to go, but that the queen is very sad that she was not allowed to say goodbye to her friend.
- By the respect of others, the Queen chose to stay home. It's sad of course.
Margareta Thorgren also says that there are strong friendships between the two royal families and that the grand duke's death is a grief for the king who shared many interests with him.
- They had many common interests, including the scouts. They had several interests that tied them together.
The king himself has described the Grand Duke as a man he will remember with warmth.
- Grand Duke Jean of Luxembourg was highly respected by me and my family. He was a faithful and devoted scout and it was a pleasure to share this interest with him. I will remember a very nice and friendly man, said the King in a comment to Svensk Damtidning.
Drottning Silvia missar Jean av Luxemburgs begravning

Duc_et_Pair 05-04-2019 12:30 PM

Luxarazzi: Who Will Attend: The Official Guest List for the Funeral of Grand Duke Jean

Why are Greece, Romania and Bulgaria listed as former reigning Houses, but are Portugal, France, etc. listed as heads of families?

I understand that the last kings of Greece and Bulgaria are still amongst us, but that does not count for the last King of Romania.

I did miss any representative from Italy. Which is a bit remarkable as the last King and Queen of Italy were uncle and aunt to the late Grand-Duchess Joséphine-Charlotte

An Ard Ri 05-04-2019 12:33 PM

What a Solemn and beautiful Funeral Mass for the late Grand Duke,the turn out from the various royal houses was testament of how greatly he was regarded.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmPs8nkz05k

eya 05-04-2019 01:34 PM

After the funeral of Grand Duke Jean there was reception at the Grand Ducal Palace

https://www.lessentiel.lu/fr/luxembou...alais-11420407


Duke and Duchess of Castro with Grand Duke Henri and the Prince Serge and Princess Eleonore of Serbia

https://www.instagram.com/p/BxDCpS8FzSZ/

Together in Luxemburg for the funeral: A Family picture with Bourbon, Napoleon, Habsburg, Savoy, Serbia

https://www.instagram.com/p/BxB9eYxFqI2/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BxB293FAcbg/

Countessmeout 05-04-2019 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marchesina (Post 2217477)
Did the Grand Duke serve among them? Why did they play (movingly btw)?

Jean joined the British army as a volunteer in the Irish guards, where after Sandhurst he was commissioned as a lieutenant and later captain in 1944. He took part in both the liberation of Brussels, and later of Luxembourg. He relinquished his commission in 1947, but in 1984 he was named colonel. He often road behind Elizabeth during Trooping.

Lovely touch seeing the boy scouts involved as well. Jean was named Chief scout back in 1945. He was very actively involved over the decades, even in his failing health. He was described as down to earth, when he was with the scouts he was simply chief scout, not the GD. He used to attend jamborees.

An Ard Ri 05-04-2019 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eya (Post 2217629)
Together in Luxemburg for the funeral: A Family picture with Bourbon, Napoleon, Habsburg, Savoy, Serbia

https://www.instagram.com/p/BxB9eYxFqI2/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BxB293FAcbg/

Might be just me but I find it a bit tacky having such photos taken only hours after the funeral of the Grand Duke.

Al_bina 05-04-2019 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri (Post 2217643)
Might be just me but I find it a bit tacky having such photos taken only hours after the funeral of the Grand Duke.

I fully agree with you. The photos in question are awkward.

It is most unfortunate that Emperor Naruhito or the IHA decided not to send anyone to represent the family at the funeral.

Mbruno 05-04-2019 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2217600)
Luxarazzi: Who Will Attend: The Official Guest List for the Funeral of Grand Duke Jean

Why are Greece, Romania and Bulgaria listed as former reigning Houses, but are Portugal, France, etc. listed as heads of families?

I don’t know about Romania , but , in the case of Greece and Bulgaria, the last reigning monarch is still alive, hence the difference.

Frelinghighness 05-04-2019 03:01 PM

Why was the grand duchess mt hatless?

Somebody 05-04-2019 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri (Post 2217643)
Might be just me but I find it a bit tacky having such photos taken only hours after the funeral of the Grand Duke.

It was posted 11/12 hours ago (depending on the account); so it seems to have been taken yesterday evening. Taking a picture like this is one thing, sharing it on social media something else.

