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Yeine 04-20-2019 01:14 PM

Royal Women with Illegitimate Children
 
I'm interested in instances of royal-born women (who aren't Grimaldis) having children out of wedlock. I can think of only 3:

Princess Thyra of Denmark: had a daughter, Maria (b. 1871) by Vilhelm Frimann Marcher

Empress Marie-Louise of France: had 2 children, Albertine (b. 1817) & William Albert (b. 1819) by Count Adam Albert von Neipperg. Both born while she was still married to Napoleon I.

Empress Catherine II of Russia: had a son, Aleksey Grigorievich Bobrinsky (b. 1762) by Count Grigory Orlov.

Any contributions would be greatly appreciated.

Countessmeout 04-20-2019 01:30 PM

Caroline Mathilda, a sister of George III, was the wife of Christian VII of Denmark. She had an affair with Johann Struensee, a doctor. Johann was later executed for the affair, and Caroline was imprisoned. Though recognized by Christian VII as his child, it is common thought that Louise Auguste was actually the daughter of Johann.

Denville 04-20-2019 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countessmeout (Post 2212788)
Caroline Mathilda, a sister of George III, was the wife of Christian VII of Denmark. She had an affair with Johann Struensee, a doctor. Johann was later executed for the affair, and Caroline was imprisoned. Though recognized by Christian VII as his child, it is common thought that Louise Auguste was actually the daughter of Johann.

There are not going to be many.. (Im a little amused at the "apart from the Grimaldis). Caro Matilda's daughter probably was by her lover but she was accepted as a Princess ….

Yeine 04-20-2019 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countessmeout (Post 2212788)
Caroline Mathilda, a sister of George III, was the wife of Christian VII of Denmark. She had an affair with Johann Struensee, a doctor. Johann was later executed for the affair, and Caroline was imprisoned. Though recognized by Christian VII as his child, it is common thought that Louise Auguste was actually the daughter of Johann.

Thanks Countessmeout, I don't know how I forgot Caroline Matilda, A Royal Affair is one of my all-time favourite royal biopics.

Denville 04-20-2019 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeine (Post 2212782)
I'm interested in instances of royal-born women (who aren't Grimaldis) having children out of wedlock. I can think of only 3:

Princess Thyra of Denmark: had a daughter, Maria (b. 1871) by Vilhelm Frimann Marcher

Empress Marie-Louise of France: had 2 children, Albertine (b. 1817) & William Albert (b. 1819) by Count Adam Albert von Neipperg. Both born while she was still married to Napoleon I.

Empress Catherine II of Russia: had a son, Aleksey Grigorievich Bobrinsky (b. 1762) by Count Grigory Orlov.

Any contributions would be greatly appreciated.

I think Marie Louise had 3 but one child died. There is also a pretty strong rumour about Princess Sophia, daughter of George III, that she had a son by Thomas Garth, an equerry....

Yeine 04-20-2019 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denville (Post 2212800)
I think Marie Louise had 3 but one child died.

The 3rd was born in 1822, after her parents' marriage in 1821, & therefore legitimate.

Lee-Z 04-20-2019 02:03 PM

Princess Marianne of the Netherlands had a son with her lover Johannes van Rossum in 1849
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prin...he_Netherlands

Queen Isabella II of Spain's children were rumoured to not all be by her husband
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabella_II_of_Spain

Moonmaiden23 04-20-2019 02:17 PM

A much longer thread would have the title "Royal MEN With Children Out Of Wedlock"...

The numbers are astonishing.:cool:

Yeine 04-20-2019 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 (Post 2212810)
A much longer thread would have the title "Royal MEN With Children Out Of Wedlock"...

The numbers are astonishing.:cool:



:lol: that's precisely why the topic doesn't interest me. It's too commonplace to be fascinating.

Tatiana Maria 04-20-2019 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeine (Post 2212805)
The 3rd was born in 1822, after her parents' marriage in 1821, & therefore legitimate.

As far as I have read, neither of the parents ever acknowledged legally that the three children were theirs, even though their genetic parentage became public knowledge.

In legal terms, I suppose the children listed in this thread were not actually "illegitimate", as either their legal father was the husband of their legal mother or neither of their genetic parents ever acknowledged them legally.

Countessmeout 04-20-2019 03:12 PM

:previous: Or cases where the couples eventually married, and their children were later legitimized by dispensation.