JR76 05-04-2019 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somebody (Post 2217658)
It was posted 11/12 hours ago (depending on the account); so it seems to have been taken yesterday evening. Taking a picture like this is one thing, sharing it on social media something else.

It was taken yesterday during a dinner. There's also a clip in Prince Charles Instagram story

An Ard Ri 05-04-2019 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somebody (Post 2217658)
It was posted 11/12 hours ago (depending on the account); so it seems to have been taken yesterday evening. Taking a picture like this is one thing, sharing it on social media something else.

That would make more sense than directly afterwards ,perhaps who ever posted it could have waited a few days before posting it out of respect.

Marengo 05-04-2019 03:26 PM

I just watched the funeral (thanks for the video An Ard Ri). An nice selection of music and an excellent choir, as was the case for the wedding of the HGD.

A dignified and fitting farewel for the Grand Duke, who was much loved and who led a rich and long life.

Nice that they allowed photos to be made of the reception. It seems that the prince of Monaco was showing the Queen of Denmark something on his phone.

O-H Anglophile 05-04-2019 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri (Post 2217643)
Might be just me but I find it a bit tacky having such photos taken only hours after the funeral of the Grand Duke.

Funerals are often one of the few occasions all or mostly all members of a family gather at the same time. They took advantage of the opportunity.
Our large and scattered family has done this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al_bina (Post 2217654)
I fully agree with you. The photos in question are awkward.

It is most unfortunate that Emperor Naruhito or the IHA decided not to send anyone to represent the family at the funeral.

They had another event they were committed to attending at home:whistling:

Rudolph 05-04-2019 03:38 PM

Very nice tributes from the Irish Guards. In addition to the pipers, the gun carriage on which the coffin was carried was a gift from the IG.

suztav 05-04-2019 03:50 PM

The timing of posting the pictures is questionable. However, many extended family members usually see each other at only funerals or weddings. My Aunt died last year and we took group pictures --- only because it's the rare occasion when you get so many family members in one room together.

Lee-Z 05-04-2019 03:59 PM

Agree, i recognize this too from my (quite large) family, and especially when the deceased has lived to a grand old age..

crm2317 05-04-2019 04:02 PM

Gabriel and Noah did very well today guided by their father. I’m sure their parents are very proud.

Hans-Rickard 05-04-2019 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al_bina (Post 2217654)
I fully agree with you. The photos in question are awkward.

It is most unfortunate that Emperor Naruhito or the IHA decided not to send anyone to represent the family at the funeral.

I don't think the photos are awkward but posting them on social media shortly before or shortly after you have attended a funeral is something i would not do. I would have waited a day or 2 to post happy pictures to show respect to the closest.

The Japanese Imperial Family had the public greeting today and probably ordered everyone to remain in Tokyo. But if they would allow the married former Princess'es to continue to represent the IHA, upon request, they would certainly have been able to send someone. Like the sister of the current Emperor for example.

Duc_et_Pair 05-04-2019 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frelinghighness (Post 2217657)
Why was the grand duchess mt hatless?

The hostess does not wear a hat in her house. She removed her hat. The other ladies kept it on for the little intermezzo before leaving Luxembourg.

Nico 05-04-2019 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2217704)
The hostess does not wear a hat in her house. She removed her hat. The other ladies kept it on for the little intermezzo before leaving Luxembourg.

The Grand Duchess was hatless during the service in the cathedral. I noticed that as well, as she was clearly the only one.

vkrish 05-04-2019 07:02 PM

Can someone please tell me who are the last and gentleman standing next to the Prince of Monaco in the funeral? They were at the corner and not covered well by cameras from the front..

Ok I got it. They are the hereditary prince and princess of Lichtenstein

Moonmaiden23 05-04-2019 09:43 PM

Very, very impressive. ..as Marengo pointed out the choir was simply sublime. During the Communion of the Mass
they sang the very beautiful Ave Verum Corpus.
The same Mozart composition was sung at the rites for the Count of Paris a couple of months ago. I was also delighted to hear Abide With Me sung in English.

I noticed the Duke of Anjou smirking and rolling his eyes at something during the Eucharist?:ermm:

Oh well. Magnificent farewell to a great man.

JR76 05-04-2019 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 (Post 2217742)
I noticed the Duke of Anjou smirking and rolling his eyes at something during the Eucharist?:ermm:

Well Prince Charles Lobkowitz sitting next to him never shut up during the whole ceremony so I guess it was a reaction to that.
Don't we all have that one relative who can never keep their mouth shut even at funerals [emoji23]

Moonmaiden23 05-04-2019 09:56 PM

:previous: Welll....I certainly do....:lol:

Somebody 05-04-2019 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR76 (Post 2217744)
Well Prince Charles Lobkowitz sitting next to him never shut up during the whole ceremony so I guess it was a reaction to that.
Don't we all have that one relative who can never keep their mouth shut even at funerals [emoji23]

And right in front of Charles his cousin Carlos was seated. I wonder when they last met each other as they are on opposite sides in the Bourbon Parma family rift with Charles' mother Maria Francisca (according to the guest list also present) siding with her youngest brother Sixtus and the other siblings siding with Carlos (and previously his father Carlos Hugo).

JR76 05-04-2019 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somebody (Post 2217748)
And right in front of Charles his cousin Carlos was seated. I wonder when they last met each other as they are on opposite sides in the Bourbon Parma family rift with Charles' mother Maria Francisca (according to the guest list also present) siding with her youngest brother Sixtus and the other siblings siding with Carlos (and previously his father Carlos Hugo).

Aha! I knew recognised one of the ladies from somewhere! It his mum!
I wonder when the cousins did meet. Since Charles isn't shy at all about documenting his life on Instagram I'm sure we'd know if he met any of his Dutch cousins.

Duc_et_Pair 05-05-2019 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somebody (Post 2217748)
And right in front of Charles his cousin Carlos was seated. I wonder when they last met each other as they are on opposite sides in the Bourbon Parma family rift with Charles' mother Maria Francisca (according to the guest list also present) siding with her youngest brother Sixtus and the other siblings siding with Carlos (and previously his father Carlos Hugo).

I barely recognized the Duke of Parma. He has swollen in appearance. I hope his health is okay, that it is because of (too) good appetite and not because of medication or so. It would be good when this ridiculous "carlist feud" is ended for once and for all. Let this gathering of aunt Marie-Françoise de Lobkowicz-de Bourbon de Parme and nephew Carlos be a start. That would certainly be in the spirit of the late Grand-Duke Jean who must have had is own thoughts on the vaudeville in his paternal House.

Stefan 05-05-2019 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR76 (Post 2217758)
I wonder when the cousins did meet. S


Perhaps also in Luxembourg as all of them who attended the funeral also attended the Wedding there in 2012.

Dalriada 05-05-2019 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2217704)
The hostess does not wear a hat in her house. She removed her hat. The other ladies kept it on for the little intermezzo before leaving Luxembourg.



But this happens to be God’s house while in the cathedral on a very different occasion which is not about the grand duchess. Even doña Sofia who doesn’t normally wear a hat or mantilla to mass covered her head in respect.

wartenberg7 05-05-2019 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri (Post 2217643)
Might be just me but I find it a bit tacky having such photos taken only hours after the funeral of the Grand Duke.


If a member of the luxemb. grand ducal family would have posted a photo like this, may be. But these people are so distantly related or familiar (are they "related" at all?!) to the deceased one or his family, I think there is nothing wrong with it. I mean, how often have they really met GD Jean....?

wartenberg7 05-05-2019 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2217704)
The hostess does not wear a hat in her house. She removed her hat. The other ladies kept it on for the little intermezzo before leaving Luxembourg.

There was nothing she could remove as she didn´t wear a hat all day long!

I do miss these royal state funerals when ladies wore long black dresses, veils and their orders, too, last being watched at King Olavs funeral back in 1991!:ermm::sad:

Duc_et_Pair 05-05-2019 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wartenberg7 (Post 2217809)
There was nothing she could remove as she didn´t wear a hat all day long!