Mary Stewart, Countess of Arran's children are a prime example. Mary and her second husband were married in 1474. But the marriage was not legally recognized. It wasn't until the couple received a papal dispensation two years later they were recognized as married. Their eldest 2 children were born prior. Her eldest 2 were considered bastards until the dispensation, which legitimized them. Her daughter Elizabeth, one of those born prior to the dispensation, was the great-grandmother of Henry, Lord Darnley (her son John was his grandfather). It is through Mary that Darnley's family had their claim to the throne.

Yeine 04-20-2019 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria (Post 2212812)
In legal terms, I suppose the children listed in this thread were not actually "illegitimate", as either their legal father was the husband of their legal mother or neither of their genetic parents ever acknowledged them legally.

I suppose the more appropriate title would've been Royal Women with Children Born Out of Wedlock.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria (Post 2212812)
As far as I have read, neither of the parents ever acknowledged legally that the three children were theirs, even though their genetic parentage became public knowledge.

Really? I was under the impression that all 3 of the children born of the union were "acknowledged". Do you by any chance know by whom Charles Albert was created Prince of Montenuovo?

Denville 04-20-2019 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeine (Post 2212829)
I suppose the more appropriate title would've been Royal Women with Children Born Out of Wedlock.



Really? I was under the impression that all 3 of the children born of the union were "acknowledged". Do you by any chance know by whom Charles Albert was created Prince of Montenuovo?

I don't think they were acknowledged. Neipperg did marry ML but morganatically..

Countessmeout 04-20-2019 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denville (Post 2212830)
I don't think they were acknowledged. Neipperg did marry ML but morganatically..

Yes, the marriage was morganatic. But the question was if their parents ever acknowledged the three children were their children. Not 'hidden children'. The answer is yes, the couple recognized all three children as their own.

Due to the morganatic marriage, they were not recognized as heir to their mother's title. But they were given the title Count/Countess of Montonuevo, an Italian form of their father's title. Their son was elevated to Prince of Montonuevo.

Denville 04-20-2019 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countessmeout (Post 2212834)
Yes, the marriage was morganatic. But the question was if their parents ever acknowledged the three children were their children. Not 'hidden children'. The answer is yes, the couple recognized all three children as their own.

Due to the morganatic marriage, they were not recognized as heir to their mother's title. But they were given the title Count/Countess of Montonuevo, an Italian form of their father's title. Their son was elevated to Prince of Montonuevo.

Yes I know the question was.. but I wasn't sure if ML had ever admitted that she had had children by Neipperg. I assumed the marriage was known but not admitted...

Heavs 04-20-2019 03:58 PM

There are probably quite a few children who were acknowledged by the woman's husband that were not actually his biological children, especially if they were "spares". I read a book once that claimed it was common and often the King knew about it but accepted them so as not to be mocked as a cuckold or have his heir's legitimacy questioned. Not entirely sure if that was the actual case or not.

JR76 04-20-2019 04:09 PM

Duchess Marie of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, who later married Count Georg Jametel and Prince Julius Ernst of Lippe, gave birth to a daughter out of wedlock in 1898

Kataryn 04-20-2019 04:11 PM

Today we have the case of "Xenia Prinzessin und Herzogin von Sachsen" who is named thus because her mother, Iris Prinzessin und Herzogin von Sachsen did not name a father (though I recently read anyone who wanted to know knew who the girl's father is) - so in former times she would have been considered "non existent" but today she has a right to her mother's name and thus is regarded by "normal" people as a real princess.

Tatiana Maria 04-20-2019 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeine (Post 2212829)
Really? I was under the impression that all 3 of the children born of the union were "acknowledged".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countessmeout (Post 2212834)
But the question was if their parents ever acknowledged the three children were their children. Not 'hidden children'. The answer is yes, the couple recognized all three children as their own.

I think I first read the information about the lack of a legal acknowledgement on the website of the Italian region of Emilia-Romagna.

Montenuovo Albertina — Pari opportunità

The article states that Count Neipperg mentioned the children in his will together with his desire for Duchess Maria Luigia to adopt them after his death (which I imagine would be unnecessary if they had already been legally recognized). It further says the Duchess acknowledged their births in a secret document but never legally adopted them.

But if either of you have found a more reliable source stating differently, please share it. :flowers:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeine (Post 2212829)
Do you by any chance know by whom Charles Albert was created Prince of Montenuovo?

I'm sorry I don't know, but my guess is that it was the Austrian emperor.

Lee-Z 04-20-2019 04:15 PM

For more current day:
Archduchess Gabriella of Austria has a daughter (with her fiancee) in 2017, so technically also "out of wedlock" ;)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch...ian_of_Austria


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