I do miss these royal state funerals when ladies wore long black dresses, veils and their orders, too, last being watched at King Olavs funeral back in 1991!:ermm::sad:

That is really too 19th C. It would be completely ridiculous in 2019 to have extremely veiled ladies with invisible faces at a royal funeral. And why have the ladies to cover theirs and the gentlemen not? MeToo peeping here.

I thought the Grand-Duchess wore a little hat but I see I swapped her for another one. Yes strange indeed, like Màxima, Maria Teresa comes from a country where ladies use to cover the head when attending Mass. Mathilde has the same habit.

Stefan 05-05-2019 06:01 AM

I was in Luxembourg the last 2 days. I arrived short after noon on Friday. Then i first went to to Paleis to pay my last Respect to the late Grand Duke. When i was standing in the netrane gate Hereditary Grand Duke Guillaume came back from the CFeremony in the Chamber and wento into the Paleis. Later we had to wait a little bit in the little backcourt of the Paleis and then the Hereditary Grand Duke came out and drove himself away. On the nest day i was early at the Cathedral to secure a good spot. There i also meet a few other Royal Watchers. After all the guests had arrived we ran to the other entrance and where there just in time to see the Funeral cortege arriving and enter the Church. Then it was waiting till the Service was over and to see the guests leaving. I also managed to get a few pics when the coffin was carried to the Crypt.. After all the guests had left i had a little dinner before going to the Paleis to see the guestzs leaving. Some of them drove out in Cars and some went in their Cars before the Palace. After all had left in the front i had a lock on the backside where we also could see some guests leaing. But at some point i had to leav as i was travelling home.
It was an very interesting, impressive but exhausting day.

Duc_et_Pair 05-05-2019 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 2217821)
I was in Luxembourg the last 2 days. I arrived short after noon on Friday. Then i first went to to Paleis to pay my last Respect to the late Grand Duke. When i was standing in the netrane gate Hereditary Grand Duke Guillaume came back from the CFeremony in the Chamber and wento into the Paleis. Later we had to wait a little bit in the little backcourt of the Paleis and then the Hereditary Grand Duke came out and drove himself away. On the nest day i was early at the Cathedral to secure a good spot. There i also meet a few other Royal Watchers. After all the guests had arrived we ran to the other entrance and where there just in time to see the Funeral cortege arriving and enter the Church. Then it was waiting till the Service was over and to see the guests leaving. I also managed to get a few pics when the coffin was carried to the Crypt.. After all the guests had left i had a little dinner before going to the Paleis to see the guestzs leaving. Some of them drove out in Cars and some went in their Cars before the Palace. After all had left in the front i had a lock on the backside where we also could see some guests leaing. But at some point i had to leav as i was travelling home.
It was an very interesting, impressive but exhausting day.

Thanks for the first hand account. Was it all well-organized as it looked like in media.
To be fair I was a bit surprised by the chapelle ardente which looked like a garderobe for visitors (due to the long LED armature through the room). What kind of room was the Chapelle? It did not look one of the salons?

Mbruno 05-05-2019 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2217819)
That is really too 19th C. It would be completely ridiculous in 2019 to have extremely veiled ladies with invisible faces at a royal funeral. And why have the ladies to cover theirs and the gentlemen not? MeToo peeping here.


They did it in Denmark for the funerals of King Frederik IX and Queen Ingrid, but not for the private funeral of Prince Henrik, which was not a state funeral of course. It is unclear if the tradition has been changed or not.

Stefan 05-05-2019 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2217823)
Thanks for the first hand account. Was it all well-organized as it looked like in media.
To be fair I was a bit surprised by the chapelle ardente which looked like a garderobe for visitors (due to the long LED armature through the room). What kind of room was the Chapelle? It did not look one of the salons?


Yes everything was very well organizued.

The Caheplle ardente was when one ggoes into the Paleis through the Blue door on the right side I think the official rooms are on the opposisde Side. (because terhe the herediary Grand Duke went in). The room was quiet big and was nice decorated with some flowers but there of course also barrieres there.

rominet09 05-05-2019 07:22 AM

Thank you for all these infos

Hans-Rickard 05-05-2019 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2217819)
That is really too 19th C. It would be completely ridiculous in 2019 to have extremely veiled ladies with invisible faces at a royal funeral. And why have the ladies to cover theirs and the gentlemen not? MeToo peeping here.

Yes it's really a rest from a time gone. The last time it happened here in Sweden was for the funeral of Prince Bertil in 1997. And not all women covered their face btw... And it wasn't done at all for the funeral of his wife Princess Lilian in 2013.

Even the UK has modernised that. No one wore a veil for the funeral of The Queen Mother in 2002.

Tears or a sad look are just natural for both men and women at funerals.

wyevale 05-05-2019 08:11 AM

Very beautifully done, and a fitting tribute [and turnout] for so admirable man, as the late Grand Duke..

wartenberg7 05-05-2019 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2217819)
That is really too 19th C. It would be completely ridiculous in 2019 to have extremely veiled ladies with invisible faces at a royal funeral. And why have the ladies to cover theirs and the gentlemen not? MeToo peeping here.

I thought the Grand-Duchess wore a little hat but I see I swapped her for another one. Yes strange indeed, like Màxima, Maria Teresa comes from a country where ladies use to cover the head when attending Mass. Mathilde has the same habit.

What has MeToo to do with covering once face because you suffered a loss and want to be, virtually, to be with "yourself"? Why would a mourning veil to be sexist...?! I think you got things mixed up here a bit, aren´t you?
Why then continue wearing veils at a wedding although everybody knows hardly any bride these days is a virgin...
Duc, veils were worn by WOMEN, that´s because we have a tradition for women to wear such an item; MEN never wore ones in human history so there is no tradition for male to do so. That is not sexist, that´s just a fact...


This is about royal protocol and etiquette. Royal ladies wore veils up to the 1990s (yes, also at Queen Ingrids funeral - at least by her daughters), a state funeral without attending ladies being veiled would have been considered pretty unthinkable - and this was until the end of the 20th century, not the 19th...

Wearing no hats has nothing to do with what country you come from as catholic, late Queen Fabiola obviously hated hats and didn´t wear one, even when attending mass, when it was not absolutely necessary. The spanish Queens hardly ever wear a hat, in or outside a church while Queen Maxima seems to wear hats all day long - obviously she, like her current belgian counterpart, seem to feel it is absolutely vital for a Queen to wear a hat even in 2019.
This does not answer, why the GDess didn´t even wear a hat for a full state funeral of her late father-in-law, former head of state, when she otherwise has no problems to do so (state visits etc.)...?!

Duc_et_Pair 05-05-2019 09:56 AM

:previous:

My take is that the Grand-Duchess saw herself as the hostess. The cortège left the palais grand-ducal and that is her residence. I have no other logic reason. The Grand-Duchess uses to wear hats like Mathilde or Máxima. I thought she wore a little pillbox, but that was her sister-in-law Marie-Astrid, sitting next to her.

It did not disturb me, the Grand-Duchess looked very nicely coiffed. We can not say that about hatless Máxima.

Moonmaiden23 05-05-2019 10:00 AM

The late Catholic Queen Fabiola didn't wear hats to Mass, true...but up until the reforms of Vatican II she always without fail had her head covered with a beautiful mantilla at Mass and any other religious ceremony.

I've no idea what happened with Maria Teresa. She looked drawn, tired and sad. Perhaps she was so distracted she simply forgot her head covering.:sad:

Duc_et_Pair 05-05-2019 10:14 AM

Doña Fabiola still wore veils to Mass, but indeed in no logic order.

Picture: https://images0.persgroep.net/rcs/Gi...b2&quality=0.8

Picture: https://images-mds.staticskynet.be/Ne...30054910CV.jpg

Moonmaiden23 05-05-2019 10:22 AM

Thank you Duc...come to think of it I believe she also wore a hat to the funeral of her father-in-law Leopold III in 1983....

Rudolph 05-05-2019 11:51 AM

Emotional day yesterday as a #legendary Irish Guardsman was laid to rest at Cathedral Notre-Dame of Luxembourg.

The State funeral for Grand Duke Jean of Luxembourg was held to #remember and #celebrate his astonishing reign and contributions to the people of Luxembourg

Via Irish Guards Twitter

https://twitter.com/irish_guards/sta...621614592?s=20

Moonmaiden23 05-05-2019 12:57 PM

Out of curiosity what happens to the late Grand Duke Jean's Garter banner now that it has been "retired" from St. George's Chapel, as well as his Order of the Seraphim from Sweden?

Were the Orders entombed with HRH, or simply given to the Grand Ducal family?

Iain 05-05-2019 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri (Post 2217500)
Queen Paola looks very dignified in her black lace mantilla.

Yes she does. The Grand Duchess should have worn one.

Iain 05-05-2019 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frelinghighness (Post 2217657)
Why was the grand duchess mt hatless?

I wondered that too.

Iain 05-05-2019 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2217704)
The hostess does not wear a hat in her house. She removed her hat. The other ladies kept it on for the little intermezzo before leaving Luxembourg.


The palace is her house not the Cathedral.

Duc_et_Pair 05-05-2019 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain (Post 2217956)
The palace is her house not the Cathedral.

I guess in all the hullabaloo and the stress the Grand-Duchess simply forgot to put a hat on, when she armed her husband and left the palais to join the funeral procession. We are all human.

Iain 05-05-2019 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 (Post 2217880)
The late Catholic Queen Fabiola didn't wear hats to Mass, true...but up until the reforms of Vatican II she always without fail had her head covered with a beautiful mantilla at Mass and any other religious ceremony.

I've no idea what happened with Maria Teresa. She looked drawn, tired and sad. Perhaps she was so distracted she simply forgot her head covering.:sad:

A friend told me that just last week her parish bulletin carried an item stating that it is still Church law that a man must have his head uncovered and woman must have her head covered in church. It said that this rule was never changed at Vatican II and as it is Biblical teaching it never can be changed.

Iain 05-05-2019 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2217958)
I guess in all the hullabaloo and the stress the Grand-Duchess simply forgot to put a hat on, when she armed her husband and left the palais to join the funeral procession. We are all human.

She certainly looked very upset.

Stefan 05-05-2019 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2217879)
:previous:

My take is that the Grand-Duchess saw herself as the hostess. The cortège left the palais grand-ducal and that is her residence. I have no other logic reason. The Grand-Duchess uses to wear hats like Mathilde or Máxima. I thought she wore a little pillbox, but that was her sister-in-law Marie-Astrid, sitting next to her.

It did not disturb me, the Grand-Duchess looked very nicely coiffed. We can not say that about hatless Máxima.


For the fuenral of her moither.in.-law she wore a hat and the the cortege also left from the Grand Ducal Paleis.

Biri 05-05-2019 02:24 PM

Maybe she was present at her father-in-law's passing.

Moonmaiden23 05-05-2019 02:36 PM

Hmm....eternal haggling over poor Maria Teresa's criminal neglect to wear a head covering to her father-in-law's funeral Rites...but not one response to my inquiry about his late Royal Highness's Orders?

For goodness sake. ..the Grand Duchess is normally the most well-mannered and correct of Royal consorts. Perhaps in the high emotion and stress of the day she simply forgot her hat.

Worst case scenario is that she committed a rare faux -pas. Are her family aggrieved? Are the citizens and press of the Grand Duchy grumbling?

I'll just get off my rear and go to Google for an answer to my question. I probably should have done so anyway.:ermm:

tommy100 05-05-2019 03:00 PM

No one knows and likely we will never know why MT did not wear a hat. She and the Grand Ducal family are highly religious and attend plenty of church services so she won't have purposefully done something to offend the church. In grief people sometimes do odd/out of character things if this is the worst then so be it.

I have always believed the regalia for the order of the Garter are returned to the current UK Sovereign upon a person's death.

The banner - I'm not sure I would guess either kept by the order in some archive or other place or given to the family.

Update - wikipedia (not always the best) says that for the Order of the Garter
"On the death of a member, the Lesser George and breast star are returned personally to the Sovereign by the former member's nearest male relative, and the other insignia to the Central Chancery of the Orders of Knighthood, save the riband, mantle and hat." There are also pictures of deceased Knights banners in locations all over so I would think this suggests the banner is given to the family.

So no that order won't have been buried with him, I imagine similar procedures are in place for other forms of regalia especially when you bear in mind these items (the collars especially) can be worth lots and/or be hundreds of years old.

Moonmaiden23 05-05-2019 03:06 PM

:previous: A hundred thank you's dear tommy100!;)

Somebody 05-05-2019 04:30 PM

In the Netherlands any decorations received as part of membership of an order are a loan and need to be returned to the Chancellary upon the death of the holder. I would assume that is the most common practice.

So, in this case I would assume that only member specific items might be given to the family, anything else would be returned for reuse.

JR76 05-05-2019 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans-Rickard (Post 2217851)
Yes it's really a rest from a time gone. The last time it happened here in Sweden was for the funeral of Prince Bertil in 1997. And not all women covered their face btw... And it wasn't done at all for the funeral of his wife Princess Lilian in 2013.

Even the UK has modernised that. No one wore a veil for the funeral of The Queen Mother in 2002.

Tears or a sad look are just natural for both men and women at funerals.

The last time the old mourning costume was used in Sweden was at the funeral of King Gustav V. Already at the funerals of Queen Louise, Princess Sibylla and King Gustav VI Adolf the veils had been shortened to shoulder length and the dresses to knees length. Except the short veil and the white pointed collars used by The Queen and Crown Princess Victoria nothing remained of the old mourning costume at the funeral of Prince Bertil.

I remember the Swedish TV commentator mentioning at the funeral of King Baudoin of the Belgians that Queen Fabiola had made her wish known for the guests to not wear an old style mourning garb and for the ladies to not cover their faces.

Another thing worth mentioning is that a long black dress and a hat with veil was used by ladies from most social classes in many places in Europe. My grandmother told me only today that the last time she saw someone in full mourning as she called it in our quiet large Swedish town was in the early eighties.

loonytick 05-05-2019 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 (Post 2217939)
Out of curiosity what happens to the late Grand Duke Jean's Garter banner now that it has been "retired" from St. George's Chapel, as well as his Order of the Seraphim from Sweden?

Were the Orders entombed with HRH, or simply given to the Grand Ducal family?

If I understood correctly, I think it was said upthread that the Order of Seraphim plaque/shield is moved to a particular church after its “owner’s” death. I haven’t seen anything about the medal itself, though.

I’d be surprised if he were buried with any medals, though. For one thing, I’d think most royal archivists would lobby hard for them to be kept. For another, they specifically made a point of displaying his military and scouting medals during the service, after the coffin had been closed at the palace. If those weren’t interred with him, I doubt others of importance were.

JR76 05-05-2019 04:52 PM

According to the Royal website Kungahuset.se all insignia belonging to one of the Swedish Royal Orders should be returned upon the death of the knight.
The website even includes instructions on how it should be returned.

Kingen 05-05-2019 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 (Post 2217939)
Out of curiosity what happens to the late Grand Duke Jean's Garter banner now that it has been "retired" from St. George's Chapel, as well as his Order of the Seraphim from Sweden?

Were the Orders entombed with HRH, or simply given to the Grand Ducal family?

The stall plate of Grand Duke Jean's Order of the Seraphim was placed on one the walls in Riddarholmen Church in Stockholm on the occasion of the funeral, as the custom of the order is. The insignia of the orders will most likely be returned to the Grand Masters of the Orders, as they "only" are a life-time loan.

Countessmeout 05-05-2019 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 (Post 2217939)
Out of curiosity what happens to the late Grand Duke Jean's Garter banner now that it has been "retired" from St. George's Chapel, as well as his Order of the Seraphim from Sweden?

Were the Orders entombed with HRH, or simply given to the Grand Ducal family?

I am not sure of the banner, the star and lesser George are returned to the queen by the nearest male family member. Other insignia, outside the mantle and hat, are returned to the central chancery.

Though it doesn't seem to always be the nearest male. When Gerald Grovesnor died, it was his widow who returned the insignia to the queen. I'd expect Henri will present it to the queen in short period.

An Ard Ri 05-05-2019 05:32 PM

Here's another video of the Funeral Procession before it entered the Cathedral.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8KPLJhLdq8

irish_royalist 05-06-2019 05:53 AM

Was that Lady Elizabeth Anson who accompanied the Princess Royal into the funeral service? She seemed rather more frail than I remember.
Any ideas why she would have been there?


